1 00:00:02,581 --> 00:00:05,381 [Nathan] I'm Nathan Hill, actor, writer, traveler. 2 00:00:05,421 --> 00:00:08,741 And I'm on a world tour to uncover the sexual culture and traditions 3 00:00:08,781 --> 00:00:11,621 of people in exotic locations all over the globe. 4 00:00:11,661 --> 00:00:14,341 Sex is part of our lives, bodies and minds, 5 00:00:14,381 --> 00:00:16,301 our very existence depends on it. 6 00:00:16,341 --> 00:00:19,341 It is treated and practiced differently in every society. 7 00:00:19,381 --> 00:00:21,061 I'll encounter the extraordinary, 8 00:00:21,101 --> 00:00:24,021 the festive, the tragic, the unseen and the taboo. 9 00:00:24,061 --> 00:00:26,581 It's going to be a fascinating ride. 10 00:00:26,621 --> 00:00:29,221 So join me as I lay bare the universal instinct that we all share 11 00:00:30,261 --> 00:00:31,581 in sex around the world. 12 00:00:31,621 --> 00:00:34,021 [upbeat music] 13 00:00:35,141 --> 00:00:37,181 I've just arrived in Melbourne, 14 00:00:37,221 --> 00:00:39,461 a burgeoning metropolis of over four million people 15 00:00:39,501 --> 00:00:40,821 and the second largest city in Australia. 16 00:00:41,621 --> 00:00:43,381 It's known for its multicultural society, 17 00:00:43,421 --> 00:00:45,261 art precincts, sporting communities, 18 00:00:45,301 --> 00:00:47,901 and exceptional coffee culture, which I hope to sample. 19 00:00:47,941 --> 00:00:49,581 I'm told the people here are laid-back 20 00:00:49,621 --> 00:00:52,871 in their attitude towards life, work, and their attitude to sex. 21 00:00:52,896 --> 00:00:55,901 In fact, the locals here refer to this island continent 22 00:00:55,941 --> 00:00:58,541 as a lucky country because of the great weather, 23 00:00:58,581 --> 00:01:01,381 beautiful beaches, accessible health care, 24 00:01:01,421 --> 00:01:03,101 and their opportunities for education. 25 00:01:03,141 --> 00:01:04,861 I'm here to explore how the laid-back attitude 26 00:01:04,901 --> 00:01:06,741 extends towards sexual behavior, 27 00:01:06,781 --> 00:01:08,501 and how the abundance of erotic stores, 28 00:01:08,541 --> 00:01:11,621 strip clubs, and prostitution has affected this society. 29 00:01:11,661 --> 00:01:13,141 I'm going to talk with sex workers, 30 00:01:13,181 --> 00:01:15,621 swingers, a brothel madam, a male escort, 31 00:01:15,661 --> 00:01:18,541 bondage dominatrix, and even local teenagers 32 00:01:18,581 --> 00:01:20,781 to unearth all of Melbourne's sexual culture. 33 00:01:20,821 --> 00:01:24,381 And I'm going to start here at the inner city suburb of Richmond, 34 00:01:24,421 --> 00:01:26,381 the Passion Fruit Sensuality Shop. 35 00:01:26,421 --> 00:01:28,701 It's part of a growing trend, a new type of sex store 36 00:01:28,741 --> 00:01:32,141 that doesn't hide in a dark alley behind black windows. 37 00:01:32,181 --> 00:01:33,861 In fact, it's right smack bang in the middle of 38 00:01:33,901 --> 00:01:35,821 one of the city's most popular fashion strips. 39 00:01:35,861 --> 00:01:37,501 And sure, it's about sex, 40 00:01:37,541 --> 00:01:39,581 but it doesn't run from it and embraces it. 41 00:01:39,621 --> 00:01:42,741 [Nathan] The manager, Michelle has agreed to show me around. 42 00:01:42,781 --> 00:01:44,821 So, the women that come in are probably women 43 00:01:44,861 --> 00:01:47,861 that haven't been into sex shops much before, 44 00:01:47,901 --> 00:01:50,061 and would refuse to go into a sex shop. 45 00:01:50,101 --> 00:01:51,821 And women need to feel comfortable, 46 00:01:51,861 --> 00:01:54,381 they need to, you know, have a nice sort of, 47 00:01:54,421 --> 00:01:56,581 a nice shop to browse in and have a look at, 48 00:01:56,621 --> 00:01:59,381 and maybe not something that's just about sex, 49 00:01:59,421 --> 00:02:02,141 that's something that really involves, you know, 50 00:02:02,181 --> 00:02:03,941 everything to do with sex, 51 00:02:03,981 --> 00:02:06,421 and that sort of, to me, is more sensual, sort of. 52 00:02:06,461 --> 00:02:08,061 - So, less intimidating... - Yeah. 53 00:02:08,101 --> 00:02:10,461 As far as your sort of classic sex shop goes. 54 00:02:10,501 --> 00:02:12,421 That's part of the philosophy as well, 55 00:02:12,461 --> 00:02:15,261 where sex is more than just the act, 56 00:02:15,301 --> 00:02:19,301 it's the anticipation, it's the, you know, 57 00:02:19,341 --> 00:02:21,741 the mind, humor, everything like that. 58 00:02:21,781 --> 00:02:24,381 And sensuality, soft things, 59 00:02:24,421 --> 00:02:25,701 and lingerie, that kind of thing. 60 00:02:25,741 --> 00:02:27,421 And what have you got out the back? 61 00:02:27,461 --> 00:02:29,301 And then we ask people to come and have a look 62 00:02:29,341 --> 00:02:32,261 in our back room, so we part the little curtain here. 63 00:02:32,301 --> 00:02:33,901 Part of the philosophy too, 64 00:02:33,941 --> 00:02:37,381 was that women should be able to look and feel 65 00:02:37,421 --> 00:02:41,181 before they buy. It's one of the most personal products they'll ever buy. 66 00:02:41,221 --> 00:02:44,061 Can you tell us a little bit in more detail how these work? 67 00:02:44,101 --> 00:02:46,701 So I notice you've got... they call that the rabbit, don't they? 68 00:02:46,741 --> 00:02:49,261 Yeah, these are called the rabbit vibrators. 69 00:02:49,301 --> 00:02:53,861 For example, they have a vibrating clitoral stimulator 70 00:02:53,901 --> 00:02:56,661 and a rotating internal shaft. 71 00:02:56,701 --> 00:02:58,541 So you can use the shaft internally 72 00:02:58,581 --> 00:03:01,301 and that generally rotates with beads inside 73 00:03:01,341 --> 00:03:03,101 for a little bit of extra stimulation, 74 00:03:03,141 --> 00:03:06,701 and then you get a little, um, clitoral vibrator here. 75 00:03:06,741 --> 00:03:09,101 So you're getting internal penetration 76 00:03:09,141 --> 00:03:12,181 and clitoral external stimulation at the same time. 77 00:03:12,221 --> 00:03:14,021 [Nathan laughs] - So, that's pretty much everything. 78 00:03:14,061 --> 00:03:17,581 And this is probably, really where the whole industry 79 00:03:17,621 --> 00:03:20,141 is going, towards more luxury toys made 80 00:03:20,181 --> 00:03:21,981 by really good designers. 81 00:03:22,021 --> 00:03:23,501 These are all rechargeable as well, 82 00:03:23,541 --> 00:03:25,101 so there's no need for batteries anymore, 83 00:03:25,141 --> 00:03:26,901 you can just charge them up like your phone. 84 00:03:26,941 --> 00:03:29,741 It's beautifully made, you know, it looks gorgeous, 85 00:03:29,781 --> 00:03:31,621 that really makes a big difference to women, 86 00:03:31,661 --> 00:03:33,021 - the look of it. - Okay. 87 00:03:33,061 --> 00:03:34,621 And something like this for example, 88 00:03:34,661 --> 00:03:36,221 which is just a clitoral stimulator. 89 00:03:36,261 --> 00:03:38,381 It just looks so lovely, 90 00:03:38,421 --> 00:03:40,741 looks like a little massage stone or something, 91 00:03:40,781 --> 00:03:42,781 just hold it in your palm 92 00:03:42,821 --> 00:03:44,701 and you can use it to, um... 93 00:03:45,581 --> 00:03:46,981 And men like these as well. 94 00:03:47,021 --> 00:03:49,101 - Right. - Yeah, but just to use 95 00:03:49,141 --> 00:03:51,021 while you're having sex, over the clitoris. 96 00:03:51,061 --> 00:03:52,781 Yeah, it's fantastic, quite beautiful, 97 00:03:52,821 --> 00:03:55,101 - as well as effective. - [both laughing] 98 00:03:55,141 --> 00:03:56,821 [Nathan] These toys were fun, 99 00:03:56,861 --> 00:03:58,421 but I really wanted to find out from Michelle 100 00:03:58,461 --> 00:04:00,021 what she thought the benefits of the passion 101 00:04:00,061 --> 00:04:01,861 for its store were for Melbourne. 102 00:04:01,901 --> 00:04:03,821 Well, there's the obvious physical, 103 00:04:03,861 --> 00:04:05,621 emotional, spiritual, benefits, 104 00:04:05,661 --> 00:04:08,781 but I just think, um, a healthy sex life 105 00:04:08,821 --> 00:04:11,541 and growing up with a healthy attitude towards sex 106 00:04:11,581 --> 00:04:14,621 just probably gives you a bit more respect 107 00:04:14,661 --> 00:04:16,181 for yourself and for your partner. 108 00:04:16,221 --> 00:04:18,661 And that's going to lead to better decisions 109 00:04:18,701 --> 00:04:21,261 and a better person that you'll be. 110 00:04:21,301 --> 00:04:22,781 And that sort of leads to a better, 111 00:04:22,821 --> 00:04:24,541 more nourishing society, I guess. 112 00:04:24,581 --> 00:04:26,581 [Nathan] Indeed, sex stores have now entered 113 00:04:26,621 --> 00:04:28,301 the mainstream in Melbourne. 114 00:04:28,341 --> 00:04:31,301 The leading example of this mainstreaming of sex shops 115 00:04:31,341 --> 00:04:34,661 is the blossoming 12 store empire known as Sexyland. 116 00:04:34,701 --> 00:04:37,461 In fact, Sexyland describes itself as a department store 117 00:04:37,501 --> 00:04:38,701 where one would normally go in and buy 118 00:04:38,741 --> 00:04:40,741 furniture or kitchen goods, 119 00:04:40,781 --> 00:04:43,221 but I'm sure there's nothing as boring as that in there. 120 00:04:44,261 --> 00:04:45,701 - Nice to meet you. - Good to see you. 121 00:04:45,741 --> 00:04:47,341 - Thanks having us. - Not a problem at all. 122 00:04:47,381 --> 00:04:49,821 - Can you give us a tour? - Certainly, come through. 123 00:04:49,861 --> 00:04:52,541 Basically, what it's based on, it's based on 124 00:04:52,581 --> 00:04:56,381 very open, and friendly environment, and fun environment. 125 00:04:56,421 --> 00:04:59,301 So, we're talking about, um, first-timers, 126 00:04:59,341 --> 00:05:01,981 and starting out using products in the store. 127 00:05:02,021 --> 00:05:04,221 You said that the oils were a good starting point. 128 00:05:04,261 --> 00:05:06,901 That's right, oils and body chocolates as well. 129 00:05:06,941 --> 00:05:08,781 So you can... That's chocolate paste, 130 00:05:08,821 --> 00:05:11,901 - you can actually lick off. - Yeah, either sauce, 131 00:05:11,941 --> 00:05:13,621 or this one, which has a little brush, 132 00:05:13,661 --> 00:05:16,301 and you actually paint it on and then eat it off. 133 00:05:16,341 --> 00:05:18,501 - Cool. - [both laughing] 134 00:05:18,541 --> 00:05:19,741 Okay, so new products, 135 00:05:19,781 --> 00:05:21,981 we have the Tickler Treat, 136 00:05:22,021 --> 00:05:23,861 can you go into a bit of detail? 137 00:05:23,901 --> 00:05:26,701 Basically this is a range of dongs and anal toys, 138 00:05:26,741 --> 00:05:29,421 um, they're made out, um, of silicon. 139 00:05:29,461 --> 00:05:31,741 Basically what that means is that the toy's non-porous 140 00:05:31,781 --> 00:05:33,741 and it's very safe for your body. 141 00:05:33,781 --> 00:05:35,981 So just looking at the star performer series here. 142 00:05:36,021 --> 00:05:37,301 - Yeah. - Um. 143 00:05:37,341 --> 00:05:39,301 Women actually use these? 144 00:05:39,341 --> 00:05:41,661 Well, we don't actually ask these things, 145 00:05:41,701 --> 00:05:43,341 what they do with them once they buy them. 146 00:05:43,381 --> 00:05:45,221 Right, okay, so these have intrigued me. 147 00:05:45,261 --> 00:05:48,621 You've got nearly $600 for Bree Olsen's 148 00:05:48,661 --> 00:05:51,741 Cyber Skin Doggy-style Vibrating Pussy and Ass. 149 00:05:51,781 --> 00:05:53,821 - That's right, that's right. - Interesting, 150 00:05:53,861 --> 00:05:56,501 so, we're talking... what are these made out of, are they latex? 151 00:05:56,541 --> 00:05:58,301 Uh, no, they're actually made out of cyber skin, 152 00:05:58,341 --> 00:06:00,061 - exactly what you said. - Right. 153 00:06:00,101 --> 00:06:02,701 And it's a really, really, uh, nice feeling material. 154 00:06:02,741 --> 00:06:04,982 It feels as close to human skin as possible. 155 00:06:04,982 --> 00:06:05,791 My goodness. 156 00:06:05,816 --> 00:06:07,901 And that one's actually been molded off Bree Olson 157 00:06:07,941 --> 00:06:09,421 who's an adult star. 158 00:06:09,461 --> 00:06:11,141 As far as customer demographics go, 159 00:06:11,181 --> 00:06:12,541 is it more men than women? 160 00:06:12,581 --> 00:06:15,021 Really with the age group, 161 00:06:15,061 --> 00:06:19,141 anything from young adults right up to elderly. 162 00:06:19,181 --> 00:06:20,741 - Okay, really, wow! - I had a couple who was 163 00:06:20,781 --> 00:06:22,421 - over 70, so I would say... - Okay. 164 00:06:22,461 --> 00:06:24,661 That's elderly, yeah, and everything in between. 165 00:06:24,701 --> 00:06:27,141 Given that the business is booming, um, 166 00:06:27,181 --> 00:06:29,941 in your opinion does, does Melbourne have a 167 00:06:29,981 --> 00:06:33,861 more liberal or conservative idea to the industry? 168 00:06:33,901 --> 00:06:37,141 Yeah, I think everyone is really welcoming, 169 00:06:37,181 --> 00:06:38,901 um, even when I say where I work, 170 00:06:38,941 --> 00:06:40,621 people are really happy to know, 171 00:06:40,661 --> 00:06:42,901 and they're really intrigued, and they want to know. 172 00:06:42,941 --> 00:06:44,941 And most people are happy to come into the store. 173 00:06:44,981 --> 00:06:46,941 - This is much more like a supermarket. - Correct. 174 00:06:46,981 --> 00:06:48,541 - It's white light... - This is quite a bit different. 175 00:06:48,581 --> 00:06:50,621 - Everyone is open about it. - That's right. 176 00:06:50,661 --> 00:06:52,741 Are customers like that? They come and they're very open? 177 00:06:52,781 --> 00:06:55,021 Absolutely. They're very open about it and they're comfortable 178 00:06:55,061 --> 00:06:56,741 because it is exactly what you explained, 179 00:06:56,781 --> 00:06:58,621 that it is bright and it's, 180 00:06:58,661 --> 00:07:00,981 um, well, it's not dark and dingy, 181 00:07:01,021 --> 00:07:03,461 and it's not blacked-out windows. I mean, we have 182 00:07:03,501 --> 00:07:05,821 latest lingerie fashion in our windows. 183 00:07:05,861 --> 00:07:08,541 No newspapers blacking out the windows, no. 184 00:07:08,581 --> 00:07:11,701 There's... all these items are basically creative, 185 00:07:11,741 --> 00:07:14,781 and they're here to help people in their relation... 186 00:07:14,821 --> 00:07:19,101 Relationships are really hard to maintain, so any little bit helps. 187 00:07:19,141 --> 00:07:21,541 So, what do you think the benefits are of having a Sexyland 188 00:07:21,581 --> 00:07:23,341 where people can come in and buy these products? 189 00:07:23,381 --> 00:07:24,701 What are long-term benefits 190 00:07:24,741 --> 00:07:25,621 of having an establishment like this? 191 00:07:25,661 --> 00:07:27,141 The more happy people, 192 00:07:27,181 --> 00:07:30,261 probably the better for the community. 193 00:07:30,301 --> 00:07:34,061 I'll likely sell mostly things that would make people happy, 194 00:07:34,101 --> 00:07:37,421 whether they're on their own or whether they're as a couple. 195 00:07:38,381 --> 00:07:41,541 I think, probably the more happy people the better. [Chuckles] 196 00:07:41,581 --> 00:07:44,261 So, if sex really is all around, becoming more prevalent, 197 00:07:44,301 --> 00:07:45,861 how do Melburnians feel about it? 198 00:07:45,901 --> 00:07:47,741 What is the social impact? 199 00:07:47,781 --> 00:07:49,021 I'm here to meet with local writer 200 00:07:49,061 --> 00:07:50,781 and sex expert, Claire Halliday. 201 00:07:50,821 --> 00:07:52,941 Hopefully she can shed some light on the subject. 202 00:07:52,981 --> 00:07:56,701 I think we're kind of secretly, sexually conservative, 203 00:07:56,741 --> 00:07:59,741 and we're sort of forced to live in a society that, um, 204 00:07:59,781 --> 00:08:01,701 wants us to believe that we're sexually liberal. 205 00:08:01,741 --> 00:08:03,581 So we do have this plethora of, you know, 206 00:08:03,621 --> 00:08:06,861 sex stores, and brothels, and things like that, 207 00:08:06,901 --> 00:08:08,821 but, you know, try asking somebody 208 00:08:08,861 --> 00:08:10,701 if they've been to one, or, you know, 209 00:08:10,741 --> 00:08:12,381 and get an honest answer. 210 00:08:12,421 --> 00:08:14,901 They might be there, but nobody wants to admit 211 00:08:14,941 --> 00:08:17,061 that they, you know, utilize the services. 212 00:08:17,101 --> 00:08:20,141 So in that way, we're sexually conservative, I guess, 213 00:08:20,181 --> 00:08:21,541 obviously people are using them. 214 00:08:21,581 --> 00:08:23,501 They wouldn't be on every corner 215 00:08:23,541 --> 00:08:26,101 - if they weren't making profits. - Sure. 216 00:08:26,141 --> 00:08:29,101 But I think, you know, nobody's really going to own up to, 217 00:08:29,141 --> 00:08:30,501 you know, visiting a brothel. 218 00:08:30,541 --> 00:08:33,461 Are you shocked at the, uh, information 219 00:08:33,501 --> 00:08:35,941 that's so available to your own kids? 220 00:08:35,981 --> 00:08:37,861 I'm not particularly shocked by anything anymore, 221 00:08:37,901 --> 00:08:39,581 because I've spent a lot of years 222 00:08:39,621 --> 00:08:41,621 researching different aspects of the sex industry, 223 00:08:41,661 --> 00:08:44,301 and I've seen and heard all kinds of things 224 00:08:44,341 --> 00:08:46,661 that make me kind of unshockable at the moment. 225 00:08:46,701 --> 00:08:48,141 But in terms of my own children, 226 00:08:48,181 --> 00:08:50,221 I think there is a lot of information out there 227 00:08:50,261 --> 00:08:53,501 that, um, I'm disappointed in, that, you know, 228 00:08:53,541 --> 00:08:56,381 like I said, the articles in "Girlfriend," 229 00:08:56,421 --> 00:08:58,061 teaching you how to have safe anal sex. 230 00:08:58,101 --> 00:09:01,301 I don't want my daughter to read that when she's 13. 231 00:09:01,341 --> 00:09:03,341 So, they're making it more acceptable 232 00:09:03,381 --> 00:09:05,221 or look like it should be the norm. 233 00:09:05,261 --> 00:09:07,901 Yeah, and obviously that's been sold to them, 234 00:09:07,941 --> 00:09:11,461 you know, on a societal, on a broader societal level, 235 00:09:11,501 --> 00:09:13,701 I guess, from, you know, the stream 236 00:09:13,741 --> 00:09:15,941 of sexualized material that is just in your face, 237 00:09:15,981 --> 00:09:17,621 especially in the last ten years. 238 00:09:17,661 --> 00:09:20,981 We're giving kids today so much sexualized material, 239 00:09:21,021 --> 00:09:23,101 yet sex education in schools is lacking, 240 00:09:23,141 --> 00:09:25,501 so we're throwing all this sexualized material at them, 241 00:09:25,541 --> 00:09:26,861 we're not giving them the context 242 00:09:26,901 --> 00:09:28,861 to properly understand it. 243 00:09:28,901 --> 00:09:31,061 And while we're teaching them the nuts and bolts of the mechanics 244 00:09:31,101 --> 00:09:33,701 of what goes where, I don't think we're teaching them 245 00:09:33,741 --> 00:09:37,981 the emotional, um, aspects and, you know, 246 00:09:38,021 --> 00:09:42,221 how to make good choices, and respect, and things like that. 247 00:09:42,261 --> 00:09:44,461 So, Claire, just on a final note, 248 00:09:44,501 --> 00:09:46,261 what do you hope your book, 249 00:09:46,301 --> 00:09:48,421 "Do You Want Sex With That?" um, will achieve? 250 00:09:48,461 --> 00:09:51,541 So I'm hoping that anybody reading the book, 251 00:09:51,581 --> 00:09:53,221 it might just make them think more, 252 00:09:53,261 --> 00:09:55,501 it might just make them look at what's going on, 253 00:09:55,541 --> 00:09:58,021 you know, around us as a society, 254 00:09:58,061 --> 00:10:00,221 and question whether they think it's gone too far. 255 00:10:00,261 --> 00:10:02,941 And if they do think that then, you know, what do we do next? 256 00:10:02,981 --> 00:10:05,461 I just want people to look more closely 257 00:10:05,501 --> 00:10:06,981 at what we're being fed, 258 00:10:07,021 --> 00:10:09,261 and maybe question if it's the right thing, 259 00:10:09,301 --> 00:10:10,941 and what we can do about it. 260 00:10:10,981 --> 00:10:12,581 [Nathan] Claire painted a picture of Melbourne 261 00:10:12,621 --> 00:10:15,581 as very confused about its sexual identity. 262 00:10:15,621 --> 00:10:18,061 But in a city that considers itself sophisticated, 263 00:10:18,101 --> 00:10:20,581 cosmopolitan, and intellectual, is it compatible? 264 00:10:20,621 --> 00:10:23,021 But here on King Street in the middle of the CBD, 265 00:10:23,061 --> 00:10:24,301 there are mega strip clubs that cater 266 00:10:24,341 --> 00:10:26,261 to thousands of men every night, 267 00:10:26,301 --> 00:10:30,501 with names like Showgirls Bar 20, Club X, Crazyhorse, 268 00:10:30,541 --> 00:10:32,981 even the international franchise, Spearmint Rhino. 269 00:10:33,021 --> 00:10:35,981 I'm told it's built on a long entrenched party culture 270 00:10:36,021 --> 00:10:39,181 of after works drinks and pre-wedding bucks nights. 271 00:10:39,221 --> 00:10:41,901 [Nathan] Stripper, or exotic dancer if you prefer, Honey, 272 00:10:41,941 --> 00:10:43,381 has agreed to talk with me. 273 00:10:43,421 --> 00:10:45,541 [Nathan] Why did you choose this as a job 274 00:10:45,581 --> 00:10:47,781 compared to, you know, other jobs? 275 00:10:47,821 --> 00:10:50,021 Well, sort of the pay, 276 00:10:50,061 --> 00:10:53,021 because I'm living on my own with my younger brother, 277 00:10:53,061 --> 00:10:54,981 and I have to raise him and everything. 278 00:10:55,021 --> 00:10:57,941 So, I just thought I'd start 279 00:10:57,981 --> 00:10:59,701 doing this stripper job, it's good money. 280 00:10:59,741 --> 00:11:01,061 How did you feel when you did 281 00:11:01,101 --> 00:11:02,901 your first dance live on stage? 282 00:11:02,941 --> 00:11:05,501 Well, I felt a lot of butterflies, 283 00:11:05,541 --> 00:11:08,141 and I'm like, "Oh, my God, what am I doing up here?" 284 00:11:08,181 --> 00:11:12,421 "How am I going to do this?" Like, you know, you've got so many people watching you. 285 00:11:12,461 --> 00:11:14,741 But I just said, "Okay, I got to be confident," 286 00:11:14,781 --> 00:11:16,861 and one of the other strippers that was teaching me said, 287 00:11:16,901 --> 00:11:20,381 "Just be confident, do the job, and you'll get through it." So, yeah. 288 00:11:20,421 --> 00:11:22,661 Do you make a lot of money in this profession? 289 00:11:22,701 --> 00:11:24,501 Like, at the end of the week, do you go, "Hmm"? 290 00:11:24,541 --> 00:11:26,501 Are you satisfied with the cash, with cash pot? 291 00:11:26,541 --> 00:11:29,181 Yeah, yeah, I am satisfied with the cash that I'm getting, 292 00:11:29,221 --> 00:11:31,501 um, but it does go, it's not like... 293 00:11:31,541 --> 00:11:33,861 Everyone's like, "Oh, you're a stripper, you're rich." 294 00:11:33,901 --> 00:11:36,221 And it's like, "But it does go on things," 295 00:11:36,261 --> 00:11:39,061 do you know what I mean? Like, you've got to buy your make ups, 296 00:11:39,101 --> 00:11:42,501 and you got to cut off the products that you need for yourself. 297 00:11:42,541 --> 00:11:44,821 Do your family and friends, and I bet this, I mean, obviously, 298 00:11:44,861 --> 00:11:47,461 - your younger brother, he knows what you do? - Yeah, my younger brother does. 299 00:11:47,501 --> 00:11:49,901 Do your friends know, or do you have friends that have got no idea? 300 00:11:49,941 --> 00:11:51,661 [Honey] I've got a few friends that know and a few 301 00:11:51,701 --> 00:11:53,821 friends that have no idea and I won't tell them. 302 00:11:53,861 --> 00:11:56,021 I know which ones will stick by me, 303 00:11:56,061 --> 00:11:57,981 and which ones understand, and which ones don't. 304 00:11:58,021 --> 00:12:00,221 So the ones that do understand that, I'll tell. 305 00:12:00,261 --> 00:12:02,781 So there is a stigma then, because there's some people you won't tell 306 00:12:02,821 --> 00:12:04,021 because you're scared of their reaction? 307 00:12:04,061 --> 00:12:05,301 - [Honey] Exactly, yeah. - Okay. 308 00:12:05,341 --> 00:12:06,981 And my parents don't know either, so. 309 00:12:07,021 --> 00:12:08,061 - They don't? - No. 310 00:12:08,101 --> 00:12:09,341 How do you find the customers, 311 00:12:09,381 --> 00:12:11,181 the males, how do they treat you? 312 00:12:11,221 --> 00:12:13,861 Um, you get a lot of... I've had a lot of respect for, like, 313 00:12:13,901 --> 00:12:17,101 guys that haven't tried to do anything to me, or anything, or disrespect me, 314 00:12:17,141 --> 00:12:19,181 but you get, sometimes you get sleazes in there 315 00:12:19,221 --> 00:12:20,901 trying to take photos of you. 316 00:12:20,941 --> 00:12:22,541 - Oh, yeah? - So that's the part 317 00:12:22,581 --> 00:12:24,381 - where it's... - On their mobile phones, 318 00:12:24,421 --> 00:12:26,101 and trying to shoot a video or something? 319 00:12:26,141 --> 00:12:28,901 - Yeah. - Do the customers proposition you for sex 320 00:12:28,941 --> 00:12:31,141 after a show or during the night? 321 00:12:31,181 --> 00:12:33,141 Do you get guys coming on to you? 322 00:12:33,181 --> 00:12:34,741 Yeah, yeah, I've had a few guys that ask, 323 00:12:34,781 --> 00:12:36,181 "Do you want to come hang with me? 324 00:12:36,221 --> 00:12:37,541 "A thousand dollars, two thousand," like, 325 00:12:37,581 --> 00:12:38,981 you know, your money's not worth it, 326 00:12:39,021 --> 00:12:40,821 it's only the dance, do you know what I mean? 327 00:12:40,861 --> 00:12:44,061 It's like, that's as far as I'll go, a dance, so. 328 00:12:44,101 --> 00:12:45,421 So you don't cross the line there? 329 00:12:45,461 --> 00:12:46,821 No, [chuckles] no way. 330 00:12:46,861 --> 00:12:49,261 What about your long-term career prospects? 331 00:12:49,301 --> 00:12:51,021 Like, do you want to stay here until finish uni? 332 00:12:51,061 --> 00:12:52,501 Is this the sort of job you'll keep going? 333 00:12:52,541 --> 00:12:54,061 Yes, I want to keep going, 334 00:12:54,101 --> 00:12:56,741 so I want to keep, like, doing this, 335 00:12:56,781 --> 00:12:59,141 but I want to pay, like, help it pay off 336 00:12:59,181 --> 00:13:00,941 my studies and everything. 337 00:13:00,981 --> 00:13:02,981 [Nathan] Honey is a dancer at Maxine's, 338 00:13:03,021 --> 00:13:04,461 an establishment that belongs to 339 00:13:04,501 --> 00:13:06,181 the queen of Melbourne's adult industry 340 00:13:06,221 --> 00:13:09,381 and a high-profile social identity, Maxine Fensom. 341 00:13:10,461 --> 00:13:14,181 In a business dominated by men, Maxine bucks the trend. 342 00:13:14,221 --> 00:13:16,301 Not only is she the city's biggest provider 343 00:13:16,341 --> 00:13:18,501 of private strip services and dancers, 344 00:13:18,541 --> 00:13:22,261 she also runs five erotic websites, an escort service, 345 00:13:22,301 --> 00:13:24,581 started the Australian adult industry awards, 346 00:13:24,621 --> 00:13:27,141 and even campaigned for Parliament. 347 00:13:27,181 --> 00:13:28,781 But perhaps she'd like me to introduce her 348 00:13:28,821 --> 00:13:31,501 in the words she uses to describe herself, 349 00:13:31,541 --> 00:13:33,541 the Queen of pussy. 350 00:13:33,581 --> 00:13:35,021 [Nathan] Maxine you have a fascinating story, 351 00:13:35,061 --> 00:13:36,741 please share with us some of your journey. 352 00:13:36,781 --> 00:13:38,861 Well, basically, I fell into this business, 353 00:13:38,901 --> 00:13:40,461 and if anyone said that I was going to work 354 00:13:40,501 --> 00:13:42,021 in this sort of industry I would have said, 355 00:13:42,061 --> 00:13:44,781 "No, I don't think so." So, I saw an ad in the... 356 00:13:44,821 --> 00:13:47,141 One of the papers and they wanted a topless waitress, 357 00:13:47,181 --> 00:13:49,541 and I, "Umm'd" and, "Ah'd" for about three weeks. 358 00:13:49,581 --> 00:13:52,861 I eventually plucked up the courage and went for an interview. 359 00:13:52,901 --> 00:13:55,661 I had to show this dirty old man my boobs, 360 00:13:55,701 --> 00:13:58,661 and of course I got the job, stayed there a week. 361 00:13:58,701 --> 00:14:01,341 And he was doing like, these like, these lunches, 362 00:14:01,381 --> 00:14:05,261 and I thought, "God, I could do that." And I could do it, you know, kind of nicer. 363 00:14:05,301 --> 00:14:07,941 And I knew lots of men, so that's how Maxine started. 364 00:14:07,981 --> 00:14:10,221 Then I started, like, a stripping agency. 365 00:14:10,261 --> 00:14:12,101 And then prostitution became legal, 366 00:14:12,141 --> 00:14:13,981 so then I applied for a license. 367 00:14:14,021 --> 00:14:17,061 I was one of the first people to get an escort agency license, 368 00:14:17,101 --> 00:14:18,901 so then I did that, 369 00:14:18,941 --> 00:14:21,061 and then I started doing lots of events as well, 370 00:14:21,101 --> 00:14:26,501 like Dildorama, Miss Nude, Miss Dream Girl, Miss Erotica. 371 00:14:26,541 --> 00:14:28,541 I founded the Adult Industry Awards 372 00:14:28,581 --> 00:14:30,141 which is 11 years strong. 373 00:14:30,181 --> 00:14:31,581 I've been here for three and a half years, 374 00:14:31,621 --> 00:14:33,421 great girls, good staff, good management, 375 00:14:33,461 --> 00:14:35,141 all female management too, I might add. 376 00:14:35,181 --> 00:14:38,021 And to be honest, that's why I like it, um. 377 00:14:38,061 --> 00:14:39,941 But it's, it's a family atmosphere, 378 00:14:39,981 --> 00:14:42,421 it's a very friendly environment here. 379 00:14:42,461 --> 00:14:44,981 What state is the adult industry 380 00:14:45,021 --> 00:14:46,501 in, in Melbourne, do you think? 381 00:14:46,541 --> 00:14:48,581 Well, I think we're all sort of struggling 382 00:14:48,621 --> 00:14:49,941 just to keep our head above water, 383 00:14:49,981 --> 00:14:51,141 just on a political level. 384 00:14:51,181 --> 00:14:52,301 The police are fairly, 385 00:14:52,341 --> 00:14:53,621 have been fairly heavy-handed 386 00:14:53,661 --> 00:14:55,461 with the adult industry. 387 00:14:55,501 --> 00:14:57,541 And I think that's the struggle for all of us 388 00:14:57,581 --> 00:14:59,021 on a day-to-day basis, 389 00:14:59,061 --> 00:15:01,621 and just the red tape and the bureaucracy 390 00:15:01,661 --> 00:15:04,061 of running at this sort of legal business. 391 00:15:04,101 --> 00:15:07,421 People have no understanding, particularly politicians about 392 00:15:07,461 --> 00:15:09,941 how this business is, they're afraid, 393 00:15:09,981 --> 00:15:13,141 they don't want to know about it, so they kind of penalize us. 394 00:15:13,181 --> 00:15:16,621 You know, it's hard when, you know, we're open-minded people 395 00:15:16,661 --> 00:15:19,621 and we just want to run our business, and then you've got people who don't understand 396 00:15:19,661 --> 00:15:21,221 our business, and all they want to do 397 00:15:21,261 --> 00:15:23,221 is, um, basically close it down. 398 00:15:23,261 --> 00:15:25,061 So as far as the adult industry is concerned, 399 00:15:25,101 --> 00:15:26,221 do you believe it has a positive 400 00:15:26,261 --> 00:15:27,781 or negative effect on society? 401 00:15:27,821 --> 00:15:30,861 I think, um, myself it's positive. 402 00:15:30,901 --> 00:15:32,101 Well, you know, it's employment, 403 00:15:32,141 --> 00:15:34,461 it's a legally run business, 404 00:15:34,501 --> 00:15:37,381 uh, it's run by a woman as far as my business. 405 00:15:37,421 --> 00:15:39,261 And I think, you know, girls can come in here 406 00:15:39,301 --> 00:15:41,421 and make a lot of money as long as they're focused, 407 00:15:41,461 --> 00:15:43,101 and, you know, give yourself five years, 408 00:15:43,141 --> 00:15:44,741 and make some money and buy, you know, 409 00:15:44,781 --> 00:15:47,821 a portfolio of houses and set yourself up. 410 00:15:47,861 --> 00:15:50,021 [upbeat music] 411 00:16:01,181 --> 00:16:02,701 You only have to spend a night in Melbourne 412 00:16:02,741 --> 00:16:05,101 to realize it as an energetic party scene. 413 00:16:05,141 --> 00:16:07,381 You see, alcohol is available from age 18. 414 00:16:07,421 --> 00:16:09,781 And every weekend, teenagers and 20-somethings 415 00:16:09,821 --> 00:16:12,781 pour into the city to drink and dance the night away. 416 00:16:12,821 --> 00:16:14,781 Some of them even end up at recovery parties, 417 00:16:14,821 --> 00:16:17,701 which might seem like a contradiction, but I'm assured it's not. 418 00:16:17,741 --> 00:16:20,661 But you see Melbourne is also a maze of lane-ways, 419 00:16:20,701 --> 00:16:22,461 and alleys, and sometimes it's hard 420 00:16:22,501 --> 00:16:24,181 to find the right club to go to 421 00:16:24,221 --> 00:16:25,981 unless you're in the know. 422 00:16:26,021 --> 00:16:28,261 But luckily tonight for us, we're in the know 423 00:16:28,301 --> 00:16:30,901 and we're heading off to trendy Baroque House. 424 00:16:32,101 --> 00:16:33,941 [club music] 425 00:16:46,741 --> 00:16:48,861 What's a normal Saturday night like here 426 00:16:48,901 --> 00:16:52,821 as far as, um, meeting someone's concerned, or picking up? 427 00:16:52,861 --> 00:16:54,421 - Picking up? - [laughing] 428 00:16:54,461 --> 00:16:56,861 I don't know, there's a lot to choose from here. 429 00:16:56,901 --> 00:16:58,581 There's a lot more girls though, isn't it, than guys? 430 00:16:58,621 --> 00:17:00,221 - At the moment, yes, yeah. - Yeah. 431 00:17:00,261 --> 00:17:02,381 Which is probably a good thing, you know. 432 00:17:02,421 --> 00:17:05,141 So, what time does this place go till? 433 00:17:05,181 --> 00:17:07,901 I don't know, maybe, like four, four-thirty. 434 00:17:07,941 --> 00:17:09,181 And you're here every Saturday? 435 00:17:09,221 --> 00:17:10,341 - Yeah. - Yeah. 436 00:17:10,381 --> 00:17:11,661 Yeah, awesome! 437 00:17:11,701 --> 00:17:13,381 How do you find the sexual culture 438 00:17:13,421 --> 00:17:14,941 in Melbourne as a whole? 439 00:17:15,861 --> 00:17:17,741 I would... Melbourne's very liberated. 440 00:17:17,781 --> 00:17:21,141 And is picking up the main thing here at Baroque House? 441 00:17:21,181 --> 00:17:24,741 Uh, you would think so, if you look around tonight, 442 00:17:24,781 --> 00:17:26,501 there's plenty of women here for the men. 443 00:17:26,541 --> 00:17:29,541 And, uh, I think 90% of people, what they come out for 444 00:17:29,581 --> 00:17:31,301 is to pick up ladies, 445 00:17:31,341 --> 00:17:32,821 and they got ladies to pick up the guys, so. 446 00:17:32,861 --> 00:17:34,461 To have more sex and have more fun, 447 00:17:34,501 --> 00:17:37,021 that's what I would say, that's all! [Laughs] 448 00:17:37,061 --> 00:17:40,421 [club music] 449 00:17:52,101 --> 00:17:53,221 - How you going? - Hi! 450 00:17:53,261 --> 00:17:54,781 - What's your name? - Paula. 451 00:17:54,821 --> 00:17:56,101 - Paula? - Yeah. 452 00:17:56,141 --> 00:17:57,341 - How are you? - Good, how are you? 453 00:17:57,381 --> 00:17:58,461 - I'm great. - What's your name? 454 00:17:58,501 --> 00:17:59,581 My name's Nathan. 455 00:17:59,621 --> 00:18:00,901 Can you tell me what you think 456 00:18:00,941 --> 00:18:02,421 about sexual culture in Melbourne? 457 00:18:02,461 --> 00:18:07,341 I think these days people are sluts, like real bad. 458 00:18:07,381 --> 00:18:09,941 Like, you buy a girl two drinks and she's like, 459 00:18:09,981 --> 00:18:12,221 "Yeah, I'll bang you," but, like, 460 00:18:12,261 --> 00:18:14,301 it's fucking wrong, yeah? Yeah. 461 00:18:14,341 --> 00:18:17,061 That's interesting. How many guys do you have hit on you 462 00:18:17,101 --> 00:18:18,661 when you go out on any particular night, 463 00:18:18,701 --> 00:18:20,461 - like, on a Saturday night? - Countless. 464 00:18:20,501 --> 00:18:21,661 - Yeah? - Yeah. 465 00:18:21,701 --> 00:18:24,221 Do you think that alcohol and drugs 466 00:18:24,261 --> 00:18:27,421 plays a big part in sexual culture in Melbourne? 467 00:18:27,461 --> 00:18:30,621 'Cause once you're high, free love! 468 00:18:30,661 --> 00:18:31,901 Yeah! [Laughs] 469 00:18:31,941 --> 00:18:33,901 Thank you so much for your time. 470 00:18:33,941 --> 00:18:36,181 Thank you, nice to meet you. 471 00:18:36,221 --> 00:18:38,061 What do you think about same-sex picking up? 472 00:18:38,101 --> 00:18:40,021 Like, do you know, like, do many of your girlfriends 473 00:18:40,061 --> 00:18:41,341 or yourself ever pick up girls? 474 00:18:41,381 --> 00:18:43,981 I think when girls go out together 475 00:18:44,021 --> 00:18:45,701 they're more affectionate than guys, 476 00:18:45,741 --> 00:18:47,221 so they kind of fool around and that, 477 00:18:47,261 --> 00:18:48,541 and it's just for kicks, 478 00:18:48,581 --> 00:18:50,581 like, they don't, you know, 479 00:18:50,621 --> 00:18:52,661 it doesn't usually mean anything. 480 00:18:52,701 --> 00:18:55,701 But then again it is awkward when you kiss a girl 481 00:18:55,741 --> 00:18:58,781 and they are a lesbian, that's a little bit awkward. 482 00:18:58,821 --> 00:19:00,581 - The kind of people... - [Nathan] I also had a chance 483 00:19:00,621 --> 00:19:03,661 to talk to Darren, who is organizing tonight's club event, 484 00:19:04,621 --> 00:19:07,021 and ask him about the sexual culture in Melbourne. 485 00:19:07,061 --> 00:19:10,021 You know, that's the environment that we're running here. 486 00:19:10,061 --> 00:19:12,341 It's making sure that everyone can meet who they want to meet, 487 00:19:12,381 --> 00:19:14,381 and make sure they can have fun while they do it, 488 00:19:14,421 --> 00:19:16,341 but certainly there's a lot of that sexual activity 489 00:19:16,381 --> 00:19:19,021 in Melbourne, it's just whether you know about it or not. 490 00:19:19,061 --> 00:19:21,581 People are out there every week and they're meeting new people. 491 00:19:21,621 --> 00:19:23,781 I think people are a lot more active than they let off. 492 00:19:23,821 --> 00:19:26,301 Do you think alcohol and/or drugs 493 00:19:26,341 --> 00:19:29,021 is a big influence towards a sexual culture, 494 00:19:29,061 --> 00:19:31,701 and sexual exploration that goes down in the city? 495 00:19:31,741 --> 00:19:33,421 Yeah, well, another great question. 496 00:19:33,461 --> 00:19:36,941 You see, there's a lot of guys who are into the drugs 497 00:19:36,981 --> 00:19:39,101 and a lot of girls follow that about them, 498 00:19:39,141 --> 00:19:42,901 so, you know, it's sometimes sad to see what some people would do 499 00:19:42,941 --> 00:19:44,221 to be part of that experience, 500 00:19:44,261 --> 00:19:45,981 but I'm think it does by a huge part, 501 00:19:46,021 --> 00:19:47,581 probably more than we think, 502 00:19:47,621 --> 00:19:50,301 but, um, certainly, you know behind closed doors, 503 00:19:50,341 --> 00:19:51,541 anyone can do what they like. 504 00:19:51,581 --> 00:19:53,381 [club music] 505 00:20:06,941 --> 00:20:09,061 [Nathan] The idea of teenagers bumping into each other 506 00:20:09,101 --> 00:20:10,261 on the dance floor is a little too tame 507 00:20:10,301 --> 00:20:12,021 for some people's tastes. 508 00:20:12,061 --> 00:20:13,581 You see, there's a thriving underground 509 00:20:13,621 --> 00:20:15,101 swingers culture here in Melbourne 510 00:20:15,141 --> 00:20:17,261 that dates back to the 1960s. 511 00:20:17,301 --> 00:20:18,661 So, we're going to head out into the suburbs 512 00:20:18,701 --> 00:20:20,501 to talk to the host of Club True Blue, 513 00:20:20,541 --> 00:20:23,581 one of Melbourne's longest-running swingers clubs. 514 00:20:23,621 --> 00:20:25,341 - Welcome, Nathan. - Thanks, guys. 515 00:20:25,381 --> 00:20:28,141 This is where we hold our parties, Club True Blue. 516 00:20:28,181 --> 00:20:30,701 Can you tell us about the club itself and how it began? 517 00:20:30,741 --> 00:20:35,181 Well, we started the, uh, parties back in, well, 2000 now, 518 00:20:35,221 --> 00:20:36,781 so it's ten years or so. 519 00:20:36,821 --> 00:20:38,461 So you obviously enjoy it because... 520 00:20:38,501 --> 00:20:40,101 - The length it's been going. - [laughing] 521 00:20:40,141 --> 00:20:41,981 It looks like it actually has to be couples? 522 00:20:42,021 --> 00:20:45,261 - Yeah, it's only couples that we... we run for, yeah. - Okay. 523 00:20:45,301 --> 00:20:48,061 - Just for swinging couples. - I suppose the history of swinging is couples. 524 00:20:48,101 --> 00:20:49,541 - It is couples. - Yeah, yeah. 525 00:20:49,581 --> 00:20:51,221 I mean, we occasionally as in singles, 526 00:20:51,261 --> 00:20:53,141 single ladies but not single men. 527 00:20:53,181 --> 00:20:55,381 You seem to attract all sorts of people 528 00:20:55,421 --> 00:20:58,221 from all different walks of life and, uh... 529 00:20:58,261 --> 00:21:00,021 Yeah, there's nothing really specific 530 00:21:00,061 --> 00:21:01,861 that you'd say that there's a certain type of person. 531 00:21:01,901 --> 00:21:03,901 But you guys are obviously comfortable, 532 00:21:03,941 --> 00:21:05,941 but perhaps more comfortable even physically 533 00:21:05,981 --> 00:21:07,381 than a lot of other people. 534 00:21:07,421 --> 00:21:11,021 After speaking for a female perspective, um, 535 00:21:11,061 --> 00:21:13,701 you know, a lot of women, they have body issues, and all the rest of it. 536 00:21:13,741 --> 00:21:16,781 The parties have really helped me overcome that, 537 00:21:16,821 --> 00:21:18,861 because everyone, sort of, when they dress down, 538 00:21:18,901 --> 00:21:20,461 they're walking around in lingerie or nothing. 539 00:21:20,501 --> 00:21:24,181 And no one cares what you look like, um. 540 00:21:24,221 --> 00:21:26,501 - So there's not pretentiousness... - No, not at all. 541 00:21:26,541 --> 00:21:28,301 It's a comfortable environment, and everybody here 542 00:21:28,341 --> 00:21:30,301 - are thinking the same way. - Exactly. 543 00:21:30,341 --> 00:21:33,061 I suppose, the best way, for when I describe it to first timers, 544 00:21:33,101 --> 00:21:35,421 is like going to a friend's place for a party. 545 00:21:35,461 --> 00:21:37,381 All very friendly, very relaxed, very casual, 546 00:21:37,421 --> 00:21:39,021 just obviously with the added extra. 547 00:21:39,061 --> 00:21:40,461 - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah. 548 00:21:40,501 --> 00:21:41,701 [Nathan] I really wanted to find out 549 00:21:41,741 --> 00:21:43,261 why couples engage in swinging, 550 00:21:43,301 --> 00:21:45,021 and to answer this, David and Julie 551 00:21:45,061 --> 00:21:47,501 took me to their bedroom. 552 00:21:47,541 --> 00:21:49,061 Because I think it's a natural part of life, 553 00:21:49,101 --> 00:21:51,061 as in, we all enjoy the sex, 554 00:21:51,101 --> 00:21:53,581 and, um, for the fact that you can 555 00:21:53,621 --> 00:21:55,141 experience it with your partner, 556 00:21:55,181 --> 00:21:56,901 we all have different fantasies and so forth. 557 00:21:56,941 --> 00:22:00,661 One partner might not be able to, um, provide all that, 558 00:22:00,701 --> 00:22:02,541 where... and then you get people that are cheating, 559 00:22:02,581 --> 00:22:04,381 and have affairs, and go behind our backs, 560 00:22:04,421 --> 00:22:05,901 and have all these secrets and things 561 00:22:05,941 --> 00:22:07,821 to try and live that life, whereas you don't, 562 00:22:07,861 --> 00:22:10,381 you don't need to in this sort of lifestyle. 563 00:22:10,421 --> 00:22:12,021 You can enjoy everything you want. 564 00:22:12,061 --> 00:22:13,421 It's all very open and honest. 565 00:22:13,461 --> 00:22:15,781 So, if you could run us through a normal, 566 00:22:15,821 --> 00:22:17,061 normal night here for the events, 567 00:22:17,101 --> 00:22:18,781 how they unfold from start to finish. 568 00:22:18,821 --> 00:22:21,381 What would we expect if we came down on our first time? 569 00:22:21,421 --> 00:22:24,781 When people first arrive, either David or myself will show people into the house. 570 00:22:24,821 --> 00:22:28,461 We'll show them around, um, introduce them to all the other people that are here, 571 00:22:28,501 --> 00:22:30,141 and then usually for about the first hour, 572 00:22:30,181 --> 00:22:31,981 hour and a half, very social. 573 00:22:32,021 --> 00:22:33,701 People have a few drinks, mix and mingle. 574 00:22:33,741 --> 00:22:36,661 We've got a spa set up out in our garage. 575 00:22:36,701 --> 00:22:39,861 Um, then after that time people will dress down, 576 00:22:39,901 --> 00:22:41,061 whatever they're comfortable wearing, 577 00:22:41,101 --> 00:22:43,061 lingerie, erotic gear, 578 00:22:43,101 --> 00:22:45,501 and head off into the rooms for a bit of fun. 579 00:22:45,541 --> 00:22:47,861 Then about... and after an hour or so, 580 00:22:47,901 --> 00:22:49,981 people will come up for some fresh air... [chuckles] 581 00:22:50,021 --> 00:22:52,181 Have a few drinks, sort of freshen themselves up, 582 00:22:52,221 --> 00:22:53,981 and then the evenings usually finish up 583 00:22:54,861 --> 00:22:56,261 one thirty-ish, thereabouts. 584 00:22:56,301 --> 00:22:58,181 How is it that you are strong enough 585 00:22:58,221 --> 00:23:02,461 and are able to overcome the, uh, feeling of jealousy? 586 00:23:02,501 --> 00:23:05,541 For one, we have a very open and straightforward relationship. 587 00:23:05,581 --> 00:23:08,541 There's no, no need to have any, any doubts, 588 00:23:08,581 --> 00:23:10,701 or secrets, or anything like that. 589 00:23:10,741 --> 00:23:13,981 So, for me, I can talk to Julie about anything, 590 00:23:14,021 --> 00:23:16,061 and I think for most people that are in the lifestyle, 591 00:23:16,101 --> 00:23:17,941 I think it seems to be the same way. 592 00:23:17,981 --> 00:23:20,341 They have a very open and strong relationship, 593 00:23:20,381 --> 00:23:22,421 so the jealousies may be there, 594 00:23:22,461 --> 00:23:25,661 but they don't really, um, you know, create any issues. 595 00:23:25,701 --> 00:23:27,421 I find that, you know, they're the sort of things 596 00:23:27,461 --> 00:23:30,581 that create problems for, uh, couples, 597 00:23:30,621 --> 00:23:32,141 is when you've got those sort of restrictions, 598 00:23:32,181 --> 00:23:33,581 and one doesn't match the other, 599 00:23:33,621 --> 00:23:35,341 and you're not living a happy lifestyle, 600 00:23:35,381 --> 00:23:37,501 everything's going to get in the way 601 00:23:37,541 --> 00:23:39,701 and create problems, you know. I think this way you can live 602 00:23:39,741 --> 00:23:42,101 an open and honest relationship 603 00:23:42,141 --> 00:23:44,301 that, um, you're both very close 604 00:23:44,341 --> 00:23:47,741 - and comfortable with each other. - I suppose you're not ever then 605 00:23:47,781 --> 00:23:50,101 worried that someone's going to cheat eventually. 606 00:23:50,141 --> 00:23:52,301 - No, not really. - It's not there. 607 00:23:52,341 --> 00:23:54,381 It's actually, uh, more encouraged 608 00:23:54,421 --> 00:23:57,781 to, uh, have those desires and, um, fantasies, 609 00:23:57,821 --> 00:24:02,061 and experiment with them, more so than try and keep it from your partner. 610 00:24:02,101 --> 00:24:04,261 It's really about encouraging to be involved. 611 00:24:04,301 --> 00:24:06,221 I think our whole culture and our lifestyles 612 00:24:06,261 --> 00:24:09,541 are starting to open up, and become more aware, 613 00:24:09,581 --> 00:24:11,981 and, uh, focused on what we want and so forth. 614 00:24:12,021 --> 00:24:14,301 And that really, I suppose, 615 00:24:14,341 --> 00:24:16,101 attracts people to this sort of lifestyle. 616 00:24:16,141 --> 00:24:17,901 [Julie] Yeah, and we don't go door knocking. 617 00:24:17,941 --> 00:24:20,701 [laughs] No, we don't. 618 00:24:20,741 --> 00:24:22,501 - They'll come and knock here. - Maybe we should? 619 00:24:22,541 --> 00:24:24,341 - Well. - [both laughing] 620 00:24:24,381 --> 00:24:26,381 Thank you so much for your time guys, it's been great. 621 00:24:26,421 --> 00:24:27,741 - You're welcome, - Pleasure, thank you. 622 00:24:27,781 --> 00:24:29,181 - Lovely to talk. - Thank you so much. 623 00:24:29,221 --> 00:24:30,501 My experience has taught me 624 00:24:30,541 --> 00:24:31,981 that most people find the idea 625 00:24:32,021 --> 00:24:34,341 of swapping their partner for sex unappealing. 626 00:24:34,381 --> 00:24:35,781 I'm here to speak with Dr. Janet Horn, 627 00:24:35,821 --> 00:24:37,501 or Dr. Jan as she likes to be called, 628 00:24:37,541 --> 00:24:40,221 who's a clinical psychologist, relationship expert, 629 00:24:40,261 --> 00:24:42,301 and has written dozens of books on sex. 630 00:24:42,341 --> 00:24:43,741 I'm hoping she can help me understand 631 00:24:43,781 --> 00:24:45,621 the idea behind swingers parties, 632 00:24:45,661 --> 00:24:49,261 and the health behind Melbourne's diverse sexual culture. 633 00:24:49,301 --> 00:24:50,821 [Nathan] What do you believe is the modern 634 00:24:50,861 --> 00:24:52,421 sexual attitude in Melbourne? 635 00:24:53,261 --> 00:24:56,221 Well, I think that sex nowadays is anything goes, 636 00:24:56,261 --> 00:24:59,581 and whereas in other, um, eras 637 00:24:59,621 --> 00:25:02,461 might have said the same in the, you know, 1920s, uh, 638 00:25:02,501 --> 00:25:04,901 nowadays women are not repressed 639 00:25:04,941 --> 00:25:06,381 in the ways that they were. 640 00:25:06,421 --> 00:25:08,541 And in fact they now say that 641 00:25:08,581 --> 00:25:12,261 oral all sex is the new goodnight kiss. 642 00:25:12,301 --> 00:25:15,501 So, I'm fascinated with how young people in particular 643 00:25:15,541 --> 00:25:18,301 hook up and have sex with strangers. 644 00:25:18,341 --> 00:25:21,741 Do you think that men become addicted to sex, uh, 645 00:25:21,781 --> 00:25:23,741 because it's a good... It's used as a stress relief? 646 00:25:23,781 --> 00:25:26,661 I think a lot of men use sex as a de-stress, 647 00:25:26,701 --> 00:25:30,021 and they will go to something like a prostitute, 648 00:25:30,061 --> 00:25:33,101 or online, or a swinging situation 649 00:25:33,141 --> 00:25:36,501 because, um, they've got no obligation 650 00:25:36,541 --> 00:25:38,781 to express themselves emotionally, 651 00:25:38,821 --> 00:25:40,301 but they get that release 652 00:25:40,341 --> 00:25:42,541 because of the sexual gratification. 653 00:25:42,581 --> 00:25:44,901 And there's release, relief, 654 00:25:44,941 --> 00:25:46,741 um, and then there's sort of some space 655 00:25:46,781 --> 00:25:48,421 emotionally for them. 656 00:25:48,461 --> 00:25:50,421 And, um, then they're on the rollercoaster 657 00:25:50,461 --> 00:25:52,181 because next time they feel the pressure, 658 00:25:52,221 --> 00:25:54,861 the stress, it's like, "Aw, what made me feel good last time" 659 00:25:54,901 --> 00:25:57,501 was sexual expression, let's go get it again." 660 00:25:57,541 --> 00:25:59,101 The next minute, they're addicted. 661 00:25:59,141 --> 00:26:00,501 This is different for women though, isn't it? 662 00:26:00,541 --> 00:26:03,021 Because women, uh, can we say, 663 00:26:03,061 --> 00:26:05,021 feel pleasure in perhaps a slightly different way? 664 00:26:05,061 --> 00:26:08,181 I think that, um, there really isn't, um, 665 00:26:08,221 --> 00:26:11,181 the same opportunities for women. Sure, there's online sex, 666 00:26:11,221 --> 00:26:14,181 but most women would be quite satisfied with their vibrator. 667 00:26:14,221 --> 00:26:16,861 [chuckles] - And, um, you know, even older women now 668 00:26:16,901 --> 00:26:19,581 have discovered how easy it is 669 00:26:19,621 --> 00:26:22,461 to use a vibrator to have an orgasm, so. 670 00:26:22,501 --> 00:26:26,261 You know, it's like for them, um, in the moment 671 00:26:26,301 --> 00:26:28,581 they have their own way of getting off, 672 00:26:28,621 --> 00:26:31,101 and, um, they're happy enough with that. 673 00:26:31,141 --> 00:26:33,301 They don't need the complications. 674 00:26:33,341 --> 00:26:35,621 Is Melbourne considered sexually healthy, um, 675 00:26:35,661 --> 00:26:37,221 in relation to other countries? 676 00:26:38,661 --> 00:26:41,221 Well, you know, we have the stereotypes around countries, 677 00:26:41,261 --> 00:26:43,461 you know, like in Holland, and Amsterdam, 678 00:26:43,501 --> 00:26:44,581 and the red-light district 679 00:26:44,621 --> 00:26:46,101 just being really, really, open. 680 00:26:46,141 --> 00:26:49,341 And Melbourne doesn't really have the same, 681 00:26:49,381 --> 00:26:52,301 the King's Cross that they might have in Sydney, 682 00:26:52,341 --> 00:26:54,701 but I think that particularly for young people, 683 00:26:54,741 --> 00:26:58,781 um, that hook up, um, ability, it's happening worldwide. 684 00:26:58,821 --> 00:27:01,181 Obviously with that though also comes more problems, 685 00:27:01,221 --> 00:27:03,381 more STIs, more STDs. 686 00:27:03,421 --> 00:27:06,021 Well, yes, safe sex really is, you know, 687 00:27:06,061 --> 00:27:08,541 the be-all, end-all, or should be. 688 00:27:08,581 --> 00:27:10,621 But, uh, there are so many people 689 00:27:10,661 --> 00:27:12,821 who also do the bare-backing 690 00:27:12,861 --> 00:27:15,261 that could put them in, you know, 691 00:27:15,301 --> 00:27:17,701 severe, at severe health risks. 692 00:27:17,741 --> 00:27:21,301 Um, I think that, just, it's often fueled by alcohol or drugs. 693 00:27:21,341 --> 00:27:24,821 I was just about to say that. Do you think that in Melbourne that, um, 694 00:27:24,861 --> 00:27:27,581 you know, sexual freedom or experimentation 695 00:27:27,621 --> 00:27:29,901 is fueled by intoxication? 696 00:27:29,941 --> 00:27:32,941 Well, I think in Melbourne and every other place of the world 697 00:27:32,981 --> 00:27:38,661 that, you know, once it... there's some kind of, um, substance being enjoyed, 698 00:27:38,701 --> 00:27:40,581 um, then inhibitions go down 699 00:27:40,621 --> 00:27:44,261 and, um, sexual expression becomes easy. 700 00:27:44,301 --> 00:27:46,381 That seems to be the culture here, is that people will go out 701 00:27:46,421 --> 00:27:48,381 on the weekend after they've worked all week, 702 00:27:48,421 --> 00:27:50,381 they'll drink until their tipsy or drunk, 703 00:27:50,421 --> 00:27:52,301 and then they'll have the booty calls, 704 00:27:52,341 --> 00:27:53,501 or they'll try and pick up. 705 00:27:53,541 --> 00:27:54,861 And the one-night stands 706 00:27:54,901 --> 00:27:56,661 - are quite, uh, popular. - Absolutely. 707 00:27:56,701 --> 00:27:59,181 I mean, I had a young girl, she was only 23 708 00:27:59,221 --> 00:28:00,781 and gorgeous, like a little fairy. 709 00:28:00,821 --> 00:28:02,861 She was just really, really pretty, 710 00:28:02,901 --> 00:28:05,501 great figure. And she said, "I've never had an orgasm." 711 00:28:05,541 --> 00:28:07,381 And I said, "Oh well, tell me about", 712 00:28:07,421 --> 00:28:08,581 you know, your partners." 713 00:28:08,621 --> 00:28:10,461 And she said, "I've lost count." 714 00:28:10,501 --> 00:28:12,861 I said, "What happened?" She said, "I go out on Friday night, 715 00:28:12,901 --> 00:28:14,981 get drunk, and then end up 716 00:28:15,021 --> 00:28:17,661 having sex with somebody." And I said, "Why?" 717 00:28:17,701 --> 00:28:20,581 And she said, "Well, you just do it." -[Nathan lightly chuckles] 718 00:28:20,621 --> 00:28:22,581 [upbeat music] 719 00:28:25,301 --> 00:28:27,421 American comedian Billy Crystal once said, 720 00:28:27,461 --> 00:28:28,821 "Women need a reason to have sex, 721 00:28:28,861 --> 00:28:30,421 men just need a place." 722 00:28:30,461 --> 00:28:32,221 Well, if you live in Melbourne you're in luck. 723 00:28:32,261 --> 00:28:35,301 The city has had legal prostitution since 1986, 724 00:28:35,341 --> 00:28:37,021 and illegal massage parlors 725 00:28:37,061 --> 00:28:39,101 existed for over a century before that. 726 00:28:39,141 --> 00:28:41,821 There are currently about a hundred registered brothels in town, 727 00:28:41,861 --> 00:28:43,621 and today I'm at the biggest one of them all. 728 00:28:43,661 --> 00:28:45,661 The world-renowned Daily Planet. 729 00:28:45,701 --> 00:28:47,181 It's so successful it's even listed 730 00:28:47,221 --> 00:28:48,901 on the Australian Stock Exchange. 731 00:28:51,101 --> 00:28:55,501 The Daily Planet is, um, Melbourne's, um, oldest 732 00:28:55,541 --> 00:28:58,501 and certainly among the largest registered, 733 00:28:58,541 --> 00:29:02,181 licensed brothel in the southern hemisphere. 734 00:29:02,221 --> 00:29:05,661 Um, we are registered here for 18 rooms 735 00:29:05,701 --> 00:29:07,941 to be able to use for prostitution. 736 00:29:07,981 --> 00:29:09,861 Okay, wow, can you give us a tour? 737 00:29:09,901 --> 00:29:11,461 We certainly can, off we go. 738 00:29:13,221 --> 00:29:15,781 - Each room has, um, a name. - Right. 739 00:29:15,821 --> 00:29:18,621 And we're just now going to see the Mediterranean. 740 00:29:18,661 --> 00:29:19,781 The Mediterranean. 741 00:29:25,621 --> 00:29:30,941 - Oh, wow, okay. - This is the largest room that we have, um, in the brothel 742 00:29:30,981 --> 00:29:33,861 with the three, um, the three beds, 743 00:29:33,901 --> 00:29:35,861 and it has the largest spa. 744 00:29:35,901 --> 00:29:38,661 - Um, we call this a party room. - Okay. [Chuckles] 745 00:29:38,701 --> 00:29:42,981 It is available to just, um, a couple if they want, 746 00:29:43,021 --> 00:29:47,221 but if there are, um, gentlemen wanting 747 00:29:47,261 --> 00:29:49,221 to have, you know, two ladies, 748 00:29:49,261 --> 00:29:51,301 or two gentlemen here with two ladies, 749 00:29:51,341 --> 00:29:53,501 we usually allocate them to this room. 750 00:29:53,541 --> 00:29:56,541 [Nathan] And what about the hygiene issues? 751 00:29:56,581 --> 00:30:00,501 Well, we run under very strict, um, regulations here. 752 00:30:00,541 --> 00:30:04,541 All of the towels, beds, sheets, et cetera, um, 753 00:30:04,581 --> 00:30:08,581 of course are constantly changed and washed. 754 00:30:08,621 --> 00:30:10,221 And as far as infections go and stuff like that, 755 00:30:10,261 --> 00:30:12,461 are the women tested regularly? 756 00:30:12,501 --> 00:30:14,981 By law they're required to be tested. 757 00:30:15,021 --> 00:30:17,501 They have, um, swabs done and have to give us 758 00:30:17,541 --> 00:30:19,461 a medical certificate every month. 759 00:30:19,501 --> 00:30:21,261 - Right. - And they also have to have 760 00:30:21,301 --> 00:30:24,021 blood for HIV, et cetera, 761 00:30:24,061 --> 00:30:26,861 and at the moment that's on a three monthly basis. 762 00:30:26,901 --> 00:30:28,781 [Nathan] The Daily Planet also has a strict 763 00:30:28,821 --> 00:30:32,101 no sexual contact without a condom rule, 764 00:30:32,141 --> 00:30:36,581 to ensure the health of both its workers and its customers. 765 00:30:36,621 --> 00:30:39,221 The girls each have favorite rooms, 766 00:30:39,261 --> 00:30:41,381 you know, that they're... They like to use. 767 00:30:41,421 --> 00:30:43,621 Some of them like to use the smaller ones, 768 00:30:43,661 --> 00:30:46,861 some of them are happier in, um, the slightly larger ones. 769 00:30:46,901 --> 00:30:49,221 Okay, nice shower though, nice beds, 770 00:30:49,261 --> 00:30:52,021 - and obviously a beautiful spa. - A beautiful spa. 771 00:30:52,061 --> 00:30:54,861 [Nathan] Gayle seemed a most unlikely brothel madam 772 00:30:54,901 --> 00:30:58,301 and she had an endearing sense of humor about the job. 773 00:30:58,341 --> 00:31:01,501 - Mirrors on the roof. - Mirrors on the ceiling, 774 00:31:01,541 --> 00:31:04,461 they're not necessarily always a good look. 775 00:31:04,501 --> 00:31:06,341 As you look up you probably think, 776 00:31:06,381 --> 00:31:09,661 "Good God, I didn't realize I looked that bad." 777 00:31:09,701 --> 00:31:13,301 - [both laughing] - Oh, wow. 778 00:31:13,341 --> 00:31:15,061 [Nathan] But I really wanted to find out more 779 00:31:15,101 --> 00:31:18,221 about the girls that worked at The Daily Planet. 780 00:31:18,261 --> 00:31:20,541 Gayle, how many women are working here at any one time? 781 00:31:20,581 --> 00:31:22,821 During the daytime we only, um, 782 00:31:22,861 --> 00:31:25,021 we perhaps average six to eight 783 00:31:25,061 --> 00:31:28,541 between ten o'clock in the morning till 8 o'clock at night. 784 00:31:28,581 --> 00:31:31,901 Um, of an evening we certainly have more come on duty. 785 00:31:31,941 --> 00:31:33,901 On Friday and Saturday nights 786 00:31:33,941 --> 00:31:37,061 we have 30-plus ladies on duty at any one time. 787 00:31:37,101 --> 00:31:38,941 And how long would any girl be working? 788 00:31:38,981 --> 00:31:42,181 They can choose to do as many shifts as they like, 789 00:31:42,221 --> 00:31:44,181 but we watch that. 790 00:31:44,221 --> 00:31:47,141 If someone is doing a lot of shifts 791 00:31:47,181 --> 00:31:49,061 and doing a lot of bookings, 792 00:31:49,101 --> 00:31:52,501 um, whereas that's great for us that they're here, 793 00:31:52,541 --> 00:31:55,581 it sometimes is not necessarily the best thing for the girl. 794 00:31:55,621 --> 00:31:58,421 - And how old? What age range are we looking at? - Um... 795 00:32:00,061 --> 00:32:02,341 Well, they range from 18, 796 00:32:02,381 --> 00:32:03,821 because it's certainly illegal 797 00:32:03,861 --> 00:32:05,581 to be here under that age. 798 00:32:05,621 --> 00:32:08,461 And I think the lady, the oldest lady 799 00:32:08,501 --> 00:32:12,981 that, um, we have that comes in, is in her early 50s. 800 00:32:13,021 --> 00:32:14,181 Hmm, okay, wow. 801 00:32:14,221 --> 00:32:16,821 [Gayle] I personally think that, 802 00:32:16,861 --> 00:32:20,501 um, it's a very difficult job that they do, 803 00:32:20,541 --> 00:32:23,061 um, and I've spoken to some of them about it, 804 00:32:23,101 --> 00:32:28,141 how do they actually manage to, um, be normal? 805 00:32:28,181 --> 00:32:30,021 - Um... - How do they function outside? 806 00:32:30,061 --> 00:32:32,941 Function outside... um, when you do the job that they do. 807 00:32:32,981 --> 00:32:35,381 And they have different ways of approaching it. 808 00:32:35,421 --> 00:32:39,621 Um, all the ladies that I certainly know that work here, 809 00:32:39,661 --> 00:32:44,501 um, they're very upbeat. Um, they're happy 810 00:32:44,541 --> 00:32:46,821 with what they're doing because they've chosen to do it. 811 00:32:46,861 --> 00:32:49,781 - Okay, right. - It's their choice, um, 812 00:32:49,821 --> 00:32:52,701 how they, um, conduct their lives, um... 813 00:32:52,741 --> 00:32:54,901 Right, so you wouldn't have a girl that works here 814 00:32:54,941 --> 00:32:57,341 who comes in, who hates it, that doesn't want to be here? 815 00:32:57,381 --> 00:32:59,261 - I don't believe so, no. - Okay. 816 00:32:59,301 --> 00:33:03,141 Some of them they said, like, they really like sex. 817 00:33:03,181 --> 00:33:05,741 It doesn't serve the purposes. If she really hates it, 818 00:33:05,781 --> 00:33:09,501 it would reflect in the service that you gave to the client. 819 00:33:09,541 --> 00:33:13,101 You can hardly be really hating what you're doing 820 00:33:13,141 --> 00:33:14,701 and give good service. 821 00:33:14,741 --> 00:33:17,261 What is the most times a girl's booked clients 822 00:33:17,301 --> 00:33:19,061 in one night that you know of? 823 00:33:20,341 --> 00:33:24,061 Probably the most I've seen is 12. 824 00:33:24,101 --> 00:33:26,101 - Wow. - 12 hours. 825 00:33:26,141 --> 00:33:28,621 - 12, so 12 clients in 12 hours? - Yes. 826 00:33:28,661 --> 00:33:31,621 Gayle, what would you say is the future of The Daily Planet? 827 00:33:31,661 --> 00:33:33,901 Do you think this is a place that will be long-standing? 828 00:33:33,941 --> 00:33:36,581 Do you think it'll be here in ten years? 829 00:33:36,621 --> 00:33:38,861 I believe it would be here in ten years, 830 00:33:38,901 --> 00:33:41,661 in 20 years, maybe even in 30 years. 831 00:33:41,701 --> 00:33:46,541 This industry, um, and there's lots and lots 832 00:33:46,581 --> 00:33:47,981 of brothels in Melbourne, 833 00:33:48,021 --> 00:33:50,861 they exist because there's a need for it. 834 00:33:50,901 --> 00:33:53,861 It's not like we make clients come in, 835 00:33:53,901 --> 00:33:56,421 they come in because they have a need. 836 00:33:56,461 --> 00:33:57,941 - Right. - Um. 837 00:33:57,981 --> 00:34:00,781 They've had the same need for a long, long time. 838 00:34:00,821 --> 00:34:02,381 And I can't see in the future 839 00:34:02,421 --> 00:34:04,301 why that will alter. 840 00:34:04,341 --> 00:34:06,741 So as they say, the longest-running profession. 841 00:34:06,781 --> 00:34:09,781 - That it is, is quite correct. - Okay. 842 00:34:09,821 --> 00:34:11,381 [dramatic music] 843 00:34:15,701 --> 00:34:18,781 [Nathan] But not all sex work is as glamorous as the Daily Planet. 844 00:34:19,821 --> 00:34:23,221 Here on notorious Grey Street, in the beach-side suburb of St Kilda, 845 00:34:23,261 --> 00:34:27,381 desperate girls ply their trade nightly, risking health and safety. 846 00:34:27,421 --> 00:34:30,341 It stands in stark comparison to the sleek cocktail bars 847 00:34:30,381 --> 00:34:33,741 and expensive restaurants that are within a stone's throw of this corner. 848 00:34:33,781 --> 00:34:35,181 A rather dark underbelly 849 00:34:35,221 --> 00:34:36,701 to the city's polished exterior. 850 00:34:49,661 --> 00:34:52,141 [Nathan] Of course, it's not just heterosexuals that are interested 851 00:34:52,181 --> 00:34:54,061 in paying for sexual pleasure. 852 00:34:54,101 --> 00:34:57,661 There is a booming industry here for same-sex male escorts. 853 00:34:57,701 --> 00:35:02,421 I'm here to meet with Alex, who's a male gigolo, about his encounters and experiences. 854 00:35:02,461 --> 00:35:05,381 He's agreed to do the interview as long as we meet in a public place, 855 00:35:05,421 --> 00:35:07,181 so I'm not entirely sure he's going to show up, 856 00:35:07,221 --> 00:35:08,981 but fingers crossed. 857 00:35:12,541 --> 00:35:15,381 - Alex, thanks for coming. - Hi. 858 00:35:15,421 --> 00:35:17,861 - So you're originally from Thailand? - Yes, I'm from Thailand. 859 00:35:17,901 --> 00:35:21,621 Can you tell us how you got the initial idea to become an escort? 860 00:35:22,621 --> 00:35:26,261 Um, because of my visa, it's very hard to get a job 861 00:35:26,301 --> 00:35:30,261 and get out the schools salary, or well-paid, 862 00:35:30,301 --> 00:35:31,861 because if I work in a restaurant, 863 00:35:31,901 --> 00:35:34,901 like, work really hard, like, we get just like, 864 00:35:34,941 --> 00:35:38,661 uh, $10 per... a, an hour. 865 00:35:39,661 --> 00:35:41,461 I feel like I did that before 866 00:35:41,501 --> 00:35:42,741 and then it makes me sick, 867 00:35:42,781 --> 00:35:44,261 or maybe I find something else. 868 00:35:44,301 --> 00:35:45,661 And then, "How about just sex?," 869 00:35:45,701 --> 00:35:49,421 because I like to have sex on... too. 870 00:35:49,461 --> 00:35:51,981 [laughs] - So as far as clientele is concerned, 871 00:35:52,021 --> 00:35:55,141 what is expected of you or from you within your services? 872 00:35:55,181 --> 00:35:57,541 Definitely he expect sex from me, 873 00:35:57,581 --> 00:36:01,421 but, um, but we can't have sex like whole days. 874 00:36:01,461 --> 00:36:05,261 Uh, some clients, they're going to do like a day 875 00:36:05,301 --> 00:36:06,741 or a whole night client. 876 00:36:06,781 --> 00:36:09,981 They just like to have a good company 877 00:36:10,021 --> 00:36:12,301 with someone, and just talking, and, like, happy. 878 00:36:12,341 --> 00:36:14,181 Now we just spend a time with, 879 00:36:14,221 --> 00:36:15,701 and just make them happy, 880 00:36:15,741 --> 00:36:18,461 and then just sex just once time, that's it. 881 00:36:18,501 --> 00:36:21,261 Do you charge a lot of money by the hour? 882 00:36:21,301 --> 00:36:24,381 - How much do you charge? - I'll charge a lot because 883 00:36:24,421 --> 00:36:26,021 I don't want to work that much. 884 00:36:26,061 --> 00:36:31,341 And I just up my rate to $300 for an hour. 885 00:36:31,381 --> 00:36:33,901 And do you, uh, just work in the one city, 886 00:36:33,941 --> 00:36:36,501 or do you have clients that fly you around Australia? 887 00:36:36,541 --> 00:36:39,701 I got once, I'm... They're from Gold Coast. 888 00:36:39,741 --> 00:36:42,901 Yeah, they come to holiday here 889 00:36:42,941 --> 00:36:44,621 and then they ask me to go back with them. 890 00:36:44,661 --> 00:36:48,101 And in a Gold Coast for three days, 891 00:36:48,141 --> 00:36:49,661 and they pay me per days, 892 00:36:49,701 --> 00:36:52,261 like, 2,000 something per day. 893 00:36:52,301 --> 00:36:54,661 - $2,000 a day? - Yeah. 894 00:36:54,701 --> 00:36:56,941 And do you practice safe sex? 895 00:36:56,981 --> 00:36:58,061 Yes, always. 896 00:36:58,981 --> 00:37:02,541 Except, [laughs] I service my boyfriend's, 897 00:37:02,581 --> 00:37:04,701 he's someone I know very well. 898 00:37:04,741 --> 00:37:07,101 And your boyfriend know what you do as an escort? 899 00:37:07,141 --> 00:37:09,741 - Yes. - And he's comfortable with that? 900 00:37:09,781 --> 00:37:11,021 He's my client. [Laughs] 901 00:37:11,061 --> 00:37:12,181 - Really? - Yeah. 902 00:37:12,221 --> 00:37:14,621 - Wow, okay, interesting. - [laughs] 903 00:37:14,661 --> 00:37:16,821 Um, it sounds like a weird question, 904 00:37:16,861 --> 00:37:18,341 but do you enjoy what you do? 905 00:37:18,381 --> 00:37:20,581 If you got a right client, like, 906 00:37:21,461 --> 00:37:24,661 not really old, I'm sorry, like, 907 00:37:24,701 --> 00:37:29,661 not, uh, really ugly and like still have the good, uh, sex, 908 00:37:29,701 --> 00:37:31,901 or hot sex, we still enjoy good sex. 909 00:37:31,941 --> 00:37:34,901 But sometime we have to take care, like, 910 00:37:34,941 --> 00:37:36,501 "Sorry, like, very old 911 00:37:36,541 --> 00:37:39,461 and... fat," and something like that, 912 00:37:39,501 --> 00:37:43,861 is quite, we have to force ourselves to do that, uh. 913 00:37:43,901 --> 00:37:45,501 Okay. 914 00:37:45,541 --> 00:37:47,021 [Nathan] Meeting Alex has got me interested in 915 00:37:47,061 --> 00:37:49,501 a type of gay dating scene that exists here, 916 00:37:49,541 --> 00:37:51,541 so I'm going to go and check out Wet on Wellington, 917 00:37:51,581 --> 00:37:55,101 which has been described as Melbourne's finest gay pool and sauna. 918 00:37:55,141 --> 00:37:58,021 If you're a heterosexual you probably don't even know the place exists 919 00:37:58,061 --> 00:38:00,061 and would never have seen the inside. 920 00:38:00,101 --> 00:38:02,781 We're going to go and have a look before the doors open for trade. 921 00:38:02,821 --> 00:38:05,541 - G'day, Shane. - G'day, Nathan, welcome to Wet On Wellington. 922 00:38:05,581 --> 00:38:07,981 Thank you. So can you tell us a bit about the establishment? 923 00:38:08,021 --> 00:38:09,981 Yeah, Wet On Wellington is a venue 924 00:38:10,021 --> 00:38:12,261 that's designed for gay and bisexual men. 925 00:38:12,301 --> 00:38:14,501 Uh, it's a, it's a safe house, if you like, 926 00:38:14,541 --> 00:38:16,661 where they can come and enjoy the company 927 00:38:16,701 --> 00:38:22,181 of like-minded men, um, in an area that, um, affords them 928 00:38:22,221 --> 00:38:26,221 the freedom to be able to feel good about themselves 929 00:38:26,261 --> 00:38:28,061 and enjoy the facilities. 930 00:38:28,101 --> 00:38:30,301 Our venue is probably rated as 931 00:38:30,341 --> 00:38:31,941 probably number one in Australia, 932 00:38:31,981 --> 00:38:34,581 and probably within the top five or six of the world. 933 00:38:34,621 --> 00:38:36,621 We have a 25 meter swimming pool. 934 00:38:36,661 --> 00:38:38,941 We have saunas, bar and steam rooms. 935 00:38:38,981 --> 00:38:42,661 We have in a theater room that plays, um, the latest DVDs. 936 00:38:42,701 --> 00:38:44,821 Computer area, people can come here 937 00:38:44,861 --> 00:38:46,621 and use the Internet free of charge, 938 00:38:46,661 --> 00:38:50,021 so even for $20 entry you could basically 939 00:38:50,061 --> 00:38:52,381 sit, sit down all day on the Internet if you want. 940 00:38:52,421 --> 00:38:54,901 So, if you come here and you don't find someone that 941 00:38:54,941 --> 00:38:58,541 isn't to your liking, you can jump on the Net and invite them down. 942 00:38:58,581 --> 00:39:02,061 So it's very relaxed and it's like you cater for all type of situations. 943 00:39:02,101 --> 00:39:04,101 Absolutely. Being gay and say, closeted 944 00:39:04,141 --> 00:39:06,461 where you're not out to society, 945 00:39:06,501 --> 00:39:09,781 you're quite limited to where you can go, you know, 946 00:39:09,821 --> 00:39:12,261 be it a bar or something like that, to meet like-minded people, 947 00:39:12,301 --> 00:39:14,101 even just to talk. 948 00:39:14,141 --> 00:39:17,301 You can come in here and you know that whoever you talk to, 949 00:39:17,341 --> 00:39:19,341 you're not going to get a smack in the ear. 950 00:39:19,381 --> 00:39:21,461 [Nathan] I asked Shane to show me around upstairs, 951 00:39:21,501 --> 00:39:23,621 which has quite a reputation. 952 00:39:23,661 --> 00:39:26,501 It is totally different to the downstairs. 953 00:39:26,541 --> 00:39:30,301 Uh, upstairs we have cubicles and, um, play areas 954 00:39:30,341 --> 00:39:31,821 for people to cruise around 955 00:39:31,861 --> 00:39:33,421 and do what they do best. 956 00:39:33,461 --> 00:39:34,981 - How do you say that? - [Nathan laughs] 957 00:39:35,821 --> 00:39:38,981 - Every room has condoms and lube. - Mm-hmm. 958 00:39:39,901 --> 00:39:41,501 How many rooms are up here, Shane? 31? 959 00:39:41,541 --> 00:39:44,421 - 31. - Yeah, it's not for sleeping in. 960 00:39:44,461 --> 00:39:46,861 [chuckles] Have a look at this. 961 00:39:47,821 --> 00:39:50,501 - [Shane] What about for yourself? - [laughs] 962 00:39:50,541 --> 00:39:52,661 So, a bit of role-playing goes along here. 963 00:39:52,701 --> 00:39:54,381 We call this a heavy duty room. 964 00:39:54,421 --> 00:39:57,261 All right, it does look heavy-duty. 965 00:39:57,301 --> 00:39:59,421 - It does, yeah. - Mm. 966 00:39:59,461 --> 00:40:01,861 This area here is the Suckitaurium. 967 00:40:01,901 --> 00:40:04,101 Right, and what is the Suckitaurium? 968 00:40:04,141 --> 00:40:06,141 There's only one way to tell you. 969 00:40:06,181 --> 00:40:08,021 Basically, if you go into the top area, 970 00:40:08,061 --> 00:40:09,541 shove your dick through a hole, 971 00:40:09,581 --> 00:40:11,381 and it's my head height. 972 00:40:11,421 --> 00:40:13,341 So you just want to have a look in say, the first one there. 973 00:40:13,381 --> 00:40:14,701 [Shane] See the hole here? 974 00:40:17,741 --> 00:40:19,941 - [Shane calling from outside] - [Nathan] Oof. 975 00:40:19,981 --> 00:40:22,541 Wow. -[Shane] A large group play area. 976 00:40:22,581 --> 00:40:24,581 What's, what type of scenario... 977 00:40:24,621 --> 00:40:27,501 What's a regular scenario that would happen in in this room? 978 00:40:27,541 --> 00:40:30,621 Um, group playing, basically. 979 00:40:30,661 --> 00:40:33,621 Just people wanting to get together in a group. 980 00:40:33,661 --> 00:40:35,661 - That's quite popular. - Okay. 981 00:40:35,701 --> 00:40:37,621 Much to people's disbelief, 982 00:40:37,661 --> 00:40:39,941 - people do like playing in groups. - Yeah. 983 00:40:39,981 --> 00:40:42,221 The difference with the two porn lounges... 984 00:40:43,061 --> 00:40:47,941 is, this one we play a younger style of porn, 985 00:40:47,981 --> 00:40:50,861 and in the back one we play more of a heavy duty, 986 00:40:50,901 --> 00:40:55,981 so more of a manly type porn up there, younger type stuff here. 987 00:40:56,021 --> 00:41:00,821 We don't, um, play anything that shows bare-backing, 988 00:41:00,861 --> 00:41:02,901 in other words, sex without condoms, 989 00:41:02,941 --> 00:41:08,181 and we don't play, uh, any films that show any form of violence. 990 00:41:08,221 --> 00:41:09,341 - Right... - It's all... 991 00:41:09,381 --> 00:41:10,421 So, no sexual violence? 992 00:41:10,461 --> 00:41:11,861 No sexual violence. 993 00:41:11,901 --> 00:41:13,861 [Shane] We have our code of conduct here 994 00:41:13,901 --> 00:41:15,261 that people must abide by. 995 00:41:15,301 --> 00:41:16,901 And they're written in such a way that 996 00:41:16,941 --> 00:41:18,421 people are meant to understand, 997 00:41:18,461 --> 00:41:20,141 "No," means, "No." 998 00:41:20,181 --> 00:41:22,021 - Great. - Very, very simple. 999 00:41:22,061 --> 00:41:24,061 We push the safe sex rule all the time, 1000 00:41:24,101 --> 00:41:26,101 although you can't be there watching everyone, 1001 00:41:26,141 --> 00:41:27,501 you know, it's important part of our days lives 1002 00:41:27,541 --> 00:41:29,421 whether you're straight or gay. 1003 00:41:29,461 --> 00:41:32,381 [Nathan] What sort of clients do you have come here? 1004 00:41:32,421 --> 00:41:36,061 Monday to Friday, 85% of people 1005 00:41:36,101 --> 00:41:38,221 - that don't identify as gay. - Mm-hmm. 1006 00:41:38,261 --> 00:41:42,261 On weekends, it's, uh, probably 80% 1007 00:41:42,301 --> 00:41:44,381 that do identify as gay. 1008 00:41:44,421 --> 00:41:46,261 People that party at other venues 1009 00:41:46,301 --> 00:41:49,141 and then come here for a relaxation afterwards, 1010 00:41:49,181 --> 00:41:51,541 uh, for winding down, um, 1011 00:41:51,581 --> 00:41:53,181 or people that just come here to have sex. 1012 00:41:53,221 --> 00:41:55,421 So do people class the venue as a brothel? 1013 00:41:55,461 --> 00:41:58,221 No, they don't. Um, and it's totally 1014 00:41:58,261 --> 00:41:59,981 far removed from a brothel. 1015 00:42:00,021 --> 00:42:01,901 The difference with ourselves and a brothel is 1016 00:42:01,941 --> 00:42:04,901 with a brothel, you pay for sex. 1017 00:42:04,941 --> 00:42:08,861 Here you're paying an entrance fee to use the facilities. 1018 00:42:08,901 --> 00:42:11,781 If by chance you meet someone 1019 00:42:11,821 --> 00:42:14,261 and you choose to have sex with them, 1020 00:42:14,301 --> 00:42:16,741 then that's totally void of us 1021 00:42:16,781 --> 00:42:18,581 organizing it or doing anything like that. 1022 00:42:18,621 --> 00:42:21,661 We really are running a totally straight up and down venue, 1023 00:42:22,541 --> 00:42:26,661 uh, for the benefit of gay and bisexual people just to enjoy themselves. 1024 00:42:26,701 --> 00:42:29,901 [Nathan] Wet On Wellington was fascinating, but I was about to embark 1025 00:42:29,941 --> 00:42:32,061 on an even more interesting adventure. 1026 00:42:32,101 --> 00:42:34,701 [lighthearted music] - The famous French sexual sadist, 1027 00:42:34,741 --> 00:42:37,461 the Marquis de Sade wrote, "It is always by way of pain 1028 00:42:37,501 --> 00:42:39,101 that one arrives at pleasure," 1029 00:42:39,141 --> 00:42:40,941 and out here at this little quiet pocket of Melbourne 1030 00:42:40,981 --> 00:42:43,461 at what looks like a fairly nondescript warehouse, 1031 00:42:43,501 --> 00:42:45,541 but it's far more than that. To someone walking past, 1032 00:42:45,581 --> 00:42:48,261 they'd have no idea that is in fact a dungeon. 1033 00:42:48,301 --> 00:42:51,181 So I'm going to put my inhibitions on hold and take a peek inside. 1034 00:42:51,221 --> 00:42:53,261 - Hi, it's nice to meet you. - Thanks for having us. 1035 00:42:53,301 --> 00:42:54,981 - Welcome to Fetish House. - Thank you so much. 1036 00:42:55,021 --> 00:42:56,461 And I'll give you a bit of a tour. 1037 00:42:56,501 --> 00:42:57,981 Please do, that'll be great. 1038 00:42:58,021 --> 00:42:59,621 [Nathan] Dominatrix Mistress Emmeline 1039 00:42:59,661 --> 00:43:01,621 has offered to show me around Fetish House, 1040 00:43:01,661 --> 00:43:04,381 a six room bondage dungeon that offers services 1041 00:43:04,421 --> 00:43:07,341 for the more sexually adventurous. 1042 00:43:07,381 --> 00:43:10,261 To start, we have our cross-dressing room... 1043 00:43:10,301 --> 00:43:11,981 - Okay. - Which is kitted out with 1044 00:43:12,021 --> 00:43:13,781 pretty much every costume you could ever need. 1045 00:43:13,821 --> 00:43:16,061 - [Nathan] Oh, right. - We've got regular women's clothing 1046 00:43:16,101 --> 00:43:17,541 as well as the more fetish sort of things, 1047 00:43:17,581 --> 00:43:19,021 if you like to dress up as a schoolgirl, 1048 00:43:19,061 --> 00:43:21,461 or a police officer, or anything you like. 1049 00:43:21,501 --> 00:43:24,141 Someone will come in and they'll have a fantasy 1050 00:43:24,181 --> 00:43:27,581 about, um, being taught how to walk like a woman, how to speak... 1051 00:43:27,621 --> 00:43:30,141 Oh, right. -...How to dress, how to walk in heels, 1052 00:43:30,181 --> 00:43:34,061 which is harder than most of them think. [Laughs] And, yeah, they just get dressed up. 1053 00:43:34,101 --> 00:43:36,821 And, yeah, it's just the perfect atmosphere to get organized and girly. 1054 00:43:36,861 --> 00:43:39,181 [Nathan] Activities such as role play, torture, 1055 00:43:39,221 --> 00:43:42,581 and domination, are actively promoted and recommended. 1056 00:43:42,621 --> 00:43:45,621 And Mistress Emmeline loves every minute of it. 1057 00:43:45,661 --> 00:43:47,661 - Dungeon three. - Yes. 1058 00:43:47,701 --> 00:43:49,261 This has got the bondage bed 1059 00:43:49,301 --> 00:43:51,061 so you can actually lock people up in there, 1060 00:43:51,101 --> 00:43:52,981 make sure they don't go anywhere. 1061 00:43:53,021 --> 00:43:55,741 Um, the suspension rack in here is very popular. 1062 00:43:55,781 --> 00:43:57,621 But I like to call it the slave of fortune 1063 00:43:57,661 --> 00:43:59,461 because you can spin people around on it. 1064 00:43:59,501 --> 00:44:02,021 - Okay, the slave of fortune. - Yeah, it's a slave of fortune. 1065 00:44:02,061 --> 00:44:04,781 - Wow. - You just get strapped in and enjoy the ride. 1066 00:44:04,821 --> 00:44:08,581 - So it's very medieval. - It is, yeah, a lot of the torture and, 1067 00:44:08,621 --> 00:44:11,461 um, you know, discipline is all based around the medieval. 1068 00:44:11,501 --> 00:44:13,701 [Nathan] Don't think I want to get locked up in that! 1069 00:44:13,741 --> 00:44:15,581 Well, that's half the fun [Emmeline laughs] 1070 00:44:15,621 --> 00:44:17,861 - That's what people come in for. - You can spend some time 1071 00:44:17,901 --> 00:44:19,541 in there if you've been a bad puppy. 1072 00:44:19,581 --> 00:44:21,781 - [Nathan] Mm-hmm, alright. - This is probably 1073 00:44:21,821 --> 00:44:24,901 my favorite room. This is the medical room. 1074 00:44:24,941 --> 00:44:28,221 It's, um, all authentic, everything from the naughty nurse 1075 00:44:28,261 --> 00:44:30,301 through the suturing. And for example, 1076 00:44:30,341 --> 00:44:32,221 you can suture the skin, 1077 00:44:32,261 --> 00:44:35,461 so a man no longer appears to have a penis, 1078 00:44:36,301 --> 00:44:38,661 so that can be part of the cross-dressing 1079 00:44:38,701 --> 00:44:40,581 transformation as well. 1080 00:44:40,621 --> 00:44:42,941 Um, and you can also suture different things, 1081 00:44:42,981 --> 00:44:44,661 like, you can make the corsets on the back. 1082 00:44:44,701 --> 00:44:46,021 That's generally play piercing 1083 00:44:46,061 --> 00:44:47,341 but that's all part of it as well. 1084 00:44:47,381 --> 00:44:49,341 Yeah, lots of blood play. 1085 00:44:49,381 --> 00:44:50,501 - Right. - Which is definitely 1086 00:44:50,541 --> 00:44:52,781 an acquired taste. [Laughs] 1087 00:44:52,821 --> 00:44:55,261 - [Emmeline] This is dungeon two... - Yeah. 1088 00:44:55,301 --> 00:44:58,941 - Which has got the cross, which is always good. - Mm-hmm. 1089 00:44:58,981 --> 00:45:01,421 [Emmeline] Lots of nice custom-made furniture. 1090 00:45:01,461 --> 00:45:03,741 And this is probably the most equipped room, 1091 00:45:03,781 --> 00:45:07,661 in terms of, um, the more pain inflicting devices. 1092 00:45:07,701 --> 00:45:10,101 This one's got the horse, it's got the table 1093 00:45:10,141 --> 00:45:12,221 that you can twist them into really awkward positions. 1094 00:45:12,261 --> 00:45:14,021 - Oh, okay. - Yeah, the chair. 1095 00:45:14,061 --> 00:45:17,221 - So, it's, yeah, it's a fantastic room for... - Mm. 1096 00:45:17,261 --> 00:45:19,981 - Lots of the more fetish side of things. - So, torture chamber. 1097 00:45:20,021 --> 00:45:23,621 [Nathan] All of these tools were used for what's known as BDSM. 1098 00:45:24,701 --> 00:45:28,141 [Emmeline] BDSM stands for bondage, discipline, sadomasochism. 1099 00:45:28,181 --> 00:45:30,141 - Right. - Um. 1100 00:45:30,181 --> 00:45:35,181 It usually means bondage, um, different restraints, um, 1101 00:45:35,221 --> 00:45:37,021 the dominant/submissive role. 1102 00:45:37,061 --> 00:45:40,341 - Do you have a high pain threshold yourself? - I do, yeah. 1103 00:45:40,381 --> 00:45:44,421 I've got a high pain threshold and a high bullshit tolerance. 1104 00:45:44,461 --> 00:45:47,821 [laughs] - So, I do have to put up with a lot of it sometimes. 1105 00:45:47,861 --> 00:45:49,301 What are the customers like that come here, 1106 00:45:49,341 --> 00:45:51,821 what sort of people tend to come here? 1107 00:45:51,861 --> 00:45:54,181 Well, obviously it's not just a bit of chump change, 1108 00:45:54,221 --> 00:45:56,221 like, you've got... It's 240 for an hour. 1109 00:45:56,261 --> 00:45:59,821 - Yeah. - And so, mostly, we do see middle-class, 1110 00:45:59,861 --> 00:46:02,301 um, white-collar employees. 1111 00:46:02,341 --> 00:46:05,981 I get a lot of, uh, police officers and firemen. 1112 00:46:06,021 --> 00:46:09,101 - Wow. - But doing that, they like to be in the submissive role, 1113 00:46:09,141 --> 00:46:10,901 I'm assuming because they like being in... 1114 00:46:10,941 --> 00:46:12,781 They're in charge throughout the rest of their lives, 1115 00:46:12,821 --> 00:46:15,461 - so they like letting go of it a little bit... - Okay. 1116 00:46:15,501 --> 00:46:17,861 - In their sexual life. - So it's very much psychological 1117 00:46:17,901 --> 00:46:21,581 - as much as it is physical? - Yes, often it's more psychological than anything. 1118 00:46:21,621 --> 00:46:24,461 - Right. - A lot of the play you've got to be hearty for it, 1119 00:46:24,501 --> 00:46:27,021 and you've got to make sure you know what you're getting yourself into. 1120 00:46:27,061 --> 00:46:30,221 Can you go too far, can some... Can a client go too far, or? 1121 00:46:30,261 --> 00:46:34,101 You have your safe limits, and your safe words, and your hard limits. 1122 00:46:34,141 --> 00:46:37,181 Um, a hard limit is something that you won't do no matter what. 1123 00:46:37,221 --> 00:46:41,661 And so, for me, my hard limits are anything to do with children, 1124 00:46:41,701 --> 00:46:45,101 anything to do with animals, and anything to do with scat. 1125 00:46:45,141 --> 00:46:47,541 Anything else is pretty much open game. 1126 00:46:47,581 --> 00:46:50,061 [Nathan] Now that I knew Mistress Emmeline's hard limits, 1127 00:46:50,101 --> 00:46:51,541 I thought I'd take the opportunity 1128 00:46:51,581 --> 00:46:53,701 to engage in a little bondage myself. 1129 00:46:54,661 --> 00:46:57,581 So, what's this contraption? I'm guessing I sort of... 1130 00:46:57,621 --> 00:46:58,901 - It's a horse. - Bend over? 1131 00:46:58,941 --> 00:46:59,981 Yeah, I'll show you what it does. 1132 00:47:00,021 --> 00:47:01,341 [Nathan chuckles] 1133 00:47:01,381 --> 00:47:02,741 I'll give you the suede one. 1134 00:47:02,781 --> 00:47:04,061 - Okay. - [whip slaps] 1135 00:47:04,101 --> 00:47:05,821 - Like that, yeah. - Alright. Okay. 1136 00:47:05,861 --> 00:47:07,341 You just have to bend over a little bit further 1137 00:47:07,381 --> 00:47:09,301 so you're a bit more vulnerable, yeah. 1138 00:47:09,341 --> 00:47:11,341 - Okay. - [both laughing] 1139 00:47:11,381 --> 00:47:13,221 See, that's the way it works. 1140 00:47:13,261 --> 00:47:15,381 And, look, as far as the levels of hardcore are concerned, 1141 00:47:15,421 --> 00:47:17,381 obviously, like, there's so much that goes on here, 1142 00:47:17,421 --> 00:47:19,741 and there must be such a wide variety 1143 00:47:19,781 --> 00:47:22,821 of customer requests, and what you guys do, 1144 00:47:22,861 --> 00:47:24,741 but what would you deem hardcore? 1145 00:47:24,781 --> 00:47:29,181 Severe caning would have to be one of my... 1146 00:47:29,221 --> 00:47:31,061 - the ones that make me cringe. - Yeah. 1147 00:47:31,101 --> 00:47:33,261 We do get clients that come in and they want 1148 00:47:33,301 --> 00:47:35,661 you to make them bleed with a cane, 1149 00:47:35,701 --> 00:47:38,061 and to hit them that hard with a cane is very... 1150 00:47:39,061 --> 00:47:41,221 It's not only tiring for you because your arms get sore, 1151 00:47:41,261 --> 00:47:43,821 but just the fact of watching them is tiring, 1152 00:47:43,861 --> 00:47:45,101 because you know how much it hurts 1153 00:47:45,141 --> 00:47:46,581 but they just love it. 1154 00:47:46,621 --> 00:47:49,181 Wow. So this one here looks quite severe. 1155 00:47:49,221 --> 00:47:52,221 Yeah, that one actually hurts a lot. [Chuckles] 1156 00:47:52,261 --> 00:47:55,061 Usually put that around the base of someone's 1157 00:47:55,101 --> 00:47:56,741 - dick and their balls. - Mm-hmm. 1158 00:47:57,661 --> 00:47:59,421 Put their dick through there, 1159 00:47:59,461 --> 00:48:02,861 and if you get hard it'll hurt a lot. 1160 00:48:02,901 --> 00:48:05,261 [Nathan] There was one thing that I'd always wanted to try, 1161 00:48:05,301 --> 00:48:08,141 and luckily Mistress Emmeline had one on hand. 1162 00:48:09,101 --> 00:48:10,661 Um, this is a gimp mask. 1163 00:48:10,701 --> 00:48:12,581 It's used by gimps. 1164 00:48:12,621 --> 00:48:15,421 It's a really good way of de-personalizing a slave 1165 00:48:15,461 --> 00:48:17,701 or a submissive. And so we'll give you a shot. 1166 00:48:18,901 --> 00:48:20,461 We'll see the difference. 1167 00:48:20,501 --> 00:48:21,541 [laughs] 1168 00:48:23,581 --> 00:48:26,461 [Nathan] It was not the most comfortable thing I'd ever worn 1169 00:48:26,501 --> 00:48:28,861 and very claustrophobic. 1170 00:48:28,901 --> 00:48:30,221 You know, if they talk too much you can 1171 00:48:30,261 --> 00:48:31,981 just get rid of them like that. 1172 00:48:32,821 --> 00:48:33,861 Can shut them up. 1173 00:48:34,701 --> 00:48:37,341 - [Nathan mumbles] - [Emmeline laughs] 1174 00:48:37,381 --> 00:48:40,621 We'll put the dildo in there. [Laughs] 1175 00:48:40,661 --> 00:48:42,461 [Nathan chuckles] 1176 00:48:42,501 --> 00:48:44,901 Yeah, now you panic. [Laughs] 1177 00:48:44,941 --> 00:48:46,821 [upbeat music] 1178 00:48:51,341 --> 00:48:55,301 From everything I've seen, Melbourne has an extensive and varied sex industry. 1179 00:48:55,341 --> 00:48:59,701 Is that a good thing? What are the benefits, if any, of legalized prostitution? 1180 00:48:59,741 --> 00:49:01,661 I'm here to talk with Project Respect, 1181 00:49:01,701 --> 00:49:05,261 a sex worker support organization, to find out their view. 1182 00:49:05,301 --> 00:49:08,461 Project Respect has outreach to women in the sex industry, 1183 00:49:08,501 --> 00:49:10,861 so we visit women in brothels, 1184 00:49:10,901 --> 00:49:14,141 - Right. - We also build up understanding and awareness 1185 00:49:14,181 --> 00:49:17,101 about trafficking with other women in the sex industry, 1186 00:49:17,141 --> 00:49:19,741 so, you know, women will tell us about trafficking 1187 00:49:19,781 --> 00:49:21,581 that they know of, and even brothel owners 1188 00:49:21,621 --> 00:49:23,061 might tell us about, you know, 1189 00:49:23,101 --> 00:49:25,341 trafficking in other, uh, brothels. 1190 00:49:25,381 --> 00:49:28,141 Approximately how many brothels do you know of that are operating in Melbourne? 1191 00:49:28,181 --> 00:49:32,861 There's 90 to 95 licensed brothels, 1192 00:49:32,901 --> 00:49:36,741 and I've heard 130 unlicensed brothels. 1193 00:49:36,781 --> 00:49:38,741 As far as women that are trafficked 1194 00:49:38,781 --> 00:49:40,301 to Melbourne for sex work. 1195 00:49:40,341 --> 00:49:41,981 We estimate that there's probably 1196 00:49:42,021 --> 00:49:44,421 300 women trafficked to Melbourne every year. 1197 00:49:44,461 --> 00:49:45,941 - Right. - We'd say about a thousand 1198 00:49:45,981 --> 00:49:48,421 women trafficked to Australia every year. 1199 00:49:48,461 --> 00:49:50,221 And where were they coming from? 1200 00:49:50,261 --> 00:49:52,061 They tend to come from Asia. 1201 00:49:52,101 --> 00:49:53,781 At the moment it seems like most women 1202 00:49:53,821 --> 00:49:55,941 are coming from South Korea, 1203 00:49:55,981 --> 00:49:58,381 but in the past, Thailand has been the place 1204 00:49:58,421 --> 00:49:59,861 where most women have come from, 1205 00:49:59,901 --> 00:50:02,621 with other women from Malaysia, China, 1206 00:50:02,661 --> 00:50:04,981 uh, the Philippines, Taiwan. 1207 00:50:05,021 --> 00:50:06,461 Do we know who brings them? 1208 00:50:06,501 --> 00:50:08,861 It seems to me that there's a link with 1209 00:50:08,901 --> 00:50:12,821 ethnic groups and kind of, I guess, ethnic based mafia, 1210 00:50:12,861 --> 00:50:16,621 um, but I think, you know, Australians are also, 1211 00:50:16,661 --> 00:50:20,541 certainly Australian citizens are involved in and exploiting women here. 1212 00:50:20,581 --> 00:50:23,741 Are these trafficked women working in these illegal brothels then? 1213 00:50:23,781 --> 00:50:27,621 No, trafficked women are kept in legal brothels. 1214 00:50:27,661 --> 00:50:29,101 - In legal? - Yes. 1215 00:50:29,141 --> 00:50:30,981 Wow, okay. 1216 00:50:31,021 --> 00:50:34,821 Every case that has been investigated and prosecuted 1217 00:50:34,861 --> 00:50:38,781 in Australia of trafficking, has involved trafficking into legal brothels, 1218 00:50:38,821 --> 00:50:41,581 and all the women who we know of were kept in legal brothels. 1219 00:50:41,621 --> 00:50:45,021 [Nathan] I really wanted to ask Nina about Club 417, 1220 00:50:45,061 --> 00:50:48,781 the most famous case of prosecuted sex trafficking in Melbourne. 1221 00:50:48,821 --> 00:50:50,381 So... 1222 00:50:50,421 --> 00:50:53,941 Club 417 is a brothel on Brunswick Street in Fitzroy 1223 00:50:53,981 --> 00:50:57,181 in the heart of our cafe strip. 1224 00:50:57,221 --> 00:50:59,861 Um, it's a pretty nondescript little place, you walk past it, 1225 00:50:59,901 --> 00:51:01,741 you probably think that it's just, you know, 1226 00:51:01,781 --> 00:51:04,581 an empty shop, but it's a brothel. 1227 00:51:04,621 --> 00:51:08,501 And in 2003, the police did a raid 1228 00:51:08,541 --> 00:51:12,021 and they found five trafficked women in there. 1229 00:51:12,061 --> 00:51:14,301 They charged the brothel owner Wei Tang 1230 00:51:14,341 --> 00:51:16,541 and her manager Paul Pick 1231 00:51:16,581 --> 00:51:19,101 with possessing and using slaves. 1232 00:51:19,141 --> 00:51:21,741 They were told that they owed her debts of 1233 00:51:21,781 --> 00:51:25,781 between 45 and 90 thousand dollars 1234 00:51:25,821 --> 00:51:27,341 which they had to pay off by doing 1235 00:51:27,381 --> 00:51:28,901 prostitution in her brothel. 1236 00:51:28,941 --> 00:51:31,861 They paid it off within a few months, 1237 00:51:31,901 --> 00:51:35,261 and it means that they were doing 1238 00:51:35,301 --> 00:51:38,021 about ten clients a night, 1239 00:51:38,061 --> 00:51:41,981 every single night for three months. 1240 00:51:42,021 --> 00:51:46,541 Which in itself is an incredible, 1241 00:51:46,581 --> 00:51:48,221 you know, toll on your body. 1242 00:51:48,261 --> 00:51:50,661 It was about 800 or 900 men 1243 00:51:50,701 --> 00:51:51,821 that each of the women did 1244 00:51:51,861 --> 00:51:54,701 before they paid off the debt. 1245 00:51:54,741 --> 00:51:56,821 And again, it's one of those things 1246 00:51:56,861 --> 00:51:58,581 that if you really think about it... 1247 00:52:00,141 --> 00:52:02,821 it's... I don't think that anyone can fail 1248 00:52:02,861 --> 00:52:07,261 to understand how corrosive and degrading 1249 00:52:07,301 --> 00:52:09,221 the experience of being trafficked is. 1250 00:52:09,261 --> 00:52:11,901 [Nathan] That led to the question, did Nina think there 1251 00:52:11,941 --> 00:52:16,301 was a difference between legal prostitution and illegal sex trafficking? 1252 00:52:16,341 --> 00:52:19,221 Having legal brothels in Victoria, 1253 00:52:19,261 --> 00:52:22,181 I think can make it easier to hide trafficked women, 1254 00:52:22,221 --> 00:52:24,461 because there is an assumption that brothels 1255 00:52:24,501 --> 00:52:26,821 are safe if they are regulated, 1256 00:52:26,861 --> 00:52:29,261 that they're, you know, that they're following 1257 00:52:29,301 --> 00:52:30,541 laws and regulations. 1258 00:52:30,581 --> 00:52:32,101 But really, what... 1259 00:52:33,861 --> 00:52:36,901 What shapes whether or not we have trafficked women, 1260 00:52:36,941 --> 00:52:40,341 is whether or not we accept prostitution at all. 1261 00:52:40,381 --> 00:52:43,781 Project Respect is adamant about the harms and costs of prostitution, 1262 00:52:43,821 --> 00:52:45,221 legal or otherwise. 1263 00:52:45,261 --> 00:52:46,821 So in order to get another opinion, 1264 00:52:46,861 --> 00:52:48,941 I've been invited to a rally for abortion rights 1265 00:52:48,981 --> 00:52:52,141 by the president of this trans sex party, Fiona Patten. 1266 00:52:52,181 --> 00:52:55,741 On a very wet, cold, rainy, Melbourne day, 1267 00:52:55,781 --> 00:52:58,941 um, we're out showing our support for 1268 00:52:58,981 --> 00:53:01,461 the abortion clinic behind us. 1269 00:53:01,501 --> 00:53:03,821 Yeah. -[Fiona] Every third Saturday, a group of, 1270 00:53:03,861 --> 00:53:04,941 I can't remember what they're called, 1271 00:53:04,981 --> 00:53:06,581 something with the Virgin Mary, 1272 00:53:06,621 --> 00:53:10,261 come and pray, and harass some of the clients 1273 00:53:10,301 --> 00:53:12,941 who come to this clinic, um, during the day, 1274 00:53:12,981 --> 00:53:15,741 - [Nathan] Right. - And we're here to show our support for the clinic. 1275 00:53:15,781 --> 00:53:18,541 It's so important that women have that right to choose, 1276 00:53:18,581 --> 00:53:20,941 and I... you know, we've seen that 1277 00:53:20,981 --> 00:53:23,581 when women don't have control of their reproductive rights, 1278 00:53:23,621 --> 00:53:25,061 they take it into their own hands, 1279 00:53:25,101 --> 00:53:27,061 and we see backyard abortions setting up, 1280 00:53:27,101 --> 00:53:30,581 and we see very, you know, unsafe practices. 1281 00:53:30,621 --> 00:53:32,181 Frankly, you know, it would be great if we had 1282 00:53:32,221 --> 00:53:34,141 really good sex education, 1283 00:53:34,181 --> 00:53:35,901 and that would probably mean that we would have 1284 00:53:35,941 --> 00:53:37,621 less abortions in this country. 1285 00:53:37,661 --> 00:53:40,221 But they... it needs to remain legal and safe. 1286 00:53:40,261 --> 00:53:41,821 [Nathan] So, more money in education? 1287 00:53:41,861 --> 00:53:43,901 [Fiona] More sex education would definitely mean 1288 00:53:43,941 --> 00:53:45,621 less unwanted pregnancies. 1289 00:53:45,661 --> 00:53:47,621 [Nathan] I also wanted to ask Fiona's opinion 1290 00:53:47,661 --> 00:53:50,141 about legalized prostitution in Melbourne. 1291 00:53:50,181 --> 00:53:53,861 I am all in favor for sex workers 1292 00:53:53,901 --> 00:53:55,621 to be able to work legally and safely. 1293 00:53:55,661 --> 00:53:58,061 [crowd chants] - Um, but I would probably support 1294 00:53:58,101 --> 00:54:01,141 a decriminalized system rather than legalization, 1295 00:54:01,181 --> 00:54:03,901 which is about treating the sex industry 1296 00:54:03,941 --> 00:54:05,501 as any other business. 1297 00:54:05,541 --> 00:54:07,981 So, whether you're a hairdresser or a sex worker, 1298 00:54:08,021 --> 00:54:10,101 you have the same rights and responsibilities. 1299 00:54:10,141 --> 00:54:13,021 What's your take on the number of legalized brothels 1300 00:54:13,061 --> 00:54:14,821 that are actually here in Melbourne? 1301 00:54:14,861 --> 00:54:16,941 Unfortunately, it's, it's actually 1302 00:54:16,981 --> 00:54:18,901 probably over regulated here. 1303 00:54:18,941 --> 00:54:21,221 And it was sort of, when they introduced the laws, 1304 00:54:21,261 --> 00:54:23,101 it was like, "Well, you know, we want to" 1305 00:54:23,141 --> 00:54:25,381 protect the workers, but we don't want to be seen 1306 00:54:25,421 --> 00:54:27,101 "to condone the industry." 1307 00:54:27,141 --> 00:54:29,501 So they set up very draconian laws, 1308 00:54:29,541 --> 00:54:30,941 which means that probably 1309 00:54:30,981 --> 00:54:33,061 two thirds of the industry in Melbourne 1310 00:54:33,101 --> 00:54:34,981 work... it operates illegally. 1311 00:54:35,021 --> 00:54:37,021 So, for every one legal brothel, 1312 00:54:37,061 --> 00:54:39,901 you have two or three illegal brothels operating. 1313 00:54:39,941 --> 00:54:43,061 Uh, I certainly think a system 1314 00:54:43,101 --> 00:54:45,661 where brothels can operate legally, 1315 00:54:45,701 --> 00:54:48,381 and we have good health and safety codes, 1316 00:54:48,421 --> 00:54:52,901 and women can work without fear of, you know, exploitation 1317 00:54:52,941 --> 00:54:57,221 is a very good path. And Melbourne has gone some way to it, 1318 00:54:57,261 --> 00:54:58,981 but, you know, it could be better. 1319 00:54:59,021 --> 00:55:01,381 [Nathan] Do you believe that legalized prostitution 1320 00:55:01,421 --> 00:55:03,141 discourages trafficking? 1321 00:55:03,181 --> 00:55:06,861 I certainly do when it's well-managed and well run. 1322 00:55:06,901 --> 00:55:09,741 So, as I was saying before, I actually think 1323 00:55:09,781 --> 00:55:12,981 with a legalized system, we should actually enable 1324 00:55:13,021 --> 00:55:14,861 workers from other countries to work here 1325 00:55:14,901 --> 00:55:17,381 safely and legally. And that, I think 1326 00:55:17,421 --> 00:55:19,061 could be done through a visa system. 1327 00:55:19,101 --> 00:55:21,421 So, when you do have a legal system 1328 00:55:21,461 --> 00:55:23,421 where they're not having to work underground 1329 00:55:23,461 --> 00:55:25,901 and hidden away, you can control 1330 00:55:25,941 --> 00:55:28,301 and police the industry far more easily. 1331 00:55:28,341 --> 00:55:30,301 [Nathan] That led me to my final question, 1332 00:55:30,341 --> 00:55:32,541 which was whether Melbourne was becoming more liberal 1333 00:55:32,581 --> 00:55:34,901 or conservative in its approach to sex? 1334 00:55:34,941 --> 00:55:37,261 Well, thankfully, I think Australians 1335 00:55:37,301 --> 00:55:39,621 are becoming far more liberal in their approach, 1336 00:55:39,661 --> 00:55:43,061 and you can only see that like, in the statistics about who supports gay marriage 1337 00:55:43,101 --> 00:55:47,021 or, you know, is opposed to Internet censorship. 1338 00:55:47,061 --> 00:55:48,701 But unfortunately, 1339 00:55:48,741 --> 00:55:51,861 our politicians are going the opposite direction, 1340 00:55:51,901 --> 00:55:53,981 and I think they, they tend to listen 1341 00:55:54,021 --> 00:55:57,821 to small minority groups like the people across the street, 1342 00:55:57,861 --> 00:56:01,541 um, and kowtow to them rather than listening to the majority. 1343 00:56:01,581 --> 00:56:03,581 - Thank you so much for your time. - Thanks, Nathan. 1344 00:56:03,621 --> 00:56:04,981 - It's been a pleasure. - Thank you, likewise. 1345 00:56:05,021 --> 00:56:06,381 Thank you, Fiona. 1346 00:56:06,421 --> 00:56:08,341 [upbeat music] 1347 00:56:12,821 --> 00:56:14,181 [Nathan] It's my last few hours in Melbourne, 1348 00:56:14,221 --> 00:56:15,581 I've finally had a chance to sample 1349 00:56:15,621 --> 00:56:18,101 some of its much celebrated coffee. 1350 00:56:18,141 --> 00:56:19,981 The city is modern and cosmopolitan. 1351 00:56:20,021 --> 00:56:21,501 It has impressive skyscrapers 1352 00:56:21,541 --> 00:56:23,181 and expensive restaurants. 1353 00:56:23,221 --> 00:56:25,421 I've seen all aspects of its sexual culture 1354 00:56:25,461 --> 00:56:27,061 and it's been a real eye-opener. 1355 00:56:27,101 --> 00:56:29,541 There's a history of liberal sexual attitude here, 1356 00:56:29,581 --> 00:56:31,221 but there's clearly a debate 1357 00:56:31,261 --> 00:56:32,581 between those who want more freedom 1358 00:56:32,621 --> 00:56:34,421 and those who want to restrict it. 1359 00:56:34,461 --> 00:56:36,301 And although the sex industry, legal and illegal, 1360 00:56:36,341 --> 00:56:38,381 is all around them, Melburnians seem to go about 1361 00:56:38,421 --> 00:56:41,221 their daily lives without giving it a second glance. 1362 00:56:41,261 --> 00:56:42,541 For those involved, however, 1363 00:56:42,581 --> 00:56:44,421 it can be lucrative, exhilarating, 1364 00:56:44,461 --> 00:56:46,221 and dangerous to both body and mind. 1365 00:56:46,261 --> 00:56:47,741 It's been a fascinating journey, 1366 00:56:47,781 --> 00:56:49,021 and I'm glad I've had the opportunity 1367 00:56:49,061 --> 00:56:50,901 to experience such a unique city 1368 00:56:50,941 --> 00:56:53,021 with its own distinctive culture. 1369 00:56:53,061 --> 00:56:55,021 For now though, it's time to leave. 1370 00:56:55,061 --> 00:56:56,901 [upbeat music] 1371 00:57:24,061 --> 00:57:26,621 [theme music]