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1
00:00:29,408 --> 00:00:30,789
My name is Dave Paulides

2
00:00:30,823 --> 00:00:32,549
and I'm a former
police detective

3
00:00:32,584 --> 00:00:33,964
and current
investigative author

4
00:00:33,999 --> 00:00:36,933
focused primarily
on mysterious disappearances

5
00:00:36,967 --> 00:00:38,762
in the North American
wilderness.

6
00:00:43,284 --> 00:00:45,114
Melvin!

7
00:00:45,148 --> 00:00:48,531
My journey into the disappearances
began when I was visiting a national park

8
00:00:48,565 --> 00:00:52,362
and was approached by two park
rangers who knew I was an author.

9
00:00:52,397 --> 00:00:57,402
They described strange circumstances
over the years involving missing hikers.

10
00:00:57,436 --> 00:01:00,405
I immediately began looking
into the phenomenon.

11
00:01:00,439 --> 00:01:02,062
Eight years
and eight books later,

12
00:01:02,096 --> 00:01:05,237
I've now researched 1200
cases that fit the profile

13
00:01:05,272 --> 00:01:08,068
we are about to examine.

14
00:01:08,102 --> 00:01:11,588
While these cases involve people
of all ages and all walks of life,

15
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I've chosen to present some
of the most intriguing cases

16
00:01:14,315 --> 00:01:15,972
involving hunters.

17
00:01:16,006 --> 00:01:19,389
Generally speaking,
hunters are very experienced,

18
00:01:19,424 --> 00:01:22,461
aware, and knowledgeable
outdoorsmen.

19
00:01:23,290 --> 00:01:25,775
And so, when one vanishes,

20
00:01:25,809 --> 00:01:27,949
you know something unusual
has occurred.

21
00:01:41,963 --> 00:01:44,414
One of the most perplexing
cases I've examined

22
00:01:44,449 --> 00:01:47,176
involves a hunter named
Thomas Messick,

23
00:01:47,210 --> 00:01:51,490
who in 2015, went missing
in North-East New York.

24
00:01:58,566 --> 00:01:59,809
For people
who don't know,

25
00:01:59,843 --> 00:02:03,295
the FBI doesn't investigate
missing adults.

26
00:02:03,330 --> 00:02:07,679
There's a sub-category for the
FBI, that they can become involved

27
00:02:07,713 --> 00:02:10,164
in the disappearance
of extremely young children

28
00:02:10,199 --> 00:02:11,890
under a certain set of criteria.

29
00:02:13,478 --> 00:02:17,137
So, the million dollar question
is, why would the FBI arrive

30
00:02:17,171 --> 00:02:18,724
on Tom Messick's case?

31
00:02:37,674 --> 00:02:41,644
He loved the outdoors.
He loved being in the woods.

32
00:02:41,678 --> 00:02:43,956
Hunting and fishing
was his life.

33
00:02:51,516 --> 00:02:52,896
You want a cookie, honey?

34
00:02:57,453 --> 00:03:00,939
He was a very good
husband, very good father.

35
00:03:02,354 --> 00:03:05,564
And I don't think
you will find anybody

36
00:03:06,427 --> 00:03:08,705
who ever met him
who didn't like him.

37
00:03:09,879 --> 00:03:11,536
And how many kids
did you guys have?

38
00:03:11,570 --> 00:03:13,400
We had three sons.

39
00:03:13,434 --> 00:03:15,747
Tommy, Jean, and Rob.

40
00:03:17,576 --> 00:03:20,234
So, tell me about your dad.
What kind of guy was he?

41
00:03:20,269 --> 00:03:25,135
He was kinda, "Do what you got
to go to get things done."

42
00:03:25,170 --> 00:03:28,208
Never had a contractor in the house.
We always did everything.

43
00:03:28,242 --> 00:03:29,554
You name it.

44
00:03:29,588 --> 00:03:31,970
We lifted the house up,
put a foundation under it.

45
00:03:32,004 --> 00:03:33,696
When I was digging it out,
I looked up at him,

46
00:03:33,730 --> 00:03:35,145
he had a cup of coffee
in his hand

47
00:03:35,180 --> 00:03:36,595
and I said,
"Why don't we get a backhoe?"

48
00:03:36,630 --> 00:03:38,252
And he said,
"I have one, right there."

49
00:03:40,081 --> 00:03:42,429
What did you guys like to do
as a family?

50
00:03:42,463 --> 00:03:45,880
We camped.
We did a lot of camping.

51
00:03:45,915 --> 00:03:48,883
And the boys loved it
and, you know,

52
00:03:48,918 --> 00:03:52,232
I was kind of the outsider
because they were boys

53
00:03:52,266 --> 00:03:56,166
and they hunted and fished
and did those things.

54
00:03:58,514 --> 00:04:01,724
I knew Tom
before we earned enough

55
00:04:01,758 --> 00:04:03,829
'cause he used
to work in Norton with me.

56
00:04:05,175 --> 00:04:08,972
I knew him probably about 55
years or somewhere around there.

57
00:04:09,007 --> 00:04:10,767
What did you guys like
to do together?

58
00:04:12,217 --> 00:04:13,667
Hunt. Hunt and fish.

59
00:04:13,701 --> 00:04:15,634
It's what we did
all the time, really.

60
00:04:20,190 --> 00:04:21,951
Yeah, we both had trailers

61
00:04:21,985 --> 00:04:26,127
in which we used to go trailing
all the time, come to think of it.

62
00:04:26,162 --> 00:04:28,268
We all got
the same vacation in Norton,

63
00:04:28,302 --> 00:04:33,928
so we all took off and went
to different places like that.

64
00:04:33,963 --> 00:04:37,277
So, what was your introduction
to the outdoors?

65
00:04:37,311 --> 00:04:41,867
It was always there because my
father always hunted and fished.

66
00:04:41,902 --> 00:04:46,596
We got a camp up North,
not far from Brant Lake,

67
00:04:46,631 --> 00:04:48,805
for about a week every year.

68
00:04:48,840 --> 00:04:50,807
A bunch of guys get together
and go hunting.

69
00:05:00,990 --> 00:05:03,889
He taught hunter
training for a long time.

70
00:05:03,924 --> 00:05:08,308
He probably taught every one
of the kids around here.

71
00:05:08,342 --> 00:05:12,001
Tom was a great guy.
He was an old airborne Ranger.

72
00:05:12,035 --> 00:05:14,831
He was unbelievable
in the woods.

73
00:05:14,866 --> 00:05:17,662
He taught my hunting class for
me to get my hunting license.

74
00:05:17,696 --> 00:05:19,249
He taught survival.

75
00:05:19,284 --> 00:05:21,804
He had gunpowder
blow up in his face,

76
00:05:21,838 --> 00:05:23,012
and that's how he lost...

77
00:05:23,046 --> 00:05:26,740
He had a 159 stitches
in his hand

78
00:05:26,774 --> 00:05:28,845
and he lost his eye that way.

79
00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:30,709
So, he would say to these kids,

80
00:05:30,744 --> 00:05:33,229
"This is what happens
if you're not careful."

81
00:05:33,263 --> 00:05:35,196
I mean, he had a lot of issues
over the years,

82
00:05:35,231 --> 00:05:39,028
but it never really seemed
to slow him down or anything.

83
00:05:39,787 --> 00:05:42,031
So, obviously, he had one eye.

84
00:05:42,065 --> 00:05:43,170
Yeah.

85
00:05:43,204 --> 00:05:45,068
He was sort of blind,
it wasn't really that great,

86
00:05:45,103 --> 00:05:46,932
but he could actually see
out of it.

87
00:05:46,967 --> 00:05:48,520
And hearing was an issue?

88
00:05:48,555 --> 00:05:49,763
He wasn't
that great with hearing.

89
00:05:49,797 --> 00:05:51,937
Hearing,
he needed hearing aids.

90
00:05:51,972 --> 00:05:55,182
Would Tom be the kind of guy
who would drink a lot or...

91
00:05:55,216 --> 00:05:58,668
No. He didn't drink
that much, no.

92
00:05:58,703 --> 00:06:01,982
So, the day when you guys went hunting,
did you guys drink when you hunt?

93
00:06:02,534 --> 00:06:04,294
No.

94
00:06:04,329 --> 00:06:07,401
We might have beer
with us in the truck.

95
00:06:07,436 --> 00:06:11,750
Out in the woods, we might have
a beer or something like that.

96
00:06:11,785 --> 00:06:14,304
Nothing excessive, you know?

97
00:06:14,339 --> 00:06:17,307
How would you describe
your dad's judgment?

98
00:06:18,136 --> 00:06:19,931
It was good.

99
00:06:19,965 --> 00:06:23,797
In fact,
it was probably one of his better days

100
00:06:23,831 --> 00:06:24,936
I had seen in a long time.

101
00:06:24,970 --> 00:06:28,457
He was in good spirits
and moving great.

102
00:06:28,491 --> 00:06:32,253
Didn't seem to even have an
ache or pain in him that day.

103
00:06:32,288 --> 00:06:33,358
He was moving good.

104
00:06:42,263 --> 00:06:43,817
How often
do you think about it?

105
00:06:44,852 --> 00:06:46,923
I just think about it, well...

106
00:06:46,958 --> 00:06:50,099
You know,
it always pops into your mind.

107
00:06:54,483 --> 00:06:56,416
We were doing
just kind of a quick thing.

108
00:06:57,486 --> 00:06:59,108
It was late actually.

109
00:06:59,142 --> 00:07:03,077
Almost lunchtime by the time
we ended up going up there.

110
00:07:03,112 --> 00:07:05,597
Kind of just a two-hour thing
until evening

111
00:07:05,632 --> 00:07:09,118
and we were going to go back to camp
and hunt around the camp until dark.

112
00:07:15,055 --> 00:07:16,574
How many guys
went up there that day?

113
00:07:16,608 --> 00:07:18,576
Seven.

114
00:07:18,610 --> 00:07:21,613
Someone made the decision
to hunt over by Brant Lake.

115
00:07:21,648 --> 00:07:22,580
Who made that decision?

116
00:07:22,614 --> 00:07:24,444
I did.

117
00:07:24,478 --> 00:07:27,205
I messaged that we
had state land there.

118
00:07:27,239 --> 00:07:30,484
We kind of agreed to hunt it.
The roads of Lily Pond.

119
00:07:42,979 --> 00:07:45,050
I mean, we go up that road,
straight to the lake

120
00:07:45,085 --> 00:07:47,708
and we parked
right at the lake.

121
00:07:47,743 --> 00:07:51,712
And the old guys literally
walked down that road

122
00:07:51,747 --> 00:07:53,231
in hundred yard increments.

123
00:07:58,063 --> 00:08:02,827
We walked in 30, 40 yards
at the most and sat down.

124
00:08:11,076 --> 00:08:12,837
Al was the first watcher.

125
00:08:12,871 --> 00:08:14,252
I was the second.

126
00:08:14,942 --> 00:08:17,255
Joe Capacelli, and then Tom.

127
00:08:18,187 --> 00:08:19,878
So, Tom was furthest
from the lake?

128
00:08:19,913 --> 00:08:21,880
He was the furthest one.

129
00:08:21,915 --> 00:08:24,055
We followed the trail along
the lake,

130
00:08:24,089 --> 00:08:26,160
come up that snowmobile trail,

131
00:08:26,195 --> 00:08:28,335
hopped into the woods,
and swung up to him.

132
00:08:28,369 --> 00:08:31,027
A slow
hunt-and-drive type thing.

133
00:08:32,477 --> 00:08:35,445
The young boys said
to the old men,

134
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"You four sit here,

135
00:08:37,275 --> 00:08:40,865
and if we see any deer,
we'll push them towards you."

136
00:08:40,899 --> 00:08:44,593
And if Tom was a watcher,
Tom would not have moved.

137
00:08:44,627 --> 00:08:46,698
I know that for a fact.

138
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He was a watcher,
that's where he was.

139
00:09:03,128 --> 00:09:05,717
- Did you see any deer?
- None at all.

140
00:09:05,752 --> 00:09:08,582
- No.
- Did you hear anything?

141
00:09:08,617 --> 00:09:13,104
I heard a strange noise in the
woods, but I don't know what it was.

142
00:09:13,138 --> 00:09:16,935
Just a different noise from what
I usually hear, you know?

143
00:09:16,970 --> 00:09:18,178
Like what?

144
00:09:19,904 --> 00:09:22,044
It'd be hard
to explain because...

145
00:09:22,078 --> 00:09:23,390
But it was different.

146
00:09:23,424 --> 00:09:26,427
Something different that I never
heard before in the woods.

147
00:09:28,153 --> 00:09:30,466
I just can't say what it was,
you know?

148
00:09:30,500 --> 00:09:33,607
How long in duration was it?
Was it two or three seconds?

149
00:09:33,642 --> 00:09:35,575
No, it's just...

150
00:09:35,609 --> 00:09:36,921
Whatever it is, you know?

151
00:09:38,267 --> 00:09:40,234
How far away was it?

152
00:09:40,269 --> 00:09:44,307
I'd say it was probably 150
yards, something like that.

153
00:09:44,342 --> 00:09:46,344
Was it toward Tom,
or away from Tom?

154
00:09:46,378 --> 00:09:49,899
This was up towards the hill.
The top of the hill. Yeah.

155
00:09:49,934 --> 00:09:51,521
Did you tell
the cops this?

156
00:09:51,556 --> 00:09:52,453
Yeah, I told them that.

157
00:09:52,488 --> 00:09:55,215
But they just passed it off,
you know?

158
00:09:58,770 --> 00:10:01,739
The report said that your
dad was carrying a walkie-talkie?

159
00:10:01,773 --> 00:10:03,603
- Yeah.
- Who else had one?

160
00:10:03,637 --> 00:10:04,673
We all did.

161
00:10:04,707 --> 00:10:06,813
- All on the same channel?
- Yup.

162
00:10:06,847 --> 00:10:08,504
- Anybody ever hear anything?
- No.

163
00:10:10,299 --> 00:10:11,645
Did your dad know
how to use it?

164
00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:12,612
Yep.

165
00:10:24,589 --> 00:10:26,936
Tom? Tom, you around?

166
00:10:26,971 --> 00:10:30,664
It's one of those things where,
you know, he should have been out by now.

167
00:10:30,699 --> 00:10:32,045
We called and called.

168
00:10:32,079 --> 00:10:34,841
You know, he should have been
sitting on the watch.

169
00:10:34,875 --> 00:10:36,463
Can you hear me?
Holler back.

170
00:10:36,497 --> 00:10:38,499
And then we went
and started looking for him.

171
00:10:44,367 --> 00:10:45,679
Anybody fire any shots?

172
00:10:45,714 --> 00:10:47,992
Yep, we fired shots.

173
00:10:55,206 --> 00:10:57,795
Somebody went down
and called the rangers,

174
00:10:57,829 --> 00:10:59,348
and then, we just kept looking.

175
00:11:02,869 --> 00:11:04,180
Tom!

176
00:11:15,847 --> 00:11:19,506
They stayed overnight at the
truck, beeping the horn.

177
00:11:19,540 --> 00:11:22,233
I heard shots,
different things.

178
00:11:25,754 --> 00:11:29,274
Robbie called me
that night and said,

179
00:11:29,309 --> 00:11:31,725
"Daddy's missing in the
woods, but don't worry,

180
00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:32,761
we'll find him."

181
00:11:39,422 --> 00:11:41,114
And I said, "I'm coming up."

182
00:11:43,012 --> 00:11:46,878
And he said, "No, don't come up.
I'm sure we're going to find him

183
00:11:46,913 --> 00:11:48,500
and I'll call you."

184
00:11:56,577 --> 00:11:58,303
The community is
very close-knit,

185
00:11:58,338 --> 00:12:00,271
everybody has
pretty much grown up together

186
00:12:00,305 --> 00:12:02,066
and knows everybody.

187
00:12:08,279 --> 00:12:09,659
It's mountainous,
we have lakes,

188
00:12:09,694 --> 00:12:12,490
we've got lots of opportunities
to enjoy yourself.

189
00:12:12,524 --> 00:12:14,078
There's not
a lot of pressure here.

190
00:12:15,907 --> 00:12:17,115
I came into work
one morning

191
00:12:17,150 --> 00:12:20,498
and I noticed
a State Police helicopter

192
00:12:20,532 --> 00:12:23,881
had landed in our ball field,
right here behind the town hall.

193
00:12:23,915 --> 00:12:26,746
And then, I could see
some rangers

194
00:12:26,780 --> 00:12:28,575
ranging in our parking lot.

195
00:12:28,609 --> 00:12:31,889
Their vehicles and
different apparatus and...

196
00:12:31,923 --> 00:12:33,476
I questioned what was going on

197
00:12:33,511 --> 00:12:36,100
and they said there was a
hunter that had been missing.

198
00:12:50,114 --> 00:12:51,909
We did note that
when we were up there,

199
00:12:51,943 --> 00:12:53,807
it seemed to be
devoid of wildlife.

200
00:12:53,842 --> 00:12:57,466
You know, we didn't see
squirrels, chipmunks, deer...

201
00:12:58,743 --> 00:13:00,089
or any signs of them.

202
00:13:00,124 --> 00:13:02,298
How unusual is that
for your mountains out here?

203
00:13:03,817 --> 00:13:05,681
I thought it was strange.

204
00:13:05,715 --> 00:13:08,788
Like I said, we didn't see signs
of anything out there.

205
00:13:08,822 --> 00:13:10,790
How many people
did Warren County commit?

206
00:13:10,824 --> 00:13:13,206
We had our Emergency Response
Team up there,

207
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,691
which is comprised
of 13 team members.

208
00:13:15,725 --> 00:13:18,280
So, when you heard
about it, what did you do?

209
00:13:18,314 --> 00:13:20,834
Go up there and join the search.

210
00:13:20,869 --> 00:13:22,387
I figured it would be...

211
00:13:22,422 --> 00:13:25,425
We'd go up there and we'd find
him and it'd be over, you know?

212
00:13:26,771 --> 00:13:30,188
The Air National Guard
was going over with infrared.

213
00:13:30,223 --> 00:13:33,502
State Police had helicopters
with a guy out.

214
00:13:33,536 --> 00:13:35,642
We walked through the woods,
no matter how thick they were.

215
00:13:35,676 --> 00:13:37,886
You had to see the other
guy's ankle.

216
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,820
We went through some terrain
you just wouldn't believe,

217
00:13:40,854 --> 00:13:42,476
swamps up to your chest,

218
00:13:42,511 --> 00:13:43,892
and we covered every bit of it.

219
00:13:46,756 --> 00:13:51,554
They were thinking, maybe he
got to a road and got hit by a car.

220
00:13:51,589 --> 00:13:54,695
And so, they checked on
the sides of the roads

221
00:13:54,730 --> 00:13:56,663
and never found anything.

222
00:13:56,697 --> 00:14:00,425
The first couple of days, I thought
for sure we're going to find him.

223
00:14:01,944 --> 00:14:05,189
After about the third or fourth,
I said, "Boy, this ain't good."

224
00:14:07,708 --> 00:14:10,780
A mile out, we were
still me to you away.

225
00:14:10,815 --> 00:14:13,162
Walking through the woods,
you'd trip over somebody,

226
00:14:13,197 --> 00:14:15,440
nevermind not see him.

227
00:14:15,475 --> 00:14:17,511
We would have what they call
"bump lines."

228
00:14:17,546 --> 00:14:20,860
Lines that they would
run through the forest

229
00:14:20,894 --> 00:14:23,586
and we knew that was like a
start and a stop.

230
00:14:23,621 --> 00:14:25,588
Guy in the end had
a roll of string

231
00:14:25,623 --> 00:14:27,936
and would tie it to a tree
and just keep walking.

232
00:14:27,970 --> 00:14:29,765
And when we're done with that
grid, they'd tie it off

233
00:14:29,799 --> 00:14:31,767
and then everybody would
shift to the other side

234
00:14:32,561 --> 00:14:34,218
and walk back.

235
00:14:34,252 --> 00:14:36,876
And so you know between this
string line and this string line

236
00:14:36,910 --> 00:14:38,360
and between your bump lines,

237
00:14:38,394 --> 00:14:40,465
that area has been covered.

238
00:14:40,500 --> 00:14:42,882
And few days later, we were back
to the same barriers

239
00:14:42,916 --> 00:14:44,538
and did them the other way.

240
00:14:44,573 --> 00:14:48,439
I mean, we covered every
inch of ground up there.

241
00:14:48,473 --> 00:14:51,614
The immediate area
looked like a spider web,

242
00:14:51,649 --> 00:14:55,377
because not only did they
go this way or this way,

243
00:14:55,411 --> 00:14:56,896
and they went that way.

244
00:14:56,930 --> 00:14:58,380
So, there was string everywhere.

245
00:14:58,414 --> 00:15:01,348
They had 300 people
in there one day.

246
00:15:02,073 --> 00:15:03,626
People asked who he was.

247
00:15:03,661 --> 00:15:05,766
If he was a governor's
brother, or something.

248
00:15:06,422 --> 00:15:07,665
It was incredible.

249
00:15:09,425 --> 00:15:12,912
How many jurisdictions do
you think responded to this search?

250
00:15:12,946 --> 00:15:17,054
There was probably a dozen
or so volunteer fire departments

251
00:15:17,088 --> 00:15:18,469
that had members here.

252
00:15:18,503 --> 00:15:23,232
Probably 50 or 60 altogether
in different organizations.

253
00:15:23,267 --> 00:15:25,510
- That's huge.
- Yeah.

254
00:15:25,545 --> 00:15:29,307
New York State Corrections came out
and they searched with their dogs.

255
00:15:29,342 --> 00:15:32,586
There were tonnes of volunteer
search and rescue teams

256
00:15:32,621 --> 00:15:34,588
that came out
with their K-9 units.

257
00:15:34,623 --> 00:15:37,867
I mean, they... For a little
while, but not for very long.

258
00:15:37,902 --> 00:15:40,940
Day two that we were involved
in the search up there,

259
00:15:40,974 --> 00:15:43,183
it rained heavily all day.

260
00:15:43,218 --> 00:15:46,946
Obviously, an animal didn't get to
him, because there'd be a big scatter.

261
00:15:46,980 --> 00:15:49,431
There'd be a huge, you know...
His clothes would be ripped up,

262
00:15:49,465 --> 00:15:51,467
his stuff would spread be all
over. He'd be easy to find.

263
00:15:55,540 --> 00:15:57,991
Not even
a candy wrapper.

264
00:15:58,026 --> 00:16:00,960
Not that my husband would throw
out a candy wrapper,

265
00:16:00,994 --> 00:16:02,133
'cause he wouldn't.

266
00:16:02,168 --> 00:16:03,583
That would be in his pocket.

267
00:16:04,135 --> 00:16:05,516
But, nothing.

268
00:16:05,550 --> 00:16:08,105
Not the walkie-talkie,
not his gun.

269
00:16:08,139 --> 00:16:10,314
They never found anything.

270
00:16:10,348 --> 00:16:12,178
You would think that
you'd find some trace

271
00:16:12,212 --> 00:16:13,973
of somebody who was there,

272
00:16:14,007 --> 00:16:14,974
especially a weapon,

273
00:16:15,008 --> 00:16:17,390
because a weapon
is not going to disappear.

274
00:16:17,424 --> 00:16:18,667
It's not going to blow away.

275
00:16:24,052 --> 00:16:28,504
The FBI, according to their protocol,
doesn't search for missing people.

276
00:16:28,539 --> 00:16:30,886
So, do you understand
why they were there?

277
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:32,439
I remember they were there.

278
00:16:32,474 --> 00:16:35,718
I thought they were there to provide
some sort of technological support,

279
00:16:35,753 --> 00:16:39,343
but I didn't have
any contact with them myself.

280
00:16:39,377 --> 00:16:41,345
Have you ever had them
on a search that you've done?

281
00:16:41,724 --> 00:16:42,829
No.

282
00:16:42,863 --> 00:16:46,039
You had a conversation
with the FBI, up in Horicon.

283
00:16:46,626 --> 00:16:47,903
What did they tell you?

284
00:16:48,869 --> 00:16:50,250
They said that...

285
00:16:50,285 --> 00:16:52,701
Basically, they were there
to tell me that

286
00:16:52,735 --> 00:16:56,843
he now is considered
a missing person.

287
00:16:56,877 --> 00:17:02,228
And they felt that something
was definitely not right,

288
00:17:02,262 --> 00:17:04,851
but unless and until

289
00:17:04,885 --> 00:17:08,027
they made a recovery,
they wouldn't know what it was.

290
00:17:08,061 --> 00:17:11,444
That was it.
That's basically what they said.

291
00:17:14,309 --> 00:17:16,518
In the middle
of the Adirondacks

292
00:17:16,552 --> 00:17:19,072
where an elderly man disappears,

293
00:17:20,004 --> 00:17:22,558
two agents suddenly show up.

294
00:17:23,801 --> 00:17:26,459
They made their way up
to Lily Pond Road

295
00:17:26,493 --> 00:17:30,532
and they started to monitor
this incident.

296
00:17:30,566 --> 00:17:33,362
Every time an FBI agent
arrives at a scene

297
00:17:33,397 --> 00:17:35,364
and is stating that they're
monitoring it,

298
00:17:35,399 --> 00:17:38,471
they're taking notes
and they're writing reports

299
00:17:38,505 --> 00:17:43,614
and those reports go to the
behavioral analysts in Virginia.

300
00:17:43,648 --> 00:17:47,066
And what their job is,
is to look for other cases

301
00:17:47,100 --> 00:17:49,965
that match the profile
that they're writing about.

302
00:17:53,969 --> 00:17:57,110
I think they get it.
I think they understand.

303
00:17:57,145 --> 00:18:00,424
And maybe they're trying to put the
pieces together, just as we are.

304
00:18:13,022 --> 00:18:15,163
We'd kinda like to know
what happened,

305
00:18:15,197 --> 00:18:16,509
but I don't think we ever will.

306
00:18:16,543 --> 00:18:18,718
Even if they found him,
we wouldn't know what happened.

307
00:18:20,306 --> 00:18:22,480
Something odd happened,
obviously.

308
00:18:22,515 --> 00:18:23,792
We just don't know what.

309
00:18:29,625 --> 00:18:32,490
I was there
until 11 days.

310
00:18:32,525 --> 00:18:34,975
And then, I finally
said to my older son,

311
00:18:35,976 --> 00:18:38,496
"I can't sit here anymore.
I got to go home."

312
00:18:39,463 --> 00:18:42,121
We came back, I think,
for Thanksgiving.

313
00:18:42,155 --> 00:18:44,468
That's when we stopped.

314
00:18:44,502 --> 00:18:48,955
We were down to just me
and some rangers

315
00:18:48,989 --> 00:18:51,199
and couple of other guys, that was
it, by the time it was over.

316
00:18:53,822 --> 00:18:55,789
He is
such a sweet dog.

317
00:18:55,824 --> 00:19:01,968
He sits at my kitchen window
all day long.

318
00:19:02,002 --> 00:19:04,626
He sits here and he waits
for Tom to come back.

319
00:19:04,660 --> 00:19:08,526
If you go by my house, you'll
see the dog in the window.

320
00:19:08,561 --> 00:19:11,805
Did you dad tell you about a sound
he heard in the woods that day?

321
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,361
He said he heard some kind of
snapping or crack sound

322
00:19:15,395 --> 00:19:16,845
that was strange.

323
00:19:16,879 --> 00:19:18,674
It wasn't something
he normally hears in the woods.

324
00:19:18,709 --> 00:19:20,814
He still talks to me about it.

325
00:19:20,849 --> 00:19:25,094
He almost said it sounded like
a big trap closing or something.

326
00:19:26,406 --> 00:19:29,098
I don't know, you know?

327
00:19:29,133 --> 00:19:33,206
Anything that you think that the
audience should know about your dad

328
00:19:33,241 --> 00:19:34,518
or about this incident?

329
00:19:35,898 --> 00:19:38,004
I tell you, you really
do never know.

330
00:19:38,038 --> 00:19:40,869
I mean, they always say
you should go in prepared.

331
00:19:41,697 --> 00:19:45,080
I mean, we treated that hunt

332
00:19:45,114 --> 00:19:47,186
like I was walking out here
in the backyard.

333
00:19:48,739 --> 00:19:50,258
It was really nothing.

334
00:19:50,292 --> 00:19:53,261
You just don't expect it.

335
00:19:57,955 --> 00:20:01,441
An interesting side note to
the disappearance of Tom Messick

336
00:20:01,476 --> 00:20:03,616
is the case of Fred Drumm.

337
00:20:05,721 --> 00:20:11,037
About the tenth day
of Tom Messick's search,

338
00:20:11,071 --> 00:20:14,351
the Department of Conservation
Rangers for the State of New York

339
00:20:14,385 --> 00:20:16,870
were pulled off of that event

340
00:20:16,905 --> 00:20:21,944
and sent 40 miles South
to Schuylerville, New York.

341
00:20:21,979 --> 00:20:25,534
Fred lived on his rural farm
with his wife.

342
00:20:25,569 --> 00:20:28,537
Fred was a retired supervisor
from his town.

343
00:20:28,572 --> 00:20:30,229
Was an outdoorsman.

344
00:20:30,263 --> 00:20:33,956
On Thanksgiving Day of 2015,

345
00:20:33,991 --> 00:20:36,476
Mrs. Drumm went
to attend a banquet,

346
00:20:36,511 --> 00:20:40,825
and when she returned in the
afternoon, her husband wasn't there.

347
00:20:40,860 --> 00:20:44,933
His car was there,
all of his belongings were in the house,

348
00:20:45,830 --> 00:20:47,591
but he had simply vanished.

349
00:20:48,281 --> 00:20:50,870
There were helicopters, K-9s,

350
00:20:51,422 --> 00:20:54,114
there was a huge SAR.

351
00:20:55,323 --> 00:20:59,119
And the eventual outcome
was the same as Tom's.

352
00:20:59,154 --> 00:21:03,469
It's quite a coincidence that
two elderly men, both hunters,

353
00:21:03,503 --> 00:21:05,298
disappeared from a rural area,

354
00:21:06,126 --> 00:21:07,611
weren't found,

355
00:21:07,645 --> 00:21:10,234
and both have been just
chalked up to disappearing.

356
00:21:34,327 --> 00:21:37,779
The thing that connects
all of theMissing 411 cases

357
00:21:37,813 --> 00:21:39,263
are the profile points.

358
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,994
And these have been gleaned
after reading thousands of cases

359
00:21:46,028 --> 00:21:49,238
and seeing them come up
time after time,

360
00:21:49,273 --> 00:21:53,346
and realizing that they are
part of the underlying story

361
00:21:53,381 --> 00:21:54,865
of each of these incidents.

362
00:21:57,730 --> 00:21:59,973
If the victim is with others,

363
00:22:00,008 --> 00:22:03,252
and decides to move away from
them and be on their own,

364
00:22:03,287 --> 00:22:08,050
that's the point in time something
happens and the victim disappears.

365
00:22:08,085 --> 00:22:10,190
We call this
the point of separation.

366
00:22:12,020 --> 00:22:14,747
The most common time
for a victim to disappear

367
00:22:14,781 --> 00:22:16,852
is in the mid to late
afternoon hours.

368
00:22:18,509 --> 00:22:20,718
Granite boulders
and rock fields.

369
00:22:20,753 --> 00:22:26,275
Victims are often found to disappear
in the areas of granite or rock fields.

370
00:22:26,310 --> 00:22:28,864
Victims found
or disappearing near water...

371
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,108
This is a very common trait

372
00:22:31,142 --> 00:22:33,731
and one that happens
anywhere in the world

373
00:22:33,766 --> 00:22:36,251
and isn't isolated
to a geographical area.

374
00:22:38,115 --> 00:22:40,842
There appears to be
a weather incident

375
00:22:40,876 --> 00:22:44,363
in close proximity to the time
that the person disappears

376
00:22:44,397 --> 00:22:46,365
or when the search starts.

377
00:22:46,399 --> 00:22:48,884
The weather issue could be
anywhere from a dust storm,

378
00:22:48,919 --> 00:22:50,714
to a full-blown blizzard.

379
00:22:51,577 --> 00:22:53,786
Disability or illness.

380
00:22:53,820 --> 00:22:56,892
Often times, the victim is
later found to have

381
00:22:56,927 --> 00:22:58,584
either an obvious,

382
00:22:58,618 --> 00:23:01,414
or a very subliminal disability or illness.

383
00:23:03,243 --> 00:23:06,695
Canines can't find the scent,
or lose the scent quickly.

384
00:23:06,730 --> 00:23:10,078
This is an extremely common
profile point

385
00:23:10,112 --> 00:23:12,805
that's probably in 95
percent of all the cases

386
00:23:12,839 --> 00:23:14,185
that have been documented.

387
00:23:15,808 --> 00:23:18,431
This is an indictment
of Search and Rescue.

388
00:23:18,466 --> 00:23:21,710
But for some unknown reason,
the victims are found in an area

389
00:23:21,745 --> 00:23:24,264
that had been searched
maybe dozens of times.

390
00:23:25,507 --> 00:23:27,233
Clothes, shoes removed.

391
00:23:27,267 --> 00:23:31,410
A common trait is that the victims
are missing clothing or shoes

392
00:23:31,444 --> 00:23:32,756
at the time they're found.

393
00:23:33,619 --> 00:23:34,999
Unknown cause of death.

394
00:23:35,690 --> 00:23:37,450
If the victim is found,

395
00:23:37,485 --> 00:23:41,074
and when they go through
a medical examination,

396
00:23:41,109 --> 00:23:43,318
the coroners can't determine
a cause of death.

397
00:23:44,699 --> 00:23:47,011
And finally, clusters.

398
00:23:47,046 --> 00:23:49,151
There's a geographical
clustering effect

399
00:23:49,186 --> 00:23:52,189
to the victims that fit
theMissing 411 profile.

400
00:23:52,223 --> 00:23:55,917
There can be anywhere from
three to 70 or 80 people

401
00:23:55,951 --> 00:23:57,988
in each geographical cluster.

402
00:24:16,972 --> 00:24:19,872
This is an area that
I've always wanted to come to

403
00:24:19,906 --> 00:24:21,460
for a variety of reasons.

404
00:24:23,047 --> 00:24:25,774
First of all,
it's just drop dead gorgeous.

405
00:24:25,809 --> 00:24:29,053
But also,
it's a regional cluster

406
00:24:29,088 --> 00:24:32,471
of unexplained missing people
going back decades.

407
00:24:53,871 --> 00:24:55,597
This is one of those clusters

408
00:24:56,564 --> 00:24:58,324
of the 59 I've documented

409
00:24:58,358 --> 00:25:01,085
that really has intrigued me
over the years.

410
00:25:04,675 --> 00:25:06,919
And within this
Santa Fe cluster,

411
00:25:06,953 --> 00:25:09,542
we're going to focus on
three very unusual,

412
00:25:09,577 --> 00:25:12,649
very mysterious disappearances.

413
00:25:12,683 --> 00:25:17,619
The first being 75-year-old Audrey
Kaplan who disappeared in July 2014.

414
00:25:20,104 --> 00:25:22,003
She was with her husband,

415
00:25:22,037 --> 00:25:25,454
they had a house here
in Santa Fe.

416
00:25:25,489 --> 00:25:30,183
And they decided to come up to the
ski-resort and look for mushrooms.

417
00:25:30,218 --> 00:25:33,221
It was a popular mushroom
picking site up in here.

418
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,018
And what they did,

419
00:25:37,052 --> 00:25:40,608
is they hiked up the trail
into the wilderness area

420
00:25:40,642 --> 00:25:43,956
and somewhere or another,
they got separated.

421
00:25:43,990 --> 00:25:49,617
Audrey, who was in extremely
good shape for an older person,

422
00:25:49,651 --> 00:25:53,586
couldn't be found,
and they started to search for her.

423
00:25:53,621 --> 00:25:56,382
Audrey disappeared July 30th,

424
00:25:56,416 --> 00:25:59,730
one of the hottest months
in the Santa Fe area.

425
00:25:59,765 --> 00:26:04,390
Now, there were thunderstorms
that happened post disappearance.

426
00:26:04,424 --> 00:26:06,461
And that night,
they had searchers on scene

427
00:26:06,495 --> 00:26:08,221
and for the following
several days,

428
00:26:08,256 --> 00:26:10,120
they scoured that mountain.

429
00:26:10,776 --> 00:26:14,227
And eventually, days later,

430
00:26:14,262 --> 00:26:19,612
one searcher,
way off the primary grid area,

431
00:26:19,647 --> 00:26:22,926
came upon a very unusual sight.

432
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:28,621
He started to see a camping area that
seemed to be pretty much destroyed.

433
00:26:28,656 --> 00:26:34,627
And he walked up and he saw a
woman in the fetal position,

434
00:26:34,662 --> 00:26:38,079
in about four or five inches
of water in a creek,

435
00:26:38,113 --> 00:26:40,288
deceased, naked.

436
00:26:40,322 --> 00:26:42,980
No shoes, no clothing,
no nothing.

437
00:26:43,774 --> 00:26:45,638
Her face was in the creek.

438
00:26:45,673 --> 00:26:49,400
Her entire body was lying on
its side in the fetal position.

439
00:26:50,056 --> 00:26:51,644
A very strange sight.

440
00:27:01,412 --> 00:27:03,622
And the coroner
made a determination

441
00:27:03,656 --> 00:27:06,728
that was even more unusual
than the sight in the creek.

442
00:27:16,496 --> 00:27:19,672
And he said that there
was no physical evidence

443
00:27:19,707 --> 00:27:22,710
that she died of hypothermia.

444
00:27:22,744 --> 00:27:26,852
But the determination was
hypothermia that killed her.

445
00:27:26,886 --> 00:27:30,476
Now, I've read
that report 20 times.

446
00:27:30,510 --> 00:27:32,167
It makes no sense.

447
00:27:32,202 --> 00:27:35,308
She had no distinct injuries
to her body,

448
00:27:35,343 --> 00:27:39,036
that there was no physical
symptoms of hypothermia.

449
00:27:41,832 --> 00:27:47,873
He also stated that in his report,
her face wasn't in the water.

450
00:27:47,907 --> 00:27:50,841
And the crime scene photos
clearly show

451
00:27:50,876 --> 00:27:53,361
Audrey was completely
in that creek.

452
00:27:54,396 --> 00:27:59,263
So, a lot of confusing,
strange aspects

453
00:27:59,298 --> 00:28:01,369
to the Audrey Kaplan
disappearance.

454
00:28:06,961 --> 00:28:11,517
The second story that
involves this exact area

455
00:28:11,551 --> 00:28:14,589
and that's
61-year-old Mel Nadel,

456
00:28:14,623 --> 00:28:17,730
who disappeared
up in the wilderness.

457
00:28:17,765 --> 00:28:21,044
Went up to Elk Mountain in
the Santa Fe National Forest.

458
00:28:21,078 --> 00:28:22,321
Elk hunting.

459
00:29:01,084 --> 00:29:04,121
What kind of wildlife
would somebody find

460
00:29:04,156 --> 00:29:05,640
up in the mountains out here?

461
00:29:05,674 --> 00:29:11,094
We're rich.
Elk, mule deer, bear, lions.

462
00:29:11,128 --> 00:29:12,992
And the size of
the elk and the deer?

463
00:29:13,027 --> 00:29:14,407
Really good,
trophy quality.

464
00:29:14,442 --> 00:29:15,788
Mexico's got
really good animals.

465
00:29:15,823 --> 00:29:18,308
We're stingy on our tags,
it's a draw system.

466
00:29:21,345 --> 00:29:24,072
So, hunting is
a really big sport.

467
00:29:24,107 --> 00:29:26,143
New Mexico is a destination
for elk hunters.

468
00:29:26,178 --> 00:29:29,250
The numbers out there are very small
compared to our western states,

469
00:29:29,284 --> 00:29:31,217
but our hunting quality
is really high.

470
00:29:34,496 --> 00:29:36,705
Mel had
a slight knee injury.

471
00:29:36,740 --> 00:29:39,122
He had stepped in a gopher
hole while target practicing

472
00:29:39,156 --> 00:29:40,468
a day or two prior.

473
00:29:42,539 --> 00:29:44,783
Once Mel met up with his
friends at Elk Mountain,

474
00:29:44,817 --> 00:29:48,096
and the three made a plan
for the evening's hunt,

475
00:29:48,131 --> 00:29:51,410
Mel would stick close while the other
two would go on a pretty good hike.

476
00:29:52,066 --> 00:29:53,446
Mel pointed at a group of trees

477
00:29:53,481 --> 00:29:55,794
about a 100 or 150 yards
down the trail,

478
00:29:55,828 --> 00:29:58,141
while the other two would
hike in the opposite direction

479
00:29:58,175 --> 00:29:59,314
toward the peak.

480
00:30:16,849 --> 00:30:18,782
Did you expect him
to come home that night?

481
00:30:21,164 --> 00:30:23,131
No. The following morning
he said he's coming back.

482
00:30:23,166 --> 00:30:24,512
So, he was going
to camp up there?

483
00:30:24,546 --> 00:30:25,340
Yes.

484
00:30:25,375 --> 00:30:26,410
- Spend the night.
- Yeah.

485
00:30:26,445 --> 00:30:27,653
And he's done
that before?

486
00:30:27,687 --> 00:30:28,827
Yes.

487
00:30:28,861 --> 00:30:33,072
Did Mel ever jog
or walk long distances?

488
00:30:33,107 --> 00:30:34,694
No.

489
00:30:34,729 --> 00:30:38,077
So, if Mel saw an elk,
he's not going to walk three miles?

490
00:30:38,112 --> 00:30:39,009
No.

491
00:30:39,044 --> 00:30:40,355
He won't do it?

492
00:30:43,186 --> 00:30:44,566
He doesn't like to walk.

493
00:30:45,740 --> 00:30:48,501
So, knowing that,

494
00:30:48,536 --> 00:30:51,194
then that really
puts confinement...

495
00:30:51,228 --> 00:30:53,852
- Yeah.
- ...on where he would have been.

496
00:30:53,886 --> 00:30:54,887
Yeah.

497
00:31:01,204 --> 00:31:03,862
He didn't go
hiking with them.

498
00:31:03,896 --> 00:31:08,901
The friends went up the mountain,
like, searching for animals.

499
00:31:08,936 --> 00:31:10,938
And then, when they get down,

500
00:31:11,731 --> 00:31:12,871
the jeep was there,

501
00:31:14,113 --> 00:31:15,390
there was no Mel.

502
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:18,531
But he should
have been back by then.

503
00:31:18,566 --> 00:31:20,775
He should have been there.

504
00:31:37,930 --> 00:31:38,966
Melvin!

505
00:31:41,278 --> 00:31:42,831
Melvin!

506
00:31:45,075 --> 00:31:46,559
Melvin!

507
00:31:58,192 --> 00:32:00,919
Eventually, another hunter
came along with a satellite phone.

508
00:32:00,953 --> 00:32:05,578
They called Search and Rescue,
they responded with K-9s, ground teams.

509
00:32:05,613 --> 00:32:07,511
And the K-9s tracked
right to the spot

510
00:32:07,546 --> 00:32:09,928
where everyone expected
Mel to be, at his blind.

511
00:32:11,101 --> 00:32:13,517
Now, think about this
for a minute.

512
00:32:13,552 --> 00:32:17,590
If Mel had wandered,
maybe shot an elk,

513
00:32:17,625 --> 00:32:19,765
and traveled to look for it,

514
00:32:19,799 --> 00:32:22,664
his tracks and his scent
would be past that point,

515
00:32:22,699 --> 00:32:23,700
but they weren't.

516
00:32:24,528 --> 00:32:26,945
And Mel was carrying a bow.

517
00:32:27,566 --> 00:32:28,877
He was carrying a firearm.

518
00:32:30,017 --> 00:32:31,742
Where are those items?

519
00:32:33,917 --> 00:32:36,333
When he went out hunting,
he had a pistol.

520
00:32:40,130 --> 00:32:41,373
- Never found the bow?
- No.

521
00:32:41,407 --> 00:32:43,271
- Did they ever find anything?
- No.

522
00:32:43,306 --> 00:32:45,170
- Never found anything?
- No.

523
00:32:45,204 --> 00:32:48,104
That is the bizarre stuff.

524
00:32:48,138 --> 00:32:50,002
How can you carry it
if you get lost?

525
00:32:50,037 --> 00:32:53,695
Isn't it going to get heavy
to hold onto all of it?

526
00:32:55,042 --> 00:32:56,215
There's nothing.

527
00:32:56,250 --> 00:33:00,219
Shoes... One of the arrows
would have fallen,

528
00:33:00,254 --> 00:33:02,877
or the bow has to drop
because those are heavy.

529
00:33:03,671 --> 00:33:05,224
Nothing.

530
00:33:05,259 --> 00:33:08,158
Did the Search and
Rescue people say that was odd?

531
00:33:08,193 --> 00:33:09,677
Everybody said it was odd.

532
00:33:11,334 --> 00:33:13,888
There's nothing.
A shred of clothing, nothing.

533
00:33:13,922 --> 00:33:17,719
If he was attacked by a bear,
there's no shred of clothing anywhere.

534
00:33:32,596 --> 00:33:34,840
And, Bob,
how many years have you been guiding?

535
00:33:34,874 --> 00:33:37,498
- This is my 25th year.
- 25th year.

536
00:33:37,532 --> 00:33:39,431
And how many years
of experience do you have

537
00:33:39,465 --> 00:33:41,260
in the mountains
surrounding Santa Fe?

538
00:33:41,295 --> 00:33:43,676
I'm 53 now,
almost my entire life.

539
00:33:43,711 --> 00:33:44,919
I know
you know the story.

540
00:33:44,953 --> 00:33:45,989
Yeah.

541
00:33:46,024 --> 00:33:47,749
What could have happened to him
in your mind?

542
00:33:47,784 --> 00:33:50,407
Here in New Mexico, Roswell,
alien abduction.

543
00:33:53,755 --> 00:33:54,756
Yeah.

544
00:33:56,379 --> 00:33:58,070
Really, he had
to have gotten a ride out.

545
00:33:58,105 --> 00:34:02,385
He had to have been picked up
or gotten a ride out, I assume.

546
00:34:02,419 --> 00:34:05,629
If he was a mobile person
and a hiking person,

547
00:34:05,664 --> 00:34:08,046
he could just be
so far off target

548
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,393
from where anybody assumed
he was going.

549
00:34:10,427 --> 00:34:12,188
But in his sense,
what we understand,

550
00:34:12,222 --> 00:34:13,810
he probably didn't do that.

551
00:34:13,844 --> 00:34:15,018
Right.

552
00:34:15,053 --> 00:34:18,366
He probably didn't take off
on a long march anywhere.

553
00:34:18,401 --> 00:34:20,058
History mystery.

554
00:34:20,092 --> 00:34:22,853
What happens to a big jet
airline in the huge ocean?

555
00:34:27,444 --> 00:34:30,482
As strange
as Mel Nadel's case was,

556
00:34:31,517 --> 00:34:33,071
there was another case

557
00:34:34,106 --> 00:34:35,590
much more recently.

558
00:34:36,143 --> 00:34:39,422
On November 7th, 2017,

559
00:34:40,147 --> 00:34:41,631
another hunter disappeared.

560
00:34:45,186 --> 00:34:46,636
Stanley came up to an area

561
00:34:46,670 --> 00:34:49,811
about 10 miles from
where Mel Nadel disappeared.

562
00:34:49,846 --> 00:34:52,469
In an area called
Barillas Peak.

563
00:34:52,504 --> 00:34:57,267
And he was in his vehicle with
his father and another friend

564
00:34:57,302 --> 00:34:59,959
and they were driving the
dirt roads looking for deer.

565
00:35:00,788 --> 00:35:02,928
Deer crossed in front of him,

566
00:35:02,962 --> 00:35:06,449
Stanley jumped out with his
rifle, chasing the deer.

567
00:35:06,483 --> 00:35:09,176
And just as he was
chasing the deer,

568
00:35:09,210 --> 00:35:14,112
fog and heavy rain
simultaneously hit that area

569
00:35:14,146 --> 00:35:15,630
where he disappeared into.

570
00:35:16,907 --> 00:35:19,876
And then he wanders,
apparently.

571
00:35:21,878 --> 00:35:26,538
I've started a seven-day
search for Stanley.

572
00:35:26,572 --> 00:35:28,609
The canines can't
pick up the scent.

573
00:35:28,643 --> 00:35:30,369
Helicopters in the air
can't see him.

574
00:35:30,404 --> 00:35:32,923
Professional trackers
can't find any tracks.

575
00:35:35,478 --> 00:35:37,652
Fast forward five months later,

576
00:35:40,655 --> 00:35:43,175
and an off-duty New Mexico
State police officer

577
00:35:43,210 --> 00:35:45,936
and his son are fishing
on the Pecos River.

578
00:35:47,490 --> 00:35:49,699
They find a body.

579
00:35:52,357 --> 00:35:54,048
He wasn't immediately
identified,

580
00:35:54,082 --> 00:35:56,844
but the coroner eventually
came around

581
00:35:56,878 --> 00:36:02,160
to say that it was and that
he had some skull injuries

582
00:36:02,194 --> 00:36:03,264
and he had two broken ribs.

583
00:36:04,576 --> 00:36:06,060
Presumption was
that he drowned.

584
00:36:09,684 --> 00:36:14,482
Stanley's body was found nine
miles from his point of separation.

585
00:36:14,517 --> 00:36:19,107
It's another weird disappearance
with this one just happening.

586
00:36:20,350 --> 00:36:22,697
Especially in these
cluster zones,

587
00:36:22,732 --> 00:36:24,975
this is one of those
recurring phenomena.

588
00:36:27,288 --> 00:36:30,049
It's going to happen again.
It's just a matter of time.

589
00:36:32,397 --> 00:36:33,777
In talking with Edna,

590
00:36:33,812 --> 00:36:36,815
one of the things they found in
Mel's jeep was his GPS.

591
00:36:37,816 --> 00:36:40,405
Now, that's an important device

592
00:36:40,439 --> 00:36:44,547
that will help you get back to the
point where you started the hike

593
00:36:44,581 --> 00:36:47,860
and it's supposed to be
a trail guide for you.

594
00:36:47,895 --> 00:36:50,346
Now, personally,
I don't think it's unusual

595
00:36:50,380 --> 00:36:52,071
that Mel didn't take that,

596
00:36:52,727 --> 00:36:54,281
because he knew in himself

597
00:36:54,315 --> 00:36:57,663
that he was only going to walk a
100 or 150 yards down that trail.

598
00:36:59,631 --> 00:37:02,703
If you're going to purchase
a GPS device,

599
00:37:02,737 --> 00:37:05,292
consider it
your insurance plan.

600
00:37:05,326 --> 00:37:07,639
And this is an example

601
00:37:07,673 --> 00:37:11,436
of why you should always carry
that insurance plan with you

602
00:37:11,470 --> 00:37:13,369
whenever you go
into the wilderness,

603
00:37:13,403 --> 00:37:16,130
hiking, hunting,
or sightseeing.

604
00:37:18,926 --> 00:37:21,722
We're paid to hunt
for a five-day period.

605
00:37:21,756 --> 00:37:23,827
So we make sure
people pack the right gear

606
00:37:23,862 --> 00:37:26,244
to be able to stay in
the field all five days.

607
00:37:26,278 --> 00:37:28,798
Therefore increase our odds
the highest possible.

608
00:37:28,832 --> 00:37:32,664
And so, our basic packing list

609
00:37:32,698 --> 00:37:36,392
that I expect hunters
to carry in the field

610
00:37:36,426 --> 00:37:40,292
has a hunting license and has a
bottle of water they're drinking.

611
00:37:40,327 --> 00:37:42,743
It has a bottle of water you're
not planning on drinking.

612
00:37:42,777 --> 00:37:44,158
It has a garbage bag.

613
00:37:44,192 --> 00:37:46,264
That's the most useful
wilderness tool in the world

614
00:37:46,298 --> 00:37:50,302
for a raincoat, to sit on,
to pack something in.

615
00:37:50,337 --> 00:37:53,512
As a hunter, you're like,
"I'm fine. I'm armed, I'm safe.

616
00:37:53,547 --> 00:37:56,757
I'm the baddest thing out here
because I have a firearm with me."

617
00:37:56,791 --> 00:37:58,621
And then, you read
more and more

618
00:37:58,655 --> 00:38:00,347
and these are people
that are more experienced.

619
00:38:00,381 --> 00:38:02,935
They've been in the woods
more than I have, you know?

620
00:38:02,970 --> 00:38:06,422
There's no reason
for why these people go missing.

621
00:38:06,456 --> 00:38:09,597
And you're like, "Okay,
I'm going to pack things differently."

622
00:38:09,632 --> 00:38:11,323
You change your whole mindset.

623
00:38:11,358 --> 00:38:13,670
Take advantage of the technology
that you're given today.

624
00:38:13,705 --> 00:38:17,156
You've got the sat phone,
you've got GPS, you've got all that.

625
00:38:17,191 --> 00:38:20,332
But then, if you don't want to have
to rely on a cell phone signal,

626
00:38:20,367 --> 00:38:22,334
if your battery dies
or something like that,

627
00:38:22,369 --> 00:38:24,888
you know, I've got a whistle,
I've got a knife.

628
00:38:24,923 --> 00:38:26,821
My knife's got a fire starter.

629
00:38:26,856 --> 00:38:27,995
It's just all about,

630
00:38:28,029 --> 00:38:29,962
"I'm going to be able
to take care of myself."

631
00:38:29,997 --> 00:38:32,517
You know, with the camouflage
patterns available today,

632
00:38:32,551 --> 00:38:35,727
you've got this one on right here,
it's going to be hard to get spotted.

633
00:38:35,761 --> 00:38:37,522
So, carry something
bright with you.

634
00:38:37,556 --> 00:38:39,075
This is a space blanket.

635
00:38:39,109 --> 00:38:42,147
And the reason I grab this
'cause it's fluorescent orange,

636
00:38:42,181 --> 00:38:45,564
which is a universal
"here I am" code.

637
00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:47,325
Tell somebody
where you're going.

638
00:38:47,359 --> 00:38:50,466
Tell somebody that is trusted
that is going to look after you

639
00:38:50,500 --> 00:38:52,191
and tell them what time
you're going to be out.

640
00:38:52,226 --> 00:38:54,987
And if you're not out by then
and you're not calling them,

641
00:38:55,022 --> 00:38:56,230
say it's Lauran that you told,

642
00:38:56,264 --> 00:38:58,991
then Lauran you know
is going to call the authorities

643
00:38:59,026 --> 00:39:00,890
to come out there and look for
you. Super important.

644
00:39:00,924 --> 00:39:04,238
It is and I've heard you
say this many times.

645
00:39:04,272 --> 00:39:06,758
Especially writing
about Missing 411.

646
00:39:06,792 --> 00:39:08,932
Check the weather.

647
00:39:08,967 --> 00:39:12,488
If you do get lost,
it's common sense to stay put.

648
00:39:12,522 --> 00:39:14,490
Stay close
to where you started.

649
00:39:14,524 --> 00:39:17,113
Especially
if you told somebody.

650
00:39:17,147 --> 00:39:19,357
And you don't want to lay
your pack down,

651
00:39:19,391 --> 00:39:22,946
but one thing I will never
compromise on is extra ammo.

652
00:39:22,981 --> 00:39:25,535
There's a three-shot rule
that a lot of people might...

653
00:39:25,570 --> 00:39:28,262
I don't even think they still
teach it in hunter safety course.

654
00:39:28,296 --> 00:39:30,540
That's not where I learned it.
I learned it from him.

655
00:39:30,575 --> 00:39:34,233
And it's not only "I'm lost,
three shots, here's where I am."

656
00:39:34,268 --> 00:39:36,408
In addition to that,
if I go missing,

657
00:39:36,443 --> 00:39:38,686
and for whatever reason
I have that extra ammo,

658
00:39:38,721 --> 00:39:40,412
I've used it up,
I've spent my shells,

659
00:39:40,447 --> 00:39:42,794
back at camp,
they can fire those three shots

660
00:39:42,828 --> 00:39:44,105
and you can tune into

661
00:39:44,140 --> 00:39:46,245
"Okay, I need to turn around.
I need to do this."

662
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,903
If you are lost,
the best thing you can possibly do

663
00:39:48,938 --> 00:39:51,423
is get yourself
into an opening.

664
00:39:51,458 --> 00:39:54,599
And I always tell people,
"Take your coat, take something bright,

665
00:39:54,633 --> 00:39:57,878
and wave it around over the top
of your head in a big circle."

666
00:39:57,912 --> 00:39:59,397
Like a set of roller blades

667
00:39:59,431 --> 00:40:01,916
or a rope that you're
spinning over your head.

668
00:40:01,951 --> 00:40:04,747
It's really, really easy
to see that from the air.

669
00:40:06,438 --> 00:40:11,547
Typically, we find,
either the person is alive,

670
00:40:11,581 --> 00:40:14,964
or you know, deceased.

671
00:40:15,861 --> 00:40:19,002
Not very often
do we not find them.

672
00:40:43,130 --> 00:40:45,615
The Crazy Mountains
are a geological upthrust

673
00:40:45,650 --> 00:40:49,757
that is 300 million years younger
than the Rocky Mountain range.

674
00:40:49,792 --> 00:40:51,828
So, they're not part of
the Rocky Mountain range.

675
00:40:51,863 --> 00:40:54,210
They're an isolated
island of mountains.

676
00:40:54,244 --> 00:40:56,108
If you're
in the Crazies,

677
00:40:56,143 --> 00:40:58,110
I don't care where you're at
in the Crazies,

678
00:40:58,145 --> 00:41:01,182
if you follow a stream down

679
00:41:01,217 --> 00:41:04,703
you're going
to be somewhere soon.

680
00:41:04,738 --> 00:41:06,981
No matter where you are
in these mountains.

681
00:41:07,016 --> 00:41:10,882
Because they're just
an island chain of mountains.

682
00:41:14,851 --> 00:41:20,616
There are several versions of why
the Crazy Mountains are called crazy.

683
00:41:20,650 --> 00:41:26,173
The one I believe is it's a
curse from the Crow Indians.

684
00:41:26,207 --> 00:41:28,796
Because this used
to be Crow reservation

685
00:41:28,831 --> 00:41:31,730
and when they were
moved off the land,

686
00:41:31,765 --> 00:41:35,493
the Crow Indians supposedly put
a curse on the Crazy Mountains

687
00:41:35,527 --> 00:41:39,117
for the wind to blow and
drive the white man crazy.

688
00:41:43,846 --> 00:41:45,572
My name is Alan Ronneberg.

689
00:41:45,606 --> 00:41:49,990
I'm the Undersheriff with the
Sweetgrass County Sheriff's Office.

690
00:41:50,024 --> 00:41:53,545
I'm also the Search
and Rescue coordinator.

691
00:41:53,580 --> 00:41:58,550
I've actually been with Search
and Rescue for 24 years.

692
00:41:58,585 --> 00:42:00,448
I grew up in this community.

693
00:42:00,483 --> 00:42:03,693
I've been here...
I'm 52 years old now.

694
00:42:03,728 --> 00:42:06,006
I've been here all my life.

695
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,940
My parents, grandparents,
great grandparents.

696
00:42:08,974 --> 00:42:11,390
They've been here
since the 1880s.

697
00:42:13,392 --> 00:42:17,673
It's always been an agricultural
and mining community.

698
00:42:17,707 --> 00:42:22,470
The family ranches have been handed
down for over a hundred years

699
00:42:22,505 --> 00:42:24,300
to people that work here,

700
00:42:24,334 --> 00:42:27,061
raise their families here
and their kids stay here.

701
00:42:28,235 --> 00:42:31,272
And a fantastic place
to grow up.

702
00:42:32,929 --> 00:42:34,241
I'm Rebecca Rein.

703
00:42:34,897 --> 00:42:36,208
I'm Charlie Rein.

704
00:42:36,243 --> 00:42:41,144
And we live in Sweetgrass County
in Montana in the Crazies.

705
00:42:42,076 --> 00:42:43,595
So, tell us about
the kind of wildlife

706
00:42:43,630 --> 00:42:45,597
that we would expect to see
in the wilderness.

707
00:42:47,012 --> 00:42:49,946
Deer, white tail,
and mule deer.

708
00:42:49,981 --> 00:42:52,328
Elk, black bear.

709
00:42:52,362 --> 00:42:55,262
I don't see many wolves,
but they're here.

710
00:42:55,296 --> 00:42:56,953
So, no grizzlies
up there?

711
00:42:56,988 --> 00:42:58,610
Not that we know of.

712
00:42:58,645 --> 00:43:00,992
Now, there have been
folks that say they saw grizzlies.

713
00:43:01,026 --> 00:43:06,584
We don't have a resident
population of grizzly bears yet.

714
00:43:06,618 --> 00:43:09,448
I think they're coming,
but there's nothing now.

715
00:43:27,535 --> 00:43:30,297
You know,
the Crazies themselves...

716
00:43:31,470 --> 00:43:34,612
are unique.

717
00:43:34,646 --> 00:43:40,997
They are the youngest
mountain range in the country.

718
00:43:41,032 --> 00:43:43,448
It's horrendously rugged.

719
00:43:43,482 --> 00:43:49,247
And you don't really understand
it until you get into it.

720
00:44:18,207 --> 00:44:22,970
What supposedly happened
as they started on the trail

721
00:44:23,005 --> 00:44:25,179
going up to Campfire Lake,

722
00:44:25,214 --> 00:44:26,698
they had a horse wreck.

723
00:44:26,733 --> 00:44:30,046
Their mule spooked and
started bucking and throwing

724
00:44:30,081 --> 00:44:32,497
all their supplies
off the trail.

725
00:44:32,531 --> 00:44:35,017
All of Aaron's
camping equipment

726
00:44:35,051 --> 00:44:38,399
was basically on that mule.

727
00:44:38,434 --> 00:44:40,470
I know he lost
his sleeping bag.

728
00:44:41,782 --> 00:44:44,302
And once they got into
Campfire Lake, what happened?

729
00:44:45,234 --> 00:44:46,856
They started their hunt.

730
00:44:46,891 --> 00:44:51,585
This was their base camp and
they went and hunted from here.

731
00:44:52,448 --> 00:44:54,692
They were planning a week trip.

732
00:44:57,591 --> 00:45:00,698
Would you describe
that he had good common sense?

733
00:45:00,732 --> 00:45:03,010
Yeah, Aaron had
good common sense.

734
00:45:03,045 --> 00:45:05,254
Aaron wasn't a dummy.

735
00:45:05,288 --> 00:45:07,739
I mean, someone that comes up
here every other weekend,

736
00:45:07,774 --> 00:45:11,363
always hunts up here,
has stashes up here.

737
00:45:11,398 --> 00:45:14,194
He knows the area
like the back of his hand.

738
00:45:14,228 --> 00:45:18,543
They spent two days
here at Campfire Lake.

739
00:45:18,577 --> 00:45:26,033
The one fellow had a cache here,
somewhere, below Sunlight Lake.

740
00:45:26,068 --> 00:45:32,039
So, Aaron was going to go up the
trail, to Sunlight, into the cache

741
00:45:32,074 --> 00:45:34,421
and get what he needed.

742
00:45:34,455 --> 00:45:36,872
He was supposed to go up here,
grab the cache,

743
00:45:36,906 --> 00:45:39,046
and then come down
to his friends.

744
00:45:39,081 --> 00:45:41,152
Come back
into Campfire Lake.

745
00:45:50,713 --> 00:45:52,059
Later that day,

746
00:45:52,094 --> 00:45:55,683
Nate had called Aaron
on the radio.

747
00:45:55,718 --> 00:45:56,754
He had a walkie-talkie?

748
00:45:56,788 --> 00:45:58,341
Yeah, a walkie-talkie.

749
00:45:58,376 --> 00:46:01,759
Yeah, I think it was a Garmin
Rino is what they call it.

750
00:46:01,793 --> 00:46:05,797
And on that Rino,
there's an LED screen

751
00:46:05,832 --> 00:46:09,525
and it also gives the GPS position
of the person that's talking.

752
00:46:10,733 --> 00:46:13,391
As well as their position.
You know, back and forth.

753
00:46:14,288 --> 00:46:16,808
And when they did that,

754
00:46:16,843 --> 00:46:22,262
the GPS position showed him
on the very edge of the screen

755
00:46:22,296 --> 00:46:26,369
over in this area here,
on the main Sweetgrass trail.

756
00:46:26,404 --> 00:46:28,716
Okay,
so that's confusing.

757
00:46:28,751 --> 00:46:30,926
When he gets to the fork
right here...

758
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:32,479
- This fork?
- Yeah.

759
00:46:32,513 --> 00:46:35,551
How evident is it that there's a
fork in that trail to the lake?

760
00:46:35,585 --> 00:46:36,690
Very.

761
00:46:36,724 --> 00:46:38,278
So, it's real obvious.

762
00:46:38,312 --> 00:46:40,107
It's very obvious.

763
00:46:40,142 --> 00:46:43,455
So, at this point,
where he's down the trail over here,

764
00:46:43,490 --> 00:46:44,974
he's next to a creek, right?

765
00:46:45,009 --> 00:46:46,286
Correct.

766
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,358
And the creek, everyone knows,
runs one direction.

767
00:46:49,392 --> 00:46:50,359
Correct.

768
00:46:50,393 --> 00:46:53,465
So, for him to get
disoriented right here,

769
00:46:53,500 --> 00:46:55,882
and not know which direction
he was going on the trail

770
00:46:55,916 --> 00:46:57,021
doesn't make any sense.

771
00:46:57,055 --> 00:46:58,574
No.

772
00:46:58,608 --> 00:47:01,335
At what point do they
realize that he's missing?

773
00:47:01,370 --> 00:47:03,682
The next day actually.

774
00:47:03,717 --> 00:47:04,856
Okay.

775
00:47:04,891 --> 00:47:07,479
And they waited
for him for a day

776
00:47:07,514 --> 00:47:09,550
and then looked
for him for a day.

777
00:47:09,585 --> 00:47:12,657
And that's
when the storm starts.

778
00:47:12,691 --> 00:47:16,764
And the storm is coming
in from this way.

779
00:47:16,799 --> 00:47:17,835
Gotcha.

780
00:47:17,869 --> 00:47:19,526
How much did it snow?

781
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:23,564
Between 18 to 24 inches
within 12 hours.

782
00:47:23,599 --> 00:47:27,672
The temperature was
in the 40s and 50s

783
00:47:27,706 --> 00:47:30,709
and then, all of a sudden,
it was in the teens.

784
00:47:30,744 --> 00:47:33,402
And the snowstorm kinda
forced them out.

785
00:47:34,644 --> 00:47:38,856
We received a call from
one of the individuals

786
00:47:38,890 --> 00:47:39,926
that was hunting with him,

787
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:44,275
saying that he was overdue
and hadn't come out.

788
00:47:44,309 --> 00:47:47,347
You know, they hadn't seen him
for a couple of days.

789
00:47:47,381 --> 00:47:49,418
When they told me
Campfire Lake, I said,

790
00:47:49,452 --> 00:47:51,730
"Well, you need to
get hold of Park County."

791
00:47:52,973 --> 00:47:55,700
Park County goes out,
they start a search.

792
00:47:55,734 --> 00:47:58,151
They start a search
in their county

793
00:47:58,185 --> 00:48:04,053
and we go ahead in kind of
a military blocking maneuver.

794
00:48:04,088 --> 00:48:08,747
You know, there's still 16 inches
of snow practically melting.

795
00:48:08,782 --> 00:48:11,026
The temperature is getting
better. It's warming up.

796
00:48:12,924 --> 00:48:14,995
We don't find anything.

797
00:48:15,030 --> 00:48:16,203
There's a key point.

798
00:48:16,238 --> 00:48:19,275
So, as you guys were
coming up the trail,

799
00:48:19,310 --> 00:48:21,415
you're not seeing
any footprints going out?

800
00:48:21,450 --> 00:48:22,554
- Negative.
- Right.

801
00:48:22,589 --> 00:48:24,280
We're here
from Sweetgrass County.

802
00:48:24,315 --> 00:48:26,696
Alan. Good to see you.

803
00:48:26,731 --> 00:48:31,080
I believe it was the second
day that I was working there.

804
00:48:31,115 --> 00:48:33,462
I had landed with the deputy

805
00:48:33,496 --> 00:48:37,742
after dropping off two
separate dog teams.

806
00:48:37,776 --> 00:48:40,193
'Cause that terrain
is so steep and so deep,

807
00:48:40,227 --> 00:48:42,436
and very wild country.

808
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:44,093
Started up high,

809
00:48:44,128 --> 00:48:45,784
and they were going to work
the dog teams coming down,

810
00:48:45,819 --> 00:48:51,445
and there was a girl
with her German shepherd,

811
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,897
I believe that found
a pair of boots.

812
00:49:08,842 --> 00:49:10,464
Roger.

813
00:49:10,499 --> 00:49:14,330
This will be the road that
Aaron and his two buddies

814
00:49:14,365 --> 00:49:17,851
drove in on to pick up the horse trailer.

815
00:49:17,885 --> 00:49:21,993
I know they had two horses
and a mule.

816
00:49:28,793 --> 00:49:32,383
So, you guys, the horse wreck
happened right up ahead of us.

817
00:49:33,832 --> 00:49:35,973
So, the trailer is over here
on the right side.

818
00:49:36,007 --> 00:49:37,077
On the right.

819
00:49:37,112 --> 00:49:39,183
Stays on this bench here
for a while.

820
00:49:39,217 --> 00:49:42,117
You get glimpses of it whenever
we go through a meadow.

821
00:49:48,054 --> 00:49:49,814
We're going to make
a right-handed turn, fellas.

822
00:49:49,848 --> 00:49:51,712
And we're going to follow
the rest of the trail here.

823
00:49:51,747 --> 00:49:53,852
You can see where the trail
is right in front of you.

824
00:49:54,232 --> 00:49:55,475
The zig-zag.

825
00:49:56,372 --> 00:49:58,064
You're going
to reveal into Campfire

826
00:49:58,098 --> 00:50:01,550
as soon as you look straight out
on the outside of this cliff.

827
00:50:03,517 --> 00:50:06,934
Their base camp. They're basing
out of Campfire Lake.

828
00:50:12,078 --> 00:50:14,632
So, when you come up here,
you sit up here in you spot

829
00:50:14,666 --> 00:50:16,841
and that's what they were doing.
That spot...

830
00:50:16,875 --> 00:50:18,877
We saw elk
all the time over here.

831
00:50:18,912 --> 00:50:20,051
So, this is loaded.

832
00:50:23,917 --> 00:50:25,712
So, we'll go
down to the bottom.

833
00:50:27,714 --> 00:50:30,889
You can see this kind of
tough country

834
00:50:30,924 --> 00:50:33,202
even on the trail when
you kind of move through.

835
00:50:33,237 --> 00:50:36,412
- It is.
- It's a work out.

836
00:50:36,447 --> 00:50:40,037
Going up and down these trails
is one heck of a work out.

837
00:50:41,935 --> 00:50:44,696
- You could see the trail easily.
- Yeah.

838
00:50:45,352 --> 00:50:46,698
And the trail is like this

839
00:50:46,733 --> 00:50:50,737
all the way from Campfire
over to Sweetgrass.

840
00:50:54,568 --> 00:50:58,089
This is the tee in the trail.

841
00:50:58,124 --> 00:51:00,574
Trail goes through
those rocks right there.

842
00:51:02,990 --> 00:51:05,096
There was fresh snow
on the ground.

843
00:51:06,546 --> 00:51:09,445
It could have been easy
to miss that turn.

844
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,276
He left before it started
to snow, though.

845
00:51:12,310 --> 00:51:13,587
- Oh, did he?
- Yeah.

846
00:51:13,622 --> 00:51:16,383
- Gotcha.
- I think it was bare ground.

847
00:51:16,418 --> 00:51:18,282
When he took off,

848
00:51:18,316 --> 00:51:22,251
it was actually
pretty warm out.

849
00:51:22,286 --> 00:51:24,805
Into the 50s at least.

850
00:51:26,773 --> 00:51:28,775
They were right
at the county line.

851
00:51:28,809 --> 00:51:32,606
We're coming into Sweetgrass
County and leaving Park County.

852
00:51:35,954 --> 00:51:37,956
A lot of boulder fields
through here.

853
00:51:37,991 --> 00:51:39,613
It is, yeah.

854
00:51:39,648 --> 00:51:42,582
And these are all loose.
These aren't set.

855
00:51:42,616 --> 00:51:44,411
They're all loose.

856
00:51:44,446 --> 00:51:46,448
You take one step forward

857
00:51:46,482 --> 00:51:49,796
and you slide two steps back
on each foot.

858
00:51:50,348 --> 00:51:53,006
So, in our search area,

859
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,974
that's what restricted
our search area so much.

860
00:51:56,458 --> 00:51:57,769
It was so small,

861
00:51:57,804 --> 00:52:01,601
because you can't get off of
the trail very far.

862
00:52:01,635 --> 00:52:04,155
You know,
you start going across it's sharp.

863
00:52:04,190 --> 00:52:07,227
If you don't have
a pair of hard sole boots,

864
00:52:07,262 --> 00:52:08,608
they're going to eat your feet.

865
00:52:09,471 --> 00:52:11,921
Even into the timber

866
00:52:11,956 --> 00:52:14,545
is loose rock
all over the place.

867
00:52:16,167 --> 00:52:20,137
Immediately from the boots,
there is a scree pile.

868
00:52:20,171 --> 00:52:24,141
If he was barefoot, he would have
torn up his feet immediately.

869
00:52:26,695 --> 00:52:28,628
Not to the falls, no.

870
00:52:28,662 --> 00:52:30,595
Well, we have to turn around
to see him better.

871
00:52:30,630 --> 00:52:33,288
Yeah, this is the bench
of other falls

872
00:52:33,322 --> 00:52:35,497
where the boots were found.

873
00:52:40,467 --> 00:52:43,436
And this bench
is nice and subtle.

874
00:52:43,470 --> 00:52:45,196
It's kinda protected.

875
00:52:45,231 --> 00:52:46,473
A walk that way into the...

876
00:52:46,508 --> 00:52:48,993
And you're limited
where you can go.

877
00:52:51,996 --> 00:52:53,066
Right there.

878
00:52:54,550 --> 00:52:57,001
- Yeah, he was right over there.
- Those are trees.

879
00:52:57,035 --> 00:52:58,313
Those trees, yeah.

880
00:52:59,037 --> 00:53:00,315
Right in here.

881
00:53:01,868 --> 00:53:05,043
Close to the creek,
there are ways down

882
00:53:05,078 --> 00:53:07,908
into the creek
that you can do it.

883
00:53:09,393 --> 00:53:11,326
Especially underneath
the falls here.

884
00:53:13,224 --> 00:53:16,607
You can get into the...
Into this creek.

885
00:53:18,264 --> 00:53:22,854
Now, when we searched,
we searched this entire flat.

886
00:53:22,889 --> 00:53:24,235
After we found the boots,

887
00:53:24,270 --> 00:53:28,205
we ticked through this
like nobody's business.

888
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:29,654
I had a bunch of people

889
00:53:29,689 --> 00:53:32,588
and they... three searches

890
00:53:32,623 --> 00:53:34,072
is what we did.

891
00:53:38,387 --> 00:53:42,184
So, we had evidence here.

892
00:53:42,219 --> 00:53:46,533
At the falls, we find...
See, there's the pair of boots,

893
00:53:46,568 --> 00:53:51,124
I mean, set purposely
side by side.

894
00:53:51,158 --> 00:53:54,886
Next to that is
basically a water bladder,

895
00:53:54,921 --> 00:53:58,925
like a Camelbak water bladder.

896
00:54:00,098 --> 00:54:03,136
Just off the trail,
there is a fire pit.

897
00:54:03,170 --> 00:54:08,417
In that fire pit was a partially
burnt cigarette container

898
00:54:08,452 --> 00:54:11,869
that we knew was Aaron's brand.

899
00:54:11,903 --> 00:54:14,630
Also in the immediate vicinity,

900
00:54:14,665 --> 00:54:19,635
a fire bundle partially burnt.

901
00:54:21,396 --> 00:54:24,088
Alongside that,

902
00:54:24,122 --> 00:54:27,919
in the fire pit
were two waist belts

903
00:54:28,610 --> 00:54:30,577
from a backpack.

904
00:54:30,612 --> 00:54:33,408
Straps that
come around the back

905
00:54:33,442 --> 00:54:34,788
- and sits on your hips.
- Correct.

906
00:54:34,823 --> 00:54:35,962
Is that what
we're talking about?

907
00:54:35,996 --> 00:54:37,481
That's what
we're talking about. Correct.

908
00:54:37,515 --> 00:54:39,310
Why would anybody
take those off?

909
00:54:39,345 --> 00:54:41,036
Cut 'em off,

910
00:54:41,070 --> 00:54:43,763
there's a little bit of insulation
in there because they're padded.

911
00:54:43,797 --> 00:54:45,420
And you can slip
your hand in there

912
00:54:45,454 --> 00:54:47,111
for a little bit of protection.

913
00:54:47,145 --> 00:54:48,008
Right.

914
00:54:48,043 --> 00:54:49,700
That's the first thing
we thought of.

915
00:54:50,804 --> 00:54:55,084
That's about the only thing
that made any sense.

916
00:54:55,119 --> 00:54:58,743
Why a person would take
that waist belt off.

917
00:54:58,778 --> 00:55:01,401
That must have been a
little confusing to the searchers.

918
00:55:01,436 --> 00:55:02,644
Absolutely.

919
00:55:03,645 --> 00:55:05,060
Plus...

920
00:55:06,372 --> 00:55:09,444
I throw another little bit of
rankle in there,

921
00:55:09,478 --> 00:55:13,137
they were up in the same spot

922
00:55:13,171 --> 00:55:16,347
a day or two days before
and never saw it.

923
00:55:16,382 --> 00:55:17,452
Never saw those items.

924
00:55:17,486 --> 00:55:19,454
Never came across those items.

925
00:55:19,488 --> 00:55:20,420
Same spot?

926
00:55:20,455 --> 00:55:22,698
Same people, same spot.

927
00:55:22,733 --> 00:55:25,632
And they said that
they never saw those boots.

928
00:55:25,667 --> 00:55:27,047
They never saw any of that.

929
00:55:27,634 --> 00:55:28,911
How is that possible?

930
00:55:30,672 --> 00:55:31,914
I don't know.

931
00:55:34,261 --> 00:55:36,333
These are seasoned guys.

932
00:55:36,367 --> 00:55:38,127
They do good at their jobs.

933
00:55:38,162 --> 00:55:41,165
They're SARTECH II
rated by NASAR.

934
00:55:41,199 --> 00:55:42,856
They know what the heck
they're doing.

935
00:55:45,203 --> 00:55:48,621
When they see
the waist belt cut off,

936
00:55:48,655 --> 00:55:52,003
and then the items laid out.

937
00:55:53,073 --> 00:55:56,836
It's starting to look
like hypothermia.

938
00:55:56,870 --> 00:56:00,184
If you look at evidence
from hypothermia cases

939
00:56:00,218 --> 00:56:02,842
in the wild,

940
00:56:02,876 --> 00:56:05,189
or in remote areas,

941
00:56:05,223 --> 00:56:10,021
this is kind of the behavior
that you see.

942
00:56:10,056 --> 00:56:13,059
So, I narrow my search
both sides of the creek,

943
00:56:13,093 --> 00:56:17,270
all the way as far up
on the slope as I can get.

944
00:56:17,304 --> 00:56:18,858
Because we didn't think

945
00:56:18,892 --> 00:56:21,654
if he was bad enough
that he was leaving stuff,

946
00:56:21,688 --> 00:56:24,381
he wasn't going to get very far.

947
00:56:24,415 --> 00:56:27,867
So, somebody who is that hypothermic
isn't going to go very far.

948
00:56:27,901 --> 00:56:29,938
You wouldn't think so. No.

949
00:56:29,972 --> 00:56:32,216
So, the area East of the falls.

950
00:56:32,250 --> 00:56:34,287
You guys covered
that pretty thick.

951
00:56:34,321 --> 00:56:35,702
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

952
00:56:35,737 --> 00:56:38,118
We turned over everything.

953
00:56:38,153 --> 00:56:39,568
And you're a former K-9 handler.

954
00:56:39,603 --> 00:56:40,707
Correct.

955
00:56:40,742 --> 00:56:42,468
So, did the dogs
hit on anything?

956
00:56:43,883 --> 00:56:45,402
- No.
- Nothing?

957
00:56:45,436 --> 00:56:46,437
Nothing.

958
00:57:10,496 --> 00:57:14,707
Well, every spring
we maintain our fences,

959
00:57:14,741 --> 00:57:17,123
you know, so we can graze our
cattle the way we want to.

960
00:57:17,157 --> 00:57:18,573
So, it's just an annual
spring thing.

961
00:57:18,607 --> 00:57:22,093
And my father-in-law was here.
He just happened to be with me.

962
00:57:23,163 --> 00:57:26,477
And just, you can see
the ridge up there,

963
00:57:26,512 --> 00:57:29,722
where a section of fence runs
between us and our neighbors

964
00:57:29,756 --> 00:57:32,414
and just annual routine

965
00:57:32,449 --> 00:57:36,901
and I was going over the fence and
he was kind of hiking around and...

966
00:57:36,936 --> 00:57:40,836
He looked down
and he saw an orange vest.

967
00:57:40,871 --> 00:57:42,562
So, he went down
just to go pick it up.

968
00:57:42,597 --> 00:57:46,739
And then, that's when he proceeded to
find the backpack and everything else.

969
00:57:46,773 --> 00:57:49,017
So in his mind, he thought,

970
00:57:49,051 --> 00:57:51,468
"Well, what hunter
lost his stuff up here?"

971
00:57:53,504 --> 00:57:56,369
And he comes down
off of there just like...

972
00:57:56,403 --> 00:57:58,129
Grinning from ear
to ear, just...

973
00:57:58,164 --> 00:58:00,960
"Hey, was there a hunter
lost up here?"

974
00:58:00,994 --> 00:58:04,032
I'm like, "Yeah,
actually there was."

975
00:58:04,066 --> 00:58:08,830
"Oh, cool! His license
is still in here in his pack."

976
00:58:08,864 --> 00:58:12,316
"Okay." So, I look at it
and it was Aaron Hedges'.

977
00:58:12,350 --> 00:58:14,042
Did you
recognize the name?

978
00:58:14,076 --> 00:58:15,630
Oh, yeah.
I recognized the name.

979
00:58:15,664 --> 00:58:18,805
I mean, there were helicopters
flying way up the valley up there

980
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:22,188
and a big searching
that was in the local press.

981
00:58:22,222 --> 00:58:25,847
And inside
was there any food?

982
00:58:25,881 --> 00:58:27,883
There were snack bars.

983
00:58:27,918 --> 00:58:29,540
There was
nutrition inside?

984
00:58:29,575 --> 00:58:30,990
Yes.

985
00:58:31,024 --> 00:58:32,647
Correct me if I'm wrong,

986
00:58:32,681 --> 00:58:35,408
but the backpack, I understand,
was actually leaning against a tree.

987
00:58:35,442 --> 00:58:36,547
Correct.

988
00:58:36,582 --> 00:58:38,618
So, somebody just didn't
strip it off and drop it.

989
00:58:38,653 --> 00:58:39,550
No.

990
00:58:39,585 --> 00:58:41,276
They put it there with intent.

991
00:58:41,310 --> 00:58:43,174
They put it there with intent.
They put it there purposely

992
00:58:43,209 --> 00:58:44,969
and it was protected.

993
00:58:45,004 --> 00:58:46,902
Okay, and what was
in the backpack?

994
00:58:46,937 --> 00:58:48,559
I understand you found a gun.

995
00:58:48,594 --> 00:58:49,802
Correct.

996
00:58:49,836 --> 00:58:52,183
A .44 Ruger Redhawk
I believe it was.

997
00:58:52,218 --> 00:58:54,013
- Find a bow?
- Yes.

998
00:58:54,047 --> 00:58:56,325
It was alongside
the backpack evidently.

999
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:59,432
In our search,
another interesting point, I guess...

1000
00:59:01,192 --> 00:59:03,678
When we searched this area,

1001
00:59:04,748 --> 00:59:07,820
here, at the head
of this ridge,

1002
00:59:07,854 --> 00:59:10,754
where it starts to drop off,

1003
00:59:10,788 --> 00:59:13,135
was a cup. A Thermos cup.

1004
00:59:13,895 --> 00:59:15,241
And beside that cup

1005
00:59:15,275 --> 00:59:19,072
was an open energy drink.

1006
00:59:19,763 --> 00:59:22,213
Somebody had, you know,

1007
00:59:22,248 --> 00:59:27,425
had basically sat down
and drank a cup of tea.

1008
00:59:30,049 --> 00:59:31,395
That's an odd sight.

1009
00:59:31,429 --> 00:59:32,569
Uh-huh.

1010
00:59:32,603 --> 00:59:34,018
Yeah, absolutely.

1011
00:59:34,053 --> 00:59:35,399
What do you think
when you see that?

1012
00:59:37,401 --> 00:59:39,748
"What the hell
is this guy doing?"

1013
00:59:39,783 --> 00:59:46,237
And from this point,
you could see the Rein buildings.

1014
00:59:46,272 --> 00:59:47,445
From where the cup is?

1015
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:51,588
Yes, absolutely.
I mean, they're right there.

1016
00:59:51,622 --> 00:59:53,728
They're right down there.

1017
00:59:53,762 --> 00:59:55,212
And could you see a road?

1018
00:59:55,246 --> 00:59:56,109
Yes.

1019
00:59:56,834 --> 00:59:58,249
Does that make any sense to you?

1020
00:59:58,284 --> 01:00:01,598
No, it doesn't, because...

1021
01:00:01,632 --> 01:00:04,393
Well, I don't know
if it makes sense to me or not,

1022
01:00:04,428 --> 01:00:05,567
but it is funny.

1023
01:00:05,602 --> 01:00:08,294
So, you don't find
a body after your search.

1024
01:00:08,639 --> 01:00:09,744
No.

1025
01:00:09,778 --> 01:00:12,125
No, we couldn't cover
a large area

1026
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:14,645
and we didn't have a lot of
time to be able to do that.

1027
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:16,474
There wasn't a life or death
situation at this point?

1028
01:00:16,509 --> 01:00:19,719
No, not at that point.
It was evidence recovery.

1029
01:00:19,754 --> 01:00:23,309
So, how far does it go on
for the next thing to happen?

1030
01:00:23,861 --> 01:00:25,207
Another year.

1031
01:00:27,175 --> 01:00:29,246
Off of the Sweetgrass ranch,

1032
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:32,352
which is a dude ranch,
they have a dude ride.

1033
01:00:32,387 --> 01:00:35,148
A string of dudes
who were guests at the ranch

1034
01:00:35,183 --> 01:00:37,116
were on this ride.

1035
01:00:37,150 --> 01:00:41,499
And as they come up the hill,

1036
01:00:41,534 --> 01:00:43,467
on a little bench,

1037
01:00:43,501 --> 01:00:46,125
one of the guests
looks over and goes,

1038
01:00:46,159 --> 01:00:48,679
"Hey, there's
a skull over there."

1039
01:00:48,714 --> 01:00:52,407
And lo and behold, there's a
human skull underneath a tree.

1040
01:00:54,340 --> 01:00:58,516
I mean, just pretty as a
picture, bright as a penny,

1041
01:00:58,551 --> 01:00:59,690
underneath a dead tree.

1042
01:01:00,795 --> 01:01:02,037
Did you go back out?

1043
01:01:02,072 --> 01:01:03,142
Sure did.

1044
01:01:03,176 --> 01:01:04,868
And what did you find?

1045
01:01:04,902 --> 01:01:09,769
We find the skulls
and the remains

1046
01:01:09,804 --> 01:01:11,391
and where we find that...

1047
01:01:12,013 --> 01:01:14,394
is right here.

1048
01:01:15,879 --> 01:01:18,882
We did find the pelvis
and one femur

1049
01:01:18,916 --> 01:01:22,299
on a cow trail,
partially buried.

1050
01:01:22,333 --> 01:01:24,819
I did find Aaron's cell phone.

1051
01:01:24,853 --> 01:01:29,824
A jacket, like what you're
wearing, a thin jacket.

1052
01:01:29,858 --> 01:01:30,997
Any pants?

1053
01:01:31,032 --> 01:01:32,516
Pants? No.

1054
01:01:32,550 --> 01:01:34,242
I don't believe
we found any pants.

1055
01:01:34,276 --> 01:01:35,726
- I can't remember.
- Socks?

1056
01:01:37,624 --> 01:01:40,593
No, because we didn't find
any feet.

1057
01:01:41,421 --> 01:01:42,526
No feet?

1058
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:43,803
Right.

1059
01:01:43,838 --> 01:01:46,495
Did any of his bones appear
to be broken like his femurs?

1060
01:01:46,530 --> 01:01:47,704
No.

1061
01:01:47,738 --> 01:01:50,707
Did the coroner come up
with any cause of death?

1062
01:01:51,569 --> 01:01:52,605
No.

1063
01:02:00,958 --> 01:02:02,926
He could have seen the creek?

1064
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:05,687
Yes, he could
have seen the creek.

1065
01:02:05,722 --> 01:02:07,689
So, there he had water.

1066
01:02:07,724 --> 01:02:10,278
I understand that there was also
a lighter in his backpack?

1067
01:02:10,312 --> 01:02:12,176
I think so, yeah, probably.

1068
01:02:12,211 --> 01:02:13,730
So, he could have made fire.

1069
01:02:15,145 --> 01:02:16,663
He had a gun,
he could have signaled help.

1070
01:02:18,079 --> 01:02:19,597
He had food,
e could have eaten.

1071
01:02:20,253 --> 01:02:21,427
Well, you're a nurse.

1072
01:02:21,461 --> 01:02:22,704
Yes.

1073
01:02:22,739 --> 01:02:25,742
So, you understand hypothermia
and how it affects the body.

1074
01:02:26,570 --> 01:02:27,951
That distance...

1075
01:02:27,985 --> 01:02:29,780
Somebody said,
"Well, he was hypothermic

1076
01:02:29,815 --> 01:02:32,300
way back at the falls.
That's why he took his boots off."

1077
01:02:32,334 --> 01:02:34,543
Okay, great,
we're hypothermic then.

1078
01:02:34,578 --> 01:02:36,960
How in the heck are you going to
make it all that distance?

1079
01:02:36,994 --> 01:02:38,582
You know,
that's the other thing.

1080
01:02:38,616 --> 01:02:41,619
If he was hypothermic,
why didn't he drop his bow?

1081
01:02:43,104 --> 01:02:44,415
Why was he still packing it?

1082
01:02:44,450 --> 01:02:47,280
That's a heavy thing to be
packing in your backpack.

1083
01:02:49,110 --> 01:02:50,628
This all doesn't add up to me.

1084
01:02:51,112 --> 01:02:52,251
Nope.

1085
01:02:52,285 --> 01:02:53,839
Does it add up
to you in any way?

1086
01:02:54,978 --> 01:02:56,289
No.

1087
01:02:56,945 --> 01:02:59,983
No. You go through

1088
01:03:00,017 --> 01:03:02,399
your lost person behavior,

1089
01:03:02,433 --> 01:03:06,644
your behavior is,
exposure takes a hold of you

1090
01:03:07,473 --> 01:03:08,474
and...

1091
01:03:10,165 --> 01:03:13,203
it just...
None of it makes any sense.

1092
01:03:17,794 --> 01:03:20,969
There's two things that bothered
me most about the Hedges' case.

1093
01:03:21,004 --> 01:03:22,350
First I'd like to know

1094
01:03:22,384 --> 01:03:25,146
what caused Aaron to change
course so drastically?

1095
01:03:25,180 --> 01:03:27,286
Even if he had missed
the turn to the cache,

1096
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:29,115
he'd eventually known
he had gone too far

1097
01:03:29,150 --> 01:03:32,809
merely by the fact that he's
walking adjacent to the creek

1098
01:03:32,843 --> 01:03:34,293
that's flowing downhill,

1099
01:03:34,327 --> 01:03:37,296
away from the location
he's supposed to be in.

1100
01:03:37,330 --> 01:03:40,506
This was an experienced
hunter who hunted here often.

1101
01:03:40,540 --> 01:03:43,509
And this was a full two days
before any bad weather.

1102
01:03:44,372 --> 01:03:45,718
The second major issue

1103
01:03:45,752 --> 01:03:48,307
is his body being found
six miles from the falls,

1104
01:03:48,341 --> 01:03:52,345
where he apparently shed his boots
under the theory of extreme hypothermia.

1105
01:03:53,174 --> 01:03:54,623
Somehow, while hypothermic,

1106
01:03:54,658 --> 01:03:56,522
he carries his bow,
his backpack,

1107
01:03:56,556 --> 01:03:58,973
a jacket, his cell phone
and thermos

1108
01:03:59,007 --> 01:04:02,666
six miles through a foot and a
half to three feet of fresh snow

1109
01:04:02,700 --> 01:04:03,978
with no shoes.

1110
01:04:05,151 --> 01:04:07,671
Then sits on a rock
overlooking safety.

1111
01:04:09,052 --> 01:04:10,501
His remains were found 11 miles

1112
01:04:10,536 --> 01:04:12,538
from the camp
he was supposed to return to.

1113
01:04:14,712 --> 01:04:15,748
It's too much.

1114
01:04:16,922 --> 01:04:18,371
This is one strange case.

1115
01:04:20,857 --> 01:04:22,651
I never take those mountains
for granted.

1116
01:04:22,686 --> 01:04:25,516
Every time I drive home
from the East,

1117
01:04:25,551 --> 01:04:28,865
it's like, "There they are.
There's our mountains."

1118
01:04:28,899 --> 01:04:30,142
It's the best place on Earth.

1119
01:04:30,176 --> 01:04:32,075
You know, it's the prettiest
place on Earth.

1120
01:04:32,109 --> 01:04:33,559
We're prejudiced.

1121
01:05:19,329 --> 01:05:20,778
Where we are, here in Sonora,

1122
01:05:20,813 --> 01:05:24,403
you see
the remnants of the 1800s

1123
01:05:24,437 --> 01:05:26,439
in just about every place.

1124
01:05:26,474 --> 01:05:28,579
It's an old mining town.

1125
01:05:34,861 --> 01:05:39,418
Sonora is kind of at the lower
foothills of the mountain.

1126
01:05:39,452 --> 01:05:41,627
And as you head Eastbound,

1127
01:05:41,661 --> 01:05:43,974
heading up into the forest,

1128
01:05:44,009 --> 01:05:47,046
the dense,
you know, wild forests

1129
01:05:47,081 --> 01:05:48,634
where there is no more cities,

1130
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:51,602
it becomes even clearer to you

1131
01:05:51,637 --> 01:05:54,778
that this place is not like
other places.

1132
01:05:54,812 --> 01:05:58,989
There is sort of
a strange sense of mystery

1133
01:05:59,024 --> 01:06:00,094
that abounds.

1134
01:06:14,798 --> 01:06:16,351
My name is Giuseppe Ricapito.

1135
01:06:16,386 --> 01:06:18,698
I am a police
and courts reporter

1136
01:06:18,733 --> 01:06:20,631
here at The Union Democrat
newspaper

1137
01:06:20,666 --> 01:06:23,013
in Sonora,
Tuolumne County, California.

1138
01:06:23,048 --> 01:06:26,637
So, in a county like this,
do you have a lot of homicides?

1139
01:06:27,466 --> 01:06:29,157
Not necessarily.

1140
01:06:29,192 --> 01:06:32,091
There's been a handful,

1141
01:06:32,126 --> 01:06:33,644
maybe in the past
couple of years

1142
01:06:33,679 --> 01:06:36,854
and none of them were unsolved.

1143
01:06:36,889 --> 01:06:40,444
Your county goes all the way up into
the high mountain area, correct?

1144
01:06:40,479 --> 01:06:42,377
Yeah, it spreads
all the way over

1145
01:06:42,412 --> 01:06:44,655
into the Sierra
Nevada mountain range

1146
01:06:44,690 --> 01:06:47,037
all the way to Sonora Pass.

1147
01:06:47,072 --> 01:06:50,834
There's a gorgeous lookout up there.
Tell us about that.

1148
01:06:50,868 --> 01:06:53,664
If you are
traveling up that corridor

1149
01:06:53,699 --> 01:06:56,736
which passes through
the county, Highway 108,

1150
01:06:56,771 --> 01:07:00,016
you basically advance
up a steep grade.

1151
01:07:02,915 --> 01:07:06,677
You're fascinated by, like,
how lush it is, right?

1152
01:07:06,712 --> 01:07:09,232
The wildlife, the trees.

1153
01:07:09,266 --> 01:07:13,167
And as you wind up further
and further up this grade,

1154
01:07:13,201 --> 01:07:16,515
you get the feeling like you've lost
it, or you're lost,

1155
01:07:16,549 --> 01:07:21,002
like you're never going to find
it, because it's a single turn off,

1156
01:07:21,037 --> 01:07:23,936
a single sign
pointing you to the left.

1157
01:07:27,733 --> 01:07:29,045
It's called Donnell Vista.

1158
01:07:29,079 --> 01:07:32,496
And, it's sort of,
I've been thinking about it.

1159
01:07:32,531 --> 01:07:34,567
It's, like, etched
into the mountain side.

1160
01:07:38,192 --> 01:07:40,608
If you're standing there
at the lookout point, right,

1161
01:07:40,642 --> 01:07:42,713
and you're
overlooking that area,

1162
01:07:42,748 --> 01:07:46,890
you're seeing these crags of
rock jutting out

1163
01:07:46,924 --> 01:07:51,377
and I couldn't even
tell you how far

1164
01:07:51,412 --> 01:07:54,622
the blips of a river
far down below.

1165
01:07:56,658 --> 01:07:58,798
As you look over,
you say to yourself,

1166
01:07:58,833 --> 01:08:01,422
"If you fall down here,
you're not going to survive."

1167
01:08:15,608 --> 01:08:17,231
We just left the vista.

1168
01:08:17,265 --> 01:08:18,818
Just a quarter mile East,

1169
01:08:18,853 --> 01:08:22,098
Breck Phelps' vehicle was found

1170
01:08:22,132 --> 01:08:23,168
at this turnout.

1171
01:08:24,790 --> 01:08:28,380
Under the small, old dirt road,

1172
01:08:28,414 --> 01:08:30,658
that eventually leads
and turns into a trail

1173
01:08:30,692 --> 01:08:32,522
down by the Stanislaus river.

1174
01:08:47,157 --> 01:08:50,160
His pastor found
the vehicle here

1175
01:08:50,195 --> 01:08:53,612
because he knew Breck had fished
here in the past.

1176
01:08:53,646 --> 01:08:55,786
And that's where
the search started.

1177
01:08:55,821 --> 01:08:59,273
They brought in Cobra
helicopters, four dog teams.

1178
01:08:59,307 --> 01:09:00,653
There was even some bad weather

1179
01:09:00,688 --> 01:09:03,139
that hindered the search
for a short period of time.

1180
01:09:04,864 --> 01:09:09,179
They found nothing after many
days of looking for the man.

1181
01:09:09,214 --> 01:09:10,525
He was never found.

1182
01:09:14,046 --> 01:09:18,119
The strangest thing about
Breck Phelps' disappearance

1183
01:09:18,154 --> 01:09:21,640
was that it seemed to align
or parallel itself

1184
01:09:21,674 --> 01:09:23,504
to the previous disappearances

1185
01:09:23,538 --> 01:09:25,816
that had happened
in that same region.

1186
01:09:25,851 --> 01:09:28,681
Patti Sue Tolhurst
and Nita Mayo

1187
01:09:28,716 --> 01:09:33,030
both commonly like Breck
Phelps, left their car,

1188
01:09:33,065 --> 01:09:35,688
within a quarter mile
of that vista point.

1189
01:09:41,073 --> 01:09:44,352
The true oddity
of this location

1190
01:09:44,387 --> 01:09:46,354
is that we have three people

1191
01:09:46,389 --> 01:09:48,839
in eleven years
that have disappeared

1192
01:09:48,874 --> 01:09:51,048
from essentially one spot.

1193
01:09:51,773 --> 01:09:54,190
That is very odd.

1194
01:09:54,224 --> 01:09:58,504
It's easy to say
these people slipped on a rock

1195
01:09:58,539 --> 01:10:01,162
and they fell into
the river canyon, right?

1196
01:10:01,197 --> 01:10:04,061
But then, why haven't we
found remains?

1197
01:10:05,339 --> 01:10:08,204
When you're walking
on the paved path,

1198
01:10:08,238 --> 01:10:11,345
you've got boulders
all around you.

1199
01:10:11,379 --> 01:10:15,211
And it's something that I've
written about hundreds of times.

1200
01:10:15,245 --> 01:10:16,522
You just can't ignore it.

1201
01:10:16,557 --> 01:10:18,869
And here,
it raises its face again

1202
01:10:18,904 --> 01:10:21,907
right amongst a cluster of
missing people.

1203
01:10:39,821 --> 01:10:43,100
Did you ask the Sheriff
what their feelings were?

1204
01:10:44,895 --> 01:10:47,139
The Sheriff's Office
doesn't like to speculate.

1205
01:10:47,173 --> 01:10:50,970
The Sheriff's Office is a real
cut and dry,

1206
01:10:51,005 --> 01:10:54,388
black and white,
we found him, or we didn't,

1207
01:10:54,422 --> 01:10:56,804
this case is open
until it's closed.

1208
01:10:56,838 --> 01:10:59,945
The one thing that I wanted to
bring up is, in April,

1209
01:10:59,979 --> 01:11:02,603
before the disappearance
of Breck Phelps.

1210
01:11:02,637 --> 01:11:05,744
In April 2016,
they did find human remains

1211
01:11:05,778 --> 01:11:07,918
over in that area.

1212
01:11:07,953 --> 01:11:11,612
They didn't match
Patti Sue Tolhurst,

1213
01:11:11,646 --> 01:11:12,958
not did they match Nita Mayo.

1214
01:11:12,992 --> 01:11:14,994
They tested the dental records.

1215
01:11:15,029 --> 01:11:17,894
It was just like,
what are these?

1216
01:11:17,928 --> 01:11:20,310
And this was before the
disappearance of Breck Phelps.

1217
01:11:20,345 --> 01:11:21,415
Did they ever ID the remains?

1218
01:11:21,449 --> 01:11:22,761
No.

1219
01:11:22,795 --> 01:11:24,003
So, we don't know who it was?

1220
01:11:24,038 --> 01:11:25,626
No.

1221
01:11:25,660 --> 01:11:28,111
People aren't talking about
this story anymore.

1222
01:11:28,145 --> 01:11:32,978
The news cycle being very, you
know, I'm doing two stories a day!

1223
01:11:33,012 --> 01:11:35,118
But if it does happen again,

1224
01:11:35,152 --> 01:11:37,741
people are going to be
reminded of these past stories

1225
01:11:37,776 --> 01:11:39,950
and it's going to
only increase speculation

1226
01:11:39,985 --> 01:11:44,127
and increase
the sense of concern.

1227
01:11:44,161 --> 01:11:47,958
Now, if you just step out
from this area a little further,

1228
01:11:47,993 --> 01:11:51,617
there's also a larger cluster

1229
01:11:51,652 --> 01:11:53,136
in geographical area

1230
01:11:53,170 --> 01:11:55,518
where there's
three people missing

1231
01:11:55,552 --> 01:11:57,934
so close
to Yosemite National Park

1232
01:11:57,968 --> 01:12:01,040
and the biggest cluster of
missing people in the world.

1233
01:12:02,214 --> 01:12:05,010
I don't know why,
I don't know where,

1234
01:12:05,493 --> 01:12:06,632
I don't know how,

1235
01:12:06,667 --> 01:12:10,395
but I don't think
it's a coincidence.

1236
01:12:12,397 --> 01:12:13,674
Now, within this region,

1237
01:12:13,708 --> 01:12:16,677
there's a hunting camp
dating back to the 1950s.

1238
01:12:16,711 --> 01:12:18,161
Over the years,

1239
01:12:18,195 --> 01:12:20,508
the hunters have experienced
something highly unusual.

1240
01:12:20,543 --> 01:12:24,270
And by proximity alone,
this is worth investigating.

1241
01:12:37,594 --> 01:12:40,563
And just so people can get
some idea,

1242
01:12:40,597 --> 01:12:42,668
we're not that far
outside Yosemite.

1243
01:12:42,703 --> 01:12:44,049
We're not far at all.

1244
01:12:44,083 --> 01:12:46,741
I tell people we're in
between Yosemite and Tahoe.

1245
01:12:47,432 --> 01:12:48,847
Yeah, that's where we are.

1246
01:12:48,881 --> 01:12:51,021
We're in a 6000 feet elevation,

1247
01:12:51,056 --> 01:12:53,369
you're hiking
close to 10000 feet

1248
01:12:53,403 --> 01:12:55,509
before you start dropping
back, you know, up and down.

1249
01:12:57,407 --> 01:13:00,376
The whole topography up there
changes every year,

1250
01:13:00,410 --> 01:13:02,205
you don't know what to expect.

1251
01:13:02,239 --> 01:13:04,207
You don't know what...
across the trail

1252
01:13:04,241 --> 01:13:05,588
that you have to work your
way around.

1253
01:13:05,622 --> 01:13:09,385
You really need to know
which trails to get here.

1254
01:13:09,419 --> 01:13:12,698
And if you don't know where it's
at, you'll never find it.

1255
01:13:12,733 --> 01:13:14,113
It's just one of those places.

1256
01:13:23,122 --> 01:13:25,918
What year did
the Sierra Camp start?

1257
01:13:27,230 --> 01:13:29,681
The camp's
been here since the 50s.

1258
01:13:29,715 --> 01:13:32,166
I didn't start coming
up till 1971.

1259
01:13:35,065 --> 01:13:37,309
And do you know what
brought 'em to this spot?

1260
01:13:39,138 --> 01:13:40,899
This is one
of those spots that

1261
01:13:40,933 --> 01:13:43,419
Warren used to say this is as close to
heaven as you think you'll ever get.

1262
01:13:48,941 --> 01:13:50,909
It's so remote.

1263
01:13:50,943 --> 01:13:54,084
The deer are plentiful.
There's a lot of bear up here.

1264
01:13:54,119 --> 01:13:57,018
It's pristine,
a lot of granite.

1265
01:13:58,261 --> 01:14:00,056
Fresh water coming right out of the ground,

1266
01:14:00,090 --> 01:14:01,954
especially where
the spring starts.

1267
01:14:01,989 --> 01:14:05,613
There's a lot of rivers and it's
just a gorgeous place to be in.

1268
01:14:10,618 --> 01:14:12,586
We're a very sober cap.

1269
01:14:12,620 --> 01:14:14,311
A very strict camp.

1270
01:14:14,346 --> 01:14:17,763
We don't unload
before you came into camp.

1271
01:14:17,798 --> 01:14:19,178
No alcohol in here.

1272
01:14:19,213 --> 01:14:22,250
It was really a quite
disciplined camp.

1273
01:14:22,285 --> 01:14:25,012
All the guys were
professional people,

1274
01:14:25,046 --> 01:14:27,566
so we kept going on up here.

1275
01:14:27,601 --> 01:14:28,774
What it was, we don't know,

1276
01:14:28,809 --> 01:14:32,502
but had it to ourselves
for a long time.

1277
01:14:32,537 --> 01:14:35,781
And what was the average success
rate for you guys coming up here?

1278
01:14:35,816 --> 01:14:38,128
The deer was
100 percent.

1279
01:14:38,163 --> 01:14:39,820
We never didn't get a deer.

1280
01:14:39,854 --> 01:14:41,994
It's that kind of a place.

1281
01:14:56,422 --> 01:14:59,874
We really didn't realize
what we were dealing with.

1282
01:14:59,909 --> 01:15:01,324
We still don't know
what we're dealing with,

1283
01:15:01,358 --> 01:15:03,395
but it's something
very unusual.

1284
01:15:05,052 --> 01:15:08,331
Strange things happened and
most of the stuff happened

1285
01:15:08,365 --> 01:15:12,093
in the evening time, just at
dusk, nightime, like now.

1286
01:15:16,512 --> 01:15:19,825
The first time I ever heard
anything was later in '71.

1287
01:15:19,860 --> 01:15:21,033
I came back up with the guys

1288
01:15:21,068 --> 01:15:25,141
and we were here by the stove.

1289
01:15:25,175 --> 01:15:27,005
There was a stove here then.

1290
01:15:27,039 --> 01:15:30,353
And as soon as it starts
getting dark, we'd go in.

1291
01:15:30,387 --> 01:15:32,838
Sometimes we might hear a grunt
or a whoop or...

1292
01:15:32,873 --> 01:15:34,495
or blowing sounds like that

1293
01:15:34,530 --> 01:15:37,567
and that's when you know you
want to get inside the shelter

1294
01:15:37,602 --> 01:15:39,327
because you still don't know
what you're dealing with.

1295
01:15:39,362 --> 01:15:42,538
Whatever it is, it's big.
Very, very big.

1296
01:15:42,572 --> 01:15:46,024
We would all go inside,
close the shelter's door

1297
01:15:46,058 --> 01:15:48,820
and that's a log we would put
in between these trees

1298
01:15:48,854 --> 01:15:51,029
and then strap it inside
with cable.

1299
01:15:51,063 --> 01:15:54,204
And then, they would start
making their sounds.

1300
01:15:54,239 --> 01:15:57,173
That was in 1971, when
I first started hearing them

1301
01:15:57,207 --> 01:15:58,692
and we started recording them.

1302
01:17:34,719 --> 01:17:37,342
We were all talking about,
"Maybe I can figure out a way out."

1303
01:17:37,376 --> 01:17:40,310
You're just sitting there
and all of you are petrified.

1304
01:17:40,345 --> 01:17:42,761
You're just waiting
for the wall to break open

1305
01:17:42,796 --> 01:17:44,487
and something to reach in there
and grab you.

1306
01:17:45,177 --> 01:17:46,696
Hold you up and...

1307
01:17:46,731 --> 01:17:49,147
Waiting for the light to break in
through the cracks of the walls

1308
01:17:49,181 --> 01:17:51,425
and it never happened.

1309
01:17:52,322 --> 01:17:53,703
That's the strange part,

1310
01:17:53,738 --> 01:17:56,223
'cause you hear it over there,
but you don't see it over there.

1311
01:17:57,362 --> 01:17:59,675
As time went on, '72,
same thing.

1312
01:17:59,709 --> 01:18:02,781
We thought something might be
trying to scare us out.

1313
01:18:02,816 --> 01:18:04,990
Maybe this is their territory.

1314
01:18:05,025 --> 01:18:06,682
We don't know, we can only guess

1315
01:18:06,716 --> 01:18:09,581
why they were doing
what they were doing.

1316
01:18:09,615 --> 01:18:12,688
But they were observing us,
that's for sure.

1317
01:18:20,696 --> 01:18:23,595
What we do know is that
their vocal range

1318
01:18:23,629 --> 01:18:26,771
is much greater
than human beings.

1319
01:18:27,772 --> 01:18:31,499
Their frequencies go way above

1320
01:18:31,534 --> 01:18:34,226
and way below
the abilities of humans.

1321
01:18:41,958 --> 01:18:45,410
I was trained in all
of the deceptive practices

1322
01:18:45,444 --> 01:18:48,137
in voice and communications.

1323
01:18:49,586 --> 01:18:52,210
Besides the fact
that you have the creatures

1324
01:18:52,244 --> 01:18:55,558
stepping on each other
in their conversational turns,

1325
01:18:56,386 --> 01:19:00,080
you have humans, like Ron,

1326
01:19:00,114 --> 01:19:03,600
stepping on the creatures
back and forth,

1327
01:19:04,429 --> 01:19:07,259
overlapping their voices
on the tapes.

1328
01:19:07,915 --> 01:19:09,296
It can't be faked.

1329
01:19:10,228 --> 01:19:12,230
Not in 1974.

1330
01:19:13,334 --> 01:19:15,889
Plus, it would be
extremely dangerous

1331
01:19:16,821 --> 01:19:18,408
to come up here at night,

1332
01:19:18,443 --> 01:19:21,411
into a camp
full of well armed hunters.

1333
01:19:21,446 --> 01:19:24,760
They don't go to bed at night
without their guns at their sides.

1334
01:19:26,071 --> 01:19:28,246
It's ridiculous to think of it.

1335
01:19:28,280 --> 01:19:29,626
You wouldn't do it.
You wouldn't do it

1336
01:19:29,661 --> 01:19:31,663
just to hoax a bunch of
hunters up here.

1337
01:19:32,837 --> 01:19:35,736
So, from a 100 percent
factual standpoint,

1338
01:19:35,771 --> 01:19:40,845
we really don't know what's
making these language sounds.

1339
01:19:41,535 --> 01:19:43,606
That's right. We don't know.

1340
01:19:50,786 --> 01:19:55,480
One time I heard a sound like
a huge tuning fork

1341
01:19:55,514 --> 01:19:58,932
above us and couldn't
find the source of it.

1342
01:19:58,966 --> 01:20:01,348
It was just a big sound
like that.

1343
01:20:04,282 --> 01:20:06,111
Sometimes you hear
a sound out here

1344
01:20:06,146 --> 01:20:09,805
and one time we thought our camp
was being torn apart by something.

1345
01:20:09,839 --> 01:20:11,220
We thought the barrels

1346
01:20:11,254 --> 01:20:14,499
that we packed in was being
torn up and tossed around.

1347
01:20:14,533 --> 01:20:17,191
When we came out when all the
commotion and sound had stopped,

1348
01:20:17,226 --> 01:20:19,469
nothing changed.

1349
01:20:19,504 --> 01:20:21,506
Now, how do you explain that,
you know?

1350
01:20:21,540 --> 01:20:24,440
One time, when I was in there,
I thought I heard a car door slam.

1351
01:20:24,474 --> 01:20:26,407
Now, we're
eight miles into wilderness.

1352
01:20:27,546 --> 01:20:30,273
So, aside from the sounds,

1353
01:20:30,308 --> 01:20:32,862
you also saw some things
in the sky and the air?

1354
01:20:32,897 --> 01:20:35,382
Yeah, lights.

1355
01:20:36,003 --> 01:20:38,281
You know, orbs.

1356
01:20:38,316 --> 01:20:41,353
All the guys have reported orbs
when I wasn't here.

1357
01:20:42,699 --> 01:20:46,186
Me and my friend Bill saw one
night was a big blue ball

1358
01:20:46,220 --> 01:20:47,808
coming down from up here.

1359
01:20:47,843 --> 01:20:49,845
Slowly moving,
definitely controlled.

1360
01:20:49,879 --> 01:20:52,330
It had some type
of intelligence around it.

1361
01:20:52,364 --> 01:20:54,125
You know, if you were
just looking up there,

1362
01:20:54,159 --> 01:20:56,023
you would think it was the moon.

1363
01:20:56,058 --> 01:20:57,749
But it was blue.

1364
01:20:57,783 --> 01:21:01,166
It was moving down. We lost it behind
the trees and it went over there.

1365
01:21:01,201 --> 01:21:02,478
I don't know
what to think of it.

1366
01:21:02,512 --> 01:21:04,860
You don't know what to think of
any of this stuff.

1367
01:21:08,415 --> 01:21:09,554
We were in a tent

1368
01:21:09,588 --> 01:21:13,040
and it almost wasn't this dark.

1369
01:21:13,075 --> 01:21:15,318
But this thing,
whatever it was

1370
01:21:15,353 --> 01:21:17,976
just comes and starts
moving up behind us.

1371
01:21:18,011 --> 01:21:21,600
An elongated light,
probably about three-foot long,

1372
01:21:21,635 --> 01:21:23,740
probably about that big around

1373
01:21:23,775 --> 01:21:27,675
and just a rod of light.

1374
01:21:27,710 --> 01:21:30,437
I tell people
when I talk about it

1375
01:21:30,471 --> 01:21:33,647
that it's like
a Star Warssaber.

1376
01:21:35,200 --> 01:21:39,239
Like, glowing, but not bright
glowing. Just glowing.

1377
01:21:39,273 --> 01:21:42,035
And it just moved slowly
through the trees.

1378
01:21:42,069 --> 01:21:43,588
Definitely controlled.

1379
01:21:43,622 --> 01:21:46,591
And dissipated over here.

1380
01:21:50,733 --> 01:21:52,390
Is it embarrassing
to talk about?

1381
01:21:52,838 --> 01:21:54,047
No, I don't care.

1382
01:21:55,255 --> 01:21:56,981
Now nothing bothers me.

1383
01:21:58,775 --> 01:22:00,605
What makes you
keep coming back?

1384
01:22:03,401 --> 01:22:04,920
The mystery that's still here.

1385
01:22:04,954 --> 01:22:07,405
There's still a mystery
that needs to be solved

1386
01:22:07,439 --> 01:22:09,786
or understood.

1387
01:22:09,821 --> 01:22:14,895
And I'm here now
because you're here.

1388
01:22:14,930 --> 01:22:17,933
I've been asked multiple times
to be brought up here

1389
01:22:17,967 --> 01:22:19,106
by different people,

1390
01:22:19,141 --> 01:22:21,246
and I've turned them down

1391
01:22:21,281 --> 01:22:23,041
basically because
I don't want this area,

1392
01:22:23,076 --> 01:22:24,249
such pristine areas

1393
01:22:24,284 --> 01:22:26,493
to be exposed
to a bunch of researchers

1394
01:22:26,527 --> 01:22:29,599
just come up here
and inundating the area.

1395
01:22:29,634 --> 01:22:33,431
And I'm also told that the
hunters that still come up

1396
01:22:33,465 --> 01:22:36,089
and their offspring
could still hunt the area.

1397
01:22:36,123 --> 01:22:39,437
You know, they'll all kind of
keep it very private

1398
01:22:39,471 --> 01:22:41,094
as much as possible.

1399
01:22:41,128 --> 01:22:45,546
Our shelter, although, has been
dismantled now, years ago.

1400
01:22:46,306 --> 01:22:47,893
It's still a place to come to.

1401
01:23:03,323 --> 01:23:07,499
Nothing surprises me.
Nothing up here.

1402
01:23:07,534 --> 01:23:10,261
Why this is such a strange
place I have no idea,

1403
01:23:10,295 --> 01:23:14,713
but it is
a very interesting area.

1404
01:23:25,379 --> 01:23:29,625
We spent seven days with
Ron and Scott at the Sierra camp.

1405
01:23:29,659 --> 01:23:32,524
Now, although we didn't
experience anything paranormal,

1406
01:23:33,180 --> 01:23:35,872
this area holds many secrets.

1407
01:23:35,907 --> 01:23:37,081
That we know for sure.

1408
01:23:46,262 --> 01:23:47,746
The last case
I want to investigate

1409
01:23:47,781 --> 01:23:50,059
is even a little deeper
down the rabbit hole.

1410
01:23:52,372 --> 01:23:53,718
It's not about
a missing hunter,

1411
01:23:53,752 --> 01:23:55,651
but instead, about
a strange experience

1412
01:23:55,685 --> 01:23:58,171
one hunter faced in Lima, Ohio.

1413
01:23:58,205 --> 01:24:01,553
It's important to know that this
isn't a connection to the missing.

1414
01:24:01,588 --> 01:24:05,143
It's simply an odd event
that's worth looking into.

1415
01:24:05,178 --> 01:24:09,630
And it's associated with one of
the smartest people I've ever met.

1416
01:24:12,392 --> 01:24:13,876
There's a difference, I guess,

1417
01:24:13,910 --> 01:24:16,534
between being freaked out
by things that you imagine

1418
01:24:16,568 --> 01:24:19,054
and being freaked out by things
that you actually see.

1419
01:24:22,471 --> 01:24:24,921
This, I have to say,
was the most...

1420
01:24:26,268 --> 01:24:27,717
terrifying experience, but yeah,

1421
01:24:27,752 --> 01:24:29,754
I don't know why I didn't react
to it and that bothers me.

1422
01:24:43,940 --> 01:24:46,081
Hunting in Ohio
is awesome.

1423
01:24:46,115 --> 01:24:49,532
We have some great, big
trophy deer in Ohio

1424
01:24:49,567 --> 01:24:50,740
and we happen to have

1425
01:24:50,775 --> 01:24:53,226
some of the biggest right
here on our own property.

1426
01:25:16,835 --> 01:25:18,768
It was the most beautiful
night to deer hunt.

1427
01:25:18,803 --> 01:25:20,115
It was the second day
of season.

1428
01:25:20,149 --> 01:25:23,256
I wanted to get into
the woods to hunt.

1429
01:25:23,290 --> 01:25:24,774
I was very excited about it.

1430
01:25:29,503 --> 01:25:32,679
There was band,
over at the high school.

1431
01:25:34,819 --> 01:25:37,062
By the time I got to my deer
stand, I could hear 'em.

1432
01:25:40,790 --> 01:25:41,964
I was all settled in.

1433
01:25:41,998 --> 01:25:43,621
Didn't see nothing coming
down the pass.

1434
01:25:43,655 --> 01:25:46,658
Trails of birds, crickets,
everything was normal wood sounds.

1435
01:25:48,522 --> 01:25:49,937
When you're hunting,

1436
01:25:49,972 --> 01:25:52,457
you have two
of your keenest senses.

1437
01:25:52,492 --> 01:25:54,149
It's your hearing
and your eyesight.

1438
01:25:58,222 --> 01:26:01,846
All of a sudden, the woods
went to this dead quiet.

1439
01:26:05,021 --> 01:26:07,541
If I had dropped a pin,
I know that deer would stand.

1440
01:26:09,681 --> 01:26:10,855
They had cut off.

1441
01:26:10,889 --> 01:26:13,823
No birds, no crickets,
no nothing.

1442
01:26:15,308 --> 01:26:16,619
With the sun still up,

1443
01:26:16,654 --> 01:26:18,518
we were not calling for
bad weather that night.

1444
01:26:18,552 --> 01:26:19,933
It was a great night to hunt.

1445
01:26:22,522 --> 01:26:25,283
All of a sudden,
I thought I had a mote in my eye.

1446
01:26:25,318 --> 01:26:27,699
I even took my finger
and rubbed my eye, like,

1447
01:26:27,734 --> 01:26:29,322
when you get that fogginess
over your eye,

1448
01:26:29,356 --> 01:26:30,840
like, it's just...

1449
01:26:30,875 --> 01:26:32,497
I look and I'm thinking,

1450
01:26:32,532 --> 01:26:34,568
"What is this thing
in the trees?"

1451
01:26:36,087 --> 01:26:39,539
It looked like a large piece
of Saran Wrap.

1452
01:26:39,573 --> 01:26:40,919
It's the only way
I can describe it.

1453
01:26:40,954 --> 01:26:42,335
But this thing was very wide.

1454
01:26:42,369 --> 01:26:46,339
'Cause I'm up 14 foot
and it hung quite a ways down

1455
01:26:46,373 --> 01:26:47,788
and I'm thinking...

1456
01:26:48,375 --> 01:26:49,583
"What is this thing?"

1457
01:26:50,688 --> 01:26:52,862
It didn't really scare me
at that time,

1458
01:26:52,897 --> 01:26:54,933
until it moved and formed

1459
01:26:54,968 --> 01:26:57,695
the arm that reached over
to the other tree.

1460
01:26:57,729 --> 01:27:00,525
It reached over
about 12 to 14 foot.

1461
01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:04,219
And then, it all, like a
blob, sucked into it.

1462
01:27:04,253 --> 01:27:05,910
And it went to
a whole other tree.

1463
01:27:07,291 --> 01:27:09,258
I had this very important
feeling, like,

1464
01:27:09,293 --> 01:27:11,260
something ain't right here.

1465
01:27:12,779 --> 01:27:14,712
Normally at that time, I would
have probably got down

1466
01:27:14,746 --> 01:27:16,403
and stopped hunting,

1467
01:27:16,438 --> 01:27:17,784
but for some reason, I didn't.

1468
01:27:18,957 --> 01:27:20,959
So, as you're sitting
in your blind,

1469
01:27:20,994 --> 01:27:22,720
and you're looking across,

1470
01:27:22,754 --> 01:27:25,723
where did the blob come from?

1471
01:27:25,757 --> 01:27:29,692
I have no idea.
It just appeared in the one tree.

1472
01:27:29,727 --> 01:27:31,763
As it was moving
through the woods,

1473
01:27:31,798 --> 01:27:33,972
it went from tree
to tree to tree

1474
01:27:34,007 --> 01:27:35,974
and then it just disappeared.

1475
01:27:36,630 --> 01:27:38,632
It didn't continue on.

1476
01:27:38,667 --> 01:27:40,255
So, where it went I don't know,

1477
01:27:40,289 --> 01:27:43,154
but it just... Right before my
eyes, just vanished.

1478
01:27:45,190 --> 01:27:48,435
And I don't remember
taking the picture,

1479
01:27:48,470 --> 01:27:52,577
but being married to who I'm married
to, Dr. Bruce Maccabee,

1480
01:27:52,612 --> 01:27:56,098
he always said, "If you see
anything weird, get a picture."

1481
01:27:59,619 --> 01:28:05,418
I don't recall actually when either
that the sounds had returned.

1482
01:28:05,452 --> 01:28:07,834
It's just like I don't remember.

1483
01:28:10,457 --> 01:28:11,907
That's not me to this day.

1484
01:28:11,941 --> 01:28:13,736
Normally, I would probably
crawl down,

1485
01:28:13,771 --> 01:28:15,428
come around the house and say,

1486
01:28:15,462 --> 01:28:17,326
"You ain't going to believe
what's back there in the woods."

1487
01:28:17,361 --> 01:28:19,880
How much longer do you
think you stayed in the stand?

1488
01:28:21,330 --> 01:28:24,989
About half hour till sundown.
It was time to come out.

1489
01:28:29,649 --> 01:28:31,444
The strange part about this is,

1490
01:28:31,478 --> 01:28:32,859
Jan goes off to hunt,

1491
01:28:33,998 --> 01:28:36,621
we have guests show up,
we're having dinner.

1492
01:28:36,656 --> 01:28:38,002
She comes back from the hunt

1493
01:28:38,036 --> 01:28:40,315
and says nothing about what
happened. It was strange.

1494
01:28:41,695 --> 01:28:44,111
The guests are
about ready to leave.

1495
01:28:44,146 --> 01:28:47,149
Later on, Matthew sends me
an e-mail.

1496
01:28:47,183 --> 01:28:49,151
There was sighting
by a number of students

1497
01:28:49,185 --> 01:28:51,809
and faculty in the high school
band practice,

1498
01:28:51,843 --> 01:28:53,328
just before dark.

1499
01:28:53,914 --> 01:28:55,330
I'm like, "Holy crap.

1500
01:28:55,364 --> 01:28:57,918
Maybe it has something to do
with what I saw in the woods."

1501
01:28:58,643 --> 01:28:59,851
And Bruce goes, "What?"

1502
01:29:00,231 --> 01:29:01,646
And I said,

1503
01:29:01,681 --> 01:29:05,547
"I forgot to tell you what happened
in those woods to me tonight."

1504
01:29:05,581 --> 01:29:07,618
And I'm reading
this from Matthew

1505
01:29:07,652 --> 01:29:09,999
and then I start
getting goosebumps.

1506
01:29:10,034 --> 01:29:11,829
He said
this light appeared above

1507
01:29:11,863 --> 01:29:15,039
like big stadium lights
in the football field.

1508
01:29:15,073 --> 01:29:16,799
Had Matthew
not sent that e-mail,

1509
01:29:16,834 --> 01:29:20,251
I'm not sure if I would have remembered
even that night to say anything.

1510
01:29:22,391 --> 01:29:24,013
How many kids
were on the field?

1511
01:29:24,048 --> 01:29:26,395
At least 30.
Thirty to forty I would say.

1512
01:29:26,430 --> 01:29:27,845
And was that
the high school band?

1513
01:29:27,879 --> 01:29:29,571
Yes.

1514
01:29:29,605 --> 01:29:31,849
And so, this was just before
you guys went back to school?

1515
01:29:31,883 --> 01:29:33,989
Yes, band camp.

1516
01:29:34,023 --> 01:29:35,818
- Late August.
- Late August?

1517
01:29:35,853 --> 01:29:38,027
So, what time at night
do you think that was?

1518
01:29:38,890 --> 01:29:40,202
Between six and seven.

1519
01:29:40,236 --> 01:29:42,998
We were rehearsing
normally out here

1520
01:29:43,032 --> 01:29:45,000
about six or seven o'clock,

1521
01:29:45,034 --> 01:29:47,278
doing our normal routine.

1522
01:29:47,312 --> 01:29:49,660
When, all of a sudden, there was
this bright light in the sky

1523
01:29:49,694 --> 01:29:51,386
that just came out of nowhere.

1524
01:29:53,042 --> 01:29:55,390
And we all just kind of stopped
and looked at it as one.

1525
01:29:56,529 --> 01:29:58,116
Where was the light?

1526
01:29:58,151 --> 01:30:01,603
So, the light was anywhere...

1527
01:30:01,637 --> 01:30:03,052
It was above
the treeline for sure,

1528
01:30:03,087 --> 01:30:05,917
just kind of hovering
in the skyline.

1529
01:30:06,918 --> 01:30:08,782
Close enough for it
to catch your attention.

1530
01:30:10,405 --> 01:30:11,785
Like, it shouldn't have been
there, I guess.

1531
01:30:11,820 --> 01:30:13,442
If it was some man made thing,

1532
01:30:13,477 --> 01:30:14,926
it was too low to be there.

1533
01:30:16,341 --> 01:30:19,241
Okay, what was the weather
like that night?

1534
01:30:19,275 --> 01:30:20,725
Clear and hot.

1535
01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:22,140
Typical August Ohio weather.

1536
01:30:22,175 --> 01:30:24,522
Okay,
what color was it?

1537
01:30:24,557 --> 01:30:25,799
Candle orange.

1538
01:30:25,834 --> 01:30:27,042
As far as I can tell,

1539
01:30:27,076 --> 01:30:28,906
the thing had
no definable edges to it.

1540
01:30:28,940 --> 01:30:30,079
There were no,
like, dimensions.

1541
01:30:30,114 --> 01:30:32,737
It was just kind of waxing
and waning

1542
01:30:32,772 --> 01:30:34,463
till it zapped out.

1543
01:30:34,498 --> 01:30:36,707
You know, our band director,
he never stops for anything.

1544
01:30:36,741 --> 01:30:39,468
He stopped and turned around
and looked at this and goes,

1545
01:30:39,503 --> 01:30:41,263
"What the hell was that?"

1546
01:30:41,297 --> 01:30:44,266
Before I had time to even think
of what I was seeing, it was gone.

1547
01:30:44,300 --> 01:30:46,268
And then it was just kind of
an imprint in your mind,

1548
01:30:46,302 --> 01:30:47,959
like I've seen
something strange.

1549
01:30:51,446 --> 01:30:55,484
So, in your gut,
are the two issues related?

1550
01:30:55,519 --> 01:30:58,107
I often wonder now.

1551
01:30:58,142 --> 01:31:00,282
All I can say is it happened
within the same time frame

1552
01:31:00,316 --> 01:31:03,112
basically as
my experience here.

1553
01:31:03,147 --> 01:31:06,046
About half a mile over there,
as the crow would fly.

1554
01:31:07,600 --> 01:31:09,498
This is a Blackberry.

1555
01:31:10,775 --> 01:31:13,260
On the back it has the lens.

1556
01:31:13,295 --> 01:31:14,607
It's not like the modern ones.

1557
01:31:14,641 --> 01:31:18,300
It has a camera on the front
and a camera at the back.

1558
01:31:18,334 --> 01:31:20,198
Though I'd be taking
your picture right now,

1559
01:31:20,233 --> 01:31:21,993
but I would not be
taking my picture.

1560
01:31:22,856 --> 01:31:24,617
Something happened
to the camera.

1561
01:31:24,651 --> 01:31:26,308
I don't know what.

1562
01:31:26,342 --> 01:31:29,484
But there's hard evidence of
some weird thing that happened.

1563
01:31:29,518 --> 01:31:32,694
She took a couple of pictures
of herself before the event,

1564
01:31:32,728 --> 01:31:37,457
which provided a fixed point of
investigation, you might say.

1565
01:31:37,492 --> 01:31:39,666
And she took
another picture afterwards.

1566
01:31:39,701 --> 01:31:42,842
So you have the camera phone
doing its normal thing

1567
01:31:42,876 --> 01:31:44,326
before and after,

1568
01:31:44,360 --> 01:31:47,640
but right in the middle,
with this one photo,

1569
01:31:47,674 --> 01:31:50,194
something bizarre happened.

1570
01:31:50,228 --> 01:31:54,129
The picture she took,
the resolution somehow changed

1571
01:31:54,163 --> 01:31:55,510
for that one picture.

1572
01:31:58,029 --> 01:32:01,930
You could manually change the
cellphone 1600x1200,

1573
01:32:02,758 --> 01:32:05,520
1024x760,
or something like that.

1574
01:32:05,554 --> 01:32:07,383
And 640X480.

1575
01:32:07,418 --> 01:32:11,008
But it got changed
to 500X400 or something.

1576
01:32:11,042 --> 01:32:13,010
Numbers that don't exist.

1577
01:32:13,044 --> 01:32:15,840
I don't know how to
make it do that resolution.

1578
01:32:15,875 --> 01:32:18,740
You have to get it out
and re-wire it somehow,

1579
01:32:18,774 --> 01:32:20,224
or it changed the software.

1580
01:32:20,949 --> 01:32:22,364
But even changing the software

1581
01:32:22,398 --> 01:32:26,368
doesn't change the pixels
along the edge of the sensor.

1582
01:32:26,402 --> 01:32:29,405
I don't know how to explain
this film imagery stuff.

1583
01:32:29,440 --> 01:32:33,893
I can't imagine what this...
what it looks like well focused.

1584
01:32:33,927 --> 01:32:35,273
I don't know what that is.

1585
01:32:37,068 --> 01:32:39,105
I've had people
write to me and say

1586
01:32:39,139 --> 01:32:43,385
"What that is is that Jan took
a picture of her own hair."

1587
01:32:43,419 --> 01:32:46,595
My hair was back. Through the
back of the ball cap.

1588
01:32:47,872 --> 01:32:50,392
Where it...
It was tied back.

1589
01:32:50,426 --> 01:32:52,946
So, there was no part of
you that could have been in that?

1590
01:32:52,981 --> 01:32:54,534
No way. No way.

1591
01:32:54,569 --> 01:32:56,571
It'll be possible for us
to take a picture,

1592
01:32:57,641 --> 01:33:00,264
of her hair,
if she put her hand back there.

1593
01:33:00,298 --> 01:33:02,577
But that wouldn't
change the resolution

1594
01:33:02,611 --> 01:33:05,925
of the camera or the
byte size of the picture.

1595
01:33:05,959 --> 01:33:07,202
So, Jan, let me ask you,

1596
01:33:07,236 --> 01:33:09,963
since that has happened,
has it changed your life?

1597
01:33:10,999 --> 01:33:12,587
Yeah, I've never been
back in that wood.

1598
01:33:12,621 --> 01:33:16,452
I actually ended up buying
a Redneck deer blind.

1599
01:33:16,487 --> 01:33:18,765
I mean, I want something
surrounding me.

1600
01:33:21,147 --> 01:33:23,321
Imagine if you
saw something in the woods

1601
01:33:23,356 --> 01:33:26,152
some strange thing like that
like the...

1602
01:33:26,186 --> 01:33:28,603
you'd probably be wary
of going back there, too.

1603
01:33:47,449 --> 01:33:49,624
When looking at
these cases individually,

1604
01:33:50,279 --> 01:33:52,627
Aaron Hedges, Tom Messick,

1605
01:33:53,351 --> 01:33:54,974
Mel Nadel,

1606
01:33:55,008 --> 01:33:58,805
it's easy to pass them off as
isolated strange occurrences.

1607
01:33:58,840 --> 01:34:00,289
Anomalies.

1608
01:34:00,324 --> 01:34:03,465
But when you look from
an informed perspective,

1609
01:34:03,499 --> 01:34:07,642
and you see hundreds of victims
falling in to same profile points

1610
01:34:07,676 --> 01:34:11,646
scattered throughout our national
forests and national parks,

1611
01:34:11,680 --> 01:34:14,338
you have to stop and
question the reality of it.

1612
01:34:15,995 --> 01:34:18,963
Is it possible for
an 82-year-old man

1613
01:34:18,998 --> 01:34:22,173
with heart, eye
and hearing issues

1614
01:34:22,208 --> 01:34:24,693
to simply vanish while
sitting alone in the woods?

1615
01:34:26,591 --> 01:34:31,527
Can a man with severe hypothermia
hike six miles through

1616
01:34:31,562 --> 01:34:34,254
a foot and a half to two feet
of snow with no shoes?

1617
01:34:35,600 --> 01:34:36,981
In many of the cases,

1618
01:34:37,016 --> 01:34:40,398
rifles, pistols and archery
equipment are never found.

1619
01:34:40,433 --> 01:34:44,195
These items don't blow away and
animals don't drag them off.

1620
01:34:45,714 --> 01:34:49,511
Sometimes, their remains are
found miles and miles off track,

1621
01:34:49,545 --> 01:34:53,032
where the victim had no
intention of ever going.

1622
01:34:53,066 --> 01:34:57,174
Often, they're found in an area
that's been searched dozens of times.

1623
01:34:57,208 --> 01:35:00,556
It's like they've been placed there
after the searchers have left.

1624
01:35:04,629 --> 01:35:05,734
To this point,

1625
01:35:05,769 --> 01:35:08,219
we've investigated close
to 1200 cases

1626
01:35:08,254 --> 01:35:10,739
that fit theMissing
411 profile.

1627
01:35:12,879 --> 01:35:14,605
They're not all hunters.

1628
01:35:14,639 --> 01:35:19,058
Some are children, some are people
vacationing in national parks,

1629
01:35:19,092 --> 01:35:22,717
some are just out taking
a walk in nature.

1630
01:35:22,751 --> 01:35:27,204
Each are beyond the scope of
normal scientific understanding.