1
00:00:11,410 --> 00:00:16,405
The double ending is okay.
Also, Moonie, watch those breakers.
2
00:00:16,716 --> 00:00:18,844
Very treacherous undertow there.
3
00:00:19,085 --> 00:00:21,247
It's just the
most dramatic thing to come out...
4
00:00:21,420 --> 00:00:23,446
...by the time
you give me another listen.
5
00:00:24,323 --> 00:00:26,952
With all that dynamic
lead guitar playing...
6
00:00:27,159 --> 00:00:29,594
...the drums would make
the best contrast against it.
7
00:00:29,762 --> 00:00:31,355
Being sent to the British Museum.
8
00:00:32,431 --> 00:00:34,593
My resignation, actually.
9
00:00:34,767 --> 00:00:37,601
It's interesting without
being... Picking the word to pieces.
10
00:00:37,803 --> 00:00:40,363
Maybe it's not the right word,
because "irreverence" suggests...
11
00:00:40,606 --> 00:00:43,269
...that you don't give a fuck
about what's already there.
12
00:00:43,476 --> 00:00:46,537
What was interesting is
that I think we all did.
13
00:00:46,779 --> 00:00:49,305
Us, from a...
14
00:00:49,515 --> 00:00:51,746
...middle class
and working class background...
15
00:00:51,951 --> 00:00:56,286
...and our audience being middle and
working class because we were postwar...
16
00:00:56,489 --> 00:00:59,755
...and that that actually meant
that the generation above us...
17
00:00:59,959 --> 00:01:02,724
...had real difficulties engaging with us.
18
00:01:02,895 --> 00:01:05,763
So you'd have terrible trouble
with schoolteachers and stuff.
19
00:01:05,965 --> 00:01:08,491
They would just expect you
to do what they said.
20
00:01:08,701 --> 00:01:12,001
And if you even didn't just...
You know, if you kind of...
21
00:01:12,204 --> 00:01:16,005
It wasn't necessarily you went out
of your way to disobey authority...
22
00:01:16,175 --> 00:01:19,634
...but if you didn't do it in the right
way, they would get angry with you.
23
00:01:19,845 --> 00:01:24,283
So you would end up with,
you know, situations of outright rebellion.
24
00:01:40,399 --> 00:01:42,368
♪ I'm going down ♪
25
00:01:43,202 --> 00:01:47,936
♪ I'm going down, down, down
Down, down ♪
26
00:01:48,674 --> 00:01:49,869
♪ Right now ♪
27
00:01:52,178 --> 00:01:53,942
♪ Going down ♪
28
00:01:55,247 --> 00:01:58,911
♪ Down, down, down, down, down ♪
29
00:02:11,063 --> 00:02:12,588
♪ Get down ♪
30
00:02:15,234 --> 00:02:17,032
♪ I'm going down ♪♪
31
00:02:34,286 --> 00:02:36,152
Running on seven.
32
00:02:37,389 --> 00:02:41,053
Because the drum... After the silence,
you come in with drums, Moonie, okay?
33
00:02:41,260 --> 00:02:43,786
Cut that, some of it.
Is it all right with you, Pete?
34
00:02:44,964 --> 00:02:48,093
I like your adlib yells and screams,
by the way.
35
00:02:48,300 --> 00:02:50,166
On the second time around,
that would be very effective.
36
00:02:55,107 --> 00:02:56,632
Okay, go.
37
00:02:57,309 --> 00:03:02,247
And this is, like,
'62 or something, '61, '62.
38
00:03:02,448 --> 00:03:05,418
And anyway, I had this sort of, like, um...
39
00:03:05,618 --> 00:03:07,177
...breakdown of some sort, right?
40
00:03:07,419 --> 00:03:10,651
I had, like, a fabulous apartment,
I had a car, you know?
41
00:03:10,890 --> 00:03:15,988
I had this huge sort of career really
moving ahead in the film business...
42
00:03:16,195 --> 00:03:21,634
...and I'm hanging out,
you know, and I'm just dissatisfied.
43
00:03:21,834 --> 00:03:24,167
I didn't really believe
anymore what I was doing.
44
00:03:24,403 --> 00:03:25,837
It became very superficial.
45
00:03:26,005 --> 00:03:28,338
I thought... I was looking
for some sense in myself.
46
00:03:28,541 --> 00:03:30,942
I just hadn't really ever thought
about that before.
47
00:03:31,143 --> 00:03:32,167
And I'm lost, you know?
48
00:03:32,411 --> 00:03:35,438
Anyway, and I'm wandering around
looking, do you know what I mean?
49
00:03:35,648 --> 00:03:40,052
And thinking that, you know,
I need to do something...
50
00:03:40,286 --> 00:03:43,620
...which is more to do with my own
self expression, you know?
51
00:03:44,023 --> 00:03:45,047
And, um...
52
00:03:45,624 --> 00:03:47,786
You know, Kit...
I think a lot about Kit...
53
00:03:47,993 --> 00:03:52,021
...and I miss Kit and, you know,
how we have this sort of thing going on...
54
00:03:52,231 --> 00:03:55,633
It comes and goes. But I'm
basically trying to sort of work out...
55
00:03:55,835 --> 00:03:57,428
...where I am.
56
00:03:57,636 --> 00:04:00,037
I'm reading books that,
like, seem to say things.
57
00:04:00,239 --> 00:04:02,572
Philosophy
and the great novelists and whatever.
58
00:04:02,808 --> 00:04:05,471
I'm seeing these films.
You know, I'm testing...
59
00:04:05,678 --> 00:04:08,045
...you know, my awareness,
my consciousness, right?
60
00:04:08,247 --> 00:04:09,545
I'm listening to jazz.
61
00:04:09,748 --> 00:04:13,549
And I've also now decided
to become a cineaste, right?
62
00:04:13,752 --> 00:04:15,983
I thought you did things...
Like, I became a mod.
63
00:04:16,188 --> 00:04:20,250
You just call yourself that, right? So I'd
gone to see all the films, read all the...
64
00:04:20,492 --> 00:04:23,462
You know, I was voraciously open
to take anything in.
65
00:04:23,662 --> 00:04:29,829
And so I see that the thing
to be in films, right, is a director.
66
00:04:30,703 --> 00:04:32,763
I figured that's the game.
67
00:04:33,005 --> 00:04:35,474
And there's a coffee shop called...
68
00:04:35,674 --> 00:04:38,269
...Act One, Scene 1, right?
69
00:04:38,878 --> 00:04:41,780
That was the name.
It's early in the morning...
70
00:04:41,981 --> 00:04:44,382
...and I go into
the Act One, Scene 1 for a coffee...
71
00:04:44,550 --> 00:04:47,281
...and Kit is sitting in the coffee shop.
72
00:04:47,519 --> 00:04:50,853
So anyway, we meet in this coffee shop,
and it's fantastic to see him...
73
00:04:51,056 --> 00:04:54,026
...and he's very happy to see me,
and we spend the day together.
74
00:04:54,193 --> 00:04:55,991
And at the end of the day...
75
00:04:56,195 --> 00:04:59,632
...we decided that we were gonna
sort of write a screenplay...
76
00:04:59,865 --> 00:05:02,494
...to make a film that would be our film.
77
00:05:05,905 --> 00:05:07,237
I fell in love.
78
00:05:07,439 --> 00:05:11,308
I mean, literally, with both of them
immediately. I mean, I just...
79
00:05:11,543 --> 00:05:16,447
They completely and utterly,
the pair of them, totally changed my life.
80
00:05:16,782 --> 00:05:18,444
That was good. Can I have a look?
81
00:05:18,651 --> 00:05:22,315
However highbrow you want to make
it, I still think there is more valid...
82
00:05:22,554 --> 00:05:25,422
...new creative music
being made at the pop end.
83
00:05:25,624 --> 00:05:28,924
I don't see any good classical composers
emerging at the moment.
84
00:05:29,128 --> 00:05:31,597
I certainly haven't heard
a decent new symphony...
85
00:05:31,797 --> 00:05:34,596
...or a decent new opera
in the last 18 months...
86
00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,463
...and I think opera as we know now
is absolutely defunct.
87
00:05:37,670 --> 00:05:41,471
One needs a completely fresh approach
and I think pop's gonna provide it.
88
00:05:41,674 --> 00:05:45,611
You gotta talk to Chris about this. It's a
pity that Kit isn't here to tell his side.
89
00:05:45,811 --> 00:05:48,781
But, you know, how did these two guys
find each other, you know?
90
00:05:48,981 --> 00:05:50,813
I mean, for a while there...
91
00:05:51,050 --> 00:05:55,112
...I thought they must have fallen in love
and had an affair or something.
92
00:05:55,321 --> 00:05:56,653
I couldn't work out
where they'd come together.
93
00:05:56,855 --> 00:06:00,553
I knew they'd worked on films together,
and they loved that about each other...
94
00:06:00,759 --> 00:06:04,355
...that Chris did one thing, Kit did
another. We'd come up with dumb reasons.
95
00:06:04,663 --> 00:06:06,689
Like, you know,
maybe they were lovers...
96
00:06:06,932 --> 00:06:11,700
...or something, but that just made it more
intriguing, you know. More interesting.
97
00:06:17,209 --> 00:06:19,701
This memory came up
that I was being carried.
98
00:06:19,945 --> 00:06:22,813
I think I was being carried
by my Aunt Maude, ahem...
99
00:06:23,015 --> 00:06:28,181
...and my mother, and I guess my brother.
And we went into what was called...
100
00:06:28,387 --> 00:06:31,482
...an Anderson air-raid shelter.
101
00:06:31,790 --> 00:06:36,319
You know, I played, as a kid on,
you know... In the bomb sites.
102
00:06:36,528 --> 00:06:37,621
That's what we did.
103
00:06:37,830 --> 00:06:41,028
We played in the bomb sites,
in the half bombed-out houses.
104
00:06:41,233 --> 00:06:45,967
We liked to smoke and, you know,
do those very young things.
105
00:06:46,171 --> 00:06:48,140
So life was very quick.
106
00:06:48,340 --> 00:06:53,005
You were very sort of, like, old
in a sense, quite quickly.
107
00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:56,876
We were really different individuals.
108
00:06:57,116 --> 00:07:01,212
Chris, he was always like
a big persona.
109
00:07:01,420 --> 00:07:04,913
You know, he was this rough,
tough, fighting, sort of spiv.
110
00:07:05,357 --> 00:07:10,022
I missed most of his kind of gang years,
you know, because I'd left home.
111
00:07:10,229 --> 00:07:12,494
And then I remember getting a call...
112
00:07:12,698 --> 00:07:15,862
...and having a conversation with
my mother because she was frightened.
113
00:07:16,168 --> 00:07:18,660
I think police had brought him home.
114
00:07:18,904 --> 00:07:24,434
And so I was aware that I had to bridge
a lot of water that had come between us.
115
00:07:24,676 --> 00:07:28,272
And the initial thing
was just getting him to admit...
116
00:07:28,514 --> 00:07:32,884
...or getting him to acknowledge
that he did have an interest.
117
00:07:33,085 --> 00:07:36,021
In my conversation with him,
there was this kind of lethargy...
118
00:07:36,221 --> 00:07:39,020
...like he just wasn't interested
in anything.
119
00:07:39,224 --> 00:07:40,715
I had found something.
120
00:07:40,926 --> 00:07:43,589
Unbeknownst to him and the family...
121
00:07:43,796 --> 00:07:47,392
...I had found this thing
to be an actor, and then, finally...
122
00:07:47,599 --> 00:07:49,397
...he confessed that...
123
00:07:49,601 --> 00:07:51,729
When I, you know, pressed him...
124
00:07:51,937 --> 00:07:53,963
...he said he was interested in girls.
125
00:07:54,206 --> 00:07:56,607
That's what he was interested in, girls.
126
00:07:56,809 --> 00:07:58,573
And so I said, "What kind of girls?"
127
00:07:58,777 --> 00:08:00,746
"Well, you know...
128
00:08:01,547 --> 00:08:03,982
...dancing girls." And that came to me...
129
00:08:04,216 --> 00:08:07,584
...the ballet, because I thought,
"God, if you're interested in chicks...
130
00:08:07,786 --> 00:08:10,085
...working backstage at the ballet...
131
00:08:10,289 --> 00:08:14,784
...is the place where a young East End
hobbidy wants to be, you know?"
132
00:08:15,094 --> 00:08:19,429
And I knew from my experiences
that most of those girls were just dying...
133
00:08:19,631 --> 00:08:22,829
...for somebody like Chris
to fall across their path, you know.
134
00:08:23,068 --> 00:08:25,833
And if you worked backstage
in the ballet...
135
00:08:26,071 --> 00:08:29,735
...they're there and they'll love you.
You know, you just gotta be there.
136
00:08:31,276 --> 00:08:33,336
And I stand on the side of the stage...
137
00:08:33,579 --> 00:08:35,980
...looking for all these
amazing women.
138
00:08:36,215 --> 00:08:39,947
And then the orchestra starts to tune up
and I hear this music.
139
00:08:40,486 --> 00:08:44,082
And then the lights come on
and then the show begins, and then...
140
00:08:44,289 --> 00:08:46,155
...these people are just dancing...
141
00:08:46,358 --> 00:08:50,591
...and it's the lights, you know,
and it's so, like, gigantic to me.
142
00:08:50,796 --> 00:08:56,235
The show is about another half hour to go
and this old prop guy comes up to me.
143
00:08:56,435 --> 00:08:59,166
"And so you haven't got any more cues.
You can go home now."
144
00:08:59,371 --> 00:09:02,136
I said, "No, no, no! I'm not leaving."
145
00:09:02,341 --> 00:09:07,678
And that night, I mean,
I absolutely know that whatever this was...
146
00:09:07,846 --> 00:09:09,974
...um, I wanted in.
147
00:09:10,516 --> 00:09:14,476
I'm now, like, a second A.D.
or second assistant, right?
148
00:09:14,686 --> 00:09:19,124
And Kit, he's in the same position
as I am...
149
00:09:19,324 --> 00:09:22,351
...and in the studio we bump into
each other, as you do, right...
150
00:09:22,561 --> 00:09:24,052
...when you're a runner, an A.D.
151
00:09:24,263 --> 00:09:26,755
We used to go to the cafeteria
together at lunchtime...
152
00:09:26,965 --> 00:09:29,161
...and we discovered
we had exactly the same...
153
00:09:29,368 --> 00:09:32,896
I had the same as him,
in terms of French cinema...
154
00:09:33,138 --> 00:09:35,403
...you know, certain types of films
that we liked.
155
00:09:35,641 --> 00:09:37,803
So that began the relationship.
156
00:09:38,010 --> 00:09:42,641
He said he'd met this guy,
he was very smart, and different to him...
157
00:09:42,848 --> 00:09:45,716
...but they kind of were
a very good duo.
158
00:09:45,918 --> 00:09:49,320
They complemented each other,
like two and two made six.
159
00:09:49,521 --> 00:09:55,222
And that they'd had this idea where
they could never really make that jump...
160
00:09:55,427 --> 00:09:57,919
...from being film assistants
to being film directors.
161
00:09:58,163 --> 00:09:59,722
You know, it was impossible.
162
00:09:59,932 --> 00:10:05,166
Their idea was that they would find
a rock 'n' roll group.
163
00:10:05,370 --> 00:10:07,737
They would find a really good
rock 'n' roll group...
164
00:10:07,940 --> 00:10:10,205
...and they would manage them.
165
00:10:10,409 --> 00:10:12,878
And they would make them
so successful...
166
00:10:13,078 --> 00:10:16,446
...that they would be able
to direct a film about them.
167
00:10:16,682 --> 00:10:18,708
And then that film
would be their showpiece.
168
00:10:18,917 --> 00:10:21,182
That film would be their entrée...
169
00:10:21,386 --> 00:10:24,845
...into the world of film directing.
And he did tell me about the idea...
170
00:10:25,057 --> 00:10:30,519
...and before they met The Who, or
The High Numbers as they were called.
171
00:10:30,729 --> 00:10:33,460
Kit, he'd been in the army,
he'd gone to Oxford...
172
00:10:33,699 --> 00:10:38,967
...and he'd also then gone from Oxford
to some cinema school in Paris, right?
173
00:10:39,204 --> 00:10:42,436
All of that stuff that I thought was
fantastic because none of that...
174
00:10:42,641 --> 00:10:46,100
...was even in my viewpoint. We didn't
know that you could go to college...
175
00:10:46,345 --> 00:10:50,248
...where I came from. We weren't told.
Then the fourth thing I knew about Kit...
176
00:10:50,415 --> 00:10:53,385
...was that he had gone to Brazil...
177
00:10:53,585 --> 00:10:57,249
...with an explorer to film...
178
00:10:57,456 --> 00:10:58,651
...and he was actually...
179
00:10:58,890 --> 00:11:02,594
So, he was, like,
a guy who'd held a camera, right?
180
00:11:02,728 --> 00:11:05,391
He's gone to Brazil
because it was a chance to film...
181
00:11:05,597 --> 00:11:09,159
...and because he was a reckless,
impulsive, sort of great guy, right?
182
00:11:09,434 --> 00:11:12,165
The Iriri River was the longest river...
183
00:11:12,404 --> 00:11:15,067
...in the world
that had never been descended in full.
184
00:11:15,274 --> 00:11:20,508
You could go about a thousand kilometers
in any direction and meet nobody.
185
00:11:20,746 --> 00:11:24,513
Just as though it was an island
out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
186
00:11:24,750 --> 00:11:27,618
Kit wanted to come.
I even thought it was great...
187
00:11:27,819 --> 00:11:31,153
...because he was thinking
of making a career in filmmaking.
188
00:11:31,957 --> 00:11:34,950
And he came along
as the cameraman.
189
00:11:35,594 --> 00:11:39,793
He was very tough
and, um, uncomplaining.
190
00:11:39,998 --> 00:11:43,662
Because it became quite
a tough expedition.
191
00:11:43,902 --> 00:11:48,704
Much, much harder than we realized
it was going to be.
192
00:11:52,344 --> 00:11:55,473
Kit had incredible, um, courage.
193
00:11:55,681 --> 00:11:57,172
You know, he had incredible...
194
00:11:57,416 --> 00:12:00,545
He was really always able
to sort of really take risks.
195
00:12:00,786 --> 00:12:04,416
He'd gone to Brazil with
this explorer, this guy called Richard.
196
00:12:04,623 --> 00:12:08,219
And, um, the guy he was with,
they'd gone into an unknown part...
197
00:12:08,460 --> 00:12:10,292
...he got killed by a tribe.
198
00:12:10,996 --> 00:12:12,965
I remember him coming back saying:
199
00:12:13,165 --> 00:12:17,466
"I've just had a radio message that
there's been an attack on your camp."
200
00:12:17,869 --> 00:12:22,204
And, at that time, he said,
"I think five people have been killed."
201
00:12:22,441 --> 00:12:26,435
In fact, it was only one,
and it was an ambush on the trail.
202
00:12:27,579 --> 00:12:31,846
And in a way, I'm incredibly
sort of, you know, in wonder.
203
00:12:32,050 --> 00:12:36,488
It was the possibility that you could do,
you know... It was widening my angle...
204
00:12:36,688 --> 00:12:38,714
...of awareness on possibilities.
205
00:12:41,560 --> 00:12:44,052
Mr. Lambert, Mr. Mason
was an experienced explorer...
206
00:12:44,262 --> 00:12:48,097
...and other members of the party have a
lot of experience of this kind of country.
207
00:12:48,266 --> 00:12:50,531
What went wrong on this expedition?
208
00:12:50,736 --> 00:12:53,831
Well, the verdict of the Brazilian
authorities was that it was:
209
00:12:55,273 --> 00:12:57,071
Pure fate.
210
00:12:57,275 --> 00:12:58,834
We end up living together, right?
211
00:12:59,044 --> 00:13:01,843
So we're in the same apartment,
and then...
212
00:13:02,047 --> 00:13:06,075
...we start to try and write screenplays,
right? We started coming up with ideas.
213
00:13:07,586 --> 00:13:10,385
And then we got round to sort of
what we really both liked.
214
00:13:10,589 --> 00:13:13,616
We got round to this whole
sort of Jean-Luc Godard...
215
00:13:13,859 --> 00:13:15,987
...cinema verité type of thing...
216
00:13:16,194 --> 00:13:19,096
...and we realized that that's
really where we should go.
217
00:13:19,297 --> 00:13:22,199
That's when I came up with the idea
of the rock 'n' roll thing.
218
00:13:22,401 --> 00:13:26,361
We could manage a group,
and how we did it...
219
00:13:26,571 --> 00:13:29,200
...would be the theme of the film.
How we managed them.
220
00:13:29,408 --> 00:13:31,240
We'd shoot it all
as we were doing it...
221
00:13:31,443 --> 00:13:35,380
...and that we would film
the whole process of the managing...
222
00:13:35,580 --> 00:13:39,142
...and the idea of, like, finding
the group, working with them...
223
00:13:39,384 --> 00:13:41,751
...making records,
becoming successful...
224
00:13:41,953 --> 00:13:45,151
...would be filmed,
the whole process on all levels.
225
00:13:45,390 --> 00:13:49,418
Kit and I, we looked everywhere. We
looked all over the place for these bands.
226
00:13:49,628 --> 00:13:53,258
How we defined what group we wanted
to put in our so-called movie...
227
00:13:53,465 --> 00:13:56,094
...was we didn't know
what we wanted...
228
00:13:56,268 --> 00:13:58,328
...but we absolutely knew
what we didn't want.
229
00:13:58,637 --> 00:14:00,538
I mean, we looked for months.
230
00:14:00,739 --> 00:14:04,938
We found the people who were doing
the music to be smart and neat and...
231
00:14:05,143 --> 00:14:07,305
They were very,
like, jumping up and down.
232
00:14:07,546 --> 00:14:10,607
You know,
they weren't what we wanted.
233
00:14:10,816 --> 00:14:13,650
But this we wanted
was really about us.
234
00:14:14,586 --> 00:14:18,785
But it was gonna be some
mad fucking concoction of stuff...
235
00:14:18,990 --> 00:14:21,050
...that looked like Lambert and Stamp.
236
00:14:23,695 --> 00:14:26,187
What we did with
the Railway Hotel, the Railway Club...
237
00:14:26,598 --> 00:14:30,091
...it was a sort of a institutional pub
kind of place.
238
00:14:30,302 --> 00:14:32,794
It was a bit sordid and grotty
like they all are.
239
00:14:33,004 --> 00:14:36,566
So we blacked out all the windows,
we turned all the radiators up...
240
00:14:36,775 --> 00:14:39,870
...and we took all the light bulbs out
and put in pink or red ones.
241
00:14:40,111 --> 00:14:42,706
So it was dark. It was hot.
242
00:14:42,948 --> 00:14:45,577
The band were loud.
We had too many people in.
243
00:14:45,784 --> 00:14:47,719
It was fantastic. It was a real success.
244
00:14:47,953 --> 00:14:52,118
Things were going well,
and one day I'm there on the door...
245
00:14:52,324 --> 00:14:55,692
...and The High Numbers are playing.
I think someone came and said:
246
00:14:55,861 --> 00:14:59,457
"There's some straight guy
poking around outside."
247
00:14:59,664 --> 00:15:04,625
Now, we used to have in the club
500 people or something, you know?
248
00:15:04,836 --> 00:15:08,603
We were officially only allowed 180,
but I suddenly thought:
249
00:15:08,807 --> 00:15:11,902
"Christ, it might be the local council."
It was trouble.
250
00:15:12,310 --> 00:15:14,472
This was Kit Lambert.
I mean, I didn't know.
251
00:15:14,679 --> 00:15:18,343
He's been driving around and he's seen
this line of scooters and mods, you know.
252
00:15:18,550 --> 00:15:21,145
He'd been looking for a band
to put into a film.
253
00:15:21,353 --> 00:15:23,254
Been looking for months
with his partner.
254
00:15:23,421 --> 00:15:26,391
And the first thing he said to me:
"Is it always like this?"
255
00:15:26,691 --> 00:15:29,627
I said, "No, no, it's a special night."
Or something like that.
256
00:15:29,828 --> 00:15:32,423
Anyway, he forced his way
past me, I think...
257
00:15:32,664 --> 00:15:36,533
...and looked inside
and he looked really shaken.
258
00:15:36,735 --> 00:15:39,000
And, you know, he's...
And I'm going, I thought:
259
00:15:39,204 --> 00:15:43,437
"This is it." And he said,
"I'm looking to hire a band."
260
00:15:43,842 --> 00:15:46,402
And I thought,
We went in, we watched the band a bit...
261
00:15:46,578 --> 00:15:48,137
...then we went upstairs to talk.
262
00:15:48,346 --> 00:15:51,680
Lambert says later, when he went,
he said it was like going into hell...
263
00:15:51,883 --> 00:15:55,012
...or a version of Hades or something.
He said it was pitch black...
264
00:15:55,220 --> 00:15:57,655
...very loud.
The band were doing feedback.
265
00:15:57,856 --> 00:16:00,087
Pete was just getting into
his feedback stuff.
266
00:16:00,292 --> 00:16:03,091
And he said all these mods
were doing these dances...
267
00:16:03,295 --> 00:16:05,696
...and he said
they looked mesmerized...
268
00:16:06,031 --> 00:16:07,795
...and just what he wanted.
269
00:16:08,033 --> 00:16:09,092
Up his street.
270
00:16:15,540 --> 00:16:18,669
Yeah, I do remember him.
I remember the night that he was there.
271
00:16:18,877 --> 00:16:22,279
I remember Barney coming
and saying to me, after the show...
272
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,915
...that there was somebody
that had seen the band...
273
00:16:25,116 --> 00:16:27,415
...that was interested
in making a film about us.
274
00:16:28,053 --> 00:16:31,751
They were just
an extraordinary flash of...
275
00:16:31,957 --> 00:16:35,621
I just felt a sense of serenity
about them, of calmness.
276
00:16:35,827 --> 00:16:38,092
Of Kit smoking...
277
00:16:38,296 --> 00:16:42,734
...and not really addressing
the band very much. Kit didn't...
278
00:16:43,735 --> 00:16:46,432
...immediately engage with the band.
279
00:16:46,638 --> 00:16:49,836
He seemed to be like somebody
who had a big idea and was...
280
00:16:50,642 --> 00:16:54,101
I felt like we were actors in his play.
281
00:16:54,312 --> 00:16:57,771
There were two guys here,
assistant directors in the film business.
282
00:16:57,983 --> 00:17:00,782
They were prepared to give all that up
and manage the band.
283
00:17:00,986 --> 00:17:04,252
And put some money into it.
I think they lied about the money.
284
00:17:04,623 --> 00:17:07,286
It was an interesting time.
I was at art school.
285
00:17:07,492 --> 00:17:09,620
The other guys were in day jobs.
286
00:17:09,828 --> 00:17:14,289
Our group, The High Numbers,
we hadn't really...
287
00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:16,966
We hadn't really got our heads
sorted out properly.
288
00:17:17,435 --> 00:17:19,734
We were still struggling
to find an image...
289
00:17:19,938 --> 00:17:22,601
...and find our feet and...
290
00:17:23,742 --> 00:17:26,473
We wouldn't have been
particularly impressive. Um...
291
00:17:27,846 --> 00:17:32,546
We had a few gimmicks. You know, Keith
had an extraordinary look about him.
292
00:17:32,784 --> 00:17:35,151
In fact, you can see the movie
of the event.
293
00:17:35,553 --> 00:17:39,854
They shot the first film
of the band at that gig...
294
00:17:40,625 --> 00:17:43,754
...and took us over then.
Their original intention, you know...
295
00:17:43,962 --> 00:17:46,454
...was to make a movie,
not to manage a band.
296
00:17:46,665 --> 00:17:49,567
But they ended up doing both.
297
00:17:49,801 --> 00:17:51,793
♪ Ooh poo pah do ♪
298
00:17:52,537 --> 00:17:55,006
♪ Well, baby, call me the most ♪♪
299
00:17:55,206 --> 00:17:57,505
I think they got to know the band...
300
00:17:57,709 --> 00:18:00,144
...got to see it,
and got to see the situation...
301
00:18:00,345 --> 00:18:02,644
...and saw the potential.
302
00:18:02,847 --> 00:18:08,081
They saw, probably, that the band really
didn't have any leadership at that time.
303
00:18:08,319 --> 00:18:11,153
And I walked through with Kit...
304
00:18:11,356 --> 00:18:14,520
...towards the front of the stage.
I'm sort of fascinated, you know.
305
00:18:14,726 --> 00:18:17,821
I'm picking up what their audience...
This is their audience, right?
306
00:18:18,029 --> 00:18:19,793
And the atmosphere was just rich.
307
00:18:20,231 --> 00:18:23,429
You know, you could really feel
an audience, an atmosphere here...
308
00:18:23,601 --> 00:18:24,933
...although the show is over.
309
00:18:25,336 --> 00:18:27,305
I look at these guys. They're four, like...
310
00:18:27,505 --> 00:18:31,169
You know, they're four complicated,
difficult fucking guys, right?
311
00:18:31,376 --> 00:18:33,675
I can see that, you know?
They're really awkward. Heh.
312
00:18:33,878 --> 00:18:35,710
And I'm thinking, "Yeah."
You know?
313
00:18:35,914 --> 00:18:38,216
And I just, like...
You know, I got that, right?
314
00:18:44,189 --> 00:18:46,317
Chris had got this job...
315
00:18:46,524 --> 00:18:49,619
...as a second assistant...
316
00:18:49,861 --> 00:18:52,888
...on a film called
The Heroes of Telemark.
317
00:18:53,098 --> 00:18:56,364
And he was going to location...
318
00:18:56,568 --> 00:18:59,197
...a long location shoot in Norway.
319
00:18:59,637 --> 00:19:03,904
And he told me that he had been able
to sign this group...
320
00:19:04,109 --> 00:19:07,341
...who they'd rechristened The Who...
321
00:19:07,545 --> 00:19:09,377
...and they'd been able to sign them...
322
00:19:09,581 --> 00:19:11,948
...because they'd offered them
20 quid a week...
323
00:19:12,150 --> 00:19:15,348
...and he was going to go
on location to Norway...
324
00:19:15,553 --> 00:19:19,115
...and he was just gonna live
on the canteen food.
325
00:19:19,357 --> 00:19:23,658
And he'd arranged for his salary
to be sent back to London...
326
00:19:23,962 --> 00:19:26,932
...and that 80 pounds was gonna be
20 quid a week...
327
00:19:27,132 --> 00:19:28,896
...for the four members of The Who.
328
00:19:29,100 --> 00:19:31,660
And I thought that was kind of...
329
00:19:32,670 --> 00:19:35,663
...a landmark, you know?
I thought that was, like, really smart.
330
00:19:35,907 --> 00:19:39,435
So then Kit and I went to their
parents, and the parents loved this...
331
00:19:39,644 --> 00:19:44,446
...because Kit could put on a white shirt,
and he was... He'd been to Oxford.
332
00:19:44,649 --> 00:19:46,481
But we went to the parents...
333
00:19:46,684 --> 00:19:51,315
...and we agreed in the contract
to give them a salary.
334
00:19:51,589 --> 00:19:53,319
- Which the parents loved.
- Right, so...
335
00:19:53,525 --> 00:19:54,993
A guaranteed salary.
336
00:19:55,193 --> 00:19:57,253
I mean, where's this salary
gonna come from?
337
00:19:57,462 --> 00:20:00,955
Well, we wanted to, you know...
We were gonna find it, right?
338
00:20:01,166 --> 00:20:04,034
He was excited about it.
They were kind of potential.
339
00:20:06,805 --> 00:20:08,831
And I said,
"Are they kind of great-looking?
340
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,135
Are they like the Beatles?"
And he said, "Well, not exactly."
341
00:20:14,712 --> 00:20:17,682
He thought they had a look.
342
00:20:17,916 --> 00:20:20,545
So he gets out this photograph
and he shows it to us.
343
00:20:20,785 --> 00:20:23,277
Our hearts sink, and we said:
344
00:20:23,488 --> 00:20:28,984
"Chris, they're so ugly. They're the
ugliest guys. They're not gonna make it.
345
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,186
There's no way
these guys are gonna make it."
346
00:20:31,429 --> 00:20:33,728
- That's right.
- And we picked out which one...
347
00:20:33,965 --> 00:20:35,399
We thought Keith Moon was okay.
348
00:20:35,567 --> 00:20:37,968
- We thought he was cute.
- We thought Roger was okay.
349
00:20:38,136 --> 00:20:40,367
And Chris said,
"That's the one the girls like."
350
00:20:40,572 --> 00:20:44,668
And then... But we said,
"But the other guy with the nose...
351
00:20:44,876 --> 00:20:47,311
- That's right.
- ...it's just not gonna work."
352
00:20:55,086 --> 00:20:58,352
♪ When you move in
Right up close to me ♪
353
00:20:58,556 --> 00:21:00,548
- Do you think we could have...
- Yes.
354
00:21:00,725 --> 00:21:02,717
- ...a conversation with you?
- Yes, yes.
355
00:21:02,961 --> 00:21:05,863
♪ That's when I get the shakes ♪
356
00:21:06,064 --> 00:21:08,260
♪ All over me ♪
357
00:21:12,170 --> 00:21:14,833
♪ Quivers down my backbone ♪♪
358
00:21:15,006 --> 00:21:17,908
It was about putting the ideas
up, seeing what they looked like...
359
00:21:18,109 --> 00:21:20,237
...and trying them out.
360
00:21:21,045 --> 00:21:23,207
We had no idea of what they did
in the music business...
361
00:21:23,414 --> 00:21:25,849
...or what this whole world was about.
362
00:21:26,050 --> 00:21:29,612
We didn't come to the group
as, like, professional managers.
363
00:21:30,021 --> 00:21:32,752
We came with these two guys
who had these ideas...
364
00:21:32,991 --> 00:21:35,790
...and were filmmakers
and wanted to manage.
365
00:21:36,694 --> 00:21:38,492
We never said we knew how to do it.
366
00:22:57,608 --> 00:23:00,339
So we came in
and like, "Hey, forget it, right?
367
00:23:00,578 --> 00:23:03,138
We're gonna do this and that."
They loved that.
368
00:23:03,348 --> 00:23:07,080
They loved us. They... Every idea we
threw at them, you know, they loved us.
369
00:23:07,285 --> 00:23:08,878
- Why?
- I have no idea.
370
00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:11,589
I mean, we... You know, I mean,
Kit was funny.
371
00:23:11,789 --> 00:23:15,624
I was, like, hip. We had a lot of dialogue.
You know, we'd been around the block.
372
00:23:15,827 --> 00:23:19,525
They were sort of like a year younger
than us and, you know, we were like...
373
00:23:19,731 --> 00:23:21,723
Whatever it was.
They thought we were great.
374
00:23:21,966 --> 00:23:24,697
And we were telling them these ideas
about filming and this.
375
00:23:24,902 --> 00:23:27,531
You know,
we were really selling the deal.
376
00:23:27,739 --> 00:23:30,538
And they thought it was fabulous,
and so they all went along with it.
377
00:23:30,708 --> 00:23:32,870
- Um, then I...
- Did you have any idea...
378
00:23:33,111 --> 00:23:35,478
- ...what the fuck you were talking about?
- No.
379
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,117
No, but, I mean, I knew that what
we would do would be fascinating, right?
380
00:23:39,317 --> 00:23:42,617
I told them, you know, we're gonna
film stuff, you know, we're here.
381
00:23:42,820 --> 00:23:46,916
You know, we gotta sort of... I mean, and
I started to sprout off like, you know:
382
00:23:47,158 --> 00:23:51,254
"We're gonna break the fucking iron
stranglehold of the opium of the masses."
383
00:23:51,496 --> 00:23:55,524
I was giving them sort of Trotsky rhetoric
and, you know... Whatever, right?
384
00:23:55,700 --> 00:23:57,498
- They fucking bought all this?
- Yeah.
385
00:23:57,702 --> 00:23:59,398
Well, I don't know if they bought it.
386
00:23:59,637 --> 00:24:02,630
I mean, they thought, "These guys
are fucking out there," right?
387
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:07,676
We often used to say this will be 18
months to two years, and then it's over.
388
00:24:07,879 --> 00:24:09,245
Nobody believed, you see...
389
00:24:09,414 --> 00:24:12,680
...that that period of pop music
would last very long anyway.
390
00:24:12,884 --> 00:24:18,755
So if you... What I had was this idea
that it would deliberately...
391
00:24:18,956 --> 00:24:20,515
...blow itself up.
392
00:24:20,725 --> 00:24:23,661
You know, which Kit and Chris
were really quite keen on...
393
00:24:23,861 --> 00:24:25,659
...you know, as an idea.
394
00:24:25,863 --> 00:24:27,798
They didn't know
what hit them about ideas.
395
00:24:27,965 --> 00:24:31,094
"We're gonna film everything. We're
gonna sort of create images for you."
396
00:24:31,269 --> 00:24:32,269
You know:
397
00:24:34,572 --> 00:24:36,973
- Like what kind of images?
- Who the fuck knows?
398
00:24:37,208 --> 00:24:39,541
I mean, look, I'm like...
I'm gasping for breath.
399
00:24:39,744 --> 00:24:44,079
I mean, I'm doing the usual
sort of, like, you know, mirrors work.
400
00:24:44,282 --> 00:24:45,614
Balls in the air.
401
00:24:45,817 --> 00:24:49,083
But I had, underneath all this,
you see, I had...
402
00:24:49,420 --> 00:24:51,616
...you know, the purpose, the meaning.
403
00:24:51,823 --> 00:24:54,054
Kit and I, relationship, all those things.
404
00:24:54,258 --> 00:24:57,387
There was an undercurrent
in our personalities that was real.
405
00:24:57,595 --> 00:24:59,996
And I think a lot of it
was the chemistry of the two.
406
00:25:00,231 --> 00:25:03,793
It was the most unlikely partnership,
Lambert and Stamp, you could imagine.
407
00:25:04,001 --> 00:25:07,062
I mean, first of all,
Kit Lambert was very upper class...
408
00:25:07,271 --> 00:25:09,272
...and had this upper-class accent.
409
00:25:09,273 --> 00:25:13,734
It must have been very strange growing up
with that famous father, Constant Lambert.
410
00:25:14,078 --> 00:25:18,846
And all that involvement with all
those sort of aristocratic celebs...
411
00:25:19,083 --> 00:25:21,985
...and highbrow intellectual
musical people.
412
00:25:22,220 --> 00:25:26,282
So, what we are setting out to do is to
assemble a portrait of Constant Lambert...
413
00:25:26,491 --> 00:25:28,926
...viewed through those
who knew him best.
414
00:25:29,127 --> 00:25:31,426
Our search begins in a club
in Wardour Street...
415
00:25:31,629 --> 00:25:34,428
...where a Lambert is still
involved in the making of music.
416
00:25:34,632 --> 00:25:38,330
How does Christopher Lambert, manager
of a pop group, remember his father?
417
00:25:38,536 --> 00:25:42,667
Well, sort of kind, but perhaps
a rather formidable figure in many ways.
418
00:25:42,874 --> 00:25:44,433
Strongly eccentric. I'd say that.
419
00:25:44,642 --> 00:25:49,342
I remember noticing that, children are
very conscious of these things, I suppose.
420
00:25:49,547 --> 00:25:52,039
He would be completely occupied
by his own thoughts...
421
00:25:52,283 --> 00:25:55,879
...and therefore not terribly aware of
sometimes what was going on around him.
422
00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:59,716
I suppose he's the only person alive
to have been driving with somebody...
423
00:25:59,891 --> 00:26:02,326
...who then found themselves
unable to change gear...
424
00:26:02,493 --> 00:26:04,519
...because they couldn't find
the gear lever.
425
00:26:04,695 --> 00:26:07,529
My father had managed
to get it up the leg of his trousers...
426
00:26:07,698 --> 00:26:11,260
...while doing the Times crossword puzzle
on his knee. He was that kind of person.
427
00:26:11,469 --> 00:26:13,563
He didn't talk much about his father.
428
00:26:13,804 --> 00:26:18,765
He... I came into his room at Oxford
in his first year.
429
00:26:19,377 --> 00:26:22,836
And I find him in tears and I said,
"Kit, what's the matter?"
430
00:26:23,047 --> 00:26:27,417
And he said, "I'm just very depressed.
I've been thinking about my father."
431
00:26:27,652 --> 00:26:30,212
And I didn't take it any further.
432
00:26:30,421 --> 00:26:32,549
I let him talk a bit more.
433
00:26:32,790 --> 00:26:34,884
He didn't say anything
particularly revealing.
434
00:26:35,193 --> 00:26:38,652
I remembered that his father
died about three years before.
435
00:26:38,863 --> 00:26:41,298
And also he was gay
and he must have gone through...
436
00:26:41,499 --> 00:26:44,799
...incredible gay period
at public school.
437
00:26:45,002 --> 00:26:48,404
In those days, you see,
I think it was illegal to be gay...
438
00:26:48,606 --> 00:26:51,804
...and they were very open
to blackmail and stuff like this.
439
00:26:52,009 --> 00:26:55,502
And he'd gone to Lancing Public School
which is a private school...
440
00:26:55,713 --> 00:26:57,545
...and he'd been an officer in the army.
441
00:26:57,748 --> 00:27:02,516
He came from this
Oxford-educated theatrical environment...
442
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,918
...that he'd been to all these schools
that we could only dream about.
443
00:27:06,123 --> 00:27:10,060
Kit wouldn't say he was the first
real posh guy I'd ever spoke to...
444
00:27:10,261 --> 00:27:13,026
...but Kit was the only posh guy
I'd ever spoken to...
445
00:27:13,231 --> 00:27:15,530
...that was actually interested in me...
446
00:27:15,733 --> 00:27:18,635
...and wasn't
talking down to me and...
447
00:27:20,404 --> 00:27:23,533
His enthusiasm was inst...
I mean, it was...
448
00:27:23,741 --> 00:27:27,439
You could cut it with a knife.
I mean, it was... It was...
449
00:27:27,645 --> 00:27:30,080
It was out here on him
when he came to you.
450
00:27:30,281 --> 00:27:33,649
It was so warm
and he was just, "Fucking great!"
451
00:27:39,123 --> 00:27:41,092
Well, not very short.
452
00:27:41,292 --> 00:27:43,557
- Up to here?
- Pretty short. No, no, no!
453
00:27:43,761 --> 00:27:46,856
- Why not?
- Further down there, about that far.
454
00:27:47,298 --> 00:27:50,268
- Quarter inch above my eyes like that.
- Quarter.
455
00:27:50,468 --> 00:27:52,630
Not straight, of course. No?
456
00:27:52,870 --> 00:27:53,963
Why's that?
457
00:27:54,171 --> 00:27:55,571
It's all the worry I do.
458
00:27:55,773 --> 00:27:59,005
It took quite a bit of time
to get to know Chris...
459
00:27:59,243 --> 00:28:01,974
...because he was always off
earning the money...
460
00:28:02,179 --> 00:28:03,477
...to pay our wages.
461
00:28:04,248 --> 00:28:07,446
Earning the money for the guitars
that we were smashing basically.
462
00:28:07,652 --> 00:28:09,814
This was the Ace Face.
463
00:28:10,021 --> 00:28:12,490
We were never gonna...
Or I was never gonna be that.
464
00:28:14,425 --> 00:28:17,122
I loved the fact
that he did not give a fuck.
465
00:28:17,328 --> 00:28:20,025
He... You know,
he would not stand on grace.
466
00:28:20,264 --> 00:28:22,790
You know, he wasn't frightened
of authority.
467
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,630
He did not give a monkey's toss
for breaking the rules...
468
00:28:26,837 --> 00:28:28,430
...if the rules were stupid.
469
00:28:28,639 --> 00:28:31,040
Chris Stamp was working-class
in the East End.
470
00:28:31,275 --> 00:28:34,803
His father was a tugboat captain
on the Thames or something like that.
471
00:28:35,012 --> 00:28:38,676
You know, something...
I mean, talk about chalk and cheese.
472
00:28:38,916 --> 00:28:42,819
And it's almost like... You can imagine if
you'd made this up and gone as a...
473
00:28:43,020 --> 00:28:47,458
You know, a sitcom comedy idea, say look,
you've got this upper-class guy...
474
00:28:47,658 --> 00:28:51,857
...whose father is a classical composer.
You got this tugboat captain's son.
475
00:28:52,063 --> 00:28:55,056
You know, working-class...
They get toge... And you go, "No way."
476
00:28:55,299 --> 00:28:59,134
You know what I mean? It wouldn't work.
It... You know, it's too far-fetched.
477
00:29:17,154 --> 00:29:21,216
When Kit and I first agreed
to sort of make the film together...
478
00:29:21,459 --> 00:29:23,360
...we were actually
sharing an apartment.
479
00:29:27,465 --> 00:29:29,058
On the... On the table.
480
00:29:29,266 --> 00:29:31,462
Will anyone listen to me?
481
00:29:31,669 --> 00:29:33,103
Will anyone listen to me?
482
00:29:33,337 --> 00:29:37,172
One of the things that Kit and I
did talk about was class.
483
00:29:37,375 --> 00:29:41,107
The rock thing was moving
in a defiant way...
484
00:29:41,545 --> 00:29:43,070
...in the class system.
485
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:44,543
Very loud, Keith, now!
486
00:29:44,749 --> 00:29:49,778
We both considered ourselves,
in a sense, outside of class, but of class.
487
00:29:50,020 --> 00:29:52,387
We were incomplete...
488
00:29:52,590 --> 00:29:54,559
...and we both knew that it wasn't like...
489
00:29:54,759 --> 00:29:57,752
...I would sort of have
an inner satisfaction by becoming...
490
00:29:58,062 --> 00:30:02,022
...rich and upper-class, and he knew
that he wouldn't have inner satisfaction...
491
00:30:02,233 --> 00:30:03,929
...by becoming hip and working-class.
492
00:30:04,101 --> 00:30:07,594
But we thought that
there was somewhere within this...
493
00:30:07,805 --> 00:30:10,104
...that would make life
a little bit more...
494
00:30:10,307 --> 00:30:13,573
...you know, like, real-feeling.
495
00:30:13,778 --> 00:30:16,907
You know, like, really feelings,
like, more authentic or something.
496
00:30:17,114 --> 00:30:21,609
And in a lot of ways,
I mean, Kit was the first...
497
00:30:22,953 --> 00:30:26,549
...you know, really meaningful relationship
that I'd ever entered into.
498
00:30:26,757 --> 00:30:29,591
Kit was a man,
but he was a gay man...
499
00:30:29,794 --> 00:30:33,925
...so he had the sort of sensitivity
that I wanted to sort of communicate with.
500
00:30:34,265 --> 00:30:37,167
And I think
that there was a certain safety...
501
00:30:37,535 --> 00:30:40,130
- ...in this relationship with Kit.
- You've got to be Chris Stamp.
502
00:30:40,337 --> 00:30:43,034
- You've got to be Chris Stamp.
- The living image.
503
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:47,302
I wasn't able to communicate
emotionally with a woman, right?
504
00:30:47,545 --> 00:30:48,979
I was naive in that area.
505
00:30:49,180 --> 00:30:52,480
I didn't know how to get into
an emotional relationship with a woman.
506
00:30:53,617 --> 00:30:56,109
So Kit gave me that safety
of being able to go there...
507
00:30:56,287 --> 00:30:58,756
...because it was out in the open,
it was understood.
508
00:30:58,923 --> 00:31:01,916
And as I say for me,
it allowed me, in a sense, to be...
509
00:31:02,126 --> 00:31:06,427
...more risk-taking
emotionally than I had been.
510
00:31:06,630 --> 00:31:09,156
We were both marginalized
sort of, you know...
511
00:31:09,366 --> 00:31:12,165
...me in my class
and him in his gayness.
512
00:31:12,369 --> 00:31:14,463
And he obviously had
some sort of love for me.
513
00:31:14,672 --> 00:31:16,800
So I sort of trusted that.
514
00:31:17,007 --> 00:31:18,873
I'd never risked relationship before...
515
00:31:19,310 --> 00:31:24,613
...and the acceptance on my part,
which was quite a profound acceptance.
516
00:31:24,815 --> 00:31:29,276
You know, my young, stud,
hip image...
517
00:31:29,487 --> 00:31:31,683
...was rallying against
this acceptance of Kit.
518
00:31:31,889 --> 00:31:37,328
What that worked into was the ESP
that we had as a creative force.
519
00:31:37,528 --> 00:31:39,463
So it was a very powerful bond.
520
00:31:39,663 --> 00:31:42,132
Not really quite defined...
521
00:31:42,333 --> 00:31:46,964
...because it was really defined outwardly
in a creative sense with The Who.
522
00:31:47,171 --> 00:31:51,375
Believe me, my mind wasn't that fucking
sophisticated then. But I knew something.
523
00:34:03,173 --> 00:34:07,008
There was this vast impact of teenagers
unifying into this big mass...
524
00:34:07,244 --> 00:34:08,439
...which people call mods.
525
00:34:08,646 --> 00:34:11,013
In marketing,
you're always trying to find...
526
00:34:11,248 --> 00:34:14,309
...some way to get around the fact
that the audience are a problem.
527
00:34:14,518 --> 00:34:15,781
The consumer is a problem.
528
00:34:15,986 --> 00:34:18,956
Well, the way that you stop
the consumer being a problem...
529
00:34:19,156 --> 00:34:21,523
...is you don't give them
what they want.
530
00:34:21,759 --> 00:34:25,025
You allow them to be.
531
00:34:25,362 --> 00:34:27,388
You affirm who they are.
532
00:34:27,631 --> 00:34:29,793
You don't try to change them.
533
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,834
Kit and Chris, they could see...
534
00:34:33,037 --> 00:34:37,031
If I could just give you a picture, there
you are, you're on the stage with a guitar.
535
00:34:37,274 --> 00:34:40,870
And the week before,
from the stage, you would see...
536
00:34:41,078 --> 00:34:44,515
I'll often tell this story. You would see,
you know, the sharp guy.
537
00:34:44,715 --> 00:34:46,149
Bill, the sharp guy.
538
00:34:46,350 --> 00:34:48,512
I love that. Love that. That shirt.
539
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:50,347
Love those. That jacket.
540
00:34:50,554 --> 00:34:53,854
You go out, you buy yourself a jacket
and shirt like Bill.
541
00:34:54,058 --> 00:34:55,583
Next week, you're on the stage.
542
00:34:55,826 --> 00:34:58,386
Bill, meanwhile, hasn't realized
how cool he looks...
543
00:34:58,595 --> 00:35:01,895
...and is coming in his Dungarees
and his, you know, sweatshirt.
544
00:35:02,099 --> 00:35:05,399
You're on the stage
with Bill's outfit from last week.
545
00:35:05,602 --> 00:35:08,037
Bill then looks at you
and thinks, "Hey."
546
00:35:08,238 --> 00:35:12,334
So he comes back with the shirt and
the jacket but everybody thinks it's you...
547
00:35:12,543 --> 00:35:14,910
...that's influenced Bill,
not the other way around.
548
00:35:15,112 --> 00:35:17,843
So you become
a mirror to the audience.
549
00:35:18,048 --> 00:35:20,540
Kit and Chris watched this happen...
550
00:35:20,884 --> 00:35:23,911
...and started to develop it as a way...
551
00:35:24,121 --> 00:35:27,523
...of harnessing the energy
of the audience...
552
00:35:27,725 --> 00:35:32,186
...which was to empower them, make
them realize how important they were.
553
00:35:32,396 --> 00:35:35,594
I was really uncomfortable with it.
Really uncomfortable.
554
00:35:35,833 --> 00:35:40,271
You know, when we did
our Marquee residency...
555
00:35:40,471 --> 00:35:43,464
...Mike Shaw ran all around London
giving people tickets...
556
00:35:43,707 --> 00:35:45,972
...and he was choosing
sharp-looking people.
557
00:35:46,210 --> 00:35:48,042
So we'd go to play the Marquee...
558
00:35:48,278 --> 00:35:53,876
...and the fucking whole audience is full
of all these unbelievably sharp-dressers.
559
00:35:54,084 --> 00:35:58,078
We had this idea which became
known as the Hundred Faces Club.
560
00:35:58,288 --> 00:36:00,723
We would pick one of these kids...
561
00:36:00,924 --> 00:36:04,588
...and make them official members.
We would tell them they'd get in free...
562
00:36:04,795 --> 00:36:07,731
...and they knew that they were in
this sort of unique thing.
563
00:36:07,931 --> 00:36:13,495
They were able to recognize that synergy
that was going on between the audience.
564
00:36:13,737 --> 00:36:17,572
And the only reason that I was into that,
spotting that, was because, again...
565
00:36:17,775 --> 00:36:24,272
...because of art-school training.
Being told by my teachers, find a patron.
566
00:36:24,481 --> 00:36:28,282
Go out there, find a patron.
Find somebody who will pay you to do art.
567
00:36:28,485 --> 00:36:30,647
And I very, very quickly
realized, you know...
568
00:36:30,888 --> 00:36:34,154
...the point where I was gonna go,
"Enough of this stupid band...
569
00:36:34,391 --> 00:36:36,292
...and of this stupid industry."
570
00:36:36,493 --> 00:36:38,291
Just as I'm looking at my watch...
571
00:36:38,495 --> 00:36:41,988
...in the end, I suddenly think,
"This is my patron. The audience."
572
00:36:42,199 --> 00:36:46,000
Well, Kit and Chris took it further.
573
00:36:46,203 --> 00:36:48,263
They're not just the patrons.
574
00:36:48,472 --> 00:36:51,135
They're the essence.
575
00:36:51,341 --> 00:36:55,403
And they are the people.
You don't market to them.
576
00:36:55,612 --> 00:36:57,843
You market them.
577
00:36:58,348 --> 00:37:01,318
And we never quite knew
what made them a Face.
578
00:37:01,518 --> 00:37:03,043
They had to dance well.
579
00:37:03,287 --> 00:37:07,281
They had to dress weird or well,
in some way showed...
580
00:37:07,491 --> 00:37:09,960
...their rebelliousness,
their individuality.
581
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:14,325
So we weren't only trying to identify
The Who as such...
582
00:37:14,531 --> 00:37:17,296
...but their specific audience
through our judgment.
583
00:37:17,501 --> 00:37:21,029
We were the guys saying, "This is what
we think The Who audience is."
584
00:37:21,238 --> 00:37:22,831
And we made them
a Hundred Faces member.
585
00:37:23,073 --> 00:37:27,538
- And one of those was Irish Jack.
- I remember like it was yesterday.
586
00:37:27,711 --> 00:37:30,704
He was older than me
and didn't look like a real mod.
587
00:37:30,881 --> 00:37:34,477
As I stood there, I kept looking
at this guy, Kit Lambert.
588
00:37:34,685 --> 00:37:38,383
I couldn't believe Lambert was going to be
the new manager of The High Numbers.
589
00:37:38,589 --> 00:37:41,491
He looked timid
and had a small physique...
590
00:37:41,692 --> 00:37:44,958
...like it had never properly grown
to his full proportions.
591
00:37:45,162 --> 00:37:47,757
He had a scarf
folded over his shoulder...
592
00:37:47,998 --> 00:37:50,832
...and wore a blazer-type
double-breasted jacket.
593
00:37:51,034 --> 00:37:54,493
I shook his hand,
and when he said, "Kit Lambert"...
594
00:37:54,705 --> 00:37:57,698
...he sounded like someone
from the BBC.
595
00:37:57,908 --> 00:38:00,173
He reminded me of an Oxford don...
596
00:38:00,377 --> 00:38:05,475
...and the accent, ridiculous as it was,
suited him down to the ground.
597
00:38:05,682 --> 00:38:08,242
I found myself liking him instantly...
598
00:38:08,485 --> 00:38:12,513
...and I remember being very impressed
when he told me his business partner...
599
00:38:12,789 --> 00:38:15,418
...Chris Stamp,
was currently in Ireland...
600
00:38:15,626 --> 00:38:19,620
...working as an assistant director
on the film Young Cassidy.
601
00:38:19,863 --> 00:38:23,061
Standing next to Kit Lambert,
I felt a rush of excitement...
602
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,131
...as I listened to
his rich Oxford tones...
603
00:38:26,370 --> 00:38:31,707
...while he preached a gospel about The
High Numbers needing a new direction.
604
00:38:31,909 --> 00:38:36,904
I felt Lambert studying me as he dragged
the tar from a small French cigarette.
605
00:38:37,114 --> 00:38:41,882
In the background, 500 mods
stomped in their red nylon socks...
606
00:38:42,085 --> 00:38:44,714
...desert boots
and pink stay-pressed jeans...
607
00:38:44,922 --> 00:38:48,256
...to the Nashville Teens'
"Tobacco Road."
608
00:38:48,458 --> 00:38:50,757
"Which do you think is best?"
609
00:38:50,961 --> 00:38:53,055
Kit Lambert shouted to me
over the din.
610
00:38:53,263 --> 00:38:55,164
"The High Numbers or The Who?"
611
00:38:55,399 --> 00:38:59,302
It was that good, and I hadn't
even met Chris Stamp yet.
612
00:38:59,469 --> 00:39:02,598
Kit thought that The High Numbers
sounded like bingo.
613
00:39:02,806 --> 00:39:06,538
He thought people would think it was
bingo when he was giving out leaflets.
614
00:39:06,743 --> 00:39:10,339
He didn't realize that, for mods,
it meant the numbers were kind of kids...
615
00:39:10,580 --> 00:39:13,311
...and a high number was some
kind of top mod, I suppose.
616
00:39:13,550 --> 00:39:17,544
First, we were gonna change their name.
They'd used the name "The Who" before.
617
00:39:17,754 --> 00:39:19,916
I was back at the flat, and they...
618
00:39:20,123 --> 00:39:22,319
They were in the van,
trying to think of a name.
619
00:39:22,559 --> 00:39:25,154
And they didn't come into the flat
because at the time...
620
00:39:25,362 --> 00:39:28,457
...Pete and I were dope heads.
We were smoking dope at art school.
621
00:39:28,632 --> 00:39:31,192
The others looked down upon it.
Didn't approve.
622
00:39:31,368 --> 00:39:34,065
They were very straight then.
Roger was a factory worker.
623
00:39:34,271 --> 00:39:35,671
John worked in the tax office.
624
00:39:35,872 --> 00:39:38,307
And they thought we were lazy,
no-good, art students.
625
00:39:38,508 --> 00:39:41,103
We were, actually,
but we resented them knowing it.
626
00:39:41,311 --> 00:39:44,509
Anyway, Pete said, "Let's go in
and see if Barney's got any ideas."
627
00:39:44,715 --> 00:39:48,709
So they did come into the flat. It was only
the second time they'd ever been in there.
628
00:39:48,885 --> 00:39:51,821
We made coffee and sit around.
Just coming up with these names.
629
00:39:51,989 --> 00:39:55,357
And I sort of thought, "Imagine what
you'd do if it was The Who"?
630
00:39:55,592 --> 00:39:59,290
You know you'd say, "The Who!" "Who?"
"The Who." You know, corny but it was...
631
00:39:59,496 --> 00:40:01,328
He'd milk it for all it was worth.
632
00:40:01,531 --> 00:40:04,330
There were various other names.
"Nothing" was a great name.
633
00:40:04,534 --> 00:40:05,661
Fantastic sort of name.
634
00:40:05,869 --> 00:40:08,304
At one time, I wanted to call it
"British European Airways"...
635
00:40:08,472 --> 00:40:11,306
...because I'd seen it... But I was
so stoned by then, they ignored me.
636
00:40:11,508 --> 00:40:15,343
And the other name in contention was
"The Hair," which was also a good name.
637
00:40:15,545 --> 00:40:17,207
Then Pete came up
with the idea of saying:
638
00:40:17,414 --> 00:40:19,246
"Let's call it 'The Hair and The Who.'"
639
00:40:19,483 --> 00:40:21,349
"That sounds like a pub."
640
00:40:21,551 --> 00:40:23,850
It was a terrible name. Absolutely awful.
641
00:40:24,054 --> 00:40:27,183
And we left it like that, and then
what happened the next day...
642
00:40:27,391 --> 00:40:30,190
...when Roger came around
to pick us up, he just said:
643
00:40:30,394 --> 00:40:34,195
"It's 'The Who, ' isn't it?" So that
was it. Anyway, "The Who" worked.
644
00:40:34,398 --> 00:40:37,425
First of all, it looked good on posters.
It was massive.
645
00:40:37,667 --> 00:40:40,660
We wanted to use that name
because we wanted it to be a name...
646
00:40:40,871 --> 00:40:42,362
...anything could be written on.
647
00:40:42,873 --> 00:40:44,671
Then he thought it wasn't long enough.
648
00:40:44,875 --> 00:40:47,572
I thought he got rid of The High Numbers
because it was long.
649
00:40:47,778 --> 00:40:51,545
He said, "It's not long enough.
We gotta have a longer name."
650
00:40:51,748 --> 00:40:54,377
Then he came up with a masterstroke
where he called it:
651
00:40:54,584 --> 00:40:57,452
"The Who, Maximum R&B."
652
00:40:57,687 --> 00:41:01,783
They had this on these black-and-white
posters that were made for the Marquee...
653
00:41:02,025 --> 00:41:05,757
...with Pete swinging his arm, and that's
when they came up with this logo...
654
00:41:05,962 --> 00:41:08,454
...with The Who with
an arrow symbol for a male...
655
00:41:08,698 --> 00:41:12,396
...and with the arrow coming out the O,
which people think I came up with.
656
00:41:12,602 --> 00:41:15,868
People say, "You designed that."
I say, "I wish I had. I didn't."
657
00:41:16,073 --> 00:41:18,406
I thought it was great,
to turn it back to The Who.
658
00:41:18,608 --> 00:41:20,076
Which was fantastic,
because I thought of it.
659
00:41:20,277 --> 00:41:23,213
We're trying to define,
you know, what their image is.
660
00:41:23,413 --> 00:41:26,679
And also, we were very constricted.
We had no money.
661
00:41:26,883 --> 00:41:28,078
We had no money at all.
662
00:41:28,285 --> 00:41:32,484
So we were trying to be as clever
with bank managers giving us loans...
663
00:41:32,722 --> 00:41:36,784
...and running up sort of enormous debt
with tailors and winemakers.
664
00:41:36,993 --> 00:41:39,895
Whatever it was, right?
We were trying to do all these things...
665
00:41:40,097 --> 00:41:41,963
How did you plan
to back any of this up?
666
00:41:42,299 --> 00:41:44,632
How did you plan to back this up?
Pay for it?
667
00:41:44,801 --> 00:41:48,397
Well, we thought... We just had absolute
belief in ourselves, right? Heh.
668
00:41:50,607 --> 00:41:53,600
- Where's Pete, Kit?
- I have absolutely no idea.
669
00:41:53,810 --> 00:41:56,006
- We're gonna find him.
- He rang off.
670
00:41:56,246 --> 00:41:58,477
There were not probably
two guys on the planet...
671
00:41:58,715 --> 00:42:02,152
...that knew less about rock
than these two, but you felt...
672
00:42:02,352 --> 00:42:04,514
...the... And they had no connections.
673
00:42:04,754 --> 00:42:07,588
Little doctor
in Wimpole Street called Artemis.
674
00:42:08,158 --> 00:42:10,354
Has it to do with venereal disease,
do you know?
675
00:42:10,594 --> 00:42:12,085
No, no, no.
676
00:42:12,295 --> 00:42:13,854
This fella called...
677
00:42:14,097 --> 00:42:16,225
This fella Chris Stamp
introduced me to him.
678
00:42:16,433 --> 00:42:20,529
First of all, we wanted to find out
if they did any songwriting.
679
00:42:20,770 --> 00:42:24,172
And Pete said,
"Well, I've written one song."
680
00:42:24,608 --> 00:42:26,236
And we said that will do.
681
00:42:28,945 --> 00:42:30,675
If you can write one, right?
682
00:42:30,881 --> 00:42:36,184
Kit soon saw in that band that, really, the
two stars in it were Pete and Keith Moon.
683
00:42:36,386 --> 00:42:38,878
They were the two,
and he nurtured those two...
684
00:42:39,122 --> 00:42:41,284
...quite clumsily,
at the expense of the others.
685
00:42:41,491 --> 00:42:45,258
And Roger, for one, I think resented it,
quite rightly because he got a bad deal.
686
00:42:45,462 --> 00:42:47,488
It was Roger's band.
He was the leader.
687
00:42:47,697 --> 00:42:51,134
So, what happened when
the music thing started with Pete...
688
00:42:51,334 --> 00:42:53,667
...something came out of Kit
that was always there.
689
00:42:53,870 --> 00:42:54,870
Right.
690
00:42:55,071 --> 00:42:56,300
But he hadn't owned that.
691
00:42:56,506 --> 00:42:59,340
- That was very good.
- Suddenly, he could talk to Pete...
692
00:42:59,543 --> 00:43:01,876
...about song construction...
693
00:43:02,078 --> 00:43:04,809
- It's the quiet bit...
- ...and just those ideas.
694
00:43:05,015 --> 00:43:07,780
So he brought to this relationship
with Pete...
695
00:43:07,984 --> 00:43:10,818
...the newness of his acceptance
of his musical heritage...
696
00:43:11,021 --> 00:43:13,923
...and the beginning
of Pete's understanding...
697
00:43:14,157 --> 00:43:18,151
...that he was able to be
a musician and a composer.
698
00:43:18,361 --> 00:43:23,993
Pete just suddenly became like a really
fabulous fucking writer, you know?
699
00:43:24,201 --> 00:43:25,225
They were our managers.
700
00:43:25,435 --> 00:43:27,404
Then things really started to change.
701
00:43:27,938 --> 00:43:31,841
Their ideas were fantastic,
and that's all I cared about was this band.
702
00:43:32,042 --> 00:43:36,537
All I ever wanted to do was
make this band successful.
703
00:43:39,015 --> 00:43:41,177
And they, literally,
had a map of England.
704
00:43:41,384 --> 00:43:45,082
And they would stick... "Gonna play there,
gonna play there, gonna play there.
705
00:43:45,322 --> 00:43:48,884
And we're gonna get these posters,
and gonna do that, gonna do that."
706
00:43:49,092 --> 00:43:50,458
Just like planning a battle.
707
00:43:56,933 --> 00:44:01,268
It was just... It was like being
caught in a whirlwind of ideas of...
708
00:44:01,438 --> 00:44:03,373
...how to get noticed.
709
00:44:04,474 --> 00:44:08,206
♪ Took me three years of sweating blood
To clean off all that Tennessee mud ♪♪
710
00:44:08,411 --> 00:44:10,937
For that period, The Who was the...
711
00:44:11,147 --> 00:44:13,707
...Kit Lambert, stroke,
Pete Townshend Who.
712
00:44:13,917 --> 00:44:17,046
I know Roger probably wouldn't like that,
but there's definitely...
713
00:44:17,220 --> 00:44:19,382
The Who went in this direction
of writing this...
714
00:44:19,589 --> 00:44:21,114
Having Pete Townshend's songs.
715
00:44:21,358 --> 00:44:23,850
And very much inspired
by Kit Lambert and Chris Stamp.
716
00:44:24,060 --> 00:44:28,088
Kit started nurturing him and taking him
and Keith to posh restaurants...
717
00:44:28,298 --> 00:44:31,735
...and introducing them to French wine
and so on, and all the rest of it.
718
00:44:31,935 --> 00:44:34,928
And this is where Keith
developed this "dear boy" thing.
719
00:44:35,138 --> 00:44:36,606
"Dear boy." He got it from Kit.
720
00:44:36,806 --> 00:44:40,641
I have to be honest about this. I do feel
that I was treated differently by them...
721
00:44:40,877 --> 00:44:42,869
...to the other guys in the band.
722
00:44:44,281 --> 00:44:46,614
I felt valued, you know?
723
00:44:46,816 --> 00:44:50,014
I was the one that was taken
and moved from their apartment...
724
00:44:50,253 --> 00:44:54,281
...to a flat in Belgravia, you know? Um...
725
00:44:55,458 --> 00:44:57,290
Keith Moon was left to, you know...
726
00:44:57,494 --> 00:44:59,986
...struggle out in Wembley,
where he came from.
727
00:45:00,196 --> 00:45:02,097
Kit came once
to have a photograph.
728
00:45:02,299 --> 00:45:05,326
I was having my photograph taken
for a teen magazine...
729
00:45:05,535 --> 00:45:09,165
...at the apartment I shared with Barney,
and he went around, looked around...
730
00:45:09,406 --> 00:45:11,272
...and immediately said,
"You've gotta get out of here."
731
00:45:11,474 --> 00:45:14,603
He knew Pete was the one that
would write the songs, he needed to...
732
00:45:14,811 --> 00:45:17,508
...kind of become his muse or whatever
and encourage him.
733
00:45:17,714 --> 00:45:19,979
Pete and I were living together,
and Pete said:
734
00:45:20,183 --> 00:45:22,482
"Kit wants me to go
and move into his place."
735
00:45:22,686 --> 00:45:24,518
I said, "All right." And he moved away.
736
00:45:24,721 --> 00:45:28,920
Why did they move you in with them?
737
00:45:29,125 --> 00:45:30,149
What was the...?
738
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,795
I think the, um...
739
00:45:34,230 --> 00:45:38,463
They felt... I mean, you know...
You really have to ask Chris.
740
00:45:38,668 --> 00:45:40,933
But I... The message
that I got that I felt...
741
00:45:41,137 --> 00:45:45,973
...was it was nurturance, and in a sense,
trying to draw me away...
742
00:45:46,176 --> 00:45:47,576
...from the art-school crowd.
743
00:45:47,811 --> 00:45:50,144
He'd come to our flat,
it was just blues records...
744
00:45:50,347 --> 00:45:52,316
...dark, red light bulbs, smoking dope...
745
00:45:52,515 --> 00:45:56,213
...people hanging about, you know?
He didn't like it. Well, I don't know...
746
00:45:56,453 --> 00:45:59,753
And Pete said, "What he wants is,
he wants to take me away...
747
00:45:59,989 --> 00:46:03,255
...from the squalor that is ours
to the squalor that is his.
748
00:46:03,493 --> 00:46:05,826
His upper-class,
posh Belgravia squalor."
749
00:46:06,029 --> 00:46:09,397
We moved from one apartment
to another apartment, Kit and I.
750
00:46:09,599 --> 00:46:12,831
So we wanted an apartment that would
have a lot of good credit rating.
751
00:46:13,036 --> 00:46:14,265
We had absolutely no money.
752
00:46:14,504 --> 00:46:18,032
We wanted to move to an area of London
where you could get things delivered.
753
00:46:18,241 --> 00:46:20,836
They'd deliver stuff with credit
because of where you lived.
754
00:46:21,044 --> 00:46:25,038
Kit would be teaching us
how to get by with no money.
755
00:46:25,248 --> 00:46:28,616
Which, you know, the aristocracy,
they're educated in it.
756
00:46:28,852 --> 00:46:32,254
I mean, they're, you know,
absolutely expert at it.
757
00:46:32,489 --> 00:46:35,049
You know,
I've had an account at...
758
00:46:35,258 --> 00:46:38,626
...Stone's Wine Shop in Belgravia...
759
00:46:38,862 --> 00:46:42,560
...since I was 20.
760
00:46:42,766 --> 00:46:44,098
They've never sent me a bill.
761
00:46:44,300 --> 00:46:46,565
Whenever I go there
and buy wine, if I need any...
762
00:46:46,770 --> 00:46:49,604
I don't drink wine anymore...
But if I need wine for a party.
763
00:46:49,806 --> 00:46:53,573
They say, "Should we put it on account?"
I say, "Do you want me to pay this?"
764
00:46:53,777 --> 00:46:55,746
"Don't worry, sir."
765
00:46:56,446 --> 00:46:58,745
It still goes on.
So I think there was that.
766
00:46:58,948 --> 00:47:00,940
That sense of arriving in this place.
767
00:47:01,151 --> 00:47:03,382
And Kit was very, very
transparent about it.
768
00:47:03,586 --> 00:47:06,579
He said, "You know, we need
to have an address in Eaton Place...
769
00:47:06,790 --> 00:47:09,282
...because then we won't ever
have to pay our bills."
770
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:12,558
I was living in the back of the van...
771
00:47:12,762 --> 00:47:15,664
...but now I got a girlfriend.
She didn't quite like the back of the van.
772
00:47:15,899 --> 00:47:18,926
Heh. So she preferred
the couch of the office.
773
00:47:19,135 --> 00:47:21,161
The Who would do a gig, right?
774
00:47:21,404 --> 00:47:24,272
You know, and we would get,
like, for the gig...
775
00:47:24,474 --> 00:47:27,774
...60 pounds, or 50 pounds, right?
776
00:47:27,977 --> 00:47:30,412
Or 30 pounds.
Really small amounts of money, right?
777
00:47:30,613 --> 00:47:33,139
- Right.
- And Kit would figure, "Hey...
778
00:47:33,616 --> 00:47:36,609
...if I take the 30 pounds
to play blackjack...
779
00:47:36,820 --> 00:47:38,982
...I might come out
with a couple of hundred...
780
00:47:39,189 --> 00:47:42,489
...but if we stay with 30, that's not gonna
pay for very much anyway."
781
00:47:44,427 --> 00:47:46,123
So that was one of the systems.
782
00:47:46,329 --> 00:47:49,493
That was a sort of like...
That didn't happen a lot...
783
00:47:49,699 --> 00:47:51,497
...but that was one of the systems.
784
00:47:51,701 --> 00:47:53,135
We had many systems.
785
00:47:53,336 --> 00:47:56,170
I loved it there.
I loved living with Kit...
786
00:47:56,372 --> 00:47:59,638
...because he was passionate, and...
787
00:47:59,843 --> 00:48:02,506
And it was a fantastic
fucking apartment too.
788
00:48:02,712 --> 00:48:05,682
Big, high ceilings
in Eaton Place, you know?
789
00:48:05,882 --> 00:48:08,875
And you'd get in a taxicab, and he'd say,
"Where you going, kid?"
790
00:48:09,118 --> 00:48:10,347
You go, "84 Eaton Place."
791
00:48:10,587 --> 00:48:12,180
He'd go, "Ooh. Ooh."
792
00:48:12,355 --> 00:48:13,355
You know?
793
00:48:13,590 --> 00:48:16,458
You could go into any bank
account and say, "I want to write... "
794
00:48:16,659 --> 00:48:20,118
Coutts or one of these sort of banks,
And say, "I want to open an account."
795
00:48:20,330 --> 00:48:22,231
Dress, and with your accent,
"Eaton PI..."
796
00:48:22,465 --> 00:48:23,956
"Of course, sir."
"And I want an overdraft.
797
00:48:24,167 --> 00:48:26,227
I want a 5000 pound overdraft."
"Of course."
798
00:48:26,469 --> 00:48:29,496
Because they started doing this,
it's what they called...
799
00:48:29,706 --> 00:48:31,299
First one they did it with
was the Bank of Scotland.
800
00:48:31,508 --> 00:48:35,673
And Stamp, they run up this... Write all
the checks up, spend all the money...
801
00:48:35,879 --> 00:48:39,407
...and then skip without paying it back
and open another one.
802
00:48:39,649 --> 00:48:42,380
Stamp used to say, "We're gonna
do another Bank of Scotland job."
803
00:48:42,852 --> 00:48:44,844
And then I also had an older brother...
804
00:48:45,054 --> 00:48:47,250
...who'd become
a successful film actor.
805
00:48:47,490 --> 00:48:50,426
Yeah, it was... He was certainly
making a lot of money, you know?
806
00:48:50,660 --> 00:48:52,652
So he... I would go to him
to get money.
807
00:48:52,862 --> 00:48:54,558
Yeah. I mean, look. We were brothers.
808
00:48:54,764 --> 00:48:58,895
I mean, he didn't just give it to me freely.
I had to sort of promise to pay it back.
809
00:48:59,135 --> 00:49:01,229
Pete said, "I was living there.
Every now and again...
810
00:49:01,437 --> 00:49:03,633
...these teenage boys
would appear at breakfast.
811
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,435
Kit would say, 'This poor boy.
I found him in the street.
812
00:49:06,676 --> 00:49:08,167
Had nowhere to stay.
I said he could stay.'"
813
00:49:08,378 --> 00:49:10,938
Like I say, that fearless quality
because he was...
814
00:49:11,180 --> 00:49:13,706
You know, to be homosexual in...
815
00:49:13,917 --> 00:49:16,216
In those years in London was illegal.
816
00:49:16,419 --> 00:49:20,220
I was in the bedroom next to his,
looking to offer him tea in the morning...
817
00:49:20,423 --> 00:49:22,517
...and there'd be
some boy in bed with him.
818
00:49:22,725 --> 00:49:26,093
But he never once
tried to seduce me...
819
00:49:26,296 --> 00:49:29,596
...and I remember feeling quite
pissed off at one point, thinking:
820
00:49:29,799 --> 00:49:31,267
"Aren't I good-looking enough?"
821
00:49:31,467 --> 00:49:33,299
It wasn't that I wanted to be gay.
822
00:49:33,536 --> 00:49:35,368
I thought he should at least
try it on if he's gay.
823
00:49:35,572 --> 00:49:38,098
And I shared the flat with him
at the office.
824
00:49:38,308 --> 00:49:41,039
Mind you, I was with
a beautiful girl as well. Ha-ha-ha.
825
00:49:41,244 --> 00:49:43,679
Maybe she came between us.
Ha-ha-ha.
826
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,281
He'd wear these suits.
827
00:49:46,482 --> 00:49:48,678
Beautiful cut suits from Savile Row...
828
00:49:48,885 --> 00:49:51,582
...but always be like this
and buttoned up wrong.
829
00:49:51,788 --> 00:49:53,723
And they'd all be... And he, I mean...
830
00:49:53,923 --> 00:49:56,483
...I've never known anybody like
Kit to smoke. Chain-smoke.
831
00:49:56,726 --> 00:50:00,060
He'd chain-smoke
Player's or Senior Service.
832
00:50:00,263 --> 00:50:02,323
These were the best cigarettes.
Untipped.
833
00:50:02,565 --> 00:50:04,466
One after the other,
he'd light one from...
834
00:50:04,701 --> 00:50:08,229
We think he used one match in his whole
life to light the very first one.
835
00:50:08,438 --> 00:50:11,203
Kit remembered he was, like, 9...
836
00:50:11,407 --> 00:50:15,344
...when, you know, one of the artists
who his father was fucking or knew...
837
00:50:15,578 --> 00:50:18,070
...or what, you know,
offered Kit his first cigarette.
838
00:50:18,281 --> 00:50:19,840
"Here, you want a cigarette, Kit?"
839
00:50:20,083 --> 00:50:22,484
There was no sort of...
The fact that he was a child.
840
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:24,984
He'd have cigarettes all over the place.
841
00:50:25,221 --> 00:50:27,588
And also, he was renowned
for setting things alight.
842
00:50:27,790 --> 00:50:31,727
The number of sofas he'd gone through.
In those days, sofas had horsehair.
843
00:50:31,928 --> 00:50:35,456
And he'd always leave cigarettes,
and they'd fall down...
844
00:50:35,665 --> 00:50:37,497
You know,
people would say things like:
845
00:50:37,734 --> 00:50:40,602
"Kit's late, what's happened?"
And they'd say, "Another fire."
846
00:51:13,770 --> 00:51:16,638
And when I started to talk
to Kit about classical music...
847
00:51:16,839 --> 00:51:20,332
...and Baroque music,
he immediately just simply...
848
00:51:20,543 --> 00:51:22,512
He didn't bother to try to educate me.
849
00:51:22,712 --> 00:51:26,149
He just chucked records at me
that were from his father's collection.
850
00:51:26,349 --> 00:51:28,841
So, wow, you know.
851
00:51:29,052 --> 00:51:30,281
Wow, wow, wow.
852
00:51:30,486 --> 00:51:32,079
He started playing classical music.
853
00:51:32,321 --> 00:51:36,053
Purcell and English classical music
that his father had championed.
854
00:51:36,292 --> 00:51:38,318
These... You know, and stuff like that.
855
00:51:38,528 --> 00:51:42,226
And Pete said as a result
of listening to this sort of stuff:
856
00:51:42,432 --> 00:51:46,301
"I developed my chord sounds"
like in "Kids Are Alright."
857
00:51:46,502 --> 00:51:50,064
The middle-chord bit was based on
some particular Purcell...
858
00:51:50,306 --> 00:51:52,673
...or music that Kit had played him.
859
00:51:52,875 --> 00:51:54,571
Because of his father's background...
860
00:51:54,811 --> 00:51:57,838
...he knew that you could add these
three-minute pieces up...
861
00:51:58,047 --> 00:52:01,040
...to make a much more important...
862
00:52:01,250 --> 00:52:02,809
...dramatic piece.
863
00:52:03,019 --> 00:52:04,180
And...
864
00:52:04,387 --> 00:52:07,915
And he had that in him
right from the beginning.
865
00:52:08,124 --> 00:52:09,956
He kept, you know:
866
00:52:10,193 --> 00:52:12,685
He was always trying
to put things in a...
867
00:52:12,895 --> 00:52:16,024
He taught me about the dramatics
of a stage show.
868
00:52:16,232 --> 00:52:18,861
"It has to kind of be like this, Roger."
869
00:52:19,068 --> 00:52:21,904
"Really? What? No.
Yeah, but wait."
870
00:52:54,871 --> 00:52:56,396
My mentoring Kit in the...
871
00:52:56,606 --> 00:53:01,909
In lots of the overview of the content
of the songs that Pete was writing...
872
00:53:02,678 --> 00:53:05,409
...we, the three of us,
were working on that angle...
873
00:53:05,615 --> 00:53:08,244
...with Pete,
how we were staging them...
874
00:53:08,451 --> 00:53:11,478
...how they looked on stage
and how those things developed...
875
00:53:11,687 --> 00:53:13,383
...you know, just fell to me.
876
00:53:13,589 --> 00:53:17,390
And then we had wrongly signed a
sort of standard-type of recording deal...
877
00:53:17,593 --> 00:53:19,926
...because we didn't know
and went into this deal.
878
00:53:20,129 --> 00:53:22,894
And after we'd been in the studio
for about three times...
879
00:53:23,099 --> 00:53:28,037
...with this producer, we realized, wow,
we'd let go of an essential ingredient...
880
00:53:28,271 --> 00:53:30,763
...to the whole process,
which was the studio work.
881
00:53:30,973 --> 00:53:33,340
We had to be in the studio
directing everything.
882
00:53:33,543 --> 00:53:36,604
We couldn't have an outsider doing that.
This guy was an outsider.
883
00:53:36,813 --> 00:53:38,281
He was a professional producer.
884
00:53:38,481 --> 00:53:41,610
Some say he was very clever,
and very good, but he wasn't...
885
00:53:41,818 --> 00:53:44,686
He wasn't part of us.
He wasn't seeing the vision.
886
00:53:44,921 --> 00:53:47,914
But it fell naturally into place.
887
00:53:48,124 --> 00:53:50,650
It wasn't really that talked about
and agreed...
888
00:53:50,860 --> 00:53:55,195
...but the in-the-studio producer
would be Kit...
889
00:53:55,431 --> 00:53:59,027
...and I would become like, the more
overall executive producer in the studio.
890
00:53:59,368 --> 00:54:03,066
We had immediate success.
I mean, we had hit records from day one.
891
00:54:03,306 --> 00:54:09,303
And we were never, ever, um,
financially balanced.
892
00:54:09,512 --> 00:54:11,811
I mean, after we had, like...
893
00:54:12,014 --> 00:54:15,314
...four or five hit records,
we had no money whatsoever.
894
00:54:15,518 --> 00:54:16,884
We were being sued, you know?
895
00:54:17,086 --> 00:54:20,545
There were bailiffs outside the office.
It was absolute chaos financially.
896
00:54:20,756 --> 00:54:25,353
Because every sort of forward move
was another level to sort of challenge.
897
00:54:26,896 --> 00:54:29,058
Because
they'd been in the film industry...
898
00:54:29,265 --> 00:54:33,259
...they understood
how a team of people...
899
00:54:33,502 --> 00:54:36,904
...can change the way that you feel
when you're creative and working.
900
00:54:37,106 --> 00:54:41,510
You know, I didn't want to be
in a band until I was 61.
901
00:54:44,747 --> 00:54:47,376
I wanted to be in a band
for a couple of years, you know?
902
00:54:47,717 --> 00:54:52,246
And I think they convinced me
that, um, it was worth staying with.
903
00:54:52,488 --> 00:54:56,482
Particularly, those years that they were
around and we worked as a team.
904
00:54:56,692 --> 00:54:58,991
The support that they gave me
to try new things...
905
00:54:59,195 --> 00:55:03,223
...was really what made it all last.
906
00:55:03,432 --> 00:55:09,394
But there was another magic, which was
that John Entwistle is a fucking genius.
907
00:55:09,605 --> 00:55:14,441
A fucking genius
on the bass guitar.
908
00:55:14,644 --> 00:55:17,375
I mean, an astonishing fucking genius.
909
00:55:17,647 --> 00:55:21,379
You know, it wasn't something that we
were particularly aware of at the time...
910
00:55:21,584 --> 00:55:25,419
...but Jesus Christ, you know,
what he did was just beyond conception.
911
00:55:25,621 --> 00:55:27,647
And that Keith Moon...
912
00:55:27,890 --> 00:55:30,587
...was not a drummer.
913
00:55:32,094 --> 00:55:34,222
He just wasn't a drummer.
914
00:55:34,430 --> 00:55:37,594
You know? He did something else.
915
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,133
You know? And Roger,
of course, is, you know...
916
00:55:40,336 --> 00:55:43,465
...probably the only
conventional figure in the band.
917
00:55:43,673 --> 00:55:47,269
And for years, for years and years
and years, until Tommy...
918
00:55:47,476 --> 00:55:50,105
...he didn't know what the fuck
he was doing in the band.
919
00:55:50,313 --> 00:55:53,147
He didn't know what to do,
how to behave.
920
00:55:53,349 --> 00:55:56,114
And has turned out to be
one of the great...
921
00:55:56,319 --> 00:56:00,484
...modern interpreters,
editors and frontmen...
922
00:56:00,690 --> 00:56:02,784
...of our business.
923
00:56:02,992 --> 00:56:09,455
Not of the business of what Kit
and Chris recognized in the band.
924
00:56:09,765 --> 00:56:13,065
What they recognized there, that was
what was great about Roger then...
925
00:56:13,269 --> 00:56:15,761
...was the fact that he was lost.
926
00:56:16,572 --> 00:56:18,939
And that would he find himself?
927
00:56:19,141 --> 00:56:21,474
♪ I can go any way ♪♪
928
00:56:21,677 --> 00:56:25,273
Kit and Chris were
used to working and creating teams...
929
00:56:25,481 --> 00:56:27,109
...where everybody had a function.
930
00:56:27,316 --> 00:56:32,448
But that also... I suppose that sense
of there only ever being one director.
931
00:56:32,655 --> 00:56:37,025
That doesn't mean that there's only
one creative person in a team.
932
00:56:37,226 --> 00:56:40,321
It just means you have one person
that has to have the last call...
933
00:56:40,529 --> 00:56:42,327
...because otherwise
you'd have chaos.
934
00:56:42,531 --> 00:56:48,095
And rock bands are, by nature, groups
of creative people with no director.
935
00:56:48,304 --> 00:56:51,172
As soon as somebody says,
"By the way, I'm the director."
936
00:56:51,340 --> 00:56:54,105
He goes, "No, I'm the director."
Or, "No, I'm the director."
937
00:56:54,310 --> 00:56:55,710
It's like gang warfare.
938
00:56:55,911 --> 00:56:58,904
And Roger was still a street fighter
in those days.
939
00:56:59,148 --> 00:57:03,813
He would win arguments by looking
at you, and you got the feeling that:
940
00:57:04,020 --> 00:57:07,718
"If I don't acquiesce to his point of view
right now, he's gonna kill me."
941
00:57:07,923 --> 00:57:10,324
It took quite an amount
of wit and intelligence...
942
00:57:10,493 --> 00:57:14,897
...and also people management
for Kit and Chris to be able to juggle it.
943
00:57:15,698 --> 00:57:18,725
And obviously, they must have
kind of manipulated a bit.
944
00:57:19,402 --> 00:57:21,871
But you know,
like all good manipulators...
945
00:57:22,071 --> 00:57:24,063
...you don't notice
when it's done to you.
946
00:57:24,507 --> 00:57:27,534
Didn't he tell Roger he had to
actually get rid of his first wife?
947
00:57:27,743 --> 00:57:29,507
- No.
- No?
948
00:57:29,712 --> 00:57:31,704
Well, he, it was kind of...
949
00:57:31,914 --> 00:57:34,543
- As far as I know, I didn't even know...
- It wasn't good.
950
00:57:34,750 --> 00:57:36,150
...that was Roger's wife.
951
00:57:36,352 --> 00:57:38,651
Yeah, Roger was married
when he was very young.
952
00:57:38,854 --> 00:57:41,153
- And...
- And he was 19...
953
00:57:41,357 --> 00:57:45,727
...and Kit said to him, "It's not a
good idea for you to have a wife."
954
00:57:45,928 --> 00:57:48,921
And so he didn't get rid of his wife
because of that...
955
00:57:49,165 --> 00:57:51,293
...but he actually kept her
out of the picture.
956
00:57:51,534 --> 00:57:53,696
- Right.
- She was not in the picture.
957
00:57:53,903 --> 00:57:57,601
I mean, I remember that Kit
was very, um...
958
00:57:57,807 --> 00:58:00,936
Always concerned, though, that...
959
00:58:01,410 --> 00:58:02,537
...she got money.
960
00:58:02,745 --> 00:58:05,476
The idea I've got
is called "Glittering Girl." It's...
961
00:58:05,714 --> 00:58:08,445
- That's a very good title.
- It's, slightly different to that.
962
00:58:08,684 --> 00:58:10,983
It's more beaty,
more punchy sort of thing.
963
00:58:11,220 --> 00:58:15,214
I'll give you a few bars.
964
00:58:17,126 --> 00:58:18,389
I want it to sort of be very:
965
00:58:21,764 --> 00:58:24,598
- Like that. No, it's got drums...
- Some guitar in...
966
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:27,326
- ...and where the whole group will be...
- Yeah.
967
00:58:34,210 --> 00:58:36,441
♪ She wasn't a fool ♪
968
00:58:36,645 --> 00:58:39,274
♪ That glittering girl ♪
969
00:58:41,350 --> 00:58:43,478
♪ She followed the rules ♪
970
00:58:43,719 --> 00:58:46,279
♪ That shimmering pearl ♪
971
00:58:47,990 --> 00:58:50,585
♪ Said the rules Mama preaches ♪
972
00:58:50,793 --> 00:58:53,160
♪ You just gotta break ♪
973
00:58:55,364 --> 00:58:57,526
♪ The things Mama teaches ♪
974
00:58:57,766 --> 00:59:01,168
♪ You just gotta shake ♪
975
00:59:02,271 --> 00:59:04,365
♪ She isn't a fool ♪
976
00:59:04,607 --> 00:59:07,941
♪ That slender love figure ♪
977
00:59:09,145 --> 00:59:11,376
♪ She follows the rules ♪
978
00:59:11,614 --> 00:59:15,346
♪ And made money bigger ♪
979
00:59:16,118 --> 00:59:18,280
♪ She isn't a fool ♪
980
00:59:18,487 --> 00:59:20,683
♪ That glittering girl ♪
981
00:59:20,890 --> 00:59:23,951
Big key. Coming in harmony.
That could take it to the next bit.
982
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:27,255
- Yeah.
- And there's a very quiet bit after that.
983
00:59:28,864 --> 00:59:31,026
Be good for Keith, yeah.
984
00:59:35,271 --> 00:59:38,571
♪ You just gotta shake ♪
985
00:59:39,141 --> 00:59:40,165
Yeah.
986
00:59:40,342 --> 00:59:45,042
♪ She isn't a fool
That slender love figure ♪ ♪
987
00:59:47,816 --> 00:59:49,182
- That sort of...
- That's...
988
00:59:49,385 --> 00:59:52,082
I think, really, that's much
more direct, which...
989
00:59:52,321 --> 00:59:54,085
And when I miss Kit,
is in the studio.
990
00:59:54,323 --> 00:59:57,725
Although, you know, he spent a lot of time
mentoring me as a writer.
991
00:59:57,927 --> 01:00:00,055
There was this sense
that everything about the band...
992
01:00:00,296 --> 01:00:02,288
- ...was being honored in the studio.
- Yeah.
993
01:00:02,464 --> 01:00:04,399
You know, if I'd written three songs...
994
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:06,728
...and presented them to him,
"They were all good."
995
01:00:07,403 --> 01:00:09,065
That's how his response was.
996
01:00:09,305 --> 01:00:11,399
He had found something good
about all of them.
997
01:00:11,607 --> 01:00:12,802
And he wouldn't,
he wouldn't kind of say:
998
01:00:13,008 --> 01:00:15,500
"And that, they're all good,
but that one's great."
999
01:00:15,711 --> 01:00:18,078
It'd be, "They're all good.
Let's work on that one."
1000
01:00:18,314 --> 01:00:21,045
And what I started to realize
over a period of many years...
1001
01:00:21,250 --> 01:00:25,085
...was the one that he'd pick to work on
would be the one that he really thought...
1002
01:00:25,321 --> 01:00:28,189
...either was promising or great,
and the others, perhaps...
1003
01:00:28,390 --> 01:00:30,325
...would just slide into the background.
1004
01:00:30,526 --> 01:00:33,963
When I go back through my catalog
of the material...
1005
01:00:34,196 --> 01:00:36,188
...that I used to play to Kit...
1006
01:00:36,398 --> 01:00:38,629
...there must be 80 percent
of what I wrote...
1007
01:00:38,867 --> 01:00:40,631
- ...just went on a back burner.
- Right.
1008
01:00:40,869 --> 01:00:44,033
It didn't even get to be heard
by the band until years later.
1009
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:47,335
So I think it's that capacity
that he had...
1010
01:00:47,543 --> 01:00:49,535
...to accentuate the positive.
1011
01:00:49,745 --> 01:00:52,647
He had a natural ear for commercial.
1012
01:00:52,881 --> 01:00:55,077
Something that you could
sell out there.
1013
01:00:55,284 --> 01:00:57,776
But the commercial
wasn't just a record.
1014
01:00:57,987 --> 01:00:59,979
It was a whole package...
1015
01:01:00,222 --> 01:01:04,853
...and that whole package also included
attitude and philosophy, stagecraft...
1016
01:01:05,060 --> 01:01:06,722
...and art school kind of ideas.
1017
01:01:06,929 --> 01:01:09,421
And I think if you grab an idea
and you run with it...
1018
01:01:09,632 --> 01:01:11,601
...the chances are
somebody's gonna sneer at you.
1019
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:14,895
You know, and if it's successful, um...
1020
01:01:15,104 --> 01:01:18,641
...and they didn't think of it first,
they're gonna be particularly pissed off.
1021
01:01:18,674 --> 01:01:20,609
Well, originally...
1022
01:01:20,809 --> 01:01:25,008
..."My Generation" was going to be
like a 16 bar Jimmy Reed song.
1023
01:01:25,247 --> 01:01:26,806
You know, um...
1024
01:01:27,016 --> 01:01:29,247
♪ People try to pull us down ♪
1025
01:01:29,451 --> 01:01:31,818
♪ Talkin' about my generation ♪ ♪
1026
01:01:32,021 --> 01:01:33,922
♪ Just because we get around ♪
1027
01:01:34,123 --> 01:01:35,921
♪ Talkin' about my generation ♪
1028
01:01:36,091 --> 01:01:38,651
♪ Things they do look awfully cold ♪
1029
01:01:38,894 --> 01:01:40,487
♪ Talkin' about my generation ♪
1030
01:01:40,696 --> 01:01:42,790
♪ Hope I die before I get old ♪
1031
01:01:42,998 --> 01:01:46,935
And it was Chris Stamp
who suggested to Pete...
1032
01:01:47,136 --> 01:01:52,439
...that the character in the song "My
Generation" have a typical teenage stutter.
1033
01:01:52,608 --> 01:01:53,803
♪ Talkin' about my generation ♪
1034
01:01:54,109 --> 01:01:56,271
♪ And don't try to dig what we all say ♪ ♪
1035
01:01:56,478 --> 01:01:58,947
Nobody else had ever used
such a dynamic...
1036
01:01:59,148 --> 01:02:01,982
...and a true dynamic to society...
1037
01:02:02,184 --> 01:02:06,121
...as a kid blocked up on pills
with a stutter.
1038
01:02:06,455 --> 01:02:07,684
It was so true.
1039
01:02:07,923 --> 01:02:10,654
It wasn't a gimmick at all,
because kids stuttered.
1040
01:02:11,060 --> 01:02:13,552
Especially when they were on pills...
1041
01:02:13,796 --> 01:02:17,233
...on French blues
and black bombers and Drinamyl.
1042
01:02:17,466 --> 01:02:21,870
And, it worked, and of course,
it made everybody sit up and take notice.
1043
01:02:23,339 --> 01:02:25,968
I've heard a lot about you and the
rest of the group taking drugs, Pete.
1044
01:02:26,175 --> 01:02:29,805
Does this mean you're usually blocked up
when you're actually on stage?
1045
01:02:30,012 --> 01:02:33,710
No, but it means we're blocked
up all the time, you know.
1046
01:02:33,949 --> 01:02:36,077
The intensity was always
to keep The Who...
1047
01:02:36,318 --> 01:02:39,948
...like a new form of crime in as much
as they were never meant to be...
1048
01:02:40,155 --> 01:02:41,953
...like, a "professional showbiz group."
1049
01:02:42,157 --> 01:02:45,821
They weren't handsome,
you know, they weren't nice.
1050
01:02:46,028 --> 01:02:49,362
You know, they were outsiders, man.
They were sort of like, misfits.
1051
01:02:49,565 --> 01:02:53,468
You know, they were looking to sort of,
like, claim their place.
1052
01:02:53,669 --> 01:02:55,900
Remember those shows
that we used to do in cinemas...
1053
01:02:56,105 --> 01:02:58,540
...and that guy,
who was a big fan of the band...
1054
01:02:58,741 --> 01:03:00,266
...who banned us
from the Granada Circuit...
1055
01:03:00,509 --> 01:03:02,774
...because he disapproved
of us smashing our instruments?
1056
01:03:03,011 --> 01:03:06,209
- Do you remember that?
- I remember it vaguely.
1057
01:03:06,415 --> 01:03:08,179
"And the pity because
you're such a good band."
1058
01:03:08,384 --> 01:03:10,683
And it was always me he would
take out and give these lectures.
1059
01:03:10,886 --> 01:03:13,913
And I was just reduced to kind of
telling him to fuck off.
1060
01:03:14,123 --> 01:03:17,116
Kit was trying to explain,
"You have to have this band on." Yeah.
1061
01:03:17,359 --> 01:03:19,521
- This is a different kind of music.
- It's a different kind of thing.
1062
01:03:19,728 --> 01:03:24,189
You know, there was something
about not honoring electric guitars.
1063
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:26,266
A, they were electric.
1064
01:03:26,502 --> 01:03:30,132
You know, we were looking at sound
as sound, not just music.
1065
01:03:30,372 --> 01:03:34,275
The electrification, if you like,
the modernization of life, right?
1066
01:03:34,510 --> 01:03:37,708
And us as a generation had seen that
first in destruction, you know...
1067
01:03:37,913 --> 01:03:40,075
...in a war, in a... On a beautiful city...
1068
01:03:40,282 --> 01:03:43,548
...that we're living in had been bombed.
It was abstract.
1069
01:03:44,253 --> 01:03:45,778
And it was a huge statement
for The Who audience...
1070
01:03:46,021 --> 01:03:48,718
...because The Who audience
were coming to grips.
1071
01:03:48,924 --> 01:03:52,588
The Who audience was trying to, sort of,
like, get some life in their body...
1072
01:03:52,795 --> 01:03:54,559
...and life in their head
and life in their hearts.
1073
01:03:54,763 --> 01:03:57,392
And life wasn't really offering
them that, you know.
1074
01:03:57,599 --> 01:04:01,092
It was offering them a sort of an abstract,
isolated form of life.
1075
01:04:01,303 --> 01:04:03,169
You know, they were saying,
here's TV...
1076
01:04:03,405 --> 01:04:04,896
...but they were also
being sort of told...
1077
01:04:05,107 --> 01:04:07,576
...but, you know, you're still
a working class kid.
1078
01:04:08,177 --> 01:04:10,237
You're still white trash.
1079
01:04:11,447 --> 01:04:13,609
The group were acting out,
because, you know...
1080
01:04:13,816 --> 01:04:16,684
...we were like a fucked up
family system right here, you know.
1081
01:04:16,919 --> 01:04:19,354
So there's a lot of like,
weird behaviors going on...
1082
01:04:19,588 --> 01:04:25,118
...and one of them was Roger,
whacked Keith Moon...
1083
01:04:25,327 --> 01:04:27,990
...and then they had a fight on stage.
Thank God, right?
1084
01:04:28,197 --> 01:04:30,598
Thank God it wasn't wasted
in the dressing room.
1085
01:04:32,601 --> 01:04:34,194
So they had a fight on stage...
1086
01:04:34,436 --> 01:04:37,372
...and, um, Keith said, um...
1087
01:04:37,606 --> 01:04:40,007
...that he'd never fucking work
with Roger again.
1088
01:04:40,275 --> 01:04:44,474
So Kit and I sort of said, "Okay,
so the band won't be the same band."
1089
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:47,309
You know, so we presented
an idea to them.
1090
01:04:47,516 --> 01:04:49,849
We'd create a band around Roger...
1091
01:04:50,085 --> 01:04:52,452
...and then the three of them would...
That sort of stuff.
1092
01:04:52,654 --> 01:04:55,089
But we were just winging it.
1093
01:04:55,290 --> 01:04:57,782
We really wanted them
to be the four guys.
1094
01:04:58,060 --> 01:05:00,154
I remember I got
a phone call from Chris...
1095
01:05:00,362 --> 01:05:04,299
...and he said that he's spoken to Roger
and that he got him to promise...
1096
01:05:04,500 --> 01:05:08,096
...not to resort to violence
to win arguments again.
1097
01:05:08,303 --> 01:05:12,707
And I said something like, "Good luck.
I hope you can pull it off."
1098
01:05:12,908 --> 01:05:14,467
And, you know, in fact he did.
1099
01:05:14,676 --> 01:05:17,043
That was really our only way
of dealing with...
1100
01:05:17,246 --> 01:05:18,509
We all had our own methods.
1101
01:05:18,714 --> 01:05:19,875
- I would...
- That's right.
1102
01:05:20,115 --> 01:05:21,549
You weren't as good as Keith.
1103
01:05:21,750 --> 01:05:23,309
He was...
1104
01:05:23,752 --> 01:05:27,883
He was incredibly cruel when...
My God, I paid for that day.
1105
01:05:28,123 --> 01:05:31,616
I had three years of hell,
and he would deliberately goad me.
1106
01:05:31,827 --> 01:05:34,319
He would do anything
just to try and make me explode.
1107
01:05:34,530 --> 01:05:36,226
It was a hell.
1108
01:05:36,431 --> 01:05:40,425
It was a painful time, and you and I didn't
talk about it really at all at the time.
1109
01:05:40,669 --> 01:05:43,833
I was living in the office. Went
from the back of the van to the office.
1110
01:05:44,039 --> 01:05:46,702
But he went through
a kind of strange misery of his own.
1111
01:05:46,909 --> 01:05:48,878
- Do you remember that thing where he...
- I knew he was miserable.
1112
01:05:49,077 --> 01:05:52,514
That period where
he was on stage and he was crying...
1113
01:05:52,714 --> 01:05:55,013
- Yeah.
- ...in deep depression.
1114
01:05:55,217 --> 01:05:58,085
You could just tell that
there was something that he wanted...
1115
01:05:58,287 --> 01:05:59,846
...that he wasn't ever gonna get.
1116
01:06:00,055 --> 01:06:03,856
- Yeah.
- And in a way, he wanted us to deliver it.
1117
01:06:04,059 --> 01:06:05,527
- Yeah.
- We couldn't deliver it.
1118
01:06:05,727 --> 01:06:07,355
And he couldn't articulate it.
1119
01:06:07,563 --> 01:06:10,533
I remember you were always
more sympathetic to him than I was...
1120
01:06:10,732 --> 01:06:12,564
...when he was in that state.
"Fuck off," you know?
1121
01:06:12,768 --> 01:06:13,861
I remember you going up
and putting your arm around him...
1122
01:06:14,069 --> 01:06:15,537
...and saying,
"What can... What is it, mate?
1123
01:06:15,737 --> 01:06:16,761
- What can we do?"
- Yeah.
1124
01:06:16,972 --> 01:06:18,270
And I remember saying
to you, "Tell him to fuck...
1125
01:06:18,473 --> 01:06:20,738
You know, stop taking his stupid
whatever it is he's taking."
1126
01:06:20,943 --> 01:06:22,741
And you said, "No, there's something
wrong with him.
1127
01:06:22,945 --> 01:06:24,709
There's something deeply wrong here."
1128
01:06:24,913 --> 01:06:27,940
And he was just... He had a...
What looked like a nervous breakdown.
1129
01:06:28,183 --> 01:06:31,483
He was obviously on some drug or other.
But it had led to a condition...
1130
01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:34,383
...that was definitely
a manic depression.
1131
01:06:34,590 --> 01:06:36,889
- It lasted for about two weeks.
- Yeah, yeah.
1132
01:06:37,092 --> 01:06:38,617
- And...
- Like he became schizophrenic.
1133
01:06:38,827 --> 01:06:41,422
- Wasn't it? Very strange.
- Yeah.
1134
01:06:41,630 --> 01:06:44,623
I think we all knew what we had.
I remember thinking certainly...
1135
01:06:44,833 --> 01:06:46,768
...if this band breaks apart now...
1136
01:06:46,969 --> 01:06:49,700
...what I've got left
is never gonna equal it.
1137
01:06:49,905 --> 01:06:54,434
We somehow eased that through,
diplomatically, ahem...
1138
01:06:54,643 --> 01:06:56,134
...and Roger...
1139
01:06:56,345 --> 01:06:58,974
...wonderfully agreed
to stop hitting people.
1140
01:06:59,214 --> 01:07:01,649
And he's stood up to that
until today.
1141
01:07:01,850 --> 01:07:04,820
And they... And it worked.
1142
01:07:05,020 --> 01:07:10,516
So their end of the family
was broken up for a period...
1143
01:07:10,759 --> 01:07:13,786
...and we managed to sort of
get over the breakup...
1144
01:07:13,996 --> 01:07:15,658
...you know, and come back together.
1145
01:07:15,864 --> 01:07:19,028
And then there were lots
of bits and pieces like that.
1146
01:07:19,267 --> 01:07:21,099
- I was thrown out.
- No, I was thrown out.
1147
01:07:21,303 --> 01:07:23,295
- No, I was thrown out too.
- Ha-ha-ha.
1148
01:07:23,605 --> 01:07:26,871
Now what actually happened was that
I discovered that Keith and John...
1149
01:07:27,109 --> 01:07:30,341
...were forming this group
with Jimmy Page called Led Zeppelin.
1150
01:07:31,813 --> 01:07:34,442
That's what they were up to.
God knows I'd had no idea...
1151
01:07:34,650 --> 01:07:36,949
...that they were gonna form
a heavy metal band...
1152
01:07:37,152 --> 01:07:39,485
...which is what they were talking
about doing, John and Keith.
1153
01:07:39,688 --> 01:07:42,624
I'd gone through that thing in Paris...
1154
01:07:42,824 --> 01:07:48,491
...of hearing, um, Keith and John
talking about me behind my back...
1155
01:07:48,697 --> 01:07:50,893
...in a way that was
very, very disparaging.
1156
01:07:51,133 --> 01:07:53,295
Dear, dear Pete.
1157
01:07:56,672 --> 01:08:00,575
I was about to go into a hotel room
and be with them, and I just turned back...
1158
01:08:00,809 --> 01:08:03,677
...and I went to my room
and just sat there and thought.
1159
01:08:03,979 --> 01:08:06,348
I felt like a real outsider.
1160
01:08:15,090 --> 01:08:18,993
Kit and I were in a club. We saw
Jimi. He's just played with the group.
1161
01:08:19,194 --> 01:08:20,594
It wasn't his show.
1162
01:08:20,829 --> 01:08:23,196
He just jammed with the group,
and we saw that...
1163
01:08:23,398 --> 01:08:24,696
...and we heard him as well.
1164
01:08:24,900 --> 01:08:27,392
And we saw him,
and we thought he's amazing.
1165
01:08:33,809 --> 01:08:37,109
And we went up afterwards,
and Chas Chandler was there...
1166
01:08:37,345 --> 01:08:40,338
...and we realized that Chas
was the guy taking care of him.
1167
01:08:40,549 --> 01:08:43,576
So Jimi's sort of standing there,
and we're talking to Chas...
1168
01:08:43,752 --> 01:08:46,347
...and we said to Chas, "Listen, does he...
1169
01:08:46,555 --> 01:08:50,890
Can we... Can we produce him?" Right?
And Chas said, "Well, I'm doing that."
1170
01:08:51,093 --> 01:08:53,187
We said, "Okay."
We said, "Can we manage him?"
1171
01:08:53,395 --> 01:08:56,365
And he said, "Well, The Animals,
you know, Mike, is doing that."
1172
01:08:56,565 --> 01:08:58,864
And we said,
"Has he got a record label?"
1173
01:08:59,067 --> 01:09:01,195
And he said, "No."
We said, "We'll do that then." Heh.
1174
01:09:01,403 --> 01:09:03,770
And we had talked about
having a record label...
1175
01:09:04,239 --> 01:09:07,266
...but we'd never actually...
We hadn't actually put it into place.
1176
01:09:07,476 --> 01:09:10,036
So we immediately put it into place
to get Jimi.
1177
01:09:10,245 --> 01:09:12,271
So you offered
Jimi Hendrix a record deal...
1178
01:09:12,481 --> 01:09:13,972
...but you didn't actually have
a record company?
1179
01:09:14,216 --> 01:09:16,208
Right, that's right, that's right.
1180
01:09:16,752 --> 01:09:19,153
We didn't have a record company,
but we intended to have one.
1181
01:09:19,387 --> 01:09:20,650
And so he was the beginning.
1182
01:09:20,889 --> 01:09:22,983
Kit was the first guy...
1183
01:09:23,225 --> 01:09:25,626
...to start an independent record label...
1184
01:09:25,861 --> 01:09:28,421
...you know, in the world.
1185
01:09:28,630 --> 01:09:30,963
And he went to Polydor
and he got a deal.
1186
01:09:31,166 --> 01:09:33,226
I had got that artwork done of the f...
1187
01:09:33,435 --> 01:09:35,370
You know, have you ever seen
the Track Record artwork?
1188
01:09:35,570 --> 01:09:38,130
You know, it's like a...
It's a stylus on a record.
1189
01:09:38,373 --> 01:09:40,604
The arm of the stylus
coming out onto a record...
1190
01:09:40,809 --> 01:09:43,404
...only it's a T, but that was the design.
1191
01:09:43,612 --> 01:09:47,481
- I mean, and it was done overnight.
- Track was the other home.
1192
01:09:47,682 --> 01:09:49,913
- It's where everyone went.
- It was great. It was a great vibe.
1193
01:09:50,118 --> 01:09:51,780
And you didn't say
I'm going down the office.
1194
01:09:51,987 --> 01:09:53,512
- No, no, no.
- Going down to Track.
1195
01:09:53,755 --> 01:09:56,088
And it wasn't very much
of an office, was it?
1196
01:09:56,291 --> 01:09:57,315
- It was great.
- It was great.
1197
01:09:57,526 --> 01:09:58,585
- It was wonderful.
- But, I mean, it wasn't...
1198
01:09:58,794 --> 01:10:00,092
There wasn't a lot of, sort of,
like, business going on there.
1199
01:10:00,295 --> 01:10:01,627
- Do you remember?
- It felt like it.
1200
01:10:01,897 --> 01:10:05,493
But it was ideas driven, right?
It was ideas driven.
1201
01:10:09,838 --> 01:10:12,501
But you've got sufficient
financial backing.
1202
01:10:12,707 --> 01:10:15,836
Hold on, sir. Kit? Problem.
1203
01:10:16,111 --> 01:10:20,549
- Phillip's had his guitar stolen.
- Christ. Um...
1204
01:10:20,982 --> 01:10:24,282
- Can you try and borrow one from Pete?
- I'll get on to Pete straight away.
1205
01:10:24,486 --> 01:10:28,116
We wanted to do all of this
message stuff, but we embraced all of it.
1206
01:10:28,323 --> 01:10:30,485
We were not afraid
of commercialism at all.
1207
01:10:30,692 --> 01:10:32,490
I am the god of hellfire!
1208
01:10:32,694 --> 01:10:34,287
And I bring you...
1209
01:10:34,496 --> 01:10:36,124
♪ Fire ♪
1210
01:10:36,665 --> 01:10:38,691
♪ I'll take you to burn ♪♪
1211
01:10:40,802 --> 01:10:46,241
Track was the first time you
and Kit did anything outside of The Who...
1212
01:10:46,474 --> 01:10:49,569
...and then all of the sudden,
Kit was producing other artists.
1213
01:10:49,811 --> 01:10:52,076
And it did feel strange
to me at the time.
1214
01:10:53,315 --> 01:10:57,150
Kit, to his credit, used to include me.
I mean, when Arthur Brown was doing...
1215
01:10:57,652 --> 01:10:59,814
...when he was mixing
"Fire," he'd say, "Come down.
1216
01:11:00,021 --> 01:11:01,649
I want you to help me mix it."
1217
01:11:01,857 --> 01:11:03,382
But it's just how it felt.
It was very strange.
1218
01:11:03,592 --> 01:11:06,494
Is it going to be an R and B
label or an experimental label?
1219
01:11:06,828 --> 01:11:08,956
We're gonna have a lot
of experimental stuff on it.
1220
01:11:09,164 --> 01:11:11,565
In fact, Pete Townshend is...
1221
01:11:11,766 --> 01:11:13,826
...heading up
a mysterious department...
1222
01:11:14,002 --> 01:11:16,699
...called Jazz and New Sounds.
- For me, the Track years...
1223
01:11:16,872 --> 01:11:19,205
...were exciting because
I had Thunderclap Newman.
1224
01:11:19,407 --> 01:11:21,171
- Right.
- While I was doing demos for Tommy...
1225
01:11:21,376 --> 01:11:24,744
...I'm knocking the demos for Tommy out,
you know, I'm working on...
1226
01:11:24,980 --> 01:11:28,075
...this little band, you know...
1227
01:11:28,283 --> 01:11:31,583
...and kind of cooking stuff up
out of nothing, having this brain fart.
1228
01:11:31,786 --> 01:11:34,915
Thinking, "That guitar player,
that guy, put them together." Da-da-da-da.
1229
01:11:35,123 --> 01:11:36,853
- Yeah.
- Next thing, it was number one.
1230
01:11:37,058 --> 01:11:39,618
So there's this sense that,
"This is easy." You know?
1231
01:11:39,861 --> 01:11:42,353
It was only hard because
before it was with The Who.
1232
01:11:42,564 --> 01:11:44,726
You know, they're very hard.
They're difficult.
1233
01:11:44,933 --> 01:11:47,300
But when you work
with somebody else, it's easy.
1234
01:11:47,535 --> 01:11:49,265
Arthur Brown, number one.
1235
01:11:49,504 --> 01:11:51,132
You know, "Something In The Air,"
number one.
1236
01:11:51,373 --> 01:11:53,035
You know, Jimi Hendrix, number one.
1237
01:11:53,241 --> 01:11:56,643
Marc Bolan and John's Children
with "Ride A White Swan," number one.
1238
01:11:56,878 --> 01:11:59,643
We couldn't get fucking number ones.
Everybody else was getting number one.
1239
01:11:59,881 --> 01:12:03,010
Track had four number ones
in a row with other artists.
1240
01:12:03,218 --> 01:12:04,550
Marsha Hunt went to number four.
1241
01:12:05,620 --> 01:12:09,921
I mean, you know,
ours were down at ten, 14. Ha, ha.
1242
01:12:10,125 --> 01:12:12,287
No. Hold on, sir. Kit?
1243
01:12:12,527 --> 01:12:15,929
The feeling I had was that
we were never gonna make it in America.
1244
01:12:16,131 --> 01:12:17,656
- Yeah.
- Never in a million years.
1245
01:12:17,899 --> 01:12:19,800
I just remember kind of
looking at the kind of bands...
1246
01:12:20,035 --> 01:12:21,594
...that were making it
in America, thinking, you know...
1247
01:12:21,803 --> 01:12:25,035
...if they like Eric Burdon, we're fucked.
1248
01:12:25,307 --> 01:12:27,799
Where especially in the States
would you like to visit?
1249
01:12:28,043 --> 01:12:31,036
- California, I think.
- Why California?
1250
01:12:31,246 --> 01:12:33,647
There's a good recording
studio over there, Western.
1251
01:12:33,815 --> 01:12:35,340
And the surfing and hot rods.
1252
01:12:35,583 --> 01:12:38,417
Yeah. Surfing and the hot rods
and the girls over there.
1253
01:12:38,620 --> 01:12:42,057
Why do you want to record in
America? Why does this appeal to you?
1254
01:12:42,257 --> 01:12:44,488
It's because it's different
from recording here.
1255
01:12:44,693 --> 01:12:46,184
- Sunnier.
- Better studios.
1256
01:12:46,428 --> 01:12:49,057
No, I'm just... I'm not worried
about the studios or the sound.
1257
01:12:49,264 --> 01:12:51,290
But when you go outside,
you can get a tan...
1258
01:12:51,499 --> 01:12:53,161
...which is more than you can get here.
1259
01:12:55,136 --> 01:12:59,631
We really saw
the huge complexity of what America is.
1260
01:12:59,841 --> 01:13:01,366
Can you imagine Jackson, Mississippi...
1261
01:13:01,609 --> 01:13:04,670
...Chicago, Detroit, you know,
and then Baton Rouge.
1262
01:13:04,879 --> 01:13:10,011
And we went everywhere on this tour
in this horrible old prop plane.
1263
01:13:10,352 --> 01:13:12,344
And it had bunks in it.
1264
01:13:12,620 --> 01:13:15,283
These sort of, like, rope bunks.
1265
01:13:15,490 --> 01:13:19,222
It was really shitty, but it was...
We were all on it, all these three groups.
1266
01:13:19,461 --> 01:13:23,296
And there was a sort of
old sort of American tour manager.
1267
01:13:23,498 --> 01:13:26,662
And especially in the South,
when the plane had st...
1268
01:13:26,868 --> 01:13:29,167
You know, landed and we were
about to get out...
1269
01:13:29,371 --> 01:13:32,864
...he would stand at the door before we
get out and he would tell us all...
1270
01:13:33,108 --> 01:13:35,043
...he'd say, "Listen, in this state...
1271
01:13:35,243 --> 01:13:39,476
...fucking women who are under,
you know, over, under 20 or..."
1272
01:13:39,681 --> 01:13:42,116
- Because it was different in every state.
- Every time he said:
1273
01:13:42,317 --> 01:13:44,809
"Because you could go to prison for this.
You could do this," you know.
1274
01:13:45,020 --> 01:13:49,355
So the local rules
of where we were going...
1275
01:13:49,557 --> 01:13:51,719
...were always told to us
before we got off the plane.
1276
01:13:51,926 --> 01:13:53,326
And they were mostly about fucking.
1277
01:13:53,561 --> 01:13:54,654
♪ Magic bus ♪♪
1278
01:13:54,829 --> 01:13:57,822
And then they started
releasing really mediocre songs...
1279
01:13:58,033 --> 01:14:03,199
...like "Magic Bus", "Dogs",
"Call Me Lightning", things like this...
1280
01:14:03,405 --> 01:14:06,341
...that were sort of not really
up to The Who's standard.
1281
01:14:06,541 --> 01:14:09,375
And he said, "Well, we've run out
of songs basically."
1282
01:14:09,577 --> 01:14:12,513
And it looked very much
like it was the end of the band.
1283
01:14:15,417 --> 01:14:20,219
Before Tommy we were
finished. Without something audacious...
1284
01:14:20,422 --> 01:14:23,221
...The Who were done for.
So, you know...
1285
01:14:23,425 --> 01:14:27,089
...somewhere there,
Kit and I took a gamble.
1286
01:14:27,295 --> 01:14:29,787
I spoke earlier about the fact that...
1287
01:14:30,031 --> 01:14:33,763
...Kit had nurtured me as a composer.
1288
01:14:33,968 --> 01:14:36,062
I don't mean a songwriter.
1289
01:14:36,271 --> 01:14:39,207
I mean a composer.
I wanted to learn to orchestrate...
1290
01:14:39,407 --> 01:14:42,707
...and I wanted to write an opera.
Kit came in sideways...
1291
01:14:42,911 --> 01:14:49,408
...and he was the one that,
in a sense, accused me of vanity.
1292
01:14:50,085 --> 01:14:52,884
He said, "You know,
The Who need a new single."
1293
01:14:53,088 --> 01:14:55,114
You know, and I said, "Well, you know,
I'm working on this opera."
1294
01:14:55,323 --> 01:14:57,815
He said, "Well, you know,
how's it gonna help The Who?"
1295
01:14:58,059 --> 01:14:59,925
And I said, "Don't know."
1296
01:15:00,562 --> 01:15:03,293
He said, "Well, what have you got?" I said,
"I've got this, this, this, and this."
1297
01:15:03,498 --> 01:15:07,629
We were just totally immersed
in this venture.
1298
01:15:08,503 --> 01:15:12,201
You know, the... Any growth,
any personal self-growth...
1299
01:15:12,407 --> 01:15:16,902
...was happening within this space.
1300
01:15:17,145 --> 01:15:19,637
It didn't really happen outside of it.
1301
01:15:21,249 --> 01:15:22,842
It started to end about 19...
1302
01:15:23,084 --> 01:15:27,454
You know, that closeness
began to end, really, after Tommy.
1303
01:15:27,655 --> 01:15:30,420
That's the... That's the
second era, so to speak.
1304
01:15:30,992 --> 01:15:33,359
Tommy was the major turning
point for that band.
1305
01:15:33,595 --> 01:15:35,223
You know,
there was up to Tommy...
1306
01:15:35,430 --> 01:15:36,489
...and after Tommy.
1307
01:15:36,764 --> 01:15:38,596
And Tommy was the turning point.
1308
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:41,634
Pete said to me, he said,
at the time of Tommy...
1309
01:15:41,836 --> 01:15:44,431
...it was the first time
the word "million" ever appeared.
1310
01:15:49,177 --> 01:15:51,840
By the end of five years,
we had produced Tommy.
1311
01:15:52,046 --> 01:15:54,345
We'd done all
the opera house tours.
1312
01:15:54,549 --> 01:15:56,484
You know, we created
a new way of touring.
1313
01:15:56,684 --> 01:15:58,949
And it was just
a very short period of time.
1314
01:15:59,154 --> 01:16:02,955
And 1969, with Tommy was
when we first had some money.
1315
01:16:03,158 --> 01:16:04,649
So we had worked all of this...
1316
01:16:04,859 --> 01:16:08,125
...without ever having
any real sort of safety money...
1317
01:16:08,329 --> 01:16:09,353
...constantly in debt.
1318
01:16:09,564 --> 01:16:12,557
And Tommy made so much money...
1319
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:14,325
...that we had
to have some money.
1320
01:16:14,536 --> 01:16:16,266
It beat us, you know.
1321
01:16:16,471 --> 01:16:18,133
We didn't care,
but it did, you know.
1322
01:16:18,339 --> 01:16:20,365
It outgrossed
even our sort of expenditure.
1323
01:16:20,575 --> 01:16:22,339
♪ So ♪
1324
01:16:22,544 --> 01:16:27,015
♪ So long ♪ ♪
1325
01:16:30,418 --> 01:16:34,048
In those days, everything was mini:
skirts, cars.
1326
01:16:34,222 --> 01:16:36,282
Even our money was mini.
1327
01:16:36,491 --> 01:16:37,652
Not today, though.
1328
01:16:37,859 --> 01:16:39,350
♪ See me ♪
1329
01:16:41,429 --> 01:16:44,831
♪ Feel me ♪
1330
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:47,533
♪ Touch me ♪
1331
01:16:48,903 --> 01:16:51,395
♪ Heal me ♪
1332
01:16:57,912 --> 01:16:59,073
♪ Listening to you ♪
1333
01:16:59,247 --> 01:17:02,081
I could see that Tommy
made Roger the singer...
1334
01:17:02,317 --> 01:17:04,377
...the frontman
that he'd always needed to be.
1335
01:17:05,220 --> 01:17:06,950
♪ I get the heat ♪
1336
01:17:07,188 --> 01:17:10,522
What he is is a great, great,
great interpreter and actor.
1337
01:17:10,692 --> 01:17:13,025
And so this gave him a role.
1338
01:17:14,229 --> 01:17:17,529
Kit had always wanted Roger to
have his hair more natural and longer...
1339
01:17:17,732 --> 01:17:21,100
...and Roger had his hair straight,
he was hanging on to the mod thing...
1340
01:17:21,336 --> 01:17:25,103
...and when Heather came into his life,
his hair suddenly became amazing, right?
1341
01:17:25,340 --> 01:17:27,332
And he grew it long,
and it was just curly.
1342
01:17:27,542 --> 01:17:29,101
And Kit always said, "Wow...
1343
01:17:29,344 --> 01:17:31,575
...Heather is really doing
an amazing job with Roger.
1344
01:17:31,746 --> 01:17:34,341
- Ha-ha-ha.
- She's got him to do the right hair."
1345
01:17:34,549 --> 01:17:38,714
And he always, thought
that you dressed Roger amazingly.
1346
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:40,946
- Yeah, we used to choose the clothes...
- Yeah.
1347
01:17:41,155 --> 01:17:42,646
Well, mostly he wore my clothes.
1348
01:17:42,890 --> 01:17:43,983
- That's what happened.
- Yeah, well, anyway...
1349
01:17:44,225 --> 01:17:47,093
...whatever you did, you were Kit's hero
because you sort of...
1350
01:17:47,295 --> 01:17:49,787
...like, perfected the whole
sort of look of Roger.
1351
01:17:53,434 --> 01:17:54,493
♪ Listening to you ♪ ♪
1352
01:17:54,669 --> 01:17:57,002
We bring up these arc lights,
you know...
1353
01:17:57,238 --> 01:17:59,173
...real film studio stuff, right?
1354
01:17:59,407 --> 01:18:01,672
We bring them up
behind the group, right?
1355
01:18:01,909 --> 01:18:03,878
Six of them,
on these opera house stages.
1356
01:18:04,078 --> 01:18:06,013
And we shine them
right through the group.
1357
01:18:06,247 --> 01:18:07,442
So the group just vanish.
1358
01:18:07,649 --> 01:18:10,278
And they're intense, those lights,
those Brutes, right?
1359
01:18:10,485 --> 01:18:14,013
And the audience stand up
and become part of this experience...
1360
01:18:14,255 --> 01:18:17,953
...and that was the first time that that
movement in a rock concert was done.
1361
01:18:18,159 --> 01:18:20,128
And it was just
such an incredible final.
1362
01:18:23,931 --> 01:18:25,695
"Listening to you, I get the music"...
1363
01:18:25,933 --> 01:18:28,801
...is not a prayer to God,
it's a prayer to the audience.
1364
01:18:30,405 --> 01:18:33,136
It's about you. It's about you.
1365
01:18:33,341 --> 01:18:36,903
I don't write songs about me.
I write songs about you.
1366
01:18:37,111 --> 01:18:39,706
That's why I'm successful, you know?
1367
01:18:39,947 --> 01:18:41,438
You think they're about me...
1368
01:18:41,649 --> 01:18:43,777
...so, you know, you can live,
in a sense...
1369
01:18:43,985 --> 01:18:45,977
...through what you think
I'm going through.
1370
01:18:46,187 --> 01:18:47,985
But actually, I'm writing about you...
1371
01:18:48,189 --> 01:18:50,852
...and that's really where...
That was what Kit and...
1372
01:18:51,059 --> 01:18:54,621
And if Chris was in the room now
he would be nodding. I know he would.
1373
01:18:54,829 --> 01:18:57,321
Because we got this
very, very early on...
1374
01:18:57,532 --> 01:18:59,865
...and we reinforced it in each other.
1375
01:19:01,235 --> 01:19:03,204
Ladies and gentlemen...
1376
01:19:04,038 --> 01:19:05,165
The Who.
1377
01:19:08,076 --> 01:19:11,240
Typical Kit and Chris thing,
when they were gonna break Tommy...
1378
01:19:11,479 --> 01:19:13,846
...they wanted it to play
at all the opera houses...
1379
01:19:14,048 --> 01:19:15,175
...all over the world...
1380
01:19:15,350 --> 01:19:18,081
...and they were gonna try and break
into the Leningrad Opera House...
1381
01:19:18,319 --> 01:19:20,686
...or the Moscow Opera House
or something like that.
1382
01:19:20,888 --> 01:19:23,585
Stamp went to Russia and tried
to persuade them to...
1383
01:19:23,825 --> 01:19:27,227
You can imagine. This was, like,
we're talking about 1969.
1384
01:19:27,562 --> 01:19:29,724
I used to go to events
at the Russian Embassy...
1385
01:19:29,964 --> 01:19:34,026
...and watch four-hour totally boring films
on Lenin and all that, you know.
1386
01:19:34,235 --> 01:19:38,468
As I was a bit of an expert on Lenin,
I could hold my own. But it was awful.
1387
01:19:38,673 --> 01:19:41,165
We wanted to get
Moscow Opera House...
1388
01:19:41,376 --> 01:19:43,777
...and we wanted to get
the Metropolitan Opera House.
1389
01:19:44,011 --> 01:19:46,776
And we wanted to sort of
have the headline:
1390
01:19:47,014 --> 01:19:50,610
"Rock Breaks the Iron Curtain,"
you know, when we flew from Moscow.
1391
01:19:50,852 --> 01:19:53,014
They wouldn't give us
their fucking opera house.
1392
01:19:53,221 --> 01:19:56,589
They offered us St. Petersburg,
but it was years down the road, you know.
1393
01:19:56,791 --> 01:19:59,522
And in rock 'n' roll terms,
that was like a century, right?
1394
01:19:59,727 --> 01:20:00,922
And who are The Who?
1395
01:20:01,129 --> 01:20:03,928
Well, The Who are The Who,
that's who they are.
1396
01:20:04,132 --> 01:20:06,567
A rock group,
veterans of Woodstock...
1397
01:20:06,768 --> 01:20:09,567
...and now the authors
and performers in a rock-opera.
1398
01:20:09,771 --> 01:20:12,798
- You could feel the vibrations.
- Man, we freaked it all out.
1399
01:20:13,040 --> 01:20:14,633
- It's beautiful.
- It's unreal.
1400
01:20:14,876 --> 01:20:17,812
Without the libretto, it was more difficult
than Italian opera.
1401
01:20:18,212 --> 01:20:20,306
The seats are comfortable,
aren't they?
1402
01:20:20,548 --> 01:20:22,574
Keith Moon loved the melodrama...
1403
01:20:22,784 --> 01:20:25,652
...and the pomposity of,
"Shut up, it's a fucking opera!"
1404
01:20:25,887 --> 01:20:27,048
You know?
1405
01:20:28,456 --> 01:20:30,516
John Entwistle got to play
the French horn...
1406
01:20:30,725 --> 01:20:33,456
...and I could see
that it maybe might give Kit...
1407
01:20:33,661 --> 01:20:35,527
...his big movie
that he'd always wanted.
1408
01:20:35,696 --> 01:20:37,221
The relationship that I had with Kit...
1409
01:20:37,398 --> 01:20:39,390
...was about the fact that he...
1410
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:42,263
...right from the very, very beginning...
1411
01:20:42,537 --> 01:20:45,302
...was quite clearly
a frustrated composer.
1412
01:20:46,073 --> 01:20:47,268
So he saw in me...
1413
01:20:47,475 --> 01:20:52,436
...a chance to expound
some of his own frustrated ideas.
1414
01:20:52,647 --> 01:20:54,411
He encouraged the preposterous.
1415
01:20:54,615 --> 01:20:56,550
The more preposterous, the better.
1416
01:20:56,751 --> 01:20:58,686
The more adventurous,
the more dangerous...
1417
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:00,821
...the more exotic, the more absurd.
1418
01:21:01,055 --> 01:21:03,354
Tommy was a mess.
It was typical Townshend thing.
1419
01:21:03,591 --> 01:21:06,425
He'd have a song here, something there,
a bit of music there, something here...
1420
01:21:06,627 --> 01:21:08,789
...some abandoned project there,
a laundry list there.
1421
01:21:08,996 --> 01:21:11,693
And he put it all together
and try and get some sort of...
1422
01:21:11,933 --> 01:21:13,196
...great concept out of it.
1423
01:21:13,434 --> 01:21:16,632
But Kit, because of his, I suppose...
1424
01:21:16,838 --> 01:21:19,364
...scriptwriting experience
on films and stuff...
1425
01:21:19,607 --> 01:21:20,870
...put it into some order...
1426
01:21:21,108 --> 01:21:23,942
...because he was writing the script
as Tommy was recorded.
1427
01:21:24,145 --> 01:21:28,310
Pete may have always known
the story inside, right?
1428
01:21:28,516 --> 01:21:30,951
We know it was about
this deaf, dumb and blind boy...
1429
01:21:31,152 --> 01:21:32,176
...it's about vibes.
1430
01:21:32,386 --> 01:21:34,651
I mean, the original idea
is deaf, dumb and blind boy.
1431
01:21:34,822 --> 01:21:40,193
Um, he... Vibes, this was,
like, '68, right? Acid was big.
1432
01:21:40,394 --> 01:21:42,625
It was all about vibes,
all about connection.
1433
01:21:42,830 --> 01:21:45,891
The infinity of the universe...
1434
01:21:46,133 --> 01:21:49,865
...of eternity, of all the eternal
aspects of the universe...
1435
01:21:50,104 --> 01:21:52,471
...aware of the invalidity...
1436
01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:55,838
...of what we know as reality.
1437
01:21:56,477 --> 01:21:59,037
Reality with a small R.
1438
01:21:59,247 --> 01:22:01,546
Kit found it very, very difficult...
1439
01:22:01,749 --> 01:22:06,016
...when I started to study
spiritual matters.
1440
01:22:06,220 --> 01:22:11,124
And, particularly,
the work of Inayat Khan...
1441
01:22:11,325 --> 01:22:14,489
...the Sufi Master
who was a master musician.
1442
01:22:14,729 --> 01:22:18,928
Kit, you know, was just...
He just wanted it to stop.
1443
01:22:19,767 --> 01:22:22,737
Yeah, but that's like
fucking hippie-dippy, right?
1444
01:22:22,937 --> 01:22:25,406
Which it was.
Come on, I mean, like, vibes, you know?
1445
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:29,338
Deaf, dumb and blind, that bit's good.
But how did he get deaf, dumb and blind?
1446
01:22:29,544 --> 01:22:32,514
Tommy began
as a spiritual allegory...
1447
01:22:32,713 --> 01:22:34,841
...and he made it
a story of postwar life.
1448
01:22:35,049 --> 01:22:37,883
So we had the lover come home
with the husband from the war...
1449
01:22:38,085 --> 01:22:41,385
...kill the lover, the kid sees it,
the lover and mother shake the kid.
1450
01:22:41,589 --> 01:22:43,751
"You didn't hear it."
And traumatize him, right?
1451
01:22:43,958 --> 01:22:46,393
So he goes into trauma,
becomes deaf, dumb and blind.
1452
01:22:46,594 --> 01:22:47,789
Then he tries some acid...
1453
01:22:48,029 --> 01:22:49,861
...the Acid Queen, to bring him back...
1454
01:22:50,064 --> 01:22:51,555
...and he's growing up,
and never gets back.
1455
01:22:51,766 --> 01:22:54,031
Then he has a breakup,
and he gets enlightened...
1456
01:22:54,235 --> 01:22:57,672
...he has a sort of spiritual experience
and becomes an enlightened being.
1457
01:22:57,872 --> 01:23:00,239
When Pete was writing the songs...
1458
01:23:00,441 --> 01:23:03,434
...and it was his original idea...
1459
01:23:03,678 --> 01:23:06,079
...um, within the studio context...
1460
01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:08,909
...it wasn't clear
where it was going...
1461
01:23:09,116 --> 01:23:10,311
...where it was gonna end.
1462
01:23:10,551 --> 01:23:14,181
I mean, the songs, the bad stuff,
the shitty stuff...
1463
01:23:14,388 --> 01:23:17,415
...you know, Uncle Ernie,
who's a fucking pedophile, right?
1464
01:23:17,625 --> 01:23:19,753
And Cousin Kevin who's a bully, right?
1465
01:23:19,961 --> 01:23:22,294
You know, the real stuff
that happens in life.
1466
01:23:22,496 --> 01:23:24,556
You know, John Entwistle
wrote those songs.
1467
01:23:24,765 --> 01:23:30,397
He was more of a sort of, you know,
nasty, cynical, grounded type of being.
1468
01:23:30,605 --> 01:23:32,437
Do you know what I mean?
That he could write that horrible shit...
1469
01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:34,506
...because John was a very dark guy.
1470
01:23:34,742 --> 01:23:36,210
What was it that you
went to see this doctor for?
1471
01:23:36,410 --> 01:23:38,436
- I had a poisoned finger.
- A poisoned finger.
1472
01:23:38,713 --> 01:23:40,011
- How did you get it?
- It was weeping.
1473
01:23:40,247 --> 01:23:41,943
When we asked him,
there was a big grin on his face.
1474
01:23:42,149 --> 01:23:44,209
"I'll write them, sure."
1475
01:23:44,418 --> 01:23:48,617
Kit wrote a screenplay...
1476
01:23:48,823 --> 01:23:51,725
...only as a guideline...
1477
01:23:51,926 --> 01:23:53,622
...for the guys in the studio.
1478
01:23:54,228 --> 01:23:55,856
Remember,
we didn't have any money...
1479
01:23:56,097 --> 01:23:57,929
...we were in a sort of cheap studio...
1480
01:23:58,132 --> 01:24:00,829
...and come Thursday we would pack up,
put it in the van...
1481
01:24:01,035 --> 01:24:03,300
...because the group
had to go out and perform...
1482
01:24:03,504 --> 01:24:05,370
...to get the money.
1483
01:24:05,640 --> 01:24:07,871
They couldn't take time off
to actually record.
1484
01:24:08,743 --> 01:24:12,111
And Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights
were the big earners, right?
1485
01:24:12,313 --> 01:24:14,839
Then they would come back in.
So it was always lost all over the place.
1486
01:24:15,049 --> 01:24:17,382
Sometimes they would go out
and play some songs they recorded...
1487
01:24:17,652 --> 01:24:19,814
...then come back,
they want to re-record them.
1488
01:24:20,021 --> 01:24:24,015
So Kit wrote this screenplay
as a way to give it structure.
1489
01:24:24,258 --> 01:24:25,692
And he showed it to Pete.
1490
01:24:26,060 --> 01:24:29,189
And he'd noted where there should be
some songs and stuff like that.
1491
01:24:29,397 --> 01:24:32,959
Now, whether that fell in line
with Pete's overall vision, I don't know.
1492
01:24:33,167 --> 01:24:36,194
And, certainly,
let me put it this way:
1493
01:24:36,404 --> 01:24:40,705
Pete doesn't really give credit
for the screenplay to Kit.
1494
01:24:43,144 --> 01:24:45,306
So, it's an un... It's a mystery.
1495
01:24:45,513 --> 01:24:47,675
He started to bring in the idea...
1496
01:24:47,882 --> 01:24:50,044
...that there was
a postwar element in there.
1497
01:24:50,284 --> 01:24:53,686
But, you know, I already had songs
like "Captain Walker Didn't Come Home."
1498
01:24:53,888 --> 01:24:55,686
I already had songs about, you know...
1499
01:24:55,890 --> 01:25:00,089
...child abuse and brutality
and bullying and, you know...
1500
01:25:00,327 --> 01:25:03,297
So, you know, it was all there,
you know, it's my story.
1501
01:25:03,497 --> 01:25:08,197
And he came up with a few things
that were really fundamentally important:
1502
01:25:08,402 --> 01:25:11,167
The idea of doing an overture,
which I did at the end...
1503
01:25:11,372 --> 01:25:14,900
...and also the idea
of repeating the refrain at the end...
1504
01:25:15,076 --> 01:25:17,045
...the "Listening To You"
prayer at the end...
1505
01:25:17,244 --> 01:25:20,112
...putting that at the end.
I think that's some ideas he had...
1506
01:25:20,347 --> 01:25:22,248
...but we were all
rather kind of groping.
1507
01:25:22,450 --> 01:25:27,354
The film was gonna be produced
and directed by Lambert/Stamp.
1508
01:25:27,555 --> 01:25:29,251
I mean, no one else, right?
1509
01:25:29,457 --> 01:25:32,450
So we're gonna make this film,
and we're gonna make it our way.
1510
01:25:32,693 --> 01:25:34,594
We're gonna cast it our way...
1511
01:25:34,829 --> 01:25:38,698
...and we're gonna sort of, like, do it,
and it's gonna be another level.
1512
01:25:38,899 --> 01:25:44,702
And suddenly, Pete Townshend
balks at this idea.
1513
01:25:44,905 --> 01:25:49,138
The first sort of "pfft" in the camp.
1514
01:25:49,376 --> 01:25:50,571
Right? The first breakup.
1515
01:25:50,778 --> 01:25:53,577
You know, just on an emotional
level, you know...
1516
01:25:53,781 --> 01:25:58,116
...Kit and I weren't even gonna attempt
to make the movie without Pete.
1517
01:25:58,352 --> 01:26:01,550
What had happened
was that they'd come at me with a script...
1518
01:26:01,756 --> 01:26:04,487
...with a treatment,
and I wouldn't look at it.
1519
01:26:04,725 --> 01:26:07,627
I'm not... You know,
I'm not gonna allow a film to be made.
1520
01:26:07,862 --> 01:26:11,299
I'm not gonna allow you to make a film.
Because I didn't want to lose them.
1521
01:26:11,866 --> 01:26:13,095
I felt already that they were going...
1522
01:26:13,300 --> 01:26:16,293
...I thought they were going to
Hollywood, so I wouldn't look at it.
1523
01:26:16,504 --> 01:26:19,440
And what was bad about it
was the way I'd handled it.
1524
01:26:20,407 --> 01:26:22,808
And what I see now
is Pete was afraid, now...
1525
01:26:23,010 --> 01:26:25,502
...that if Lambert and Stamp
do the film...
1526
01:26:25,746 --> 01:26:27,180
...then Lambert and Stamp...
1527
01:26:27,414 --> 01:26:30,578
...being the producer-managers
of The Who is sort of over.
1528
01:26:30,785 --> 01:26:33,448
We have also...
We've completed our cycle...
1529
01:26:33,654 --> 01:26:36,988
...we've come back to make...
And we make our film, and we leave.
1530
01:26:37,191 --> 01:26:41,295
We become the bad parents
who are abandoning them, right?
1531
01:26:41,296 --> 01:26:45,756
What happened was,
is that Kit appropriated it...
1532
01:26:45,966 --> 01:26:48,697
...the piece, as an opportunity
to make a movie.
1533
01:26:48,936 --> 01:26:53,897
He took the story,
he wrote a script around it...
1534
01:26:54,108 --> 01:26:57,909
...which was loosely based on
the story that I'd written.
1535
01:26:58,345 --> 01:26:59,643
Um...
1536
01:26:59,847 --> 01:27:02,316
And...
1537
01:27:03,984 --> 01:27:07,045
Registered it as a grand right.
1538
01:27:07,288 --> 01:27:11,055
And took it to Universal...
1539
01:27:11,292 --> 01:27:14,319
...and tried to persuade them
to make a movie and...
1540
01:27:14,528 --> 01:27:17,293
Meanwhile, I was on to the next thing,
you know, so...
1541
01:27:17,631 --> 01:27:20,931
And, Tommy,
he never got to make Tommy...
1542
01:27:21,135 --> 01:27:25,800
...but felt that he should do,
you know, and...
1543
01:27:26,006 --> 01:27:27,668
Um...
1544
01:27:28,075 --> 01:27:30,544
And we never really worked together
again after that.
1545
01:27:35,516 --> 01:27:39,715
In Kit's myth, he'd been
conceived in Venice, if you like.
1546
01:27:40,254 --> 01:27:43,224
His father and mother
were on their honeymoon...
1547
01:27:43,457 --> 01:27:46,450
...or Constant was playing
some sort of orchestra or something.
1548
01:27:46,660 --> 01:27:49,027
And Kit had this thing about Venice...
1549
01:27:49,230 --> 01:27:51,461
...that it was his...
There was some other draw.
1550
01:27:51,665 --> 01:27:58,663
In 1971, um, Kit rented a floor
of a palazzo on the Grand Canal...
1551
01:27:58,873 --> 01:28:01,866
...and it was quite, quite magical.
1552
01:28:02,343 --> 01:28:04,335
He obviously
developed a taste for Venice...
1553
01:28:04,545 --> 01:28:07,709
...because very soon
he bought his own palazzo...
1554
01:28:07,915 --> 01:28:09,213
...the Palazzo Dario.
1555
01:28:09,416 --> 01:28:13,478
Kit bought it from
some Italian nobleman.
1556
01:28:13,687 --> 01:28:16,521
Or rather the estate
of some Italian nobleman...
1557
01:28:16,724 --> 01:28:19,751
...who had been murdered
by his Yugoslav boyfriend...
1558
01:28:19,994 --> 01:28:22,725
...I think,
about six or seven months before.
1559
01:28:22,930 --> 01:28:27,595
And Jane and I found ourselves
sleeping in the murder bedroom.
1560
01:28:28,068 --> 01:28:32,506
And one morning, I was scrambling about
under the bed for my slippers...
1561
01:28:32,706 --> 01:28:36,074
...and I felt something sort of
slightly soft and plastic.
1562
01:28:36,277 --> 01:28:42,547
And I touched it, and I realized
that it was a gout of blood.
1563
01:28:42,750 --> 01:28:46,016
By that time, Kit was becoming
quite well known.
1564
01:28:46,220 --> 01:28:49,588
He was known as "Il Barone,"
"Il Barone Lambert."
1565
01:28:49,790 --> 01:28:53,158
And so I think when he started
to make good money...
1566
01:28:53,394 --> 01:28:55,022
...I think he rather anticipated...
1567
01:28:55,229 --> 01:28:58,757
...the receiving of money
by spending it early...
1568
01:28:58,966 --> 01:29:01,265
...but eventually
he did make a lot of money.
1569
01:29:01,468 --> 01:29:04,131
And so everyone had money,
for the first time.
1570
01:29:04,338 --> 01:29:07,740
Now, that was sort of needed,
nice for everyone to have some security.
1571
01:29:07,942 --> 01:29:10,241
And so when the Tommy thing
didn't continue...
1572
01:29:10,444 --> 01:29:12,970
...straight on into a film,
there was this sort of gap.
1573
01:29:13,180 --> 01:29:15,945
You know, the actual life
that came about was normal life...
1574
01:29:16,150 --> 01:29:17,948
...and we all wanted some normal life.
1575
01:29:18,152 --> 01:29:20,053
People had started
to buy houses...
1576
01:29:20,254 --> 01:29:21,950
...and John had gotten married.
1577
01:29:22,156 --> 01:29:24,648
He'd married his schoolgirl
sweetheart, and, um...
1578
01:29:24,858 --> 01:29:27,418
They've also started
to make babies...
1579
01:29:27,628 --> 01:29:29,324
...you know, have girlfriends.
1580
01:29:29,563 --> 01:29:34,797
Kit found me having
a conventional little family...
1581
01:29:35,002 --> 01:29:38,166
...that was gonna lead to me having
children and a house and stuff...
1582
01:29:38,372 --> 01:29:39,965
...he found it very bourgeois.
1583
01:29:40,207 --> 01:29:42,676
And was quite antagonistic.
1584
01:29:43,143 --> 01:29:47,137
They're not quite
as, dangerously out of control...
1585
01:29:47,348 --> 01:29:48,680
...right, as Kit and I.
1586
01:29:48,882 --> 01:29:51,078
I mean, you know,
we were gonna go to the edge.
1587
01:30:02,229 --> 01:30:05,825
Kit went to New York
and started to produce records there...
1588
01:30:06,033 --> 01:30:07,228
...and had some success.
1589
01:30:07,468 --> 01:30:12,304
The life of New York then was...
You know, matched Kit's own decadence.
1590
01:30:12,506 --> 01:30:14,668
There was a lot of coke,
a lot of drugs...
1591
01:30:14,875 --> 01:30:16,537
...a lot of, like, action, whatever.
1592
01:30:16,744 --> 01:30:21,478
I cried when Kit called me
and invited me to New York to work...
1593
01:30:21,682 --> 01:30:25,141
...because I'd kind of really lost heart
in the Lifehouse project.
1594
01:30:25,652 --> 01:30:27,985
Battering away, battering away,
battering away...
1595
01:30:28,188 --> 01:30:32,717
...trying to get people to get inside what
it was that I was trying to get across.
1596
01:30:33,160 --> 01:30:34,651
I knew I had this great music...
1597
01:30:34,862 --> 01:30:38,264
...but just not the craft and skills
to deliver a story that made sense...
1598
01:30:38,499 --> 01:30:40,764
...and not any idea
about how it would work...
1599
01:30:41,001 --> 01:30:43,436
...that was a hopeful return
to a project...
1600
01:30:43,670 --> 01:30:46,071
...if not a frontline production process...
1601
01:30:46,273 --> 01:30:50,074
...certainly one in which he would have
some kind of mentoring figure in it...
1602
01:30:50,277 --> 01:30:52,542
- That's right, that's right.
- ...as he had on Tommy.
1603
01:30:53,013 --> 01:30:56,279
The next rift type of thing
came about with...
1604
01:30:56,517 --> 01:30:59,009
...what became
the Who's Next album.
1605
01:30:59,219 --> 01:31:02,678
The Who's Next album
was a conceptual project...
1606
01:31:02,890 --> 01:31:05,382
...a rock opera called Lifehouse.
1607
01:31:05,592 --> 01:31:10,053
And Kit didn't actually think
the piece was right...
1608
01:31:10,264 --> 01:31:14,224
...because he thought the idea,
which was a mystical idea...
1609
01:31:14,435 --> 01:31:16,097
...was too mystical.
1610
01:31:16,303 --> 01:31:20,934
And also, I think, unconsciously Kit was,
like, wounded in a sense of saying:
1611
01:31:21,175 --> 01:31:23,406
"Why should I work with Pete
on Lifehouse?
1612
01:31:23,610 --> 01:31:25,943
So you can fuck me
when I wanna make a film of it?"
1613
01:31:26,180 --> 01:31:29,173
I don't know. That's purely come
to my head for the first time.
1614
01:31:29,383 --> 01:31:32,581
Kit did help. Um...
1615
01:31:34,221 --> 01:31:38,420
He brought us to New York, where he
was based, working with Patti LaBelle.
1616
01:31:38,625 --> 01:31:42,118
And he thought we should invite all
the great New York musicians to help.
1617
01:31:42,329 --> 01:31:45,993
Just... Not actually to do finished
recordings. That wasn't Kit's idea.
1618
01:31:46,233 --> 01:31:48,793
The idea of Kit's was to, sort of,
shift the focus.
1619
01:31:49,002 --> 01:31:55,238
Um, Pete had had issues with Kit
on production, um...
1620
01:31:55,609 --> 01:31:59,569
...of Who's Next, which was kind of
all a bit of a mystery...
1621
01:31:59,780 --> 01:32:02,477
...to the rest of the band,
because something happened...
1622
01:32:02,716 --> 01:32:04,844
...between Pete and Kit,
and we don't know what.
1623
01:32:05,085 --> 01:32:07,486
We went to... We did
some recording of Who's Next...
1624
01:32:07,721 --> 01:32:10,520
...in New York,
which sounded great to me.
1625
01:32:10,757 --> 01:32:12,248
Um...
1626
01:32:13,627 --> 01:32:16,324
Came back to England,
and the next thing we know...
1627
01:32:16,530 --> 01:32:17,964
...we're gonna re-record it.
1628
01:32:18,165 --> 01:32:21,431
And these decisions were all
made by Pete, who, you know...
1629
01:32:21,635 --> 01:32:23,831
...now was gaining
more and more control.
1630
01:32:28,642 --> 01:32:31,806
Kit was making
a new life in New York.
1631
01:32:32,012 --> 01:32:36,677
There was a sort of a sense
of safety for Kit in that world.
1632
01:32:36,884 --> 01:32:41,822
We didn't see what Kit was building
for himself there, and how carefully...
1633
01:32:42,022 --> 01:32:45,288
...he was structuring it, and how it was
very much from his old world.
1634
01:32:45,492 --> 01:32:47,961
It became clear that Kit
was in bad shape...
1635
01:32:48,162 --> 01:32:51,564
...but the most important thing
was that Keith was...
1636
01:32:51,798 --> 01:32:54,324
It wasn't right for Keith to be
working in New York.
1637
01:32:54,535 --> 01:32:57,266
He was using narcotics,
and we were very worried about him.
1638
01:32:57,471 --> 01:33:01,067
So we had him and Kit
at the same time...
1639
01:33:01,308 --> 01:33:04,506
...and it was almost like, you know,
who do we keep an eye on?
1640
01:33:04,711 --> 01:33:06,407
At the end, on Quadrophenia...
1641
01:33:06,647 --> 01:33:09,014
...when we got to the studio,
Kit did that thing...
1642
01:33:09,216 --> 01:33:11,776
...of showing up about
two or three hours late.
1643
01:33:11,985 --> 01:33:17,356
Did really lose my temper with him
one night, because he was so disruptive.
1644
01:33:17,558 --> 01:33:19,220
What happened?
1645
01:33:19,426 --> 01:33:23,522
I just... You know,
just kind of went for him and...
1646
01:33:23,730 --> 01:33:26,427
I didn't do anything, I didn't hit him.
I really wanted to.
1647
01:33:26,667 --> 01:33:28,659
I wanted to throw him down the stairs.
1648
01:33:28,869 --> 01:33:32,169
And he started to cry, and he was...
1649
01:33:32,372 --> 01:33:34,898
He was obviously in very bad shape.
1650
01:33:35,108 --> 01:33:37,009
You know, he suddenly broke down.
1651
01:33:37,211 --> 01:33:39,806
I was saying to him,
"You let me down, you let me down."
1652
01:33:40,013 --> 01:33:44,109
"This is a very hard project.
I can't do it on my own. It's too hard.
1653
01:33:44,351 --> 01:33:46,513
There's so much to do."
I'd just come out of...
1654
01:33:46,720 --> 01:33:50,714
I was in the middle of, actually...
Dealing with two other quite big things.
1655
01:33:50,924 --> 01:33:54,622
One was... I'd got involved with,
Eric Clapton...
1656
01:33:54,861 --> 01:33:58,559
...and his, you know, recovery
from the grave of the day.
1657
01:33:58,765 --> 01:34:02,224
But also we were preparing
the Tommy film.
1658
01:34:02,436 --> 01:34:06,771
So I was really quite hard-pressed
and really wanted...
1659
01:34:06,974 --> 01:34:08,704
Just needed a bit of help with...
1660
01:34:08,909 --> 01:34:12,607
Because it was kind of done,
but it needed a bit of...
1661
01:34:12,846 --> 01:34:14,974
It needed Kit, really.
1662
01:34:15,215 --> 01:34:16,911
And, um...
1663
01:34:17,117 --> 01:34:21,578
Anyway, it would have been a different
ball of string if he'd have been around.
1664
01:34:21,788 --> 01:34:24,656
But that was the last attempt
that he had of...
1665
01:34:24,891 --> 01:34:27,760
At being, you know, part of things.
1666
01:34:27,761 --> 01:34:30,856
I went to collect Kit
from a nursing home.
1667
01:34:31,064 --> 01:34:35,092
I think he was drying out from alcohol. I
went to collect him from a nursing home...
1668
01:34:35,302 --> 01:34:38,397
...I think in Redding,
to drive him to stay with us.
1669
01:34:38,605 --> 01:34:42,007
And he insisted on saying:
1670
01:34:42,242 --> 01:34:44,234
"I want to stop somewhere
on the way."
1671
01:34:44,444 --> 01:34:46,504
And he stopped off
at a wine merchant's.
1672
01:34:46,747 --> 01:34:49,307
And although he was not meant
to be drinking himself...
1673
01:34:49,516 --> 01:34:52,782
...he brought us three bottles
of some of the most wonderful claret...
1674
01:34:52,986 --> 01:34:55,080
...I've ever drunk in my life.
1675
01:34:56,089 --> 01:35:01,118
Kit's idea of Venice... He bought
the palazzo. He would start to write there.
1676
01:35:01,328 --> 01:35:05,424
This was a bit of a idealistic dream,
but he... That was his idea.
1677
01:35:05,632 --> 01:35:10,297
Track was gonna transship
vinyl to Russia and to India...
1678
01:35:10,504 --> 01:35:12,803
...you know,
which you couldn't do business.
1679
01:35:13,006 --> 01:35:14,941
Records weren't allowed to be sold.
1680
01:35:15,142 --> 01:35:19,136
So we would transship them
for goods through Venice, right?
1681
01:35:19,346 --> 01:35:22,111
Which was just
a very solid business idea.
1682
01:35:22,316 --> 01:35:24,217
It was before the Wall came down...
1683
01:35:24,451 --> 01:35:29,185
...and there was this whole market
of rock 'n' roll that wanted it madly.
1684
01:35:29,423 --> 01:35:32,154
And we would give it to them
and take all the money.
1685
01:35:32,359 --> 01:35:34,487
But we would then leave it in Venice.
1686
01:35:34,695 --> 01:35:38,063
And Kit's idea was to create all
the money for Venice In Peril.
1687
01:35:38,298 --> 01:35:40,563
That's what Kit wanted.
To save Venice, because...
1688
01:35:40,801 --> 01:35:44,238
...he considered it an incredible
artistic creative center.
1689
01:35:44,471 --> 01:35:49,466
So his idea was to, sort of, do things
that were socially, sort of, giving.
1690
01:35:51,445 --> 01:35:53,641
I'd offered all the four members of
The Who...
1691
01:35:53,847 --> 01:35:57,807
...ten percent each of Track Records.
1692
01:35:58,018 --> 01:36:01,318
The idea was that Track Records
would become, like, the bigger company.
1693
01:36:01,521 --> 01:36:06,255
They would be partners in it,
and that they would come into the fold.
1694
01:36:06,493 --> 01:36:12,524
Our roles as managers and, sort of,
day-to-day, sort of, studio producers...
1695
01:36:12,733 --> 01:36:14,759
...would fade into something else...
1696
01:36:15,001 --> 01:36:18,199
...as they become bigger,
to be part of this thing.
1697
01:36:18,405 --> 01:36:20,067
And they refused this.
1698
01:36:20,273 --> 01:36:22,469
It was a gift to say to these guys:
1699
01:36:22,676 --> 01:36:25,840
"We are tired of this job and
we're not so together anymore."
1700
01:36:26,046 --> 01:36:29,778
You know, "Come in and
help us in a different way."
1701
01:36:30,016 --> 01:36:34,078
And, you know, what we weren't good at
was we weren't good at the psychology.
1702
01:36:34,287 --> 01:36:36,688
Because, you know,
we were saying to them:
1703
01:36:36,890 --> 01:36:39,883
"We don't want to be your managers
anymore, come in to Track."
1704
01:36:40,093 --> 01:36:42,255
And they took it badly.
1705
01:36:42,696 --> 01:36:44,927
I've had conversation with Roger
subsequently...
1706
01:36:45,132 --> 01:36:47,727
...and, um, I mean,
he's just very emotional.
1707
01:36:47,934 --> 01:36:51,735
I mean, he'd created the band,
more or less. He's the leader of the band.
1708
01:36:51,938 --> 01:36:55,397
He'd had a terrible time because that was
taken away from him, you know?
1709
01:36:55,609 --> 01:36:57,009
The leadership, per se.
1710
01:36:57,210 --> 01:37:00,078
And he was really concerned...
1711
01:37:00,280 --> 01:37:04,911
...that, like, the way that Kit
and I were, in our drug using...
1712
01:37:05,118 --> 01:37:10,386
...or whatever it was,
that a lot of damage would be done.
1713
01:37:10,590 --> 01:37:13,583
The early '70s
coincided with two things.
1714
01:37:13,794 --> 01:37:19,426
You know, one was The Who becoming
a road war machine, and the other...
1715
01:37:19,633 --> 01:37:22,068
...with Kit Lambert becoming
a heroin addict.
1716
01:37:22,269 --> 01:37:28,573
In 1973, he explained that he was
in a bad way, and he admitted...
1717
01:37:28,775 --> 01:37:32,234
...he was taking a lot of drugs,
and he wanted...
1718
01:37:32,446 --> 01:37:36,645
He asked me if I would
represent his interests.
1719
01:37:36,850 --> 01:37:40,184
And I said, "Look, I really am not
cut out for this kind of thing."
1720
01:37:40,620 --> 01:37:45,251
And I helped Bill Curbishley
organize a European tour...
1721
01:37:45,459 --> 01:37:49,294
...sometime in sixty...
In '74, I think it was.
1722
01:37:49,496 --> 01:37:51,328
I have to say I was not cut out for it.
1723
01:37:51,498 --> 01:37:54,798
Um, and it was difficult to talk
to Kit about it at that time...
1724
01:37:55,001 --> 01:37:58,301
...because if I tried to ask him questions,
"Now, what do you think?
1725
01:37:58,505 --> 01:38:02,442
How should we... What sort of
percentage should we ask for The Who?"
1726
01:38:02,642 --> 01:38:05,669
He didn't want to talk about that.
He wanted to talk about something else.
1727
01:38:05,879 --> 01:38:08,815
He didn't seem to want
to talk about business at all.
1728
01:38:09,783 --> 01:38:16,383
In 19... Was it '74? I had to instigate...
1729
01:38:16,623 --> 01:38:20,219
...leaving them as managers,
because it was so out of control.
1730
01:38:20,861 --> 01:38:22,955
Not, um...
1731
01:38:24,464 --> 01:38:26,729
Not an easy decision.
1732
01:38:26,967 --> 01:38:30,096
The Who have become
a multimillion-pound corporation.
1733
01:38:30,303 --> 01:38:33,296
Their business empire is based
here at Shepperton Studios...
1734
01:38:33,507 --> 01:38:37,535
...where their trucking, laser and sound
equipment businesses are housed.
1735
01:38:37,744 --> 01:38:41,875
During the last few years, The Who's
other interests have diversified so much...
1736
01:38:42,115 --> 01:38:46,553
...that people have wondered whether
they're musicians or businessmen.
1737
01:38:50,023 --> 01:38:52,492
Director Ken Russell
and producer Robert Stigwood...
1738
01:38:52,692 --> 01:38:54,684
...have made a film of Tommy.
1739
01:38:55,128 --> 01:38:58,860
Kit saw my betrayal
as Tommy the film.
1740
01:38:59,065 --> 01:39:02,729
The unspoken deal was that him and...
You know, Lambert and Stamp...
1741
01:39:02,936 --> 01:39:06,498
...would make the rock film.
And when I went with Stigwood...
1742
01:39:06,706 --> 01:39:09,733
And I went with him because
it was still difficult at that stage.
1743
01:39:09,943 --> 01:39:11,741
Elton John, Eric Clapton...
1744
01:39:11,945 --> 01:39:15,848
So Stigwood equals Ken Russell
equaled Columbia, and that's basically it.
1745
01:39:16,049 --> 01:39:19,850
And then Stigwood said to me, um,
you know, "But I can't have Kit around."
1746
01:39:20,053 --> 01:39:21,681
Your senses will never be the same.
1747
01:39:21,888 --> 01:39:24,016
And when Kit was going
slightly mad, slightly off the wall...
1748
01:39:24,224 --> 01:39:27,717
...more eccentric than normal,
he got very frightened of Kit.
1749
01:39:29,162 --> 01:39:33,759
Kit felt sort of rejected by me.
1750
01:39:33,967 --> 01:39:35,799
He felt rejected by Pete.
1751
01:39:36,169 --> 01:39:37,865
He didn't feel rejected by Keith.
1752
01:39:38,071 --> 01:39:41,906
Keith made it very clear
that he was there for him, you know?
1753
01:39:42,108 --> 01:39:48,070
But he... But the two... The two poles
in his life were Pete and me. Ahem.
1754
01:39:48,281 --> 01:39:52,218
If I tried to deal with him, he would be
firing pieces of handwritten paper at me...
1755
01:39:52,419 --> 01:39:55,719
...which were the writs that he was
gonna smack on the film.
1756
01:39:55,922 --> 01:39:57,083
He somehow let go.
1757
01:39:57,290 --> 01:39:59,987
This kind of classic addiction,
alcoholic stuff.
1758
01:40:00,226 --> 01:40:04,322
Unable to hang on to reality,
but just falling into...
1759
01:40:04,564 --> 01:40:07,261
...you know, deep, deep, deep anger
and resentment.
1760
01:40:07,467 --> 01:40:11,063
You know, deeply felt resentment,
which eats and eats and eats away...
1761
01:40:11,271 --> 01:40:15,641
...and in the end, you know,
you're the one that gets it.
1762
01:40:16,076 --> 01:40:17,203
It's a drag.
1763
01:40:17,410 --> 01:40:19,743
I'm... I'm still functioning.
1764
01:40:19,946 --> 01:40:22,643
I'm the one who's functioning.
Kit isn't functioning.
1765
01:40:22,849 --> 01:40:26,945
His life was getting incredibly
complicated. He'd lost his house...
1766
01:40:27,420 --> 01:40:30,219
Um, being a ward of the court,
he didn't have...
1767
01:40:30,423 --> 01:40:33,291
...the freedom to access his money
and all those things, right?
1768
01:40:33,493 --> 01:40:36,486
Well, his view of me
changed around...
1769
01:40:36,663 --> 01:40:39,599
Um, he was getting slightly paranoid.
1770
01:40:39,799 --> 01:40:43,292
He didn't think he was being confided in
and respected in the way...
1771
01:40:43,503 --> 01:40:46,029
...he thought he should be
by The Who, whatever, right?
1772
01:40:46,272 --> 01:40:50,471
He's paranoid. Paranoid is a paranoia.
It's a type of mental illness, right?
1773
01:40:50,677 --> 01:40:54,978
It's the same as, like, being a
mentally-ill alcoholic or an addict, right?
1774
01:40:55,181 --> 01:40:59,185
You're not quite in touch with reality,
per se.
1775
01:40:59,252 --> 01:41:03,053
And at the end of that,
Roger and I had to kind of...
1776
01:41:03,289 --> 01:41:06,555
...just face the fact that it was
kind of up to us really.
1777
01:41:06,793 --> 01:41:10,628
You know, and that was hard,
that was a hard lesson...
1778
01:41:10,830 --> 01:41:14,289
...because we'd never really
established a proper, sort of, working...
1779
01:41:14,501 --> 01:41:16,163
You know, a way of working together.
1780
01:41:16,369 --> 01:41:21,069
Kit had been the intermediary, you know?
He was who we worked for. Through.
1781
01:41:21,307 --> 01:41:24,505
You know, we struggled and I don't think
we ever really found a way...
1782
01:41:24,711 --> 01:41:28,648
...of working together that was as good
as having him there.
1783
01:41:36,856 --> 01:41:39,690
♪ I went to Dallas back in '82 ♪♪
1784
01:41:39,893 --> 01:41:41,020
Keith was in California.
1785
01:41:41,227 --> 01:41:43,219
I stayed with him in California,
he was going through a bad time.
1786
01:41:43,430 --> 01:41:47,231
I stayed in his house, was there for him.
I tried to get his record together.
1787
01:41:47,434 --> 01:41:49,926
I tried to like clean him up
as best as I could, right?
1788
01:41:50,170 --> 01:41:52,901
Whatever it was.
I was just there as his friend, right?
1789
01:41:53,339 --> 01:41:54,705
He moved in with Kit.
1790
01:41:55,842 --> 01:41:57,367
Right? At one time, and then...
1791
01:41:57,577 --> 01:41:59,808
...he also would
come over to my house.
1792
01:42:00,513 --> 01:42:05,178
In the complaint from The Who
to the various companies, right...
1793
01:42:05,385 --> 01:42:08,355
I mean, the time
it was originally signed...
1794
01:42:08,555 --> 01:42:11,957
...it was only actually signed
by Roger and John.
1795
01:42:12,192 --> 01:42:15,390
So Pete had eventually
gone along with it.
1796
01:42:15,595 --> 01:42:20,829
But Keith had been
the one member of the group...
1797
01:42:21,034 --> 01:42:24,903
...who refused to sign
those legal documents...
1798
01:42:25,105 --> 01:42:26,937
...against Kit and I.
1799
01:42:27,273 --> 01:42:30,573
He said, "I'm not gonna sign anything
to do with hurting Kit or Chris."
1800
01:42:31,644 --> 01:42:35,445
So we had one meeting where Keith
and the whole group were there.
1801
01:42:35,648 --> 01:42:38,345
And Sam Sylvester
was listing off the things...
1802
01:42:38,551 --> 01:42:41,851
...that were on the original complaint.
1803
01:42:42,055 --> 01:42:45,924
And every time there was
something about Kit and Chris...
1804
01:42:46,126 --> 01:42:48,095
...Keith would answer.
1805
01:42:48,461 --> 01:42:50,794
When money was missing,
"No, you don't understand.
1806
01:42:50,997 --> 01:42:53,660
Kit and Chris had to spend money
getting me out of prison.
1807
01:42:53,900 --> 01:42:55,493
Kit and Chris had to..."
You know?
1808
01:42:55,735 --> 01:42:59,103
He was the best defense lawyer
on our behalf.
1809
01:42:59,672 --> 01:43:02,972
Um, so, when...
1810
01:43:03,610 --> 01:43:06,011
...um, he died...
1811
01:43:07,514 --> 01:43:08,914
The Who, with their lawyers...
1812
01:43:09,115 --> 01:43:12,017
...wanted to get together with me
the day after the funeral.
1813
01:43:13,520 --> 01:43:14,681
They came here, right?
1814
01:43:14,921 --> 01:43:16,947
To Shepperton Studios,
where Kit and I met.
1815
01:43:18,424 --> 01:43:20,757
The Who own
Shepperton Studios, right?
1816
01:43:21,194 --> 01:43:23,686
And so... But that was
the symbol of Keith dying...
1817
01:43:23,930 --> 01:43:25,762
...and then this meeting.
1818
01:43:25,965 --> 01:43:31,302
So when I walked in here,
into this boardroom, at Shepperton here...
1819
01:43:31,504 --> 01:43:33,632
...that was my frame of mind.
1820
01:43:33,840 --> 01:43:36,332
And we waited about...
It was over half an hour.
1821
01:43:36,543 --> 01:43:39,308
And the person who lived nearest
to Shepperton was Pete...
1822
01:43:39,512 --> 01:43:40,810
...and he was the one that was late.
1823
01:43:41,147 --> 01:43:42,638
We're in the old house
having this meeting...
1824
01:43:42,849 --> 01:43:44,010
...discussing the management, right?
1825
01:43:44,217 --> 01:43:46,982
I'm there with my lawyer, in a raincoat,
my one lawyer.
1826
01:43:47,187 --> 01:43:49,816
There's a bank of lawyers
on the other side of the table.
1827
01:43:50,023 --> 01:43:52,959
And this is going on and, like...
1828
01:43:53,159 --> 01:43:55,628
...I'm getting more and more crazy...
1829
01:43:55,829 --> 01:43:58,321
...that I'm being sued
for mismanagement, right?
1830
01:43:58,531 --> 01:44:03,526
Kit isn't there, Kit didn't show up.
I don't have my support around me.
1831
01:44:03,736 --> 01:44:05,034
Kit is not doing well.
1832
01:44:06,039 --> 01:44:07,837
My life is pretty fucked up...
1833
01:44:08,041 --> 01:44:10,840
...and my wife is...
You know, I'm not with my wife.
1834
01:44:11,044 --> 01:44:14,071
And for me, in that state of mind
that I was in...
1835
01:44:16,182 --> 01:44:19,983
I just didn't want to continue anymore.
And so that was in my mind.
1836
01:44:20,386 --> 01:44:22,719
I'm looking at this place...
1837
01:44:22,956 --> 01:44:27,257
...this studio that, um,
Kit and I met at, right...
1838
01:44:27,493 --> 01:44:29,325
...that The Who now own.
1839
01:44:29,529 --> 01:44:31,725
Right? And I stood up and I said:
1840
01:44:31,965 --> 01:44:35,959
"Do you call this fucking
mismanagement?" Right?
1841
01:44:36,169 --> 01:44:39,901
You know, referring to...
They own Shepperton Studios.
1842
01:44:40,473 --> 01:44:43,966
I mean, what is fabulous management?
1843
01:44:44,177 --> 01:44:45,611
This is mismanagement? Right?
1844
01:44:45,845 --> 01:44:49,111
Anyway, I was trying to do
the best I could.
1845
01:44:49,916 --> 01:44:51,851
But the best I could...
1846
01:44:52,051 --> 01:44:56,546
...didn't include Kit...
1847
01:44:56,756 --> 01:45:00,090
...because I couldn't get him
to the table.
1848
01:45:00,526 --> 01:45:02,188
I was a manager...
1849
01:45:03,062 --> 01:45:05,088
...and I wasn't able to hold my ground.
1850
01:45:05,632 --> 01:45:07,567
It's like, you know...
1851
01:45:07,767 --> 01:45:11,204
...you can't get the lighting right,
and you're the cameraman.
1852
01:45:12,071 --> 01:45:13,869
That's what I was doing.
1853
01:45:14,073 --> 01:45:17,009
I didn't have film in the camera.
You know.
1854
01:45:17,210 --> 01:45:19,406
I knew that there was no way...
1855
01:45:19,612 --> 01:45:26,143
...to, sort of,
nicely move through this impasse.
1856
01:45:26,386 --> 01:45:31,586
So I just, as sensibly as I could...
1857
01:45:31,791 --> 01:45:37,025
...I tried to resolve a way
to just sign off from these guys.
1858
01:45:37,764 --> 01:45:39,392
Because I was in the studio...
1859
01:45:39,599 --> 01:45:41,932
...and because this is where
Kit and I first met...
1860
01:45:42,135 --> 01:45:45,299
...and it was just so...
It was all overwhelming.
1861
01:45:45,538 --> 01:45:48,599
So this place
of the beginning of all things...
1862
01:45:48,808 --> 01:45:50,071
...in my young life...
1863
01:45:50,276 --> 01:45:53,610
Becoming an assistant director
at Shepperton for the first time...
1864
01:45:53,813 --> 01:45:54,906
...and all of that...
1865
01:45:55,114 --> 01:45:58,915
...it had all just ended up
like this, you know?
1866
01:45:59,552 --> 01:46:01,987
When I thought about them,
I... "Fuck them," you know?
1867
01:46:02,188 --> 01:46:04,987
I hated them. You know, "Scumbags."
There wasn't any...
1868
01:46:05,191 --> 01:46:07,057
It was always like resentment.
1869
01:46:07,260 --> 01:46:09,320
I was angry, I was hurt,
I was pissed off.
1870
01:46:09,562 --> 01:46:13,658
You know, I was full of self-pity.
It was all this shit I hadn't done, right?
1871
01:46:13,866 --> 01:46:15,926
"These little fuckers,"
you know what I mean?
1872
01:46:16,135 --> 01:46:19,628
Like, I didn't get to make...
I didn't even direct Tommy, you know?
1873
01:46:26,980 --> 01:46:29,814
Kit told me his father died...
1874
01:46:30,450 --> 01:46:32,885
...at 45...
1875
01:46:33,119 --> 01:46:35,884
...and that he thought
he would die at 45 as well.
1876
01:46:39,125 --> 01:46:41,651
On my 45th birthday, um...
1877
01:46:41,861 --> 01:46:44,990
...I woke up in a detox.
1878
01:46:45,198 --> 01:46:47,224
Which I had gone to, right,
you know, specifically.
1879
01:46:47,400 --> 01:46:48,891
And I was 45.
1880
01:46:49,135 --> 01:46:51,730
So, um, you know...
1881
01:46:51,971 --> 01:46:55,100
...from that point on,
this idea of recovery...
1882
01:46:55,308 --> 01:46:58,210
...of being a sober guy, began.
1883
01:46:58,544 --> 01:46:59,876
It began.
1884
01:47:09,522 --> 01:47:13,516
- Should we walk down to Kit's?
- Okay, fine. Fine, fine. Okay.
1885
01:47:18,364 --> 01:47:21,198
There's someone in
the audience who is a really, really...
1886
01:47:21,401 --> 01:47:23,893
Man who's very special in my life...
1887
01:47:24,137 --> 01:47:27,938
...because The Who
would never have been...
1888
01:47:28,174 --> 01:47:31,406
...I'm sure, ever successful
without the help...
1889
01:47:32,245 --> 01:47:35,147
...of two special people.
1890
01:47:35,348 --> 01:47:38,147
In those days when we started,
we were a little band...
1891
01:47:38,351 --> 01:47:40,286
...and two people joined us.
1892
01:47:40,520 --> 01:47:42,751
There was Kit Lambert
and there was Chris Stamp.
1893
01:47:44,223 --> 01:47:46,419
Sadly,
Kit isn't around anymore...
1894
01:47:46,659 --> 01:47:49,094
...but Chris Stamp is here tonight.
1895
01:47:51,030 --> 01:47:52,760
- And...
- Sit down so he can see you.
1896
01:47:53,299 --> 01:47:55,859
I love him dearly
and I've got to tell you...
1897
01:47:56,069 --> 01:47:57,264
...they were so important.
1898
01:47:57,670 --> 01:47:59,969
They were the fifth and sixth
members of this band.
1899
01:48:00,206 --> 01:48:03,574
They formed the shell of the egg
that you know as The Who these days.
1900
01:48:03,776 --> 01:48:05,404
They guided us in every way.
1901
01:48:06,712 --> 01:48:09,978
And what Chris was really good at,
was he was the ideas man.
1902
01:48:10,216 --> 01:48:13,277
He was the juggler,
he was the magician saying:
1903
01:48:13,486 --> 01:48:16,115
"They can't just do an album.
We've gotta be on the ball.
1904
01:48:16,322 --> 01:48:18,587
We gotta do something
that's ahead of the curve."
1905
01:48:18,791 --> 01:48:20,487
It was so lovely
to see you out there.
1906
01:48:20,726 --> 01:48:22,092
- Yeah, no, it was fucking great, man.
- It really was.
1907
01:48:22,295 --> 01:48:24,730
I was, like... You know,
I was near tears all the time.
1908
01:48:24,931 --> 01:48:26,797
You know what I mean?
Because I was full.
1909
01:48:26,999 --> 01:48:30,094
I'm not mentioning it,
but I loved all the shit you said about me.
1910
01:48:30,269 --> 01:48:32,795
- Ha-ha-ha. I don't want to...
- Really, mate?
1911
01:48:33,005 --> 01:48:35,634
- I don't want to appear... Yes, yes, yes!
- True.
1912
01:48:35,842 --> 01:48:38,141
And then, okay, I got sober. Right?
1913
01:48:39,512 --> 01:48:42,949
I mean, and by the act of getting sober,
whatever that means...
1914
01:48:43,149 --> 01:48:45,948
What it meant for me was,
you know, I expanded somewhat...
1915
01:48:46,152 --> 01:48:49,987
...and started to sort of like,
own myself, for what I was, right?
1916
01:48:50,223 --> 01:48:53,819
You know, and that was just
a part of my life that was in the past.
1917
01:48:54,026 --> 01:48:56,291
I wasn't letting it
live in me now, you know.
1918
01:48:56,496 --> 01:48:58,089
I wasn't, like, festering over it.
1919
01:48:58,297 --> 01:48:59,526
And then Roger called me.
1920
01:48:59,765 --> 01:49:01,927
Right? Roger called me.
I think Pete called me.
1921
01:49:02,135 --> 01:49:04,627
I don't think they called me
for any particular reason.
1922
01:49:04,837 --> 01:49:07,136
Roger was... Roger...
1923
01:49:07,340 --> 01:49:12,108
Roger, he had all sorts of ideas
that he wanted to talk to me about.
1924
01:49:12,979 --> 01:49:14,140
You know.
1925
01:49:14,347 --> 01:49:16,839
So we talked about the ideas, right?
1926
01:49:17,183 --> 01:49:19,311
You know,
he made amends with his part.
1927
01:49:19,519 --> 01:49:21,954
I sort of said, well,
the same for me, you know?
1928
01:49:22,388 --> 01:49:26,382
I owned how I've left him behind.
It wasn't one-sided.
1929
01:49:26,626 --> 01:49:28,788
And the first idea that came up
between Roger and I...
1930
01:49:28,995 --> 01:49:31,294
...was he wanted to make a film
about Keith Moon.
1931
01:49:31,497 --> 01:49:33,329
And that seemed a way
to move forward.
1932
01:49:33,533 --> 01:49:35,661
It was a film,
it was another film, you know.
1933
01:49:35,868 --> 01:49:37,996
And so, we got a script organized.
1934
01:49:38,204 --> 01:49:41,140
We got it out to Hollywood, you know?
1935
01:49:41,340 --> 01:49:44,242
We raised money.
1936
01:49:51,851 --> 01:49:53,843
Well, The Who are being honored...
1937
01:49:54,053 --> 01:49:58,081
...it's called
the Kennedy Center Awards.
1938
01:49:58,591 --> 01:50:00,059
You're given an award...
1939
01:50:00,293 --> 01:50:05,391
...it's an outstanding contribution
to the arts and culture.
1940
01:50:05,998 --> 01:50:11,596
You know, I can also say
that I was still happy they got it, right?
1941
01:50:11,837 --> 01:50:14,705
I was genuinely happy they got it.
I wasn't sort of like:
1942
01:50:14,907 --> 01:50:18,036
"Yeah the fuckers, they've sold out."
I didn't think like that.
1943
01:50:18,244 --> 01:50:21,180
The invitation came
directly from Roger.
1944
01:50:21,380 --> 01:50:23,849
He was very gracious and very loving.
1945
01:50:24,050 --> 01:50:28,545
You know, Roger has an understanding that
this group of people, alive and dead...
1946
01:50:28,754 --> 01:50:31,724
...you know, where the centerpiece...
1947
01:50:31,924 --> 01:50:34,689
...is something bigger than all of us,
you know?
1948
01:50:34,894 --> 01:50:37,454
And Roger understands that
in a very, sort of, deep way.
1949
01:50:37,730 --> 01:50:40,564
And so he, with a lot of love
and a lot of graciousness...
1950
01:50:40,766 --> 01:50:44,203
...insisted that I come.
1951
01:50:44,470 --> 01:50:47,099
And I was happy to accept, you know?
1952
01:50:47,340 --> 01:50:50,105
Because it's about something
we were all involved with.
1953
01:50:50,343 --> 01:50:53,142
I mean, Kit is dead,
Keith's dead, John's dead...
1954
01:50:53,779 --> 01:50:57,216
But overall, the people
who were here today...
1955
01:50:57,416 --> 01:51:00,477
...the three of us here today, of
that era... And Bill Curbishley...
1956
01:51:00,720 --> 01:51:02,985
...who's been here since,
as the manager figure...
1957
01:51:03,222 --> 01:51:05,384
...have been involved in this process.
1958
01:51:06,225 --> 01:51:09,286
Pete said something which I loved.
1959
01:51:09,495 --> 01:51:12,795
He said, "As I wrote on
what The Who performed for...
1960
01:51:12,999 --> 01:51:15,798
...the people who liked us
felt seen and heard." Right?
1961
01:51:16,002 --> 01:51:19,769
He said, "Now that the fucking
privileged understand and like my lyrics...
1962
01:51:19,972 --> 01:51:21,998
...why the fuck
am I still writing them?"
1963
01:51:23,009 --> 01:51:25,444
I didn't want my life to be like,
well, I didn't get to make Tommy...
1964
01:51:25,645 --> 01:51:28,376
...I didn't get to make The Who film,
and I'm not making the Keith Moon film.
1965
01:51:28,581 --> 01:51:31,483
Right? So perhaps
I shouldn't be making fucking films.
1966
01:51:33,119 --> 01:51:35,247
You know,
perhaps that's not in the picture.
1967
01:51:35,454 --> 01:51:38,151
You know, I mean,
it was obviously not working, right?
1968
01:51:38,391 --> 01:51:39,984
I hadn't pulled one out of the bag.
1969
01:51:40,192 --> 01:51:42,593
I hadn't directed
this fucking great masterpiece...
1970
01:51:42,795 --> 01:51:46,288
...that I'd been carrying around me
since I'm like 16 or whatever it was.
1971
01:51:46,632 --> 01:51:48,828
Isn't that wild? The White House.
1972
01:51:49,035 --> 01:51:52,938
A lot of things we could've done,
and should have done, and didn't do...
1973
01:51:53,139 --> 01:51:56,701
...but we, you know, we did enough.
You know, we spurred each other on.
1974
01:51:56,942 --> 01:52:00,435
We were sort of, like...
You know, we were loving, man.
1975
01:52:00,680 --> 01:52:03,809
We were loving to each other,
you know?
1976
01:52:04,016 --> 01:52:07,009
It's very difficult to,
sort of, know, you know...
1977
01:52:07,219 --> 01:52:10,678
...the moments that you love someone
a lot of the time.
1978
01:52:13,459 --> 01:52:15,553
Yeah, love is giving.
1979
01:52:15,961 --> 01:52:19,454
Get a bit of love in your life,
you could give a little bit, right?
1980
01:52:20,132 --> 01:52:23,466
It's called intimacy, you know, and all...
1981
01:52:23,669 --> 01:52:27,231
We want to naturally back off
from all that shit, right?
1982
01:52:29,642 --> 01:52:32,077
And Kit Lambert, Chris Stamp,
Pete Townshend...
1983
01:52:32,311 --> 01:52:34,712
...Roger Daltrey,
Keith Moon and John Entwistle...
1984
01:52:34,947 --> 01:52:38,577
...didn't quite back off
for a long period of time, you know?
1985
01:52:40,986 --> 01:52:44,889
We all thought we were sort of
keeping our so-called "individual cool"...
1986
01:52:45,091 --> 01:52:46,491
...but we weren't, you know?
1987
01:52:47,259 --> 01:52:49,353
We were there for each other...
1988
01:52:49,562 --> 01:52:51,190
...you know, in an un-heroic way...
1989
01:52:51,397 --> 01:52:53,832
...in a sensitive, frightening way.
1990
01:52:54,033 --> 01:52:56,195
Sensitive and frightening.
1991
01:52:56,402 --> 01:52:58,894
Just gonna pull your jacket so...
1992
01:52:59,105 --> 01:53:01,370
It's about to roll out.
1993
01:53:01,574 --> 01:53:03,372
- Is that the end of the roll?
- Yeah.
1994
01:53:03,576 --> 01:53:05,340
That's the end of the night then.
1995
01:53:34,640 --> 01:53:37,610
♪ Every day I get in the queue ♪
1996
01:53:37,810 --> 01:53:39,574
♪ Too much, the Magic Bus ♪
1997
01:53:39,779 --> 01:53:42,544
♪ To get on the bus
That takes me to you ♪
1998
01:53:42,748 --> 01:53:44,774
♪ Too much, the Magic Bus ♪
1999
01:53:45,017 --> 01:53:48,112
♪ I'm so nervous I just sit and smile ♪
2000
01:53:48,320 --> 01:53:49,913
♪ Too much, the Magic Bus ♪
2001
01:53:50,122 --> 01:53:52,921
♪ Your house is only another mile ♪
2002
01:53:53,125 --> 01:53:55,390
♪ Too much, the Magic Bus ♪
2003
01:53:55,594 --> 01:53:58,063
♪ Thank you, driver, for getting me here ♪
2004
01:53:58,264 --> 01:54:00,597
♪ Too much, the Magic Bus ♪
2005
01:54:00,800 --> 01:54:03,463
♪ You'll be an inspector, have no fear ♪
2006
01:54:03,669 --> 01:54:05,763
♪ Too much, the Magic Bus ♪
2007
01:54:05,971 --> 01:54:08,736
♪ I don't wanna cause a fuss ♪
2008
01:54:08,941 --> 01:54:11,069
♪ Too much, the Magic Bus ♪
2009
01:54:11,277 --> 01:54:13,974
♪ Can I buy your Magic Bus? ♪
2010
01:54:14,180 --> 01:54:15,944
♪ Too much, the Magic Bus ♪
2011
01:54:16,148 --> 01:54:17,844
♪ No ♪
2012
01:54:27,193 --> 01:54:29,856
♪ I don't care how much I pay ♪
2013
01:54:30,129 --> 01:54:31,961
♪ Too much, the Magic Bus ♪
2014
01:54:32,164 --> 01:54:35,100
♪ I'm gonna drive my bus
To my baby each day ♪
2015
01:54:35,301 --> 01:54:37,861
♪ Too much, the Magic Bus ♪
2016
01:54:38,103 --> 01:54:40,197
♪ Every day you'll see the dust ♪
2017
01:54:40,439 --> 01:54:42,670
♪ Too much, the Magic Bus ♪
2018
01:54:42,875 --> 01:54:45,845
♪ As I drive to my baby
In my Magic Bus ♪
2019
01:54:46,078 --> 01:54:48,343
♪ Too much, the Magic Bus ♪
2020
01:54:48,581 --> 01:54:50,982
♪ Too much, the Magic Bus ♪
2021
01:54:51,183 --> 01:54:53,880
♪ Too much, the Magic Bus ♪
2022
01:54:54,119 --> 01:54:56,486
♪ Too much, the Magic Bus ♪
2023
01:54:59,158 --> 01:55:00,319
♪ The Magic Bus ♪
2024
01:55:00,526 --> 01:55:02,825
♪ Give me a hundred
The Magic Bus ♪
2025
01:55:03,028 --> 01:55:05,463
♪ She goes like thunder
The Magic Bus ♪
2026
01:55:05,664 --> 01:55:08,224
♪ I won't take under
The Magic Bus ♪
2027
01:55:08,467 --> 01:55:11,232
♪ It's a bus age wonder
I want it, I want it, I want it ♪
2028
01:55:11,470 --> 01:55:14,372
♪ You can have her
But this bus driving to hell ♪
2029
01:55:14,540 --> 01:55:17,635
♪ Onto my bus
I wanted to sell ♪
2030
01:55:17,810 --> 01:55:19,176
♪ I wanna drive it ♪
2031
01:55:37,663 --> 01:55:38,756
♪ You can't have it ♪
2032
01:55:41,333 --> 01:55:43,029
♪ You can't have it ♪
2033
01:55:44,236 --> 01:55:46,705
♪ Thrupence and sixpence every day ♪
2034
01:55:55,214 --> 01:55:57,945
♪ Thrupence and sixpence every way ♪
2035
01:56:05,591 --> 01:56:08,584
♪ But I wanna buy your Magic Bus ♪
2036
01:56:08,794 --> 01:56:11,354
♪ Too much, the Magic Bus
Give me a hundred ♪
2037
01:56:11,564 --> 01:56:14,056
♪ I wanna buy your Magic Bus ♪
2038
01:56:15,167 --> 01:56:17,466
♪ She goes like thunder
Magic Bus ♪
2039
01:56:17,803 --> 01:56:20,568
♪ Won't take under Magic Bus ♪
2040
01:56:20,773 --> 01:56:22,708
♪ I won't take under Magic Bus ♪
2041
01:56:22,908 --> 01:56:25,400
♪ It's a bus age wonder
Magic bus ♪
2042
01:56:25,611 --> 01:56:27,102
♪ I ain't got enough ♪
2043
01:56:27,313 --> 01:56:30,374
♪ I want it, I want it, I want it ♪
2044
01:56:30,549 --> 01:56:34,384
♪ What they going on about
God knows ♪
2045
01:56:34,587 --> 01:56:37,421
♪ I want it, I want it, I want it ♪
2046
01:56:38,290 --> 01:56:40,259
♪ Why don't he give it to him
I don't know ♪
2047
01:56:55,608 --> 01:56:57,975
♪ The Magic Bus
Too much, the Magic Bus ♪
2048
01:56:58,210 --> 01:57:00,577
♪ Magic Bus
Too much, the Magic Bus ♪
2049
01:57:00,779 --> 01:57:03,112
♪ Magic Bus
Too much, the Magic Bus ♪
2050
01:57:03,315 --> 01:57:05,807
♪ Magic Bus
Too much, the Magic Bus ♪
2051
01:57:06,018 --> 01:57:08,453
♪ Magic Bus
Too much, the Magic Bus ♪
2052
01:57:08,654 --> 01:57:11,317
♪ Too much, the Magic Bus ♪♪
2053
01:57:22,468 --> 01:57:25,461
You've
reached the voice mail of Chris Stamp.
2054
01:57:25,671 --> 01:57:28,163
Please leave a message.
I'll call you back. Thank you.