1
00:00:16,183 --> 00:00:18,242
Hi. It's me.

2
00:00:18,318 --> 00:00:20,912
Oh, we're not ready yet?

3
00:00:20,988 --> 00:00:22,353
Hi.

4
00:00:22,422 --> 00:00:24,117
It's me, Jesse.

5
00:00:24,191 --> 00:00:25,283
Are we there?

6
00:00:25,359 --> 00:00:27,122
Good. We're there.

7
00:00:27,194 --> 00:00:28,456
Well, this afternoon,

8
00:00:28,529 --> 00:00:31,623
after a very lousy sketch
about yo-yoing,

9
00:00:31,698 --> 00:00:34,394
I figure we'll, for lack of
anything better to do,

10
00:00:34,468 --> 00:00:37,767
we'll take it towards a more
serious side right about now.

11
00:00:37,838 --> 00:00:42,832
And we're going to conduct
an interview with

12
00:00:42,910 --> 00:00:46,368
Arnold Friedman, my father.

13
00:00:46,446 --> 00:00:50,644
I still feel like I knew
my father very well.

14
00:00:50,717 --> 00:00:54,050
I don't think that just because
there were things in his life

15
00:00:54,121 --> 00:00:56,282
that were private and
secret and shameful

16
00:00:56,356 --> 00:01:00,622
that that means that
the father who I knew

17
00:01:00,694 --> 00:01:04,721
and the things I knew about him
were in any way not real.

18
00:01:12,973 --> 00:01:16,875
They're gonna put me
in the movies

19
00:01:18,378 --> 00:01:22,712
They're gonna make
a big star out of me

20
00:01:22,783 --> 00:01:28,153
We'll make a film about a man
that's sad and lonely

21
00:01:28,221 --> 00:01:33,318
And all I got to do
is act naturally

22
00:01:33,393 --> 00:01:38,695
Well, I'll bet you I'm
a- gonna be a big star

23
00:01:38,765 --> 00:01:43,464
Might win an Oscar,
you can't never tell

24
00:01:44,671 --> 00:01:49,199
The movies gonna
make me a big star

25
00:01:49,276 --> 00:01:54,714
'Cause I can play
the part so well

26
00:01:54,781 --> 00:01:59,047
Well, I hope you come
to see me in the movies

27
00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:04,450
Then I know that you
will plainly see

28
00:02:05,692 --> 00:02:10,129
The biggest fool that's
ever hit the big time

29
00:02:10,197 --> 00:02:15,362
And all I got to do
is act naturally

30
00:02:20,007 --> 00:02:22,737
Arnold liked pictures.

31
00:02:22,809 --> 00:02:24,276
I mean, that's, let's face it.

32
00:02:24,344 --> 00:02:25,675
He liked pictures.

33
00:02:25,746 --> 00:02:27,043
Well, we're here.

34
00:02:27,114 --> 00:02:29,412
This is it, the whole
family assembled.

35
00:02:29,483 --> 00:02:33,010
Everybody in
Great Neck, New York.

36
00:02:44,331 --> 00:02:47,164
We had three sons.

37
00:02:47,234 --> 00:02:50,101
David, being the oldest

38
00:02:50,170 --> 00:02:52,900
had a lot of responsibility
when he was young.

39
00:02:54,374 --> 00:02:58,674
Seth was an outright rebel.

40
00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,807
And somehow, Jesse
was just like the

41
00:03:03,884 --> 00:03:06,580
the one that keeps
trying to catch up

42
00:03:06,653 --> 00:03:08,553
and doesn't quite make it.

43
00:03:11,892 --> 00:03:15,658
I have very good memories
of the, of my, well,

44
00:03:16,930 --> 00:03:19,398
I have very good memories
of my childhood.

45
00:03:20,567 --> 00:03:22,159
I had a great time growing up.

46
00:03:22,235 --> 00:03:25,796
I had a great time
because of my friends.

47
00:03:25,872 --> 00:03:28,841
And my father was great.

48
00:03:28,909 --> 00:03:31,104
I mean, he may not have
been the best father,

49
00:03:31,178 --> 00:03:36,377
but he went to
Columbia University.

50
00:03:36,450 --> 00:03:39,385
And then when he graduated,
he went to the Catskills

51
00:03:39,453 --> 00:03:41,148
to play in his band.

52
00:03:44,157 --> 00:03:45,784
The Jazzbo Mambo

53
00:03:45,859 --> 00:03:47,383
With a boogie beat

54
00:03:47,461 --> 00:03:51,056
Is the newest dance
on 52nd Street

55
00:03:51,131 --> 00:03:54,066
The band was called Arnito Rey
and his Orchestra.

56
00:03:54,134 --> 00:03:56,329
My father's name
was Arnold Friedman.

57
00:03:56,403 --> 00:03:58,667
This was in the late
40's and early '50s.

58
00:03:58,739 --> 00:03:59,831
So he played Latin music.

59
00:03:59,906 --> 00:04:01,100
It was very big at the time,

60
00:04:01,174 --> 00:04:03,335
and so he changed
his name to Arnito Rey.

61
00:04:03,410 --> 00:04:07,506
We'll do a Jazzbo Mambo
8 to the bar

62
00:04:07,581 --> 00:04:08,673
I don't know.

63
00:04:08,749 --> 00:04:09,841
My dad was a cool guy, you know?

64
00:04:09,916 --> 00:04:11,543
He was a schoolteacher.

65
00:04:11,618 --> 00:04:15,782
And I think that the other kids
liked him, and he liked kids.

66
00:04:15,856 --> 00:04:18,552
But he didn't like spending
a lot of time with his wife,

67
00:04:18,625 --> 00:04:21,719
so he would teach high
school during the day

68
00:04:21,795 --> 00:04:23,922
and then after school, he would
come home and teach

69
00:04:23,997 --> 00:04:27,091
piano lessons and later computer
lessons in the house.

70
00:04:28,568 --> 00:04:30,365
And that was, of course, more
time he didn't have to spend

71
00:04:30,437 --> 00:04:32,337
with his wife.

72
00:04:32,405 --> 00:04:35,806
I'm not that anxious to talk
about his father,

73
00:04:35,876 --> 00:04:39,607
because, you know,
we were divorced, and

74
00:04:41,815 --> 00:04:44,943
But his father, he would,

75
00:04:45,018 --> 00:04:47,316
I don't really want
to talk about it.

76
00:04:47,387 --> 00:04:50,049
In case anybody didn't know,
I'm the father of this family.

77
00:04:50,123 --> 00:04:51,420
I'm never in the movies.

78
00:04:51,491 --> 00:04:52,753
Never see me in any
of the pictures,

79
00:04:52,826 --> 00:04:54,054
but I really am the father.

80
00:04:54,127 --> 00:04:55,219
And we're all gathered
together

81
00:04:55,295 --> 00:04:57,092
while David is messing up
the camera here.

82
00:04:57,164 --> 00:05:00,361
Now he's taking a good movie
and zooming in and out.

83
00:05:00,433 --> 00:05:02,196
When you see me on this,
you're gonna say

84
00:05:02,269 --> 00:05:04,794
Okay, shut it.

85
00:05:04,871 --> 00:05:08,807
He died of a surprise heart
attack about 5 years ago.

86
00:05:08,875 --> 00:05:11,639
And it was very, very sad.

87
00:05:11,711 --> 00:05:14,544
He was, you know,

88
00:05:14,614 --> 00:05:18,380
selfless, altruistic.

89
00:05:18,451 --> 00:05:21,318
But in the end, he wasn't
together with your mom?

90
00:05:21,388 --> 00:05:23,185
He wasn't together
with my mother at the end.

91
00:05:23,256 --> 00:05:25,918
And when did they make
the decision not to be together?

92
00:05:25,992 --> 00:05:28,392
Long before he died?

93
00:05:28,461 --> 00:05:30,326
Couple years before his death.

94
00:05:35,902 --> 00:05:37,802
There's a lot I,

95
00:05:37,871 --> 00:05:41,136
well, whatever.

96
00:05:41,208 --> 00:05:44,006
There's some things I don't
want to talk about.

97
00:06:16,810 --> 00:06:20,211
Well, this is private,
so if you don't,

98
00:06:20,280 --> 00:06:21,770
if you're not me,

99
00:06:21,848 --> 00:06:23,406
then you really shouldn't
be watching this,

100
00:06:23,483 --> 00:06:25,883
because this is supposed to be
a private situation

101
00:06:25,952 --> 00:06:27,579
between me and me.

102
00:06:27,654 --> 00:06:31,146
This is between me now
and me in the future.

103
00:06:31,224 --> 00:06:32,316
So turn it off.

104
00:06:32,392 --> 00:06:33,484
Don't watch this.

105
00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:35,824
This is private.

106
00:06:41,434 --> 00:06:45,700
If you're the fucking,
oh, God, the cops.

107
00:06:45,772 --> 00:06:48,138
And if you're
the fucking cops,

108
00:06:48,208 --> 00:06:50,438
go fuck yourselves,

109
00:06:50,510 --> 00:06:52,444
because you're full of shit.

110
00:06:53,780 --> 00:06:59,446
Back in 1984, US Customs had
seized some child pornography,

111
00:06:59,519 --> 00:07:01,749
addressed from
the Netherlands,

112
00:07:01,821 --> 00:07:04,619
in the mail to Arnold Friedman.

113
00:07:04,691 --> 00:07:07,216
Now, he never got that
piece of mail,

114
00:07:07,294 --> 00:07:10,354
but his name was
forwarded on to us.

115
00:07:10,430 --> 00:07:13,866
So what we would do then
would be to initiate

116
00:07:13,934 --> 00:07:16,232
a correspondence with
Arnold in the hopes

117
00:07:16,303 --> 00:07:20,535
that we can determine if he is
in fact willing to violate

118
00:07:20,607 --> 00:07:25,635
the statute again about mailing
or receiving child pornography.

119
00:07:25,712 --> 00:07:30,809
"Dear Stan, the book is
Joe, 14, and his uncle.

120
00:07:30,884 --> 00:07:36,117
I think I'd like you to send me
something, sort of good faith,

121
00:07:36,189 --> 00:07:38,589
and I will forward this rather
precious book to you.

122
00:07:38,658 --> 00:07:40,216
Thanks, Arnie. "

123
00:07:42,696 --> 00:07:45,722
See, it's very hard
to believe that

124
00:07:45,799 --> 00:07:52,329
this so-called "good
marriage" was so disturbed.

125
00:07:52,405 --> 00:07:56,808
He sent him these pictures,
and he sent him a note

126
00:07:56,876 --> 00:08:00,243
that I remember, because
the lawyer got the note.

127
00:08:00,313 --> 00:08:02,747
And then he wrote, "Enjoy. "

128
00:08:09,089 --> 00:08:10,579
Since he had sent
the magazine,

129
00:08:10,657 --> 00:08:12,181
he was always asking
for it back.

130
00:08:12,258 --> 00:08:15,887
So I asked the prosecutors,
"Let's grant him his wish.

131
00:08:15,962 --> 00:08:17,589
He wants his magazine back. "

132
00:08:17,664 --> 00:08:20,861
I dressed up as a mail carrier,
knocked on his door,

133
00:08:20,934 --> 00:08:22,868
asked him if he was
Arnold Friedman.

134
00:08:22,936 --> 00:08:24,369
He replied he was.

135
00:08:24,437 --> 00:08:26,268
And I said, "I have
a package for you.

136
00:08:26,339 --> 00:08:27,966
Sign right here. "

137
00:08:28,041 --> 00:08:29,838
He did.

138
00:08:29,909 --> 00:08:32,207
About an hour later,
we went back.

139
00:08:32,278 --> 00:08:35,839
We would give him some
time with the magazine.

140
00:08:35,915 --> 00:08:37,143
I'm dressed now.

141
00:08:37,217 --> 00:08:40,084
I just put a blue suit jacket
over the carrier's uniform.

142
00:08:40,153 --> 00:08:43,884
And I told him, "I have a search
warrant for child pornography. "

143
00:08:43,957 --> 00:08:46,687
He says, "There's nothin'
like that here. "

144
00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:48,421
And I said,
"You don't recognize me?"

145
00:08:48,495 --> 00:08:50,326
I'd just been at
his door an hour ago.

146
00:08:50,397 --> 00:08:51,762
He goes, "No. "

147
00:08:51,831 --> 00:08:54,493
And I took off my jacket, and I
said, "Now do you recognize me?"

148
00:08:54,567 --> 00:08:59,834
"Oh, yeah. Oh, okay.
The magazine is upstairs. "

149
00:08:59,906 --> 00:09:02,033
So we went up to his bedroom.

150
00:09:02,108 --> 00:09:04,702
In the top dresser door
was the open magazine.

151
00:09:06,246 --> 00:09:08,077
Well, he thought we would take
the magazine and leave,

152
00:09:08,148 --> 00:09:10,139
and I said, "No, we have
a search warrant.

153
00:09:10,216 --> 00:09:13,583
We're gonna search the whole
house for child pornography. "

154
00:09:16,689 --> 00:09:20,318
And around that time
his wife showed up.

155
00:09:20,393 --> 00:09:23,624
I thought they were
searching, like, for

156
00:09:23,696 --> 00:09:25,687
marijuana or something.

157
00:09:25,765 --> 00:09:27,528
I didn't know what they
were searching for,

158
00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:29,067
to tell you the truth.

159
00:09:29,135 --> 00:09:33,629
And I thought
it was a big mistake.

160
00:09:33,706 --> 00:09:36,231
One of the first things
we went to was his office.

161
00:09:36,309 --> 00:09:41,747
And I remember just as I was
about to pull out a drawer,

162
00:09:41,815 --> 00:09:44,443
Mr. Friedman came
rushing in and said,

163
00:09:44,517 --> 00:09:46,178
"Wait. I'll get that for you. "

164
00:09:46,252 --> 00:09:48,083
And said, "Here.

165
00:09:48,154 --> 00:09:50,145
This is all that's there. "

166
00:09:50,223 --> 00:09:53,522
And it was one piece of mail
from the Netherlands,

167
00:09:53,593 --> 00:09:55,424
but it was child pornography.

168
00:09:55,495 --> 00:09:57,360
And he said, "That's it.

169
00:09:57,430 --> 00:09:59,261
That's all there is. "

170
00:09:59,332 --> 00:10:00,629
And I said, "Well, that's
great, Mr. Friedman,

171
00:10:00,700 --> 00:10:01,928
but we're still gonna search. "

172
00:10:02,001 --> 00:10:04,595
And he goes, "I don't
understand why you don't go

173
00:10:04,671 --> 00:10:08,004
when I tell you
that's all there is?"

174
00:10:08,074 --> 00:10:09,701
And I said, "Well,
we don't believe you. "

175
00:10:10,376 --> 00:10:12,037
Well, it's not something he
sort of left lying around

176
00:10:12,078 --> 00:10:14,012
on the kitchen table.

177
00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:18,016
He wasn't proud of it,
and he kept it hidden.

178
00:10:18,084 --> 00:10:21,542
He had his office downstairs.

179
00:10:21,621 --> 00:10:23,714
It wasn't, like, right there.

180
00:10:23,790 --> 00:10:25,121
You had to go downstairs

181
00:10:25,191 --> 00:10:27,318
and around the corner
to get to his office.

182
00:10:27,393 --> 00:10:30,851
We used to have
someone that cleaned.

183
00:10:30,930 --> 00:10:33,125
He says, "Don't let
her clean in here.

184
00:10:33,199 --> 00:10:35,827
It's okay. I don't want
my things disturbed. "

185
00:10:35,902 --> 00:10:38,234
So all right.

186
00:10:38,304 --> 00:10:40,135
I never went in there.

187
00:10:40,206 --> 00:10:42,538
Then one of our inspectors
moved the piano

188
00:10:42,609 --> 00:10:43,803
that was in that office.

189
00:10:43,877 --> 00:10:47,005
And that's where his stash
of magazines were held,

190
00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:48,445
behind the piano.

191
00:10:50,283 --> 00:10:53,775
And this was Arnold's secret.

192
00:10:53,853 --> 00:10:58,483
He liked to look
at pictures of boys.

193
00:10:58,558 --> 00:11:02,517
And it's not that he
acted on these things.

194
00:11:02,595 --> 00:11:08,465
He just wanted to look at these
pictures and meditate or

195
00:11:12,405 --> 00:11:14,771
And these are listings
of the magazines

196
00:11:14,841 --> 00:11:17,241
that were found
behind the piano.

197
00:11:17,310 --> 00:11:19,210
"Young Boys & Sodomy. "

198
00:11:19,279 --> 00:11:21,611
"Incest Case Histories. "

199
00:11:21,681 --> 00:11:24,946
Something called
"Chicken Pickin's Magazine. "

200
00:11:28,721 --> 00:11:31,246
And in addition to that,
we found evidence

201
00:11:31,324 --> 00:11:35,385
of a computer class being
taught there by Mr. Friedman.

202
00:11:35,461 --> 00:11:39,522
And we did seize
some list of names

203
00:11:39,599 --> 00:11:42,568
that we thought
could be students.

204
00:11:42,635 --> 00:11:45,570
I remember walking
in there saying,

205
00:11:45,638 --> 00:11:47,902
"Goddamn. We could
have a problem here. "

206
00:11:52,979 --> 00:11:56,346
Just when you think everything
is going to be dull,

207
00:11:56,416 --> 00:11:59,579
something gets dropped
on your lap, you know,

208
00:11:59,652 --> 00:12:03,315
and it turns out to be something
bigger than you ever thought.

209
00:12:03,389 --> 00:12:05,755
What happened was one
of the detectives

210
00:12:05,825 --> 00:12:07,486
from the vice squad
came in to see me.

211
00:12:07,560 --> 00:12:09,255
And he had a list.

212
00:12:09,329 --> 00:12:11,388
And it was at that point that
we were able to learn

213
00:12:11,464 --> 00:12:14,228
that these were computer
classes that went on

214
00:12:14,300 --> 00:12:17,633
literally every day of
the week and Saturday.

215
00:12:17,704 --> 00:12:21,697
And we drew a big map of the
whole village of Great Neck

216
00:12:21,774 --> 00:12:25,437
sectioned it off, and started
sending detectives out

217
00:12:25,511 --> 00:12:26,944
to do interviews.

218
00:12:27,013 --> 00:12:28,981
She set us up in teams,

219
00:12:29,048 --> 00:12:31,346
male/female teams.

220
00:12:31,417 --> 00:12:37,356
And we got a list
of alleged victims.

221
00:12:37,423 --> 00:12:38,856
Soon as we went
into the house,

222
00:12:38,925 --> 00:12:41,223
we were usually approached
by the mothers.

223
00:12:41,294 --> 00:12:44,661
And we explained why we're
there, what we're doing there,

224
00:12:44,731 --> 00:12:46,596
and we'd really like to
talk to their children,

225
00:12:46,666 --> 00:12:48,930
preferably alone.

226
00:12:49,002 --> 00:12:51,436
The parents were
becoming impatient.

227
00:12:51,504 --> 00:12:54,405
They wanted something
done immediately.

228
00:12:54,474 --> 00:12:57,739
But you always want to be very
careful about how you proceed,

229
00:12:57,810 --> 00:13:00,870
because the one thing
that you worry about

230
00:13:01,014 --> 00:13:03,915
I know I worried about
it all the time, is

231
00:13:03,983 --> 00:13:07,919
just charging somebody
with this kind of a crime

232
00:13:07,987 --> 00:13:09,818
is enough to ruin their lives.

233
00:13:09,889 --> 00:13:13,325
So you want to make sure that
you have enough evidence

234
00:13:13,393 --> 00:13:18,456
and that you're convinced that
you're making a good charge.

235
00:13:20,033 --> 00:13:21,762
And how much time was
there between the time

236
00:13:21,834 --> 00:13:23,392
the postal inspector
searched the house

237
00:13:23,469 --> 00:13:25,767
and the time that you went
in for the second search?

238
00:13:25,838 --> 00:13:27,703
Well, it would have been
less than a month,

239
00:13:27,774 --> 00:13:30,334
because we did that the day
before Thanksgiving.

240
00:13:35,181 --> 00:13:36,375
A prominent middle-aged
teacher

241
00:13:36,449 --> 00:13:38,314
in a prosperous
Long Island town

242
00:13:38,384 --> 00:13:41,444
is charged with sodomizing young
boys who were his students.

243
00:13:41,521 --> 00:13:43,648
Police are charging that
sexual abuse went on

244
00:13:43,723 --> 00:13:46,988
behind the doors of
17 Picadilly Road in Great Neck.

245
00:13:47,060 --> 00:13:48,584
We rang the doorbell.

246
00:13:48,661 --> 00:13:53,223
As soon as he realized who it
was, he wasn't gonna let us in.

247
00:13:53,299 --> 00:13:55,767
So one of the detectives
broke the door down.

248
00:13:55,835 --> 00:13:58,565
And we went into
the premises at that point.

249
00:13:58,638 --> 00:14:00,003
Arnold was by himself.

250
00:14:00,073 --> 00:14:02,906
His wife was out shopping.

251
00:14:02,975 --> 00:14:09,744
I was out to the store to
buy a Thanksgiving turkey.

252
00:14:09,816 --> 00:14:13,980
And I go up the front
walk to the house,

253
00:14:14,053 --> 00:14:17,887
and there're people
all over the house.

254
00:14:17,957 --> 00:14:21,757
And my husband is sitting,
looking very sheepishly

255
00:14:21,828 --> 00:14:27,130
in the dining room, handcuffed.

256
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,465
By this time, just about
every news organization

257
00:14:30,536 --> 00:14:33,232
you could name had
arrived on the scene.

258
00:14:33,306 --> 00:14:36,275
I went home for Thanksgiving.

259
00:14:36,342 --> 00:14:39,573
Got to the house, and there's
cops and news trucks

260
00:14:39,645 --> 00:14:41,135
all over the place.

261
00:14:41,214 --> 00:14:42,841
And

262
00:14:44,250 --> 00:14:45,342
I got worried, of course.

263
00:14:45,418 --> 00:14:47,283
When David came to the house,

264
00:14:47,353 --> 00:14:49,617
we were able to
ascertain eventually

265
00:14:49,689 --> 00:14:51,418
the type of business he was in.

266
00:14:52,792 --> 00:14:55,420
And we heard that he was
involved in children's

267
00:14:55,495 --> 00:14:59,591
entertainment in the form of
some sort of clown activities.

268
00:14:59,665 --> 00:15:03,328
I was there when
the clown came in.

269
00:15:03,403 --> 00:15:05,633
He was ranting and raving.

270
00:15:05,705 --> 00:15:07,138
We had words.

271
00:15:07,206 --> 00:15:08,571
And I was going
through the folders.

272
00:15:08,641 --> 00:15:09,938
We told him to take a hike.

273
00:15:10,009 --> 00:15:12,204
And he kept trying
to come into the house,

274
00:15:12,278 --> 00:15:14,769
and I kept telling him
that he couldn't,

275
00:15:14,847 --> 00:15:15,973
that he had to leave.

276
00:15:16,048 --> 00:15:19,040
He wasn't allowed
while we were searching.

277
00:15:19,118 --> 00:15:21,518
And finally, he came in
for the last time.

278
00:15:21,587 --> 00:15:22,713
He bent down.

279
00:15:22,789 --> 00:15:24,950
I really thought he had
a weapon in that duffle bag.

280
00:15:25,024 --> 00:15:28,721
Everybody kind of, you know,
reached for a gun at one point.

281
00:15:28,795 --> 00:15:30,592
What he came out with

282
00:15:30,663 --> 00:15:34,326
was a pair of Fruit
of the Loom underwear.

283
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,995
And he started prancing around,
flailing his arms in the air,

284
00:15:38,070 --> 00:15:41,767
saying, "Look at me.
I'm an asshole. "

285
00:15:41,841 --> 00:15:45,299
They're harassing my father
for no reason at all.

286
00:15:45,378 --> 00:15:49,815
If I had had some kind of
Arabian sand scarf

287
00:15:49,882 --> 00:15:51,213
I would have wrapped
that around my face

288
00:15:51,284 --> 00:15:53,013
and been Lawrence of Arabia.

289
00:15:53,085 --> 00:15:54,848
Maybe that
would have been better.

290
00:15:54,921 --> 00:15:56,752
But I took out underwear,
and I put it on my head

291
00:15:56,823 --> 00:15:58,017
because I didn't want
to be on camera.

292
00:16:00,426 --> 00:16:02,417
The first arrested
was Arnold Friedman,

293
00:16:02,495 --> 00:16:05,658
a retired schoolteacher who was
charged with sodomizing boys

294
00:16:05,731 --> 00:16:08,029
aged 8 to 11.

295
00:16:08,100 --> 00:16:11,365
The charges are that, while
running a computer school,

296
00:16:11,437 --> 00:16:15,271
Arnold Friedman and his son
engaged in various forms

297
00:16:15,341 --> 00:16:18,469
of sexual abuse
against minor children.

298
00:16:18,544 --> 00:16:20,808
Jesse pulls up coming
home from school.

299
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,007
His friends dump him
out of the car.

300
00:16:23,082 --> 00:16:26,210
David sort of grabbed me,
and we were sitting

301
00:16:26,285 --> 00:16:29,152
a couple of houses down,
sort of on the sidewalk.

302
00:16:29,222 --> 00:16:30,883
And he was saying
something to me.

303
00:16:30,957 --> 00:16:33,824
And then one of the TV
cameras came over,

304
00:16:33,893 --> 00:16:35,861
so we kind of ran
to the backyard.

305
00:16:35,928 --> 00:16:37,156
And we went behind the house.

306
00:16:37,230 --> 00:16:39,061
And we were in the backyard
of our house.

307
00:16:39,131 --> 00:16:42,498
And the cops came back, and they
said, "What's going on here?"

308
00:16:42,568 --> 00:16:44,058
And I said, "Don't worry about
it. It's just me and Jesse. "

309
00:16:44,136 --> 00:16:46,127
And they said,
"Well, we want Jesse.

310
00:16:46,205 --> 00:16:48,298
We need Jesse
in the house now. "

311
00:16:48,374 --> 00:16:52,367
Of course, we thought,
you know,

312
00:16:52,445 --> 00:16:53,673
we didn't know why that was.

313
00:16:54,914 --> 00:16:58,372
As we conducted more interviews
of the children,

314
00:16:58,451 --> 00:17:00,578
Jesse's name started to pop up.

315
00:17:00,653 --> 00:17:01,984
And Jesse was there.

316
00:17:02,054 --> 00:17:03,351
What did Jesse do?

317
00:17:03,422 --> 00:17:05,856
And then eventually we were
able to ascertain

318
00:17:05,925 --> 00:17:09,725
that Jesse's role was not one
of, you know, helping his dad

319
00:17:09,795 --> 00:17:11,592
conduct the computer class,

320
00:17:11,664 --> 00:17:14,827
but basically abusing
the children himself.

321
00:17:14,901 --> 00:17:16,300
We didn't have children
telling us

322
00:17:16,369 --> 00:17:18,132
that Arnold had
slapped them around.

323
00:17:18,204 --> 00:17:21,367
But quite a number of the kids
reported incidents

324
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,409
of being slapped and having
their hair pulled

325
00:17:24,477 --> 00:17:26,843
or their arms twisted by Jesse.

326
00:17:26,913 --> 00:17:30,280
He was, by far,
the more violent one.

327
00:17:30,349 --> 00:17:32,647
All these policemen
said that Jesse

328
00:17:32,718 --> 00:17:34,345
was some kind of aggressor.

329
00:17:34,420 --> 00:17:37,082
That even his father
was cowering,

330
00:17:37,156 --> 00:17:41,525
and Jesse was this sexual,
molesting tyrant.

331
00:17:41,594 --> 00:17:44,154
I challenge anyone
to find anyone

332
00:17:44,230 --> 00:17:49,258
who Jesse had even teased
as a child or called a name.

333
00:17:49,335 --> 00:17:51,633
Jesse was not an angry person.

334
00:17:51,704 --> 00:17:54,605
He was not an upset person.

335
00:17:54,674 --> 00:17:57,472
So we ended up spending
a lot of time together.

336
00:17:57,543 --> 00:18:01,741
I was over his house 3 days
a week, 4 days a week.

337
00:18:01,814 --> 00:18:06,183
And as far as I know him,
none of this ever happened,

338
00:18:06,252 --> 00:18:08,083
not on my watch.

339
00:18:09,488 --> 00:18:12,184
Eighteen-year-old Jesse Friedman
also stands accused

340
00:18:12,258 --> 00:18:17,457
of sex abuse and using a child
in a sexual performance.

341
00:18:17,530 --> 00:18:19,998
The only thought that I just
kept having the whole night

342
00:18:20,066 --> 00:18:22,466
was, "We're gonna get bailed out
and then we'll go home

343
00:18:22,535 --> 00:18:23,729
and we'll figure out
what's going on,

344
00:18:23,803 --> 00:18:24,929
and the lawyers will
take care of this,

345
00:18:25,004 --> 00:18:26,198
and they'll straighten
this out. "

346
00:18:26,272 --> 00:18:28,399
Because it was still
just a matter of,

347
00:18:28,474 --> 00:18:30,169
"This is a big
misunderstanding. "

348
00:18:32,612 --> 00:18:35,638
But when the bail was set
at a million dollars,

349
00:18:35,715 --> 00:18:38,206
instead of going out
with Mom and David

350
00:18:38,284 --> 00:18:42,482
like we were supposed to,
we went back the other way.

351
00:18:42,555 --> 00:18:45,524
And that was the moment when

352
00:18:45,591 --> 00:18:48,287
there was this whole new sense
that the problem was

353
00:18:48,361 --> 00:18:50,295
much worse than I
originally thought.

354
00:19:13,819 --> 00:19:16,379
The investigation didn't
end at that point.

355
00:19:16,455 --> 00:19:21,654
That really was the arrest
and the search of the house.

356
00:19:21,727 --> 00:19:25,823
And then we went on, because we
had literally, at that point

357
00:19:25,898 --> 00:19:27,923
dozens more interviews to do.

358
00:19:36,809 --> 00:19:42,338
Somewhere along the way, I think
it was the Nassau County cops,

359
00:19:42,415 --> 00:19:46,715
they showed me this magazine,
and they said,

360
00:19:46,786 --> 00:19:48,720
"You see?
Look at this magazine. "

361
00:19:48,788 --> 00:19:50,756
And they showed me the magazine.

362
00:19:50,823 --> 00:19:52,984
They were embarrassed
to show it to me

363
00:19:53,059 --> 00:19:55,960
because of what
the pictures were.

364
00:19:56,028 --> 00:19:58,053
And you know, I didn't see it.

365
00:19:58,130 --> 00:20:02,089
My eyes were in
the right direction,

366
00:20:02,168 --> 00:20:06,662
but my brain saw nothing.

367
00:20:06,739 --> 00:20:09,765
Because when it was all over,

368
00:20:09,842 --> 00:20:14,973
the lawyer showed me
the magazine, and then I saw it.

369
00:20:15,047 --> 00:20:17,641
For the first time,
I really saw it.

370
00:20:17,717 --> 00:20:21,153
I couldn't
believe what I saw.

371
00:20:24,990 --> 00:20:28,187
I mean, I had no concept
that this

372
00:20:28,260 --> 00:20:30,125
thing even exists
in the world,

373
00:20:30,196 --> 00:20:34,030
that this magazine would
even be in the world.

374
00:20:34,100 --> 00:20:38,969
I mean, we had
a middle-class home, educated.

375
00:20:39,038 --> 00:20:41,939
I had a good family, right?

376
00:20:42,007 --> 00:20:44,441
Where did this come from?

377
00:20:46,312 --> 00:20:48,212
Mr. And Mrs. Friedman's house

378
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,976
on this most beautiful
Thanksgiving dinner.

379
00:20:52,585 --> 00:20:54,246
For my daughter,
for my son-in-law,

380
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,721
and for my 3 grandsons.

381
00:20:57,790 --> 00:21:01,658
I'm thankful that both my
brothers are home, and

382
00:21:02,762 --> 00:21:06,198
I'm most thankful

383
00:21:08,434 --> 00:21:10,732
to my husband, to Arnie.

384
00:21:14,073 --> 00:21:15,631
Anything you want
to say, Mr. Friedman?

385
00:21:16,942 --> 00:21:18,136
Are you guilty?

386
00:21:18,210 --> 00:21:20,041
Did you do all they say you did?

387
00:21:21,247 --> 00:21:22,612
No comment.

388
00:21:22,681 --> 00:21:25,514
I was the first to visit
my brother in prison.

389
00:21:27,353 --> 00:21:31,016
And that was a moment in
my life I'll never forget.

390
00:21:33,959 --> 00:21:35,256
He came into the room.

391
00:21:35,327 --> 00:21:36,726
I was sitting at this
table, a lot of tables,

392
00:21:36,796 --> 00:21:37,888
and they were crowded.

393
00:21:37,963 --> 00:21:39,396
Just awful surroundings.

394
00:21:39,465 --> 00:21:41,126
And he didn't have
his glasses on.

395
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:42,963
Without his glasses,
he was blind as a bat.

396
00:21:43,035 --> 00:21:45,560
They'd taken them off and
broken them, stepped on them.

397
00:21:47,072 --> 00:21:48,198
He had a smell of urine.

398
00:21:48,274 --> 00:21:49,605
They were throwing urine at him.

399
00:21:49,675 --> 00:21:51,302
They were threatening to
throw him down the stairs.

400
00:21:51,377 --> 00:21:53,368
They knew what
he was in there for.

401
00:21:53,445 --> 00:21:55,504
It was all over the media.

402
00:21:55,581 --> 00:21:59,176
And he was half-blind and
hadn't shaved in two days

403
00:21:59,251 --> 00:22:03,551
and shivering and cold
and scared out of his wits.

404
00:22:03,622 --> 00:22:05,180
The first words out
of his mouth were,

405
00:22:05,257 --> 00:22:08,158
"Howie, they're gonna kill me.
Get me out of here. "

406
00:22:12,064 --> 00:22:16,057
The People versus Arnold
Friedman and Jesse Friedman.

407
00:22:16,135 --> 00:22:18,262
Indictment 67430.

408
00:22:18,337 --> 00:22:19,736
Step up, please.

409
00:22:19,805 --> 00:22:22,899
So began the very first time
cameras were permitted

410
00:22:22,975 --> 00:22:24,966
in a Nassau County courtroom.

411
00:22:25,044 --> 00:22:26,773
Fifty-six-year-old
Arnold Friedman

412
00:22:26,846 --> 00:22:28,677
and his 18-year-old son Jesse

413
00:22:28,747 --> 00:22:32,183
heard the court clerk read off
a 91-count indictment

414
00:22:32,251 --> 00:22:35,948
charging them with
sodomy and sexual abuse.

415
00:22:36,021 --> 00:22:38,182
Arnold Friedman, how do you
plead to this indictment?

416
00:22:38,257 --> 00:22:39,451
Guilty or not guilty?

417
00:22:39,525 --> 00:22:40,719
Not guilty.

418
00:22:40,793 --> 00:22:43,455
And Jesse Friedman, how do you
plead to this indictment?

419
00:22:43,529 --> 00:22:44,689
Not guilty.

420
00:22:44,763 --> 00:22:47,163
My brother and Jesse kept
saying they're innocent.

421
00:22:47,233 --> 00:22:49,201
"This is trumped up charges. "

422
00:22:49,268 --> 00:22:50,394
And they got
a McMartin's, you know?

423
00:22:50,469 --> 00:22:54,701
They somehow got one kid to,

424
00:22:54,773 --> 00:22:56,798
they got the police to be
able to convince the kids,

425
00:22:56,876 --> 00:22:57,934
"Well, all of your friends
said something happened.

426
00:22:58,010 --> 00:22:59,170
Didn't something happen?

427
00:22:59,245 --> 00:23:01,042
Something must have happened,"
et cetera, et cetera.

428
00:23:01,113 --> 00:23:02,978
And they were convinced.

429
00:23:03,048 --> 00:23:05,209
They kept saying
they were innocent.

430
00:23:06,452 --> 00:23:08,886
And I just kept thinking,

431
00:23:10,389 --> 00:23:12,721
"I have to believe them. "

432
00:23:12,791 --> 00:23:17,990
It's very hard for people to
accept him as a pedophile.

433
00:23:18,063 --> 00:23:21,965
Arnold Friedman was
an award-winning teacher.

434
00:23:22,034 --> 00:23:24,059
All over the house
were plaques

435
00:23:24,136 --> 00:23:27,105
and newspaper articles
written about him.

436
00:23:27,172 --> 00:23:30,369
He had been given an award,
"Computer Teacher of the Year. "

437
00:23:30,442 --> 00:23:32,069
He also taught piano.

438
00:23:36,682 --> 00:23:38,274
David plays beautifully.

439
00:23:38,350 --> 00:23:42,343
And his father taught him
how to play the piano.

440
00:23:44,089 --> 00:23:47,320
It was when he died
that I realized

441
00:23:47,393 --> 00:23:49,827
how much of an impact
he had on my life.

442
00:23:51,664 --> 00:23:52,892
Take a bow.

443
00:23:54,733 --> 00:23:59,261
He was very supportive of my
magic when I was a kid.

444
00:24:03,142 --> 00:24:07,169
When I was about 6, my father
took me to a magic show.

445
00:24:07,246 --> 00:24:10,044
And it's probably
my earliest memory.

446
00:24:11,951 --> 00:24:14,044
You know when your son goes
to college and you say,

447
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,178
"Go to college," and
"What are you going to be?

448
00:24:16,255 --> 00:24:18,655
"Be a doctor. Be a lawyer. "

449
00:24:19,959 --> 00:24:23,918
I tried to make him into
a doctor or a lawyer.

450
00:24:30,536 --> 00:24:32,163
You know, my mom would
always say, you know,

451
00:24:32,237 --> 00:24:33,329
"Get a job. Get a job. "

452
00:24:33,405 --> 00:24:35,873
But my dad would say to me,
"You know, David,

453
00:24:35,941 --> 00:24:37,806
I can't tell you what to do,
because you know what I did

454
00:24:37,876 --> 00:24:39,434
when I got out of college. "

455
00:24:39,511 --> 00:24:41,342
He blew off his chemical
engineering degree,

456
00:24:41,413 --> 00:24:43,472
which he could have worked
for an oil company

457
00:24:43,549 --> 00:24:44,641
and made tons of money.

458
00:24:44,717 --> 00:24:45,843
Instead, he played
in the mountains,

459
00:24:45,918 --> 00:24:47,852
which is a total blow-off,
follow your dream,

460
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:49,581
artistic thing.

461
00:24:49,655 --> 00:24:51,680
And I totally love him for that.

462
00:24:58,397 --> 00:25:01,025
Trust your children to somebody
who was a schoolteacher

463
00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:04,399
for over 20, 30 years,
a member of your community.

464
00:25:04,470 --> 00:25:06,938
All you heard were accolades
about this person,

465
00:25:07,006 --> 00:25:09,236
and now all of a sudden,
he's a monster.

466
00:25:11,176 --> 00:25:14,771
And things that were
being said,

467
00:25:14,847 --> 00:25:17,042
you know, upset the community,

468
00:25:17,116 --> 00:25:18,879
because you don't
expect that here.

469
00:25:26,558 --> 00:25:28,617
Great Neck is a peninsula.

470
00:25:28,694 --> 00:25:31,629
It's a very insulated community.

471
00:25:31,697 --> 00:25:35,758
This was a certain kind of
person that lived in Great Neck.

472
00:25:35,834 --> 00:25:37,267
It's on the North Shore
of Long Island,

473
00:25:37,336 --> 00:25:39,964
which is usually a
predominately wealthy area.

474
00:25:40,039 --> 00:25:43,372
These are wealthy,
professional people

475
00:25:43,442 --> 00:25:46,843
that have garnered a great deal
of income in their lives,

476
00:25:46,912 --> 00:25:48,504
and they live accordingly.

477
00:25:50,649 --> 00:25:52,549
Nice community.

478
00:25:52,618 --> 00:25:53,710
Tight.

479
00:25:53,786 --> 00:25:54,980
Affluent.

480
00:25:56,855 --> 00:25:58,015
Well-kept homes.

481
00:25:58,090 --> 00:25:59,455
They get dressed up
to go shopping.

482
00:25:59,525 --> 00:26:01,049
They want to be sure
they get seen by

483
00:26:01,126 --> 00:26:02,218
the people they want to see,

484
00:26:02,294 --> 00:26:03,556
and cars are important,

485
00:26:03,629 --> 00:26:04,789
clothes are important.

486
00:26:07,666 --> 00:26:09,657
There's a lot of
competition in Great Neck.

487
00:26:09,735 --> 00:26:12,670
Everybody's kid's
a genius and the best,

488
00:26:12,738 --> 00:26:14,399
and everybody's the best
in this and that,

489
00:26:14,473 --> 00:26:16,907
and you just want your
kid to be happy

490
00:26:16,975 --> 00:26:19,967
and to get an array
of experiences.

491
00:26:20,045 --> 00:26:22,479
And this computer class was
one of those experiences.

492
00:26:22,548 --> 00:26:24,015
You thought
you were doing right.

493
00:26:40,766 --> 00:26:43,701
Most of the children
started out explaining

494
00:26:43,769 --> 00:26:47,762
how Mr. Friedman would try
to test them, I think,

495
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,240
in my opinion, as to whether
they'd be receptive

496
00:26:50,309 --> 00:26:51,708
to some of his advances.

497
00:26:51,777 --> 00:26:54,507
There'd be certain showings
on the computer

498
00:26:54,580 --> 00:26:56,980
during computer class
of certain material

499
00:26:57,049 --> 00:26:59,176
that was inappropriate
for children.

500
00:26:59,251 --> 00:27:01,685
If you were going to be
the first one abused

501
00:27:01,753 --> 00:27:02,947
on a particular day,

502
00:27:03,021 --> 00:27:05,251
he would pull up a chair
and sit next to you.

503
00:27:05,324 --> 00:27:08,293
Maybe it would start with his
arm around your shoulder

504
00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:11,557
or on your leg and
gradually move it up,

505
00:27:11,630 --> 00:27:13,325
touching private parts.

506
00:27:14,833 --> 00:27:17,597
And then over the course of time
we developed a situation

507
00:27:17,669 --> 00:27:20,137
where we found out that there
was not only sexual touching

508
00:27:20,205 --> 00:27:24,141
of the genitals, but there
were acts of sodomy,

509
00:27:24,209 --> 00:27:25,506
oral and anal sodomy,

510
00:27:25,577 --> 00:27:28,137
that took place during
the course of the class.

511
00:27:28,213 --> 00:27:30,647
So were the kids abused
in the computer room

512
00:27:30,716 --> 00:27:32,206
in view of everyone else?

513
00:27:32,284 --> 00:27:35,185
From what I saw
in my sessions,

514
00:27:35,254 --> 00:27:37,688
none were raped
out on the floor.

515
00:27:37,756 --> 00:27:41,021
The kids were raped in Jesse's
room or the bathroom.

516
00:27:42,594 --> 00:27:43,993
Just to change the subject
for a second,

517
00:27:44,062 --> 00:27:47,327
there were these sexual
computer games

518
00:27:47,399 --> 00:27:50,163
that were discussed during
the course of the case.

519
00:27:50,235 --> 00:27:53,329
We'd basically do
the games where

520
00:27:53,405 --> 00:27:56,340
there would be naked girls
and everything

521
00:27:56,408 --> 00:27:58,171
in the computer class.

522
00:27:58,243 --> 00:28:00,507
But I remember one time I
slipped one of the games out,

523
00:28:00,579 --> 00:28:01,739
and I brought it home
and everything,

524
00:28:01,813 --> 00:28:03,610
and I copied it,
and Arnold found out.

525
00:28:03,682 --> 00:28:05,115
Because of that, I was raped

526
00:28:05,184 --> 00:28:08,278
by him and Jesse at the same
time, as punishment to that.

527
00:28:08,353 --> 00:28:09,445
I never did it again.

528
00:28:09,521 --> 00:28:11,079
He made me format it.
I formatted it.

529
00:28:11,156 --> 00:28:12,555
I had to bring my computer
in and show him

530
00:28:12,624 --> 00:28:14,592
that I hadn't brought it home.

531
00:28:14,660 --> 00:28:17,629
So he was absolutely positive,
100%, that it was not

532
00:28:17,696 --> 00:28:21,132
touched at all in any way,
form, shape whatsoever.

533
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,862
And how did he know that
you brought it home?

534
00:28:25,971 --> 00:28:29,532
He accounted for
all the disks that were there.

535
00:28:29,608 --> 00:28:30,973
And since he flipped
through, he's like,

536
00:28:31,043 --> 00:28:33,944
"Who the fuck took this? Tell me
now, or I'm gonna kill you all!"

537
00:28:34,012 --> 00:28:35,775
And he had a knife, and he
was waving a knife around.

538
00:28:35,847 --> 00:28:37,508
I was like, "I did it!"

539
00:28:40,652 --> 00:28:43,177
My general recollection
of the classes

540
00:28:43,255 --> 00:28:46,281
is basically a positive one,
is a pleasant one.

541
00:28:46,358 --> 00:28:48,451
The types of behaviors
which were described,

542
00:28:48,527 --> 00:28:52,861
which were, well, just
downright satanic in nature.

543
00:28:52,931 --> 00:28:55,923
I mean, they make him sound like
some kind of brutal sadist,

544
00:28:56,001 --> 00:28:58,367
whereas, you know, I had just
always thought of him

545
00:28:58,437 --> 00:29:01,463
as being kind of a nebbish.

546
00:29:01,540 --> 00:29:03,405
I think, as someone
who took the classes,

547
00:29:03,475 --> 00:29:05,807
it was just hard to picture
even that going on,

548
00:29:05,877 --> 00:29:07,105
because I did have
a good experience.

549
00:29:07,179 --> 00:29:09,147
And I didn't, you know,
see anything, you know,

550
00:29:09,214 --> 00:29:10,408
remotely like,

551
00:29:12,050 --> 00:29:13,847
you know, like child
molestation

552
00:29:13,919 --> 00:29:17,150
or child abuse or any
child anything going on.

553
00:29:17,222 --> 00:29:19,213
What took place in
Arnold's classes

554
00:29:19,291 --> 00:29:22,158
was pretty much just
straight computer lessons.

555
00:29:22,227 --> 00:29:24,058
I mean, as ordinary
and as boring

556
00:29:24,129 --> 00:29:26,359
as you could
possibly imagine it.

557
00:29:26,431 --> 00:29:29,298
It was just generally
a free-for-all.

558
00:29:29,368 --> 00:29:33,532
Everybody could see
what was going on,

559
00:29:33,605 --> 00:29:35,334
and very often they
would participate

560
00:29:35,407 --> 00:29:40,367
in these sort of mass games
in the classroom.

561
00:29:40,445 --> 00:29:43,209
There was a game there
that was called "Leapfrog. "

562
00:29:43,282 --> 00:29:45,614
And this one really got to me.

563
00:29:45,684 --> 00:29:49,518
They would play
leapfrog in the class.

564
00:29:49,588 --> 00:29:50,885
They'd actually have
their clothes off.

565
00:29:50,956 --> 00:29:55,450
And we associate leapfrog like
you do when you were a kid,

566
00:29:55,527 --> 00:29:57,791
one guy jumping over another
guy, but the fact is

567
00:29:57,863 --> 00:30:00,627
it means everybody's butt's
up in the air, so to speak.

568
00:30:00,699 --> 00:30:05,033
The very nature of these
charges is so absurd.

569
00:30:05,103 --> 00:30:08,834
It seems almost like some
kind of grotesque fantasy.

570
00:30:10,075 --> 00:30:11,235
Yeah. Leapfrog.

571
00:30:11,310 --> 00:30:13,039
I remember about that.

572
00:30:14,446 --> 00:30:21,010
It's kind of like Twister,
where we would have to sit down.

573
00:30:21,086 --> 00:30:22,815
Our asses would be in the air.

574
00:30:22,888 --> 00:30:25,721
Arnold and Jesse would leap
from one person to another,

575
00:30:25,791 --> 00:30:28,919
sticking their dick
each in our ass.

576
00:30:28,994 --> 00:30:30,859
But then I was confused,
because you said that

577
00:30:30,929 --> 00:30:33,727
no kids were raped
in the computer room.

578
00:30:33,799 --> 00:30:36,427
The leapfrog game, which
was not molestation,

579
00:30:36,501 --> 00:30:38,992
was a leapfrog game, was not
considered molestation,

580
00:30:39,071 --> 00:30:40,333
was done outside.

581
00:30:40,405 --> 00:30:43,340
But that was a group game.

582
00:30:43,408 --> 00:30:46,206
The actual molestation,
one-on-one contact,

583
00:30:46,278 --> 00:30:47,677
happened in the bathroom.

584
00:30:47,746 --> 00:30:49,304
The game happened
out on the floor.

585
00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:52,783
One of the things,
you sit down there,

586
00:30:52,851 --> 00:30:55,581
and I know I, you know, think
about this, and you know,

587
00:30:55,654 --> 00:31:00,250
"How could this go on
in this home for so long

588
00:31:00,325 --> 00:31:03,089
and not be,
you know, come out?"

589
00:31:03,161 --> 00:31:08,428
But, you know,
that wasn't my province.

590
00:31:08,500 --> 00:31:11,560
That wasn't what I had to decide
or the judge had to decide.

591
00:31:11,636 --> 00:31:13,627
You know, that's up to someone
else to decide that.

592
00:31:13,705 --> 00:31:16,071
But if I recall, you know,
the children were

593
00:31:16,141 --> 00:31:17,665
pretty vivid in their
recollections

594
00:31:17,743 --> 00:31:21,679
as to what Arnold
and/or Jesse did to them.

595
00:31:21,747 --> 00:31:23,476
And Judge Boklan,
she's you know,

596
00:31:23,548 --> 00:31:25,539
a pretty strong-willed judge.

597
00:31:25,617 --> 00:31:29,075
And she's pretty unmovable
when she makes her decision.

598
00:31:29,154 --> 00:31:34,490
There was never a doubt in
my mind as to their guilt.

599
00:31:34,559 --> 00:31:36,117
And remember, I'd been
around for a while.

600
00:31:36,194 --> 00:31:39,561
This wasn't, you know, the first
sex case that I had ever seen.

601
00:31:39,631 --> 00:31:42,225
In fact, my previous law
secretary used to tease me

602
00:31:42,300 --> 00:31:43,858
that we were the pervert part.

603
00:31:43,935 --> 00:31:48,804
And having been, you know, head
of the Sex Crimes Unit myself,

604
00:31:48,874 --> 00:31:51,069
where, you know, I had young
boys who were sodomized,

605
00:31:51,143 --> 00:31:53,077
in fact, one who
killed himself

606
00:31:53,145 --> 00:31:56,512
you know, after the sentence
of the abuser.

607
00:31:56,581 --> 00:31:58,515
I mean, some horrible
experiences.

608
00:31:58,583 --> 00:32:01,347
So for me to be so outraged,

609
00:32:01,420 --> 00:32:04,321
I mean, this was really
very, very bad

610
00:32:04,389 --> 00:32:05,947
what was going on there.

611
00:32:06,024 --> 00:32:07,514
It was like someone's
worst nightmare.

612
00:32:07,592 --> 00:32:10,652
Who would even think
of doing these things?

613
00:32:10,729 --> 00:32:15,666
And to do them in a group
and with so many witnesses.

614
00:32:15,734 --> 00:32:19,397
The scenario, as posted by
the media and the police

615
00:32:19,471 --> 00:32:23,100
was so incredibly way out,

616
00:32:23,175 --> 00:32:26,235
it was hard for me to
believe that it was true.

617
00:32:26,311 --> 00:32:29,644
We now welcome, also in
Los Angeles, Debbie Nathan.

618
00:32:29,714 --> 00:32:31,773
Debbie is an investigative
freelance journalist,

619
00:32:31,850 --> 00:32:33,750
who has been covering
the McMartin and other

620
00:32:33,819 --> 00:32:35,787
abuse trials around the country.

621
00:32:35,854 --> 00:32:38,049
All these parents
are bizarro, huh?

622
00:32:38,123 --> 00:32:39,488
They're all whacked?

623
00:32:39,558 --> 00:32:41,992
Well, it's not really fair,
I don't think

624
00:32:42,060 --> 00:32:43,823
to deal simply with
these parents

625
00:32:43,895 --> 00:32:45,123
or with this particular case.

626
00:32:45,197 --> 00:32:47,256
You have to understand that
all over the country

627
00:32:47,332 --> 00:32:48,765
there is a hysteria.

628
00:32:48,834 --> 00:32:50,699
And I don't think that
it's a question

629
00:32:50,769 --> 00:32:52,236
with most of these
kids of lying.

630
00:32:52,304 --> 00:32:56,604
I think that they have been
brainwashed, if you will.

631
00:32:56,675 --> 00:32:59,303
I was one of the first writers
for the mass media

632
00:32:59,377 --> 00:33:02,005
to look at those cases
critically and question them.

633
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,208
So as a result of that, having
done a lot of that work,

634
00:33:05,283 --> 00:33:07,080
I got a lot of letters
from people.

635
00:33:07,152 --> 00:33:11,054
And my father wrote to Debbie
and said, I don't know,

636
00:33:11,122 --> 00:33:12,521
said, "Help me. "

637
00:33:12,591 --> 00:33:15,025
And she has been the only
person outside the family

638
00:33:15,093 --> 00:33:18,529
that said, "I believe you. "

639
00:33:19,764 --> 00:33:21,026
In the Friedman case,

640
00:33:21,099 --> 00:33:24,068
the basic charges were
completely implausible.

641
00:33:24,135 --> 00:33:26,626
First of all, you'd have
to believe that blood

642
00:33:26,705 --> 00:33:28,673
is coming out of these
children's orifices,

643
00:33:28,740 --> 00:33:29,832
that they're screaming,

644
00:33:29,908 --> 00:33:31,842
that they're crying,

645
00:33:31,910 --> 00:33:36,813
that their clothes are soiled
from semen and from blood.

646
00:33:36,882 --> 00:33:38,782
And yet their parents show up.

647
00:33:38,850 --> 00:33:40,511
Sometimes they show up
unannounced.

648
00:33:40,585 --> 00:33:41,950
Everything looks fine.

649
00:33:42,020 --> 00:33:45,615
Was there any physical evidence
in the case that was relevant?

650
00:33:45,690 --> 00:33:48,784
Or it was the case
really strictly based on

651
00:33:48,860 --> 00:33:50,020
the statements of the kids?

652
00:33:50,095 --> 00:33:51,289
It was more testimony.

653
00:33:51,363 --> 00:33:53,661
There was a dearth
of physical evidence.

654
00:33:53,732 --> 00:33:55,962
I don't even recall
whether there was

655
00:33:56,034 --> 00:33:57,899
any physical evidence that
would have indicated

656
00:33:57,969 --> 00:34:00,961
one way or another that
these events took place.

657
00:34:01,039 --> 00:34:04,770
I don't think that they're
sitting around with any kind

658
00:34:04,843 --> 00:34:07,403
of diabolical or
conspiratorial agenda

659
00:34:07,479 --> 00:34:10,471
to go out and falsely
accuse Arnold Friedman

660
00:34:10,549 --> 00:34:12,449
or railroad Jesse Friedman.

661
00:34:12,517 --> 00:34:14,883
But nobody's critiquing them.

662
00:34:14,953 --> 00:34:17,012
Nobody's telling them that
there's a right way

663
00:34:17,088 --> 00:34:18,555
and a wrong way to do this.

664
00:34:18,623 --> 00:34:21,251
Nobody's saying that we've got
a problem in this culture

665
00:34:21,326 --> 00:34:23,419
with hysteria around this issue.

666
00:34:23,495 --> 00:34:28,660
And so they're really free
to let their fantasies fly.

667
00:34:28,733 --> 00:34:30,462
I think the most
overwhelming thing was

668
00:34:30,535 --> 00:34:34,096
the enormous amount
of child pornography.

669
00:34:34,172 --> 00:34:35,833
You would just have to walk
into the living room,

670
00:34:35,907 --> 00:34:38,068
and it'd be piled
around the piano.

671
00:34:38,143 --> 00:34:41,909
There were literally foot-high
stacks of pornography,

672
00:34:41,980 --> 00:34:45,416
in plain view,
all around the house.

673
00:34:46,518 --> 00:34:48,349
But photos taken
during the search

674
00:34:48,420 --> 00:34:49,978
showed nothing of the kind.

675
00:34:55,627 --> 00:34:58,061
But as far as the families were
concerned, I don't want to

676
00:34:58,129 --> 00:35:00,029
use the word that they were
competitive with each other.

677
00:35:00,098 --> 00:35:02,931
I don't know if it's
to that extent.

678
00:35:03,001 --> 00:35:05,094
You know, sometimes it'd be some
idle conversation about,

679
00:35:05,170 --> 00:35:08,435
you know, another boy, you know,
"He was sodomized 5 times,

680
00:35:08,506 --> 00:35:11,566
but my son was sodomized
6 times," you know,

681
00:35:11,643 --> 00:35:14,544
as if that meant something in
the overall scheme of things.

682
00:35:14,613 --> 00:35:17,138
There's a whole community
atmosphere that gets created

683
00:35:17,215 --> 00:35:19,240
in a mass-abuse case
like this,

684
00:35:19,317 --> 00:35:22,047
where the families are
talking to each other,

685
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:23,212
they're going to
community meetings,

686
00:35:23,288 --> 00:35:24,983
or they're calling on
the phone all the time.

687
00:35:25,056 --> 00:35:26,819
They're seeing each other
in group therapy.

688
00:35:26,891 --> 00:35:30,292
And there is definitely
an element when a community

689
00:35:30,362 --> 00:35:32,523
defines itself as
a victimized community,

690
00:35:32,597 --> 00:35:34,224
that if you're not victimized

691
00:35:34,299 --> 00:35:36,062
you don't fit into
that community.

692
00:35:36,134 --> 00:35:39,535
The families that had
their child molested

693
00:35:39,604 --> 00:35:43,005
or allegedly molested
became very involved

694
00:35:43,074 --> 00:35:47,443
and took a greater part
of their life at that point.

695
00:35:47,512 --> 00:35:49,309
I appreciated their call
in the beginning

696
00:35:49,381 --> 00:35:50,871
telling me what happened.

697
00:35:50,949 --> 00:35:53,110
And then when I told them
that we looked into it

698
00:35:53,184 --> 00:35:56,984
and my wife and I both felt that
nothing happened to our son,

699
00:35:57,055 --> 00:36:00,047
it got to be a little pushy
situation where they told us

700
00:36:00,125 --> 00:36:03,822
that we were in denial, and it
absolutely happened to our son.

701
00:36:30,488 --> 00:36:31,819
You fucking bitch!

702
00:36:31,890 --> 00:36:33,050
I'm gonna kill you!

703
00:36:33,124 --> 00:36:35,922
When Jesse gets out of jail,
he's a dead motherfucker.

704
00:36:35,994 --> 00:36:38,929
When Arnold gets out of jail,
he's a dead motherfucker.

705
00:36:38,997 --> 00:36:42,228
Fuck you! I'll fuck
your whole family!

706
00:36:46,638 --> 00:36:49,664
Is there any one word or
phrase that you could use

707
00:36:49,741 --> 00:36:52,904
to describe that
experience overall?

708
00:36:59,784 --> 00:37:01,581
Chaos. Hysteria.

709
00:37:01,653 --> 00:37:04,087
It was really crazy.

710
00:37:04,155 --> 00:37:05,315
Am I dreaming?

711
00:37:05,390 --> 00:37:06,482
Is this a nightmare?

712
00:37:06,558 --> 00:37:09,186
This can't be happening
to my family.

713
00:37:09,260 --> 00:37:10,784
My brother?

714
00:37:15,533 --> 00:37:18,627
And a day doesn't go by
that I don't think of it.

715
00:37:19,904 --> 00:37:22,338
It destroyed my family.

716
00:37:22,407 --> 00:37:23,999
It tore us apart.

717
00:37:25,376 --> 00:37:27,276
I don't know.

718
00:37:27,345 --> 00:37:29,609
I can't say too much about it.

719
00:37:29,681 --> 00:37:31,672
We were a family.

720
00:38:22,233 --> 00:38:23,996
Mommy believes you did it

721
00:38:24,068 --> 00:38:25,365
and she believes you
should go to jail,

722
00:38:25,436 --> 00:38:27,199
and she believes that she
deserves everything

723
00:38:27,272 --> 00:38:29,035
that's left and you shouldn't
have any part of it.

724
00:38:29,107 --> 00:38:30,540
You have to hire
another lawyer?

725
00:38:30,608 --> 00:38:33,406
All this woman does
is hire lawyers.

726
00:38:33,478 --> 00:38:37,471
I honestly have to tell you,
anything that she decides

727
00:38:37,549 --> 00:38:39,016
I can't trust.

728
00:38:39,083 --> 00:38:41,415
She runs around, "Arnie,
they don't trust me. "

729
00:38:41,486 --> 00:38:42,783
Well, we don't trust her.

730
00:38:42,854 --> 00:38:45,789
We lived with her for 3, for 2
months while you were in jail,

731
00:38:45,857 --> 00:38:48,257
and we learned not to trust her.

732
00:38:48,326 --> 00:38:52,194
David had just gotten a video
camera when this case broke,

733
00:38:52,263 --> 00:38:55,960
and so he just started recording
the family falling apart.

734
00:39:00,738 --> 00:39:03,206
And Mommy believes them,
and I don't.

735
00:39:04,209 --> 00:39:05,676
I tell them to get lost,

736
00:39:05,743 --> 00:39:07,802
and Mommy says, "You're right. "

737
00:39:07,879 --> 00:39:10,370
And "I've lived with him
for all my life. "

738
00:39:10,448 --> 00:39:12,439
And "Look at all these horrible
things he's done for me

739
00:39:12,517 --> 00:39:14,849
over 30 years," which
amounts to nothing,

740
00:39:14,919 --> 00:39:17,479
except this.

741
00:39:17,555 --> 00:39:19,853
At some point, David
making the videotapes

742
00:39:19,924 --> 00:39:25,385
kind of springboarded to my
thoughts about audiotape.

743
00:39:25,463 --> 00:39:28,489
And I began to make
audio recordings

744
00:39:28,566 --> 00:39:30,659
of these family arguments.

745
00:40:04,002 --> 00:40:05,401
Don't scream.

746
00:40:13,144 --> 00:40:16,341
The family was screaming
at each other.

747
00:40:16,414 --> 00:40:19,281
And everyone wanted me
to say, "He didn't do it. "

748
00:40:19,350 --> 00:40:21,284
Well, I wouldn't do that.

749
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,647
I said, "I don't know. "

750
00:40:24,722 --> 00:40:27,714
They wanted me
just to lie, you know,

751
00:40:27,792 --> 00:40:30,488
and say, "He didn't do it,"
whether I believed it or not.

752
00:40:30,561 --> 00:40:35,191
And I was so angry at Arnold
and what he'd done

753
00:40:35,266 --> 00:40:38,099
that I wouldn't do it, and I
said, "Well, I don't know. "

754
00:40:38,169 --> 00:40:40,694
And I wanted just
to tell the truth.

755
00:40:40,772 --> 00:40:43,070
That is the truth.
I didn't know.

756
00:40:43,141 --> 00:40:47,271
My mother abandoned
him, pretty much,

757
00:40:47,345 --> 00:40:49,939
wouldn't talk to him, fought
with him constantly,

758
00:40:50,014 --> 00:40:51,538
made him sleep on the sofa.

759
00:40:51,616 --> 00:40:54,517
And after 33 years of
marriage, when your wife,

760
00:40:54,585 --> 00:40:57,884
when you've been accused of
a crime you didn't commit,

761
00:40:57,956 --> 00:41:00,982
you spend 6 weeks in
jail for it,

762
00:41:01,059 --> 00:41:03,755
you're trying to build
a defense,

763
00:41:03,828 --> 00:41:06,888
and your wife leaves you,
essentially,

764
00:41:06,965 --> 00:41:09,058
my father fell apart.

765
00:41:09,534 --> 00:41:13,026
You yelled and screamed about
what, that you ruined her life.

766
00:41:13,104 --> 00:41:14,731
She's brainwashed you.
You didn't do anything.

767
00:41:14,806 --> 00:41:16,865
The police have done it to you.

768
00:41:16,941 --> 00:41:18,306
It's not your fault.

769
00:41:18,376 --> 00:41:21,641
The police are
railroading you.

770
00:41:23,915 --> 00:41:25,177
But it's not your fault.

771
00:41:25,249 --> 00:41:26,409
Mommy doesn't believe you.

772
00:41:26,484 --> 00:41:27,917
The police picked on you,

773
00:41:27,986 --> 00:41:29,851
and that's who
they're going after.

774
00:41:29,921 --> 00:41:31,752
It's not because
you deserved it.

775
00:41:33,358 --> 00:41:35,019
You're taking the blame,
and you don't deserve the blame.

776
00:41:35,093 --> 00:41:37,755
She's brainwashing you into
thinking that it's your fault,

777
00:41:37,829 --> 00:41:39,091
and it's not your fault.

778
00:41:39,163 --> 00:41:41,063
She thinks he did it.

779
00:41:41,132 --> 00:41:42,895
And if he did it,
then she thinks

780
00:41:42,967 --> 00:41:44,093
he's going to be
convicted of it.

781
00:41:44,168 --> 00:41:46,466
And if he's convicted of it,
he's going to go away.

782
00:41:46,537 --> 00:41:48,903
Yeah, but if, let's say he
goes away for 10 years.

783
00:41:48,973 --> 00:41:50,270
He's still gonna come out.

784
00:41:50,341 --> 00:41:52,275
No, I'm talking about 50 years.
I'm talking about 100 years.

785
00:41:52,343 --> 00:41:54,811
She doesn't think
he's getting 50 years.

786
00:41:54,879 --> 00:41:57,006
I don't think she thinks that
he's going to get 50 years.

787
00:41:57,081 --> 00:41:58,173
OK, so what is he gonna get?
Twenty years?

788
00:41:58,249 --> 00:41:59,511
That's 50 years.

789
00:41:59,584 --> 00:42:01,017
What's the difference, well,

790
00:42:01,085 --> 00:42:03,815
If he goes to a state
institution on state charges,

791
00:42:03,888 --> 00:42:05,253
you know he's not coming back.

792
00:42:18,169 --> 00:42:20,262
In this case, there was
consultations

793
00:42:20,338 --> 00:42:23,830
between both sides, the District
Attorney's Office,

794
00:42:23,908 --> 00:42:25,500
the families,
the defense attorneys,

795
00:42:25,576 --> 00:42:27,874
as to what to do with
Arnold Friedman.

796
00:42:27,945 --> 00:42:31,472
We were trying to maintain
a sense of normalcy

797
00:42:31,549 --> 00:42:36,282
in terms of having dinner
and paying the bills,

798
00:42:36,354 --> 00:42:38,686
but it was almost surreal.

799
00:42:38,756 --> 00:42:41,953
I mean, I don't think
any of us had any notion

800
00:42:42,026 --> 00:42:44,688
of what was going on
or what we were doing

801
00:42:44,762 --> 00:42:46,855
or where any of this
was leading.

802
00:42:47,999 --> 00:42:50,900
Sir, would you like to
comment on the situation?

803
00:42:50,968 --> 00:42:54,028
Yes, I think this is a kitchen.

804
00:42:54,105 --> 00:42:55,902
I thought it was only
going to last a year

805
00:42:55,973 --> 00:42:59,841
and that we would look back
and laugh about how

806
00:42:59,911 --> 00:43:01,936
crazy we were and how we didn't
know what we were doing

807
00:43:02,013 --> 00:43:04,174
and just sort of laugh.

808
00:43:06,284 --> 00:43:09,344
What do you want?
My nose? My teeth?

809
00:43:09,420 --> 00:43:10,819
Wait a minute. There it is.

810
00:43:10,888 --> 00:43:13,118
- There's your nose.
- Oh that's great.

811
00:43:13,191 --> 00:43:15,682
I feel like I'm
being dissected here.

812
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:20,322
And here's Mommy and Daddy

813
00:43:20,398 --> 00:43:23,799
in a rare moment of affection.

814
00:43:23,868 --> 00:43:25,460
What's the matter?

815
00:43:29,540 --> 00:43:30,905
- Why?
- Why?

816
00:43:30,975 --> 00:43:32,169
Why not?

817
00:43:34,412 --> 00:43:35,879
That's not all.

818
00:43:35,947 --> 00:43:37,244
You've gotten other things.

819
00:43:38,783 --> 00:43:40,717
Lately but not all.

820
00:43:41,886 --> 00:43:44,548
You're the one

821
00:43:44,622 --> 00:43:49,719
Who's stolen
my heart, dear

822
00:43:49,794 --> 00:43:54,197
I think I was the first woman
that he ever really dated.

823
00:43:54,265 --> 00:43:56,529
And he was very reluctant
to get married.

824
00:43:56,601 --> 00:44:00,298
I sort of said, "We've got
to do this," you know.

825
00:44:00,371 --> 00:44:02,271
I could be very

826
00:44:02,340 --> 00:44:05,332
So he says, "Well, all right. "

827
00:44:05,409 --> 00:44:07,673
Big mistake.

828
00:44:11,749 --> 00:44:13,239
We were delighted.

829
00:44:13,317 --> 00:44:15,410
She was effervescent, pretty.

830
00:44:15,486 --> 00:44:17,351
They seemed to be
very much in love.

831
00:44:17,421 --> 00:44:19,685
They seemed to be
very compatible.

832
00:44:19,757 --> 00:44:21,486
It had been a long
time in coming.

833
00:44:21,559 --> 00:44:23,652
My mother, "You're my oldest!

834
00:44:23,728 --> 00:44:25,923
Get married! I want
a grandchild," you know.

835
00:44:25,997 --> 00:44:30,764
My mother is sexually ignorant.

836
00:44:30,835 --> 00:44:33,599
As far as I'm concerned, she had
sex, I mean everyone thinks

837
00:44:33,671 --> 00:44:34,797
their parents only
had sex 3 times,

838
00:44:34,872 --> 00:44:36,863
you know for each
of their siblings.

839
00:44:36,941 --> 00:44:39,273
But with my mother,
I think it was true.

840
00:44:39,343 --> 00:44:42,938
And it was like, you know,
you read in a book

841
00:44:43,014 --> 00:44:44,982
how do you have sex,
and you start here,

842
00:44:45,049 --> 00:44:47,984
and then you do step 1,
step 2, step 3.

843
00:44:48,052 --> 00:44:52,045
And that's somewhat like what
sex was like with Arnold,

844
00:44:52,123 --> 00:44:55,718
Because I used to say to him,

845
00:44:55,793 --> 00:44:58,091
"It's called foreplay.

846
00:44:58,162 --> 00:44:59,754
It's supposed to be play.

847
00:44:59,830 --> 00:45:02,230
It's supposed to be fun. "

848
00:45:02,300 --> 00:45:05,133
And he treated it like work.

849
00:45:05,203 --> 00:45:08,764
Like this is what you're
supposed to do when you do it,

850
00:45:08,839 --> 00:45:10,864
like washing the dishes.

851
00:45:12,343 --> 00:45:14,538
If he was so much in the closet
and not living with her

852
00:45:14,612 --> 00:45:16,773
and not attracted,
where was she for 30 years?

853
00:45:16,847 --> 00:45:19,748
Why didn't she say, "Honey,
you're not having sex with me.

854
00:45:19,817 --> 00:45:21,148
I think I want a divorce. "

855
00:45:21,219 --> 00:45:22,311
Where was she?

856
00:45:22,386 --> 00:45:23,614
I don't think that's the case.

857
00:45:23,688 --> 00:45:26,020
Either they're
both crazy,

858
00:45:26,090 --> 00:45:27,284
which is a possibility,

859
00:45:27,358 --> 00:45:28,916
or

860
00:45:31,929 --> 00:45:34,227
or he was perfectly normal,

861
00:45:34,298 --> 00:45:37,825
based according to, you
know, by her standards.

862
00:45:37,902 --> 00:45:44,535
You're the one for me

863
00:45:45,643 --> 00:45:49,977
It was a difficult marriage
because of Elaine.

864
00:45:50,047 --> 00:45:54,882
She had her problems, and it
took a monumental amount

865
00:45:54,952 --> 00:45:59,082
of patience and love
and caring to handle it.

866
00:45:59,156 --> 00:46:00,714
It wasn't easy for him.

867
00:46:00,791 --> 00:46:02,850
It wasn't easy for the kids.

868
00:46:04,028 --> 00:46:07,259
But they were able
to live with it.

869
00:46:07,331 --> 00:46:09,265
She was the best mother
she knew how.

870
00:46:09,333 --> 00:46:11,392
She loved her kids,
and she loved her husband.

871
00:46:11,469 --> 00:46:13,528
She wasn't the warmest,

872
00:46:13,604 --> 00:46:15,936
most outgoing human being
in the world.

873
00:46:17,375 --> 00:46:24,178
When I had the first child,
I was just ecstatic,

874
00:46:24,248 --> 00:46:28,912
but I didn't know
how to do it.

875
00:46:30,321 --> 00:46:35,657
And I wasn't the most

876
00:46:38,129 --> 00:46:40,120
well-balanced person myself.

877
00:46:40,197 --> 00:46:43,997
You know, we all have
hang-ups, and

878
00:46:44,068 --> 00:46:46,730
that's my hang-up.

879
00:46:46,804 --> 00:46:49,705
Good things can never
happen to me, only bad.

880
00:46:53,377 --> 00:46:55,572
That's all the snapshots.

881
00:46:55,646 --> 00:46:56,840
I know.

882
00:46:56,914 --> 00:46:58,313
This whole thing is
all the snapshots.

883
00:46:58,382 --> 00:46:59,815
Did they go and they
looked through each one?

884
00:47:00,818 --> 00:47:01,910
They must have.

885
00:47:01,986 --> 00:47:05,080
This is ancient film.

886
00:47:06,490 --> 00:47:07,684
Holy shit.

887
00:47:07,758 --> 00:47:09,589
- Dad, what is it?
- Oh, my God, it's amazing.

888
00:47:09,660 --> 00:47:11,355
How did you get this?
This is great.

889
00:47:11,429 --> 00:47:12,657
- This is my Dad's.
- Who took it?

890
00:47:12,730 --> 00:47:13,924
My father.

891
00:47:13,998 --> 00:47:15,590
Dad, what's that a film of?

892
00:47:15,666 --> 00:47:17,657
This is a film of my sister.

893
00:47:39,290 --> 00:47:41,451
I had a sister.

894
00:47:41,525 --> 00:47:43,959
She died a year
before I was born.

895
00:47:45,363 --> 00:47:48,025
My brother knew her when
he was young, of course.

896
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:50,963
And she died of blood poisoning.

897
00:47:51,035 --> 00:47:53,333
It was a horrible,
terrible, sudden death.

898
00:47:53,404 --> 00:47:57,101
And it destroyed the family.

899
00:47:57,174 --> 00:47:59,574
Arnold's parents divorced.

900
00:48:02,913 --> 00:48:06,076
So Arnold's mother
had these two boys,

901
00:48:06,150 --> 00:48:09,984
and they were really on
welfare. I don't know.

902
00:48:10,054 --> 00:48:13,387
They lived in
a basement apartment.

903
00:48:13,457 --> 00:48:16,949
Evidently, there
was one bedroom,

904
00:48:17,027 --> 00:48:21,896
and the boys slept in
the bedroom with the mother.

905
00:48:21,966 --> 00:48:25,026
We shared, all 3 of us,
not in the same bed,

906
00:48:25,102 --> 00:48:27,662
but we all shared
the same room, big rooms.

907
00:48:27,738 --> 00:48:30,206
And rather than put a,
apparently

908
00:48:30,274 --> 00:48:32,265
the living room
was the living room,

909
00:48:32,343 --> 00:48:33,571
and then there was
the kitchen,

910
00:48:33,644 --> 00:48:36,112
so we put all the beds
in the one room.

911
00:48:36,180 --> 00:48:41,777
And that she dated a lot of men
and would bring the men

912
00:48:41,852 --> 00:48:48,052
into the apartment, and they
would have sex in the bed

913
00:48:48,125 --> 00:48:52,960
while Arnold was
there listening.

914
00:48:53,030 --> 00:48:57,524
And Arnold said that,
because he saw his mother

915
00:48:57,601 --> 00:49:01,970
in bed with a man, that
when he was adolescent,

916
00:49:02,039 --> 00:49:05,008
he was experimenting,
as all children do,

917
00:49:05,075 --> 00:49:10,479
and he had sex with his brother
in bed or something like that.

918
00:49:10,548 --> 00:49:12,948
And to me,

919
00:49:13,017 --> 00:49:15,850
that's not what all children do.

920
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,889
Arnold sent me this right around
when he started writing me,

921
00:49:18,956 --> 00:49:21,925
and it's called "My Story,"
and it was written in 1988.

922
00:49:21,992 --> 00:49:25,257
And I think it was his attempt
to talk about the case

923
00:49:25,329 --> 00:49:28,298
but also talk about the case
in the context of his life.

924
00:49:28,365 --> 00:49:29,798
And it starts out, it says,

925
00:49:29,867 --> 00:49:33,234
"This story goes back 50 years
to when I was a child. "

926
00:49:33,304 --> 00:49:34,896
He says, "When I
reached adolescence

927
00:49:34,972 --> 00:49:38,499
I sought out partners for
my emerging sexuality.

928
00:49:38,576 --> 00:49:41,841
My first partner, when I was
13, was my 8-year-old brother.

929
00:49:41,912 --> 00:49:44,472
I had overt sexual
relations with him

930
00:49:44,548 --> 00:49:46,311
over a period of a few years. "

931
00:49:47,985 --> 00:49:51,011
I know that my brother has said
that he messed around with me

932
00:49:51,088 --> 00:49:52,248
when I was a kid.

933
00:49:52,323 --> 00:49:54,188
And I don't remember any of it.

934
00:49:54,258 --> 00:49:55,725
I don't remember anything.

935
00:49:57,094 --> 00:50:00,188
I have nothing up here

936
00:50:00,264 --> 00:50:02,630
that has me yelling or
screaming or crying

937
00:50:02,700 --> 00:50:05,999
or trying to get away
or unhappy or I

938
00:50:06,070 --> 00:50:07,697
there's nothing there that.

939
00:50:10,307 --> 00:50:12,571
Maybe someday a door
will open,

940
00:50:12,643 --> 00:50:15,771
but it better hurry up,
because I'm 65.

941
00:50:15,846 --> 00:50:18,838
And at this point in time,
I could care less.

942
00:50:18,916 --> 00:50:21,350
Then he goes on and says,
"My next partners were boys

943
00:50:21,418 --> 00:50:24,683
my own age, all of which
sexual relations,

944
00:50:24,755 --> 00:50:27,485
probably being within
norms for my age.

945
00:50:27,558 --> 00:50:30,220
However, the emotional
impact of these relations

946
00:50:30,294 --> 00:50:33,627
was very pronounced and
lasted through my adult life.

947
00:50:33,697 --> 00:50:36,757
A more normal situation,
as probably happened

948
00:50:36,834 --> 00:50:38,859
with my partners, would
have been to outgrow

949
00:50:38,936 --> 00:50:41,131
and forget these episodes.

950
00:50:41,205 --> 00:50:43,730
However, I literally fell
in love with these boys,

951
00:50:43,807 --> 00:50:46,139
and the relations were far
more significant to me

952
00:50:46,210 --> 00:50:48,303
than they were to my partners. "

953
00:50:48,379 --> 00:50:52,213
And then he told me that when he
got to be an older teenager,

954
00:50:52,283 --> 00:50:54,979
like maybe in his late teens,
he started worrying

955
00:50:55,052 --> 00:50:57,543
that he was still attracted to
kids that were the same age

956
00:50:57,621 --> 00:51:00,215
as his brother had been
when Arnold was 13,

957
00:51:00,291 --> 00:51:02,623
and that really started
bothering him.

958
00:51:02,693 --> 00:51:05,856
And then after he had his own
children, he was worried.

959
00:51:05,930 --> 00:51:07,830
He started worrying that
maybe he would molest

960
00:51:07,898 --> 00:51:08,990
his own children.

961
00:51:09,066 --> 00:51:11,057
And at that point,
he went to therapy,

962
00:51:11,135 --> 00:51:13,000
and the therapist told him,
"No, don't worry.

963
00:51:13,070 --> 00:51:14,628
You've got everything
under control. "

964
00:51:18,142 --> 00:51:21,043
The Jazzbo Mambo
with the boogie beat

965
00:51:21,111 --> 00:51:24,137
is the newest dance
on 52nd Street

966
00:51:24,214 --> 00:51:27,274
All the cats come running
from both near and far

967
00:51:27,351 --> 00:51:30,582
to do the Jazzbo Mambo
8 to the bar

968
00:51:31,989 --> 00:51:35,618
Come on, Light Fingers!

969
00:51:35,693 --> 00:51:37,991
Light Fingers, come on!

970
00:51:44,735 --> 00:51:46,794
Jazzbo Mambo

971
00:51:48,172 --> 00:51:49,969
Jazzbo Mambo

972
00:51:51,075 --> 00:52:00,848
Jazzbo Mambo,
8 to the bar

973
00:52:03,821 --> 00:52:06,722
You could see that
this wasn't exactly

974
00:52:06,791 --> 00:52:09,225
Fred MacMurray and
"My Three Sons," right?

975
00:52:09,293 --> 00:52:11,659
It always struck us as being

976
00:52:11,729 --> 00:52:14,630
a very dysfunctional
family, obviously.

977
00:52:14,699 --> 00:52:16,030
And we'd have to,

978
00:52:16,100 --> 00:52:18,796
you would have to wonder,
wouldn't you,

979
00:52:18,869 --> 00:52:24,000
what kind of a family
situation you would have

980
00:52:24,075 --> 00:52:29,240
that could produce
this kind of crime.

981
00:52:29,313 --> 00:52:32,282
What might it be like to grow up
in a household like this?

982
00:52:32,350 --> 00:52:35,751
I don't know.
I can't even imagine.

983
00:52:35,820 --> 00:52:38,448
Today is September 14, 1975.

984
00:52:38,522 --> 00:52:40,888
We just concluded a tour
of Jungle Safari.

985
00:52:40,958 --> 00:52:42,585
Jungle Habitat.

986
00:52:42,660 --> 00:52:44,685
Jungle Habitat in
West Milford, New Jersey.

987
00:52:44,762 --> 00:52:45,888
Here are my 3 brothers.

988
00:52:45,963 --> 00:52:48,193
Two brothers, you dummy.

989
00:52:48,265 --> 00:52:49,926
All right, there are 3 children.

990
00:52:50,001 --> 00:52:55,439
What happened was the 3
sons were like a gang.

991
00:52:55,506 --> 00:52:58,236
Like, "This is our gang

992
00:52:58,309 --> 00:52:59,799
and Mom. "

993
00:53:02,213 --> 00:53:05,239
"She's not part of our gang. "

994
00:53:05,316 --> 00:53:08,183
And we have, of course,

995
00:53:08,252 --> 00:53:10,379
A pterodactyl.

996
00:53:10,454 --> 00:53:12,354
A Jewish pterodactyl.

997
00:53:12,423 --> 00:53:14,448
Shmuck, shmuck, schmuck.

998
00:53:14,525 --> 00:53:16,288
The 4 of us got along so well.

999
00:53:17,561 --> 00:53:20,621
We had a very similar
kind of sense of humor.

1000
00:53:20,698 --> 00:53:22,893
You know, one guy would say
something, and then it would,

1001
00:53:22,967 --> 00:53:24,798
then the next person
would add to the joke.

1002
00:53:24,869 --> 00:53:26,461
And my mother, who has
no sense of humor,

1003
00:53:26,537 --> 00:53:29,802
and she just didn't
get that part of us.

1004
00:53:29,874 --> 00:53:31,967
And she resented that.

1005
00:53:32,043 --> 00:53:35,706
When this whole thing blew
apart, the men got together,

1006
00:53:35,780 --> 00:53:38,647
and Arnold confided in them.

1007
00:53:38,716 --> 00:53:40,149
And me?

1008
00:53:41,285 --> 00:53:44,618
And I was a loyal wife.

1009
00:53:44,689 --> 00:53:47,886
People told me, "Oh, why
don't you leave him?

1010
00:53:47,958 --> 00:53:49,448
He's a horrible person.

1011
00:53:49,527 --> 00:53:50,755
Just walk out and leave him. "

1012
00:53:50,828 --> 00:53:52,455
And I didn't.

1013
00:53:52,530 --> 00:53:53,827
I went all over town.

1014
00:53:53,898 --> 00:53:55,229
I raised money for bail.

1015
00:53:55,299 --> 00:53:59,633
I called every relative I knew.

1016
00:53:59,704 --> 00:54:00,830
I begged.

1017
00:54:00,905 --> 00:54:04,864
And I did all this
for him, right?

1018
00:54:04,942 --> 00:54:07,536
He was my husband. I loved him.

1019
00:54:07,611 --> 00:54:10,603
And no one said,
"What do you want?" to me.

1020
00:54:25,129 --> 00:54:26,790
OK.

1021
00:54:26,864 --> 00:54:29,298
OK, I think we can eat now.

1022
00:54:29,366 --> 00:54:31,891
So you're saying
what we have is

1023
00:54:31,969 --> 00:54:34,961
the people who we thought
would testify

1024
00:54:35,039 --> 00:54:36,597
and say that nothing happened.

1025
00:54:40,111 --> 00:54:42,545
And we are afraid to put them
on the witness stand,

1026
00:54:42,613 --> 00:54:44,706
even though we know
that nothing happened.

1027
00:54:44,782 --> 00:54:47,376
We think they will say
something happened.

1028
00:54:47,451 --> 00:54:50,545
The Friedmans suggested that
we speak to various people

1029
00:54:50,621 --> 00:54:52,885
who may have been present
at the time.

1030
00:54:52,957 --> 00:54:56,552
And some of those people weren't
alleged victims at all.

1031
00:54:56,627 --> 00:54:59,892
And that the hope was that one
or more of these people

1032
00:54:59,964 --> 00:55:02,296
would say,
"This is just not true. "

1033
00:55:04,301 --> 00:55:05,962
But that just didn't happen.

1034
00:55:22,486 --> 00:55:23,817
As far as I'm concerned
he's being, he's

1035
00:55:28,659 --> 00:55:30,251
So then nothing happened.

1036
00:55:30,327 --> 00:55:34,263
We begged him to tell us
that something happened,

1037
00:55:34,331 --> 00:55:37,767
to explain how this whole mess
could have happened.

1038
00:55:37,835 --> 00:55:40,770
That's the only way to explain
how it could have happened

1039
00:55:40,838 --> 00:55:45,104
other then the fact that the
police are out of their minds.

1040
00:55:45,176 --> 00:55:48,771
We begged him.
He told us nothing happened.

1041
00:55:48,846 --> 00:55:50,609
That's good enough for me.
Nothing happened.

1042
00:55:50,681 --> 00:55:53,946
If my father had the ability
to confess to me,

1043
00:55:54,018 --> 00:55:55,952
yeah, he had done
something one time,

1044
00:55:56,020 --> 00:55:59,456
and that's how this whole crazy
mess got started,

1045
00:55:59,523 --> 00:56:01,184
it would make a lot more sense.

1046
00:56:02,693 --> 00:56:07,960
Not that I wanted that
to be the case, but

1047
00:56:08,032 --> 00:56:13,026
you have to find a way
to explain the unexplainable.

1048
00:56:14,371 --> 00:56:15,531
Oh, my gosh.

1049
00:56:17,875 --> 00:56:19,137
Oh, look at that.

1050
00:56:19,210 --> 00:56:23,146
Happy Birthday to you

1051
00:56:23,214 --> 00:56:27,048
Happy Birthday to you

1052
00:56:28,385 --> 00:56:29,875
Is that a real ice cream?

1053
00:56:33,057 --> 00:56:35,389
That's what's so odd about it.

1054
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:39,825
They had this idealized image

1055
00:56:39,897 --> 00:56:44,664
of this father as being this
saint-like person

1056
00:56:44,735 --> 00:56:49,502
this Santa Claus,
Messiah, you know.

1057
00:56:49,573 --> 00:56:53,168
And professionals
in the field say that

1058
00:56:53,244 --> 00:56:57,840
oh, they have this idea
that children identify

1059
00:56:57,915 --> 00:57:00,509
with the abusive parent.

1060
00:57:01,752 --> 00:57:07,520
When I was about a year or two,
my parents separated.

1061
00:57:07,591 --> 00:57:09,183
And what did I do?

1062
00:57:09,260 --> 00:57:12,024
"My father is wonderful.

1063
00:57:12,096 --> 00:57:14,257
My mother is terrible. "

1064
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,865
The truth is
my father was a rat

1065
00:57:19,937 --> 00:57:21,370
just like David's father.

1066
00:57:21,438 --> 00:57:23,030
My father walked out.

1067
00:57:23,107 --> 00:57:24,540
This is not wonderful.

1068
00:57:24,608 --> 00:57:26,041
This is being a rat.

1069
00:57:26,110 --> 00:57:29,705
My mother was a nag.

1070
00:57:29,780 --> 00:57:31,372
Well, I mean, this is true

1071
00:57:31,448 --> 00:57:35,111
but look, she stayed with me,
she took care of me.

1072
00:57:36,787 --> 00:57:42,123
So people's visions
are distorted.

1073
00:57:43,127 --> 00:57:44,059
I never felt angry at my dad.

1074
00:57:44,128 --> 00:57:45,288
My dad had nothing
to do with this.

1075
00:57:46,297 --> 00:57:47,389
Someone knocks on the door

1076
00:57:47,464 --> 00:57:50,058
and accuses you for a crime
you didn't commit

1077
00:57:50,134 --> 00:57:51,897
you gotta attack

1078
00:57:51,969 --> 00:57:53,800
attack your attackers
and do what you can.

1079
00:57:54,972 --> 00:57:57,566
And that's all it was.

1080
00:57:57,641 --> 00:57:58,733
It had nothing to do with

1081
00:57:58,809 --> 00:58:00,140
there was nothing else
that was involved at all.

1082
00:58:01,979 --> 00:58:04,243
We were talking about
honoring and respecting.

1083
00:58:04,315 --> 00:58:06,249
Yeah, but, yeah,
talk about honor and

1084
00:58:06,317 --> 00:58:07,409
do you honor and respect
your husband?

1085
00:58:07,484 --> 00:58:09,076
That's why
I don't talk to you.

1086
00:58:09,153 --> 00:58:10,745
I said I did honor
and respect my husband.

1087
00:58:10,821 --> 00:58:11,913
Oh, Okay.

1088
00:58:11,989 --> 00:58:13,081
But you don't like
that answer.

1089
00:58:13,157 --> 00:58:14,647
No I don't.
I don't believe it, no.

1090
00:58:16,327 --> 00:58:17,760
Ask your father.

1091
00:58:17,828 --> 00:58:19,489
Do I honor and respect you?

1092
00:58:20,664 --> 00:58:23,428
Do you object to my handling

1093
00:58:23,500 --> 00:58:27,493
do you have any objection
in my relationship with you?

1094
00:58:29,173 --> 00:58:30,834
Do you like it
when she calls you slime?

1095
00:58:32,176 --> 00:58:33,268
She did.

1096
00:58:33,344 --> 00:58:34,436
Did you like it
when she did?

1097
00:58:34,511 --> 00:58:35,944
OK.

1098
00:58:36,013 --> 00:58:37,105
Did you like it when

1099
00:58:37,181 --> 00:58:39,115
The other cases that
I've written about

1100
00:58:39,183 --> 00:58:42,448
those families
have been much stronger.

1101
00:58:42,519 --> 00:58:44,612
First of all,
they've started from

1102
00:58:44,688 --> 00:58:47,282
a monolithic feeling
of innocence

1103
00:58:47,358 --> 00:58:48,791
which didn't exist
in this family

1104
00:58:48,859 --> 00:58:50,520
because of Arnold's pedophilia.

1105
00:58:51,528 --> 00:58:54,793
And they just buckled down

1106
00:58:54,865 --> 00:58:57,459
and everybody gets behind
the defendant

1107
00:58:57,534 --> 00:58:58,796
the accused family member.

1108
00:58:58,869 --> 00:59:00,461
People quit their jobs.

1109
00:59:00,537 --> 00:59:01,799
And, you know

1110
00:59:01,872 --> 00:59:03,965
people were all sitting around
the kitchen table

1111
00:59:04,041 --> 00:59:08,307
for the next 3 years with
staplers and Xerox machines

1112
00:59:08,379 --> 00:59:11,473
and they're working on
the defense.

1113
00:59:11,548 --> 00:59:13,812
And then when the defendant
is convicted

1114
00:59:13,884 --> 00:59:15,818
they're working on the appeal

1115
00:59:15,886 --> 00:59:19,322
and all family conflict
is submerged.

1116
00:59:19,390 --> 00:59:23,656
Why don't you try once
to be supportive of me?

1117
00:59:23,727 --> 00:59:24,989
Well, I'll tell you why.

1118
00:59:25,062 --> 00:59:27,656
Because we all started at
the beginning of this thing

1119
00:59:27,731 --> 00:59:29,494
and I

1120
00:59:29,566 --> 00:59:31,158
Well let's start
from right now.

1121
00:59:31,235 --> 00:59:32,827
OK, let's start
from right now.

1122
00:59:32,903 --> 00:59:34,336
All right, let's start
from right now.

1123
00:59:34,405 --> 00:59:37,499
We'll all start brand new.

1124
00:59:37,574 --> 00:59:40,668
We have a decision making
process on the table.

1125
00:59:40,744 --> 00:59:41,836
Great.

1126
00:59:41,912 --> 00:59:43,004
All the past mistakes,
they were mistakes.

1127
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:44,172
We're not gonna hold them
against anyone.

1128
00:59:44,248 --> 00:59:45,340
Great, great.

1129
00:59:45,416 --> 00:59:46,576
Now we're starting afresh.

1130
00:59:50,421 --> 00:59:52,753
Stop. Lower your voice,
and talk nicely to your sons.

1131
00:59:54,425 --> 00:59:56,188
Alright, now we're gonna do it,
starting now.

1132
00:59:56,260 --> 00:59:57,693
Seth, why don't you call me?

1133
00:59:57,761 --> 00:59:59,353
Do I bawl you out?

1134
00:59:59,430 --> 01:00:02,024
Seth is

1135
01:00:02,099 --> 01:00:03,191
...against me

1136
01:00:03,267 --> 01:00:04,529
and she can't hold it
against me.

1137
01:00:04,601 --> 01:00:06,535
Well, now it's time
to call it

1138
01:00:06,603 --> 01:00:08,935
'cause Mommy's sad
and stuff.

1139
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:38,392
I think there
was a recognition

1140
01:00:38,469 --> 01:00:41,905
that Arnold's case was becoming
increasingly hopeless

1141
01:00:41,972 --> 01:00:43,564
because of the child
pornography problem

1142
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:46,734
because of other people
coming out of the woodwork.

1143
01:00:46,810 --> 01:00:49,745
So the strategy evolved to

1144
01:00:49,813 --> 01:00:51,804
"What can we do to save Jesse?"

1145
01:00:52,983 --> 01:00:56,419
Jesse's lawyer
very eloquently said to us

1146
01:00:56,487 --> 01:00:59,752
"If there's a rowboat
and it's sinking

1147
01:00:59,823 --> 01:01:02,758
and the rowboat
is tied to a rock

1148
01:01:02,826 --> 01:01:05,590
you have to disconnect
the rowboat from the rock

1149
01:01:05,662 --> 01:01:06,924
and save the rowboat

1150
01:01:06,997 --> 01:01:08,589
even though the rock
is sinking"

1151
01:01:08,665 --> 01:01:12,260
Meaning you had to separate
Arnold from Jesse.

1152
01:01:12,336 --> 01:01:14,270
And Arnold was going to plead

1153
01:01:14,338 --> 01:01:17,171
and Jesse would
in some way benefit.

1154
01:01:18,342 --> 01:01:21,277
I was sitting there
potentially going to trial

1155
01:01:21,345 --> 01:01:24,280
with no pornographic magazines
admitted into evidence

1156
01:01:24,348 --> 01:01:27,112
without an adult pedophile
as a co-defendant

1157
01:01:27,184 --> 01:01:31,120
and I understood
that sort of reasoning

1158
01:01:31,188 --> 01:01:34,123
but it makes no sense
if my father pleads guilty

1159
01:01:34,191 --> 01:01:36,625
and then I go to trial and say,
"I didn't do it"

1160
01:01:36,693 --> 01:01:39,287
when all the jurors have already
read in the newspaper

1161
01:01:39,363 --> 01:01:41,297
that my father plead guilty.

1162
01:01:41,365 --> 01:01:44,027
And I did not want my father
to plead guilty.

1163
01:01:46,370 --> 01:01:48,964
I arranged for Mr. Friedman
and his family

1164
01:01:49,039 --> 01:01:52,304
to get a jury room
where they could sit

1165
01:01:52,376 --> 01:01:55,038
and they could discuss
these plea options.

1166
01:01:56,380 --> 01:01:58,974
And while I didn't go
inside the room

1167
01:01:59,049 --> 01:02:01,984
except to knock on the door
and say where we're at

1168
01:02:02,052 --> 01:02:04,646
in terms of what Mr. Friedman
wanted to do

1169
01:02:04,721 --> 01:02:09,488
there was a lot
of yelling and crying

1170
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:12,654
and screaming going on,
coming out of that room.

1171
01:02:12,729 --> 01:02:14,162
God damn it!

1172
01:02:14,231 --> 01:02:17,325
When I screamed at Arnold,
I screamed

1173
01:02:17,401 --> 01:02:19,835
"You must do it
because it'll help Jesse.

1174
01:02:19,903 --> 01:02:21,666
Do it for Jesse. "

1175
01:02:21,738 --> 01:02:26,334
And my brothers were
just furious at this notion

1176
01:02:26,410 --> 01:02:28,503
that my father would go to court
and plead guilty.

1177
01:02:28,579 --> 01:02:31,013
And at one point
in all of the chaos

1178
01:02:31,081 --> 01:02:33,515
my father
just started screaming.

1179
01:02:33,584 --> 01:02:35,677
And there's
uncontrollable tears

1180
01:02:35,752 --> 01:02:37,014
and he picked up a chair.

1181
01:02:37,087 --> 01:02:38,679
I remember he threw a chair.

1182
01:02:38,755 --> 01:02:41,349
He was just screaming about how
he wasn't gonna plead guilty.

1183
01:02:41,425 --> 01:02:43,188
He didn't do anything,
he's not gonna plead guilty.

1184
01:02:43,260 --> 01:02:45,524
And he was furious
at my mother

1185
01:02:45,596 --> 01:02:48,929
and he was
just freaking out.

1186
01:02:50,267 --> 01:02:54,033
And I remember very clearly

1187
01:02:54,104 --> 01:02:56,868
sitting down with my father
in the corner.

1188
01:02:56,940 --> 01:02:59,033
My mother's over there,
brothers are over here.

1189
01:02:59,109 --> 01:03:01,043
I'm talking to
my father privately

1190
01:03:01,111 --> 01:03:06,208
and he asked me
what he should do.

1191
01:03:06,283 --> 01:03:09,878
And I could have said
to my father

1192
01:03:09,953 --> 01:03:11,716
"I want you just
to walk out of here

1193
01:03:11,788 --> 01:03:14,450
and go to trial
and not plead guilty. "

1194
01:03:15,626 --> 01:03:20,893
Instead, I remember
very clearly saying to him

1195
01:03:20,964 --> 01:03:25,731
I wanted him
to make the decision.

1196
01:03:25,802 --> 01:03:28,566
And I remember feeling like
a really young kid.

1197
01:03:28,639 --> 01:03:30,573
Kind of looking up
to my Dad and saying

1198
01:03:30,641 --> 01:03:34,475
"Dad, I," you know
"I want you to be my Daddy. "

1199
01:03:36,146 --> 01:03:37,738
And I would have been really,
really proud of him

1200
01:03:37,814 --> 01:03:39,076
if he had just
stood up and said

1201
01:03:39,149 --> 01:03:40,411
"Elaine,
I'm not pleading guilty.

1202
01:03:40,484 --> 01:03:41,644
We're going to trial. "

1203
01:03:44,321 --> 01:03:46,653
But that's not what happened.

1204
01:03:48,825 --> 01:03:51,259
Former New York City
schoolteacher Arnold Friedman

1205
01:03:51,328 --> 01:03:52,590
had nothing to say
when he left

1206
01:03:52,663 --> 01:03:54,756
the Nassau County Courthouse
in Mineola

1207
01:03:54,831 --> 01:03:59,097
but inside he pleaded guilty to
more then 40 counts of sodomy

1208
01:03:59,169 --> 01:04:02,935
sexual abuse, and endangering
the welfare of a child.

1209
01:04:03,006 --> 01:04:04,940
Attempted sexual abuse
in the first degree

1210
01:04:05,008 --> 01:04:07,602
an "E" felony, two counts

1211
01:04:07,678 --> 01:04:09,270
and endangering the welfare
of a child

1212
01:04:09,346 --> 01:04:11,610
a class "A" misdemeanor,
one count

1213
01:04:11,682 --> 01:04:13,445
in full satisfaction
of this indictment?

1214
01:04:13,517 --> 01:04:14,609
Yes.

1215
01:04:14,685 --> 01:04:16,118
My mother manipulated him.

1216
01:04:16,186 --> 01:04:17,278
My mother is crazy

1217
01:04:17,354 --> 01:04:19,288
and my mother has control
over my father.

1218
01:04:19,356 --> 01:04:20,448
Some relationships have that

1219
01:04:20,524 --> 01:04:22,617
where the woman
controls the man.

1220
01:04:22,693 --> 01:04:23,785
It's called being pussy whipped.

1221
01:04:23,860 --> 01:04:25,122
My father and my mother

1222
01:04:25,195 --> 01:04:26,287
are not the only
two people in the world

1223
01:04:26,363 --> 01:04:27,455
who have that relationship.

1224
01:04:27,531 --> 01:04:29,123
My father and mother
had that relationship.

1225
01:04:29,199 --> 01:04:31,292
My mother and the lawyers said,
"Take the plea. "

1226
01:04:31,368 --> 01:04:32,528
They took the plea.

1227
01:04:33,537 --> 01:04:35,300
I sat there in disbelief.

1228
01:04:35,372 --> 01:04:36,703
Is this my brother?

1229
01:04:37,874 --> 01:04:39,205
My brother?

1230
01:04:40,377 --> 01:04:43,312
This isn't my brother,
he's not a monster.

1231
01:04:43,380 --> 01:04:44,472
He's a good loving brother

1232
01:04:44,548 --> 01:04:46,812
and husband, and son,
and citizen, and teacher

1233
01:04:46,883 --> 01:04:48,976
and this isn't happening.

1234
01:04:49,052 --> 01:04:51,316
This is a mistake.

1235
01:04:51,388 --> 01:04:55,154
Something as horrendous
as child molestation

1236
01:04:55,225 --> 01:04:57,159
you have to live with yourself.

1237
01:04:57,227 --> 01:05:00,321
If you didn't do it,
you don't plead guilty.

1238
01:05:00,397 --> 01:05:02,729
I never understood it.

1239
01:05:53,116 --> 01:05:54,276
We have Elaine.

1240
01:05:55,452 --> 01:05:58,387
- Hi.
- We have Teddy, Arnie.

1241
01:05:58,455 --> 01:06:00,616
Number 4753206.

1242
01:06:01,792 --> 01:06:03,384
Don't.
Please don't film me.

1243
01:06:03,460 --> 01:06:08,727
David, I told you
I don't want to be on tape.

1244
01:06:08,799 --> 01:06:09,891
Why are you so

1245
01:06:09,966 --> 01:06:12,560
When we stop talking to her

1246
01:06:12,636 --> 01:06:13,728
She doesn't want

1247
01:06:13,804 --> 01:06:15,738
She doesn't want any record,
any record at all

1248
01:06:15,806 --> 01:06:16,898
As if they were

1249
01:06:16,973 --> 01:06:18,065
Can you believe these kids,

1250
01:06:18,141 --> 01:06:19,403
that they have to persecute me?

1251
01:06:19,476 --> 01:06:21,068
David, if your mother
doesn't want to be filmed

1252
01:06:21,144 --> 01:06:22,236
don't film her.

1253
01:06:22,312 --> 01:06:24,246
- OK.
- Come on.

1254
01:06:24,314 --> 01:06:28,410
When it was all over,
they said it was all my fault

1255
01:06:28,485 --> 01:06:31,921
because I wanted them
to take a plea and

1256
01:06:31,988 --> 01:06:33,580
it had been arranged before.

1257
01:06:33,657 --> 01:06:36,148
Arnold agreed
to take a plea

1258
01:06:38,161 --> 01:06:39,651
but they were very hurt.

1259
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:45,092
I'm still here.

1260
01:06:45,168 --> 01:06:46,430
Yeah.

1261
01:06:46,503 --> 01:06:47,595
I may not be here
very much longer

1262
01:06:47,671 --> 01:06:48,831
but I'm still here.

1263
01:06:50,340 --> 01:06:53,935
That's disturbed.

1264
01:06:54,010 --> 01:06:56,444
The sentence:
10 to 30 years.

1265
01:06:56,513 --> 01:06:59,107
The crime:
Sodomizing young boys.

1266
01:06:59,182 --> 01:07:01,446
Defendant Arnold Friedman
had pleaded guilty

1267
01:07:01,518 --> 01:07:04,453
to sexually abusing
more than a dozen youngsters,

1268
01:07:04,521 --> 01:07:06,614
but this does not end
the Friedman case.

1269
01:07:06,690 --> 01:07:09,124
There are still numerous sodomy
and sex abuse charges

1270
01:07:09,192 --> 01:07:11,854
pending against Arnold's son,
Jesse Friedman.

1271
01:07:21,872 --> 01:07:24,466
I mean we could try this case
in the media.

1272
01:07:24,541 --> 01:07:28,477
Who's gonna, who's gonna buy
that I sodomized boys?

1273
01:07:28,545 --> 01:07:30,137
Yeah, I agree with you.
I agree with you.

1274
01:07:30,213 --> 01:07:31,305
No, I really

1275
01:07:31,381 --> 01:07:32,473
Well, I don't think
we have to try

1276
01:07:32,549 --> 01:07:33,709
well, all I want to do

1277
01:07:37,387 --> 01:07:39,321
We didn't make a deal
with Arnold Friedman

1278
01:07:39,389 --> 01:07:40,822
to spare his son.

1279
01:07:40,891 --> 01:07:43,655
So his son is facing
a multiple count indictment

1280
01:07:43,727 --> 01:07:46,161
he's facing a considerable
amount of jail time

1281
01:07:46,229 --> 01:07:48,163
and now he's confronted
with a situation

1282
01:07:48,231 --> 01:07:50,165
where Long Island knows

1283
01:07:50,233 --> 01:07:53,498
that his father admitted
his guilt

1284
01:07:53,570 --> 01:07:56,164
and there's a reasonable
human expectation

1285
01:07:56,239 --> 01:07:58,673
of some people that,
you know

1286
01:07:58,742 --> 01:08:00,004
where there's smoke,
there's fire.

1287
01:08:00,076 --> 01:08:02,510
And if he did it,
maybe his son did it.

1288
01:08:02,579 --> 01:08:04,342
We know he was
in the same class

1289
01:08:04,414 --> 01:08:05,847
and he was helping his father.

1290
01:08:05,916 --> 01:08:08,180
So I think that
was a difficult thing

1291
01:08:08,251 --> 01:08:09,912
for Jesse to
have to overcome.

1292
01:08:33,944 --> 01:08:36,538
I always believed Jesse.

1293
01:08:36,613 --> 01:08:39,707
How could this possibly
go on for 4 years

1294
01:08:39,783 --> 01:08:44,880
children repeatedly sodomized
and sexually abused

1295
01:08:44,955 --> 01:08:48,220
with brutality
if you believe the police.

1296
01:08:48,291 --> 01:08:49,553
And then their parents come
to pick them up

1297
01:08:49,626 --> 01:08:52,891
right after computer class
and not one kid is crying

1298
01:08:52,963 --> 01:08:54,555
not one kid tells
his mother or father

1299
01:08:54,631 --> 01:08:56,064
what happened in class

1300
01:08:56,132 --> 01:08:58,396
not one kid says anything?

1301
01:08:58,468 --> 01:09:00,561
I find that so incredible

1302
01:09:00,637 --> 01:09:02,229
that Jesse's story
that nothing happened

1303
01:09:02,305 --> 01:09:05,900
to me was more believable
than the police version

1304
01:09:05,976 --> 01:09:07,967
of these horrific acts.

1305
01:09:13,650 --> 01:09:14,912
Jesse and I went

1306
01:09:14,985 --> 01:09:18,421
we flew in August of 1988

1307
01:09:18,488 --> 01:09:21,252
all the way
to Madison, Wisconsin

1308
01:09:21,324 --> 01:09:25,420
where we rented a car
and drove 90 miles

1309
01:09:25,495 --> 01:09:28,430
to some town that I couldn't
possibly give you the name of

1310
01:09:28,498 --> 01:09:30,591
to a federal prison.

1311
01:09:30,667 --> 01:09:32,931
Who knew more about this case
then Arnold Friedman?

1312
01:09:33,003 --> 01:09:34,163
He knew more about
it than Jesse.

1313
01:09:35,338 --> 01:09:36,999
I had to wait 40 minutes

1314
01:09:38,174 --> 01:09:42,270
because Arnie was either
playing tennis or golf

1315
01:09:42,345 --> 01:09:43,437
I don't remember what it was.

1316
01:09:43,513 --> 01:09:44,673
I was outraged.

1317
01:09:46,182 --> 01:09:47,342
It was a visiting room.

1318
01:09:49,352 --> 01:09:54,289
Jesse was out in the waiting
room at this point

1319
01:09:54,357 --> 01:09:59,954
and this man had this little boy
in there who was his son

1320
01:10:00,030 --> 01:10:02,294
or his stepson,
I don't know

1321
01:10:02,365 --> 01:10:05,129
but the child was about
4 or 5 years old

1322
01:10:05,201 --> 01:10:07,795
and they were in the table
right next to us.

1323
01:10:07,871 --> 01:10:10,135
And I was interviewing Arnie

1324
01:10:10,206 --> 01:10:12,970
and all of a sudden
he leaned over and asked me

1325
01:10:13,043 --> 01:10:14,977
if I could ask
the corrections officer

1326
01:10:15,045 --> 01:10:16,979
or whoever was in charge
in the room

1327
01:10:17,047 --> 01:10:18,981
if we could get another table.

1328
01:10:19,049 --> 01:10:21,711
And I asked him why,
and he said

1329
01:10:23,887 --> 01:10:27,482
"That little boy over there
bouncing on his father's lap

1330
01:10:27,557 --> 01:10:29,047
is getting me very excited. "

1331
01:10:31,227 --> 01:10:34,321
It took me about 15 minutes
to regain my composure.

1332
01:10:34,397 --> 01:10:35,989
I remember that
like it was yesterday.

1333
01:10:36,066 --> 01:10:37,658
I was shocked

1334
01:10:37,734 --> 01:10:39,497
'cause even though I was
involved in the case now

1335
01:10:39,569 --> 01:10:40,661
for two months

1336
01:10:40,737 --> 01:10:43,331
and even though
I had studied pedophilia

1337
01:10:43,406 --> 01:10:47,001
and I knew what these men
did to little boys

1338
01:10:47,077 --> 01:10:50,069
I had never heard somebody
actually say it.

1339
01:10:51,581 --> 01:10:56,416
And I was absolutely disgusted.

1340
01:10:58,254 --> 01:11:01,519
We did change our table
and I spoke to Arnie.

1341
01:11:01,591 --> 01:11:04,287
I interviewed him
for a very long time.

1342
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:06,521
He was telling me
that the only reason

1343
01:11:06,596 --> 01:11:10,032
he pled guilty
and went to jail

1344
01:11:10,100 --> 01:11:14,366
was because he wanted
to save his son, Jesse.

1345
01:11:14,437 --> 01:11:17,702
He told me that he was
a pedophile.

1346
01:11:17,774 --> 01:11:23,041
He told me that he had
had activity with boys

1347
01:11:23,113 --> 01:11:24,944
but not in Great Neck.

1348
01:11:26,783 --> 01:11:29,877
He told me that he had a house
in Wading River

1349
01:11:29,953 --> 01:11:31,545
a beach resort

1350
01:11:31,621 --> 01:11:35,614
and that the family
enjoyed vacations there.

1351
01:11:37,627 --> 01:11:43,224
And he told me that
there were certain boys

1352
01:11:43,299 --> 01:11:44,391
he took liberties with

1353
01:11:44,467 --> 01:11:46,401
and I don't want
to go into it

1354
01:11:46,469 --> 01:11:49,632
while he was in that area.

1355
01:11:51,141 --> 01:11:53,234
"In my early 40s,
during the summer

1356
01:11:53,309 --> 01:11:55,903
I did go 'over the line'

1357
01:11:55,979 --> 01:11:59,415
and did have sexually arousing
contact with two boys

1358
01:11:59,482 --> 01:12:00,915
short of sodomy.

1359
01:12:00,984 --> 01:12:03,248
One of the boys was the son
of a close friend

1360
01:12:03,319 --> 01:12:06,254
and I feared exposure
and loss of this friendship.

1361
01:12:06,322 --> 01:12:07,755
The boy might have
told his parents

1362
01:12:07,824 --> 01:12:08,916
but they said nothing

1363
01:12:08,992 --> 01:12:11,722
so I assumed that
he really had not told them. "

1364
01:12:11,795 --> 01:12:13,922
That's what? It's one sentence.
What does that mean?

1365
01:12:13,997 --> 01:12:15,760
Do you fucking know
what that sentence means?

1366
01:12:15,832 --> 01:12:18,426
I don't even fucking know
what that sentence means.

1367
01:12:18,501 --> 01:12:19,934
I "sexually aroused?"

1368
01:12:20,003 --> 01:12:22,096
What the fuck
is he talking about?

1369
01:12:22,172 --> 01:12:23,764
Maybe he put his arm
around the kid.

1370
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:25,774
Maybe he took him
in a sailboat

1371
01:12:25,842 --> 01:12:27,776
and he found that
sexually arousing?

1372
01:12:27,844 --> 01:12:29,436
Maybe he was leaning
against a tree.

1373
01:12:29,512 --> 01:12:31,275
That's called
sexually arousing contact

1374
01:12:31,347 --> 01:12:33,941
if you're sexually aroused
while you lean against a tree.

1375
01:12:34,017 --> 01:12:35,109
I don't know what that means.

1376
01:12:35,185 --> 01:12:36,345
I don't know
what that sentence means.

1377
01:12:37,687 --> 01:12:40,451
When Arnold was first arrested,
he said

1378
01:12:40,523 --> 01:12:43,117
"I'm arrested because
of this magazine.

1379
01:12:43,193 --> 01:12:45,787
I sent one magazine
in the mail

1380
01:12:45,862 --> 01:12:48,456
and that's why I'm arrested,
and it's nothing.

1381
01:12:48,531 --> 01:12:49,793
It's just nothing.

1382
01:12:49,866 --> 01:12:51,629
It doesn't count,
it doesn't matter

1383
01:12:51,701 --> 01:12:53,134
it's nothing. "

1384
01:12:53,203 --> 01:12:56,297
And you know, you live
as husband and wife

1385
01:12:56,372 --> 01:12:58,636
you share certain intimacies.

1386
01:12:58,708 --> 01:13:00,972
I said to him,
"Tell me the truth.

1387
01:13:01,044 --> 01:13:02,136
What happened?"

1388
01:13:02,212 --> 01:13:03,804
He says, "That's it.
That's the truth. "

1389
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:09,216
So it came out that he had
in fact molested a young man.

1390
01:13:10,887 --> 01:13:14,323
And we were sitting
in the therapist's office

1391
01:13:14,390 --> 01:13:20,329
and he said,
"Oh, I just molested two boys. "

1392
01:13:20,396 --> 01:13:22,830
And I said, "Two? Two?"

1393
01:13:22,899 --> 01:13:26,232
I said, "I thought
you told me only one. "

1394
01:13:27,904 --> 01:13:32,341
"Well," you know, and he

1395
01:13:32,408 --> 01:13:35,502
"It didn't matter.
It's nothing," you know.

1396
01:13:35,578 --> 01:13:37,239
And then I went berserk.

1397
01:13:38,081 --> 01:13:39,571
And I felt betrayed.

1398
01:13:40,750 --> 01:13:43,014
Yeah, my father
had the magazines

1399
01:13:43,086 --> 01:13:46,180
and yes, my father admitted
that he was a pedophile

1400
01:13:46,256 --> 01:13:47,689
and had these fantasies

1401
01:13:47,757 --> 01:13:50,692
and yes, my father admitted
that he was no saint

1402
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:53,194
and that there were times
that he slipped

1403
01:13:53,263 --> 01:13:55,197
but I was arrested, too

1404
01:13:55,265 --> 01:13:57,756
and I'm not a child molester.

1405
01:13:58,935 --> 01:14:01,369
And I don't think
it's appropriate

1406
01:14:01,437 --> 01:14:04,099
for me to have to answer
for the sins of my father.

1407
01:14:13,616 --> 01:14:14,708
This is what I walk around with.

1408
01:14:14,784 --> 01:14:15,876
It's just, every day.

1409
01:14:15,952 --> 01:14:17,715
It's just ridiculous.

1410
01:14:17,787 --> 01:14:20,881
All I think about is the case
and my career

1411
01:14:20,957 --> 01:14:23,619
and they're completely,
it's like oil and water.

1412
01:14:27,797 --> 01:14:29,628
With the case,
it's a question of research.

1413
01:14:30,967 --> 01:14:32,229
My brother's been in
the law library

1414
01:14:32,302 --> 01:14:35,897
researching his current plan

1415
01:14:35,972 --> 01:14:38,304
and I'm supposed to go out
and make people laugh.

1416
01:14:42,979 --> 01:14:48,747
It's unbelievably difficult
to deal with the case

1417
01:14:48,818 --> 01:14:53,915
and then go out
and entertain people.

1418
01:14:53,990 --> 01:14:55,082
Hey!

1419
01:14:55,158 --> 01:14:56,318
Hi, everyone!

1420
01:14:59,829 --> 01:15:03,925
We carefully investigated
this case for trial.

1421
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:07,766
Really get into the case,
examine, investigate

1422
01:15:07,837 --> 01:15:09,771
and try to build a defense.

1423
01:15:09,839 --> 01:15:11,431
While I was out on bail

1424
01:15:11,507 --> 01:15:13,441
I put all the charges
into a database

1425
01:15:13,509 --> 01:15:16,103
so that they could be
sorted by complainant

1426
01:15:16,179 --> 01:15:19,671
by time period,
by nature of charge.

1427
01:15:20,850 --> 01:15:23,284
For example,
there was one complainant

1428
01:15:23,353 --> 01:15:24,615
10-year-old boy

1429
01:15:24,687 --> 01:15:27,451
says he came to class
in the spring of 1986

1430
01:15:27,523 --> 01:15:28,956
and during
this 10-week session

1431
01:15:29,025 --> 01:15:30,617
where he was
only over my house

1432
01:15:30,693 --> 01:15:32,627
for an hour and a half
once a week

1433
01:15:32,695 --> 01:15:38,292
he says that there were
31 instances of sexual contact.

1434
01:15:38,368 --> 01:15:40,802
That's 3 times a week

1435
01:15:40,870 --> 01:15:42,132
every single week...

1436
01:15:42,205 --> 01:15:44,139
for 10 straight weeks

1437
01:15:44,207 --> 01:15:46,471
and then the course ends.

1438
01:15:46,542 --> 01:15:50,979
In the fall, he re-enrolled
for the advanced course

1439
01:15:51,047 --> 01:15:55,814
and says that he was subjected
to 41 more instances

1440
01:15:55,885 --> 01:15:59,150
of anal and oral sodomy
in the next 10-week session

1441
01:15:59,222 --> 01:16:00,985
and nobody said anything.

1442
01:16:01,057 --> 01:16:02,490
Week after week,
month after month

1443
01:16:02,558 --> 01:16:03,991
year after year

1444
01:16:04,060 --> 01:16:06,153
until after the police
came knocking on doors

1445
01:16:06,229 --> 01:16:07,389
and asking questions.

1446
01:16:26,082 --> 01:16:27,174
I went to the doorbell.

1447
01:16:27,250 --> 01:16:28,842
There were two
Nassau County detectives

1448
01:16:28,918 --> 01:16:31,352
and they said they'd like to
speak to our son

1449
01:16:31,421 --> 01:16:34,515
with regard to
the Friedman matter.

1450
01:16:34,590 --> 01:16:37,855
They came in and said, "We know
something happened to him. "

1451
01:16:37,927 --> 01:16:39,189
They didn't say, "We believe. "

1452
01:16:39,262 --> 01:16:42,197
They said, "We know. "

1453
01:16:42,265 --> 01:16:44,529
And they wanted
to speak to him.

1454
01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:46,693
I remember it was actually kind
of a frightening experience

1455
01:16:46,769 --> 01:16:48,202
because I remember
they're talking

1456
01:16:48,271 --> 01:16:52,037
to my parents about this
within earshot of me.

1457
01:16:52,108 --> 01:16:53,541
I remember actually
eavesdropping

1458
01:16:53,609 --> 01:16:55,702
on what they said

1459
01:16:55,778 --> 01:16:58,713
and what they said
made my heart race

1460
01:16:58,781 --> 01:17:00,214
because they were saying

1461
01:17:00,283 --> 01:17:03,377
that actually quite
a few horrible things

1462
01:17:03,453 --> 01:17:04,647
had happened to
a lot of children

1463
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:06,551
and I was one of them.

1464
01:17:06,622 --> 01:17:10,058
And quite honestly,
I didn't believe it

1465
01:17:10,126 --> 01:17:13,892
and I was very confused
and very angry about this,

1466
01:17:13,963 --> 01:17:15,055
thinking, well,
why are these people

1467
01:17:15,131 --> 01:17:17,895
going around
telling my parents

1468
01:17:17,967 --> 01:17:19,400
that all kinds of
things have happened

1469
01:17:19,469 --> 01:17:23,735
when I have simply no
recollection of anything?

1470
01:17:23,806 --> 01:17:26,400
Children want
to please very often.

1471
01:17:26,476 --> 01:17:28,569
They want to give you
the answers that you want.

1472
01:17:28,644 --> 01:17:30,407
Adults do that as well.

1473
01:17:30,480 --> 01:17:32,573
So you have to be
very mindful of the fact

1474
01:17:32,648 --> 01:17:34,582
that when you're
interviewing a child

1475
01:17:34,650 --> 01:17:37,414
if the child starts
to answer questions

1476
01:17:37,487 --> 01:17:39,921
your responses should be
somewhat in the framework of

1477
01:17:39,989 --> 01:17:41,251
"And then what happened?"

1478
01:17:41,324 --> 01:17:42,586
Or, "What happened next?"

1479
01:17:42,658 --> 01:17:44,421
Or, "What do you remember then?"

1480
01:17:44,494 --> 01:17:45,586
As opposed to

1481
01:17:45,661 --> 01:17:47,822
"He did this to you,
didn't he?"

1482
01:17:48,831 --> 01:17:50,822
Or "She did this to you,
didn't she?"

1483
01:17:51,834 --> 01:17:54,098
That's a very,
very dangerous type

1484
01:17:54,170 --> 01:17:56,104
of interview process to use.

1485
01:17:56,172 --> 01:17:57,605
If you talk to
a lot of children

1486
01:17:57,673 --> 01:17:59,436
you don't give them
an option, really.

1487
01:17:59,509 --> 01:18:01,602
You just, you be
pretty honest with them.

1488
01:18:01,677 --> 01:18:04,271
You have to tell them
pretty honestly that

1489
01:18:04,347 --> 01:18:06,941
"We know you went
to Mr. Friedman's class.

1490
01:18:07,016 --> 01:18:08,950
We know how many times
you've been to the class. "

1491
01:18:09,018 --> 01:18:11,282
You know, we go through
the whole routine.

1492
01:18:11,354 --> 01:18:13,948
"We know that there
was a good chance

1493
01:18:14,023 --> 01:18:16,287
that he touched you
or Jesse touched you

1494
01:18:16,359 --> 01:18:18,623
or somebody in that family
touched you

1495
01:18:18,694 --> 01:18:20,628
in a very inappropriate way. "

1496
01:18:20,696 --> 01:18:22,960
And I listened
to them talking to him

1497
01:18:23,032 --> 01:18:25,967
and it got to a point

1498
01:18:26,035 --> 01:18:29,129
where it wasn't
asking him what happened.

1499
01:18:29,205 --> 01:18:32,971
It was more of them
telling him what happened

1500
01:18:33,042 --> 01:18:37,809
and that when they didn't
like what he said

1501
01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:41,976
they kept repeating to him
that they know what happened

1502
01:18:42,051 --> 01:18:43,211
and that he should tell.

1503
01:18:44,720 --> 01:18:48,315
I believe that I remember saying
that I saw Jesse, like

1504
01:18:48,391 --> 01:18:50,825
chase after a kid or hit a kid
or something like that

1505
01:18:50,893 --> 01:18:53,555
and that's what I testified to
to the grand jury.

1506
01:18:55,398 --> 01:18:59,835
And I remember saying
that because I felt

1507
01:18:59,902 --> 01:19:01,335
and I feel like
when I said that

1508
01:19:01,404 --> 01:19:04,999
that ended the questioning.

1509
01:19:05,074 --> 01:19:07,167
And so that might
have meant that

1510
01:19:07,243 --> 01:19:08,505
you could infer maybe
that they were asking me

1511
01:19:08,578 --> 01:19:10,341
a lot of questions,
trying to get something

1512
01:19:10,413 --> 01:19:14,008
and I just wanted
to give them something.

1513
01:19:14,083 --> 01:19:15,516
I mean I don't want to be

1514
01:19:15,585 --> 01:19:16,847
say I'm a perjurer
or anything

1515
01:19:16,919 --> 01:19:21,686
but I did not observe
anything like that happening.

1516
01:19:21,757 --> 01:19:23,088
What I do remember is

1517
01:19:23,159 --> 01:19:25,684
the detectives putting me under
a lot of pressure to speak up.

1518
01:19:25,761 --> 01:19:27,695
And at some point,
I kind of broke down.

1519
01:19:27,763 --> 01:19:29,355
I started crying.

1520
01:19:29,432 --> 01:19:32,367
And when I started
to tell them things

1521
01:19:32,435 --> 01:19:36,701
I was telling myself
that it's not true.

1522
01:19:36,772 --> 01:19:38,364
I was telling myself,
"Just say this to them

1523
01:19:38,441 --> 01:19:39,931
in order to get them
off your back. "

1524
01:19:47,783 --> 01:19:49,216
I came across a document

1525
01:19:49,285 --> 01:19:51,549
regarding a group of children
from the Friedman case

1526
01:19:51,621 --> 01:19:53,054
who were in therapy

1527
01:19:53,122 --> 01:19:54,555
and it stated
that many of them

1528
01:19:54,624 --> 01:19:57,616
had absolutely no recollection
of the abuse

1529
01:19:58,628 --> 01:20:00,061
and there was some discussion

1530
01:20:00,129 --> 01:20:04,225
about whether hypnosis
would be a good idea now,

1531
01:20:04,300 --> 01:20:06,734
exactly what you're not
supposed to do.

1532
01:20:06,802 --> 01:20:08,099
It was the kind of therapy

1533
01:20:08,170 --> 01:20:10,570
that had a really good chance
of messing up kids' memories

1534
01:20:10,640 --> 01:20:12,301
and implanting false memories.

1535
01:20:15,311 --> 01:20:16,972
My parents put me
in therapy right away.

1536
01:20:18,481 --> 01:20:19,573
They put me in hypnosis

1537
01:20:19,649 --> 01:20:21,742
and tried to recall facts
that I had buried.

1538
01:20:21,817 --> 01:20:24,911
And that's how I first came out,
started talking about it,

1539
01:20:24,987 --> 01:20:26,978
just through being hypnotized
and everything

1540
01:20:28,491 --> 01:20:30,425
I recalled things
that I would bury.

1541
01:20:30,493 --> 01:20:32,586
I was able to talk about them.

1542
01:20:32,662 --> 01:20:34,425
For example, what would be
something that you recall?

1543
01:20:34,497 --> 01:20:35,589
The actual first time

1544
01:20:35,665 --> 01:20:39,157
I actually recalled
that I was actually molested.

1545
01:20:40,836 --> 01:20:42,428
Wow, I was actually molested.

1546
01:20:42,505 --> 01:20:44,268
I can deal with it now.

1547
01:20:44,340 --> 01:20:45,773
That was the first time.

1548
01:20:45,841 --> 01:20:48,275
And you recalled through
hypnosis the first episode?

1549
01:20:48,344 --> 01:20:49,436
Yes.

1550
01:20:49,512 --> 01:20:51,104
So tell me about that,
if you remember.

1551
01:20:51,180 --> 01:20:52,511
I don't remember much about it.

1552
01:20:53,516 --> 01:20:55,450
It was so long ago.

1553
01:20:55,518 --> 01:20:59,113
I just remember that
I went through hypnosis

1554
01:20:59,188 --> 01:21:00,849
came out,
and it was in my mind.

1555
01:21:07,196 --> 01:21:08,629
19-year-old Jesse Friedman

1556
01:21:08,698 --> 01:21:11,633
was arraigned on more than
198 additional counts

1557
01:21:11,701 --> 01:21:13,293
of child sexual abuse.

1558
01:21:13,369 --> 01:21:18,807
This brings the total number of
sexual abuse charges to 245.

1559
01:21:18,874 --> 01:21:21,468
Jesse was grossly overcharged

1560
01:21:21,544 --> 01:21:24,638
and you're basically
terrorizing the defendant.

1561
01:21:24,714 --> 01:21:26,147
You're telling the defendant

1562
01:21:26,215 --> 01:21:27,978
"Look, if you plead guilty

1563
01:21:28,050 --> 01:21:29,813
you know,
we'll give you a good deal

1564
01:21:29,885 --> 01:21:32,649
and, on,
you know, 2 charges.

1565
01:21:32,722 --> 01:21:34,314
But if you insist
on going to trial

1566
01:21:34,390 --> 01:21:36,824
we're going to put
1,003 charges on you.

1567
01:21:36,892 --> 01:21:39,326
And if you're convicted
of all those charges

1568
01:21:39,395 --> 01:21:41,556
you're gonna rot in jail
the rest of your life. "

1569
01:21:42,565 --> 01:21:46,661
I was told that
if he went to trial

1570
01:21:46,736 --> 01:21:52,072
the judge would give
3 consecutive sentences.

1571
01:21:53,075 --> 01:21:54,838
Instead of concurrent

1572
01:21:54,910 --> 01:21:57,003
the sentencing
would be consecutive.

1573
01:21:57,079 --> 01:21:58,410
I said, "Oh, my god. "

1574
01:21:59,915 --> 01:22:01,849
She just kept telling me
over and over

1575
01:22:01,917 --> 01:22:03,851
"The only thing to do
is to plead guilty

1576
01:22:03,919 --> 01:22:04,943
and to get the
best deal you can.

1577
01:22:05,087 --> 01:22:06,179
You can't go to trial.

1578
01:22:06,255 --> 01:22:08,018
It doesn't matter
if you're guilty or innocent.

1579
01:22:08,090 --> 01:22:10,354
You can't go to trial,
because if you go to trial

1580
01:22:10,426 --> 01:22:12,519
you're gonna go to prison
for the rest of your life. "

1581
01:22:12,595 --> 01:22:13,857
I said, "But Ma,
I didn't do it. "

1582
01:22:13,929 --> 01:22:15,021
She said,
"That doesn't matter.

1583
01:22:15,097 --> 01:22:16,428
You have to plead guilty. "

1584
01:22:17,767 --> 01:22:22,033
You have to understand,
this is a 19-year-old kid

1585
01:22:22,104 --> 01:22:27,701
and he is now facing the most
heinous charge known to man

1586
01:22:27,777 --> 01:22:31,713
and everyone in the world

1587
01:22:31,781 --> 01:22:36,115
slowly but surely,
was turning against him.

1588
01:22:39,789 --> 01:22:41,222
I don't care about my parents.

1589
01:22:41,290 --> 01:22:42,780
I wish it was just my brothers.

1590
01:22:45,628 --> 01:22:47,220
Oh, fuck.

1591
01:22:47,296 --> 01:22:49,287
I don't care about my mother,
that's for sure.

1592
01:22:50,466 --> 01:22:51,728
If my brothers were OK

1593
01:22:51,801 --> 01:22:54,235
then my mother could go
to fucking hell.

1594
01:22:54,303 --> 01:22:56,066
My father is not going
to survive

1595
01:22:56,138 --> 01:23:00,074
if my brother
gets incarcerated.

1596
01:23:00,142 --> 01:23:02,235
So

1597
01:23:02,311 --> 01:23:07,078
so when the guilty verdict
comes in on Jesse

1598
01:23:07,149 --> 01:23:08,912
my father's
gonna kill himself.

1599
01:23:08,984 --> 01:23:11,578
Jesse's gonna go to jail
for the rest of his life.

1600
01:23:11,654 --> 01:23:13,315
Seth is gonna move west.

1601
01:23:15,825 --> 01:23:17,315
Fuck fuck.

1602
01:23:23,165 --> 01:23:27,101
I received a telephone call
from Jesse asking to see me

1603
01:23:27,169 --> 01:23:30,605
and Jesse told me
that he wanted to plead guilty.

1604
01:23:30,673 --> 01:23:35,610
In 1988, there was no way
that a jury in Nassau County

1605
01:23:35,678 --> 01:23:37,612
who had been reading
the newspaper headlines

1606
01:23:37,680 --> 01:23:39,773
in "Newsday" for over a year

1607
01:23:39,849 --> 01:23:42,113
those people were never
going to listen

1608
01:23:42,184 --> 01:23:44,778
to anything
the defense had to say

1609
01:23:44,854 --> 01:23:46,617
and I was absolutely
terrified

1610
01:23:46,689 --> 01:23:48,350
of going to prison
for 100 years.

1611
01:23:50,125 --> 01:23:52,616
Jesse had always
maintained his innocence.

1612
01:23:52,695 --> 01:23:55,960
I don't work out deals
for people who are innocent.

1613
01:23:56,031 --> 01:24:00,297
And my first reaction was,
"I'm not gonna do it.

1614
01:24:00,369 --> 01:24:02,530
You're not guilty,
you're not pleading guilty. "

1615
01:24:03,873 --> 01:24:06,637
And at that point,
he told me that

1616
01:24:06,709 --> 01:24:08,040
"I have something to tell you. "

1617
01:24:09,879 --> 01:24:13,474
And with tears rolling down
his eyes, literally

1618
01:24:13,549 --> 01:24:19,977
he told me that he was abused by
his father growing up

1619
01:24:20,055 --> 01:24:24,151
and that while he never enjoyed
the sexual part of that

1620
01:24:24,226 --> 01:24:26,490
he did enjoy the attention
his father gave him

1621
01:24:26,562 --> 01:24:27,893
and being with his father

1622
01:24:29,732 --> 01:24:34,669
and that not everything
he had said

1623
01:24:34,737 --> 01:24:38,332
about nothing happened
was true.

1624
01:24:38,407 --> 01:24:41,342
Peter Panaro
was personally convinced

1625
01:24:41,410 --> 01:24:43,674
that my father
had sexually abused me

1626
01:24:43,746 --> 01:24:45,008
and nothing I could say

1627
01:24:45,080 --> 01:24:47,844
could dissuade Peter
from this notion.

1628
01:24:47,917 --> 01:24:52,854
Jesse felt that
if Judge Boklan knew

1629
01:24:52,922 --> 01:24:57,018
that he also was a victim
of his father

1630
01:24:57,092 --> 01:25:00,528
that she might consider
the plea negotiations

1631
01:25:00,596 --> 01:25:03,531
in a more favorable way.

1632
01:25:03,599 --> 01:25:05,863
He came up with this strategy.

1633
01:25:05,935 --> 01:25:08,529
It was Peter Panaro's
fictionalized story

1634
01:25:08,604 --> 01:25:09,866
that he fed to me

1635
01:25:09,939 --> 01:25:13,466
and said, "If you say this,
it's gonna look good for you. "

1636
01:25:13,542 --> 01:25:14,804
I told him
I wouldn't do it.

1637
01:25:14,877 --> 01:25:18,540
I told him, "Jesse, when you
plead guilty in open court

1638
01:25:18,614 --> 01:25:20,047
you're gonna have to admit

1639
01:25:20,115 --> 01:25:23,710
to this type
of anal sodomy 14 times.

1640
01:25:23,786 --> 01:25:25,879
And I'm not gonna
let you do that

1641
01:25:25,955 --> 01:25:27,115
unless you can admit it. "

1642
01:25:28,290 --> 01:25:29,882
He looked me
right in the eye

1643
01:25:29,959 --> 01:25:31,551
always liked to call me
by my name

1644
01:25:31,627 --> 01:25:32,889
before he made a statement

1645
01:25:32,962 --> 01:25:37,228
and said,
"Peter, I can admit it. "

1646
01:25:37,299 --> 01:25:40,393
The only concern
that Peter Panaro had

1647
01:25:40,469 --> 01:25:42,903
was that ethically
as a lawyer

1648
01:25:42,972 --> 01:25:45,566
he couldn't let
his client go into court

1649
01:25:45,641 --> 01:25:47,575
and say something happened

1650
01:25:47,643 --> 01:25:51,977
that he knew his client
had told him was a lie.

1651
01:25:57,987 --> 01:26:00,922
The private investigator wasn't
coming up with anything helpful.

1652
01:26:00,990 --> 01:26:03,083
There was not gonna be
any defense witnesses.

1653
01:26:03,158 --> 01:26:05,752
There wasn't any money
to hire experts.

1654
01:26:05,828 --> 01:26:08,592
Mom was insistent upon
there not being a trial.

1655
01:26:08,664 --> 01:26:10,757
Peter Panaro
wasn't believing me

1656
01:26:10,833 --> 01:26:13,324
no matter how many times
I told him nothing happened.

1657
01:26:19,675 --> 01:26:21,336
I just ran out of options.

1658
01:26:28,517 --> 01:26:30,508
Jesse was a very good baby.

1659
01:26:33,022 --> 01:26:36,287
I remember when we brought him
home from the hospital

1660
01:26:36,358 --> 01:26:40,124
and Arnie looked at
that baby and he said

1661
01:26:40,195 --> 01:26:42,459
"That child is marvelous.

1662
01:26:42,531 --> 01:26:44,123
He's wonderful"

1663
01:26:44,199 --> 01:26:46,190
and he was so thrilled.

1664
01:26:50,372 --> 01:26:53,637
And David was the big brother

1665
01:26:53,709 --> 01:26:56,371
and he used to
take care of Jesse.

1666
01:26:58,047 --> 01:27:00,140
We used to let
David watch him

1667
01:27:00,215 --> 01:27:04,049
and he was very protective
of his baby brother.

1668
01:27:11,393 --> 01:27:12,553
It's amazing.

1669
01:27:13,896 --> 01:27:15,329
Six months from now

1670
01:27:15,397 --> 01:27:18,332
I already don't have
a father or a mother.

1671
01:27:18,400 --> 01:27:20,732
Six months from now
I'm not gonna have my brother.

1672
01:27:23,238 --> 01:27:24,671
If I ever watch this

1673
01:27:24,740 --> 01:27:26,173
I don't know when it's gonna be.

1674
01:27:26,241 --> 01:27:28,232
I don't know where I'm gonna be.

1675
01:27:30,746 --> 01:27:32,839
I don't know what's
gonna happen to my family.

1676
01:27:32,915 --> 01:27:34,246
I'm so scared.

1677
01:27:55,604 --> 01:27:58,539
I don't want to have
to spend the next 8 hours

1678
01:27:58,607 --> 01:28:00,541
screaming with my sons
and fighting with them.

1679
01:28:00,609 --> 01:28:02,042
Then don't.

1680
01:28:02,111 --> 01:28:05,046
I want them out of this house
tomorrow morning.

1681
01:28:05,114 --> 01:28:06,706
Mom

1682
01:28:06,782 --> 01:28:08,044
I don't give a shit.

1683
01:28:08,117 --> 01:28:09,880
I want you out of this house
tomorrow morning.

1684
01:28:09,952 --> 01:28:11,214
You may not
give a shit about Jesse

1685
01:28:11,286 --> 01:28:13,379
but we are here for Jesse.

1686
01:28:13,455 --> 01:28:16,219
What are you all
talking about here?

1687
01:28:16,291 --> 01:28:18,054
Can't you put your anger aside
for one minute?

1688
01:28:18,127 --> 01:28:22,223
I cannot put my anger aside
about you.

1689
01:28:22,297 --> 01:28:25,733
You have been nothing but
hateful, hostile, and angry

1690
01:28:25,801 --> 01:28:27,792
ever since this began.

1691
01:28:29,138 --> 01:28:30,901
OK, Jess, we're on.

1692
01:28:30,973 --> 01:28:33,237
Ta da. I feel like shit.

1693
01:28:33,308 --> 01:28:34,741
What's today's date?

1694
01:28:34,810 --> 01:28:37,574
Today's the day
before I went to jail.

1695
01:28:37,646 --> 01:28:39,409
"Went" to jail?

1696
01:28:39,481 --> 01:28:40,914
- I'm going to jail.
- Because we're watching it.

1697
01:28:40,983 --> 01:28:43,247
We're gonna be watching this
after I'm already out of jail.

1698
01:28:43,318 --> 01:28:45,582
After 4, 41/2 years

1699
01:28:45,654 --> 01:28:47,246
because the case gets reopened.

1700
01:28:47,322 --> 01:28:50,758
At this point in time,
my life is as good as over.

1701
01:28:50,826 --> 01:28:54,159
It is terminated at this point
only to resume at a later date.

1702
01:28:56,665 --> 01:28:58,326
This one'll go,
this one'll shatter.

1703
01:28:59,668 --> 01:29:02,603
The night before Jesse's plea
we stayed up all night.

1704
01:29:02,671 --> 01:29:04,263
Maybe I shot the videotape

1705
01:29:04,339 --> 01:29:06,500
so that I wouldn't
have to remember it myself.

1706
01:29:07,676 --> 01:29:09,268
It's a possibility

1707
01:29:09,344 --> 01:29:12,177
because I don't really remember
it outside of the tape.

1708
01:29:14,016 --> 01:29:16,280
Like when your parents take
pictures of you

1709
01:29:16,351 --> 01:29:17,443
do you remember being there

1710
01:29:17,519 --> 01:29:18,952
or do you remember
just the photograph

1711
01:29:19,021 --> 01:29:20,181
hanging on the wall?

1712
01:29:23,358 --> 01:29:31,288
Even if I'm facing the worst
scenario possible tomorrow

1713
01:29:31,366 --> 01:29:33,527
and for every day
following it

1714
01:29:35,204 --> 01:29:39,698
I have to think tonight
that it's not gonna be that bad.

1715
01:29:41,710 --> 01:29:43,302
Goodness knows

1716
01:29:43,378 --> 01:29:44,868
I don't want to look
like my father.

1717
01:29:46,215 --> 01:29:48,979
Goodness knows,
I want to separate myself

1718
01:29:49,051 --> 01:29:51,645
from Arnold Friedman
as much as possible

1719
01:29:51,720 --> 01:29:53,483
and I'm not throwing
chairs tomorrow.

1720
01:29:53,555 --> 01:29:54,715
Good.

1721
01:30:00,395 --> 01:30:04,161
And if this trial
were postponed for 3 years

1722
01:30:04,233 --> 01:30:05,564
in 3 years, I would win.

1723
01:30:07,069 --> 01:30:09,003
But here today,
at this point

1724
01:30:09,071 --> 01:30:10,834
trying to start a trial
in two weeks

1725
01:30:10,906 --> 01:30:12,498
I would lose this trial.

1726
01:30:12,574 --> 01:30:13,836
We feel this way

1727
01:30:13,909 --> 01:30:16,571
and that is
what would happen.

1728
01:30:34,096 --> 01:30:35,256
So what are you thinking, Jess?

1729
01:30:40,602 --> 01:30:42,365
I'm not.

1730
01:30:42,437 --> 01:30:44,428
You're avoiding?

1731
01:30:54,449 --> 01:30:55,609
Well, I gotta eat something.

1732
01:30:58,287 --> 01:30:59,379
I'm proud to say

1733
01:30:59,454 --> 01:31:03,390
I've managed to leave barely
any gas in the car.

1734
01:31:03,458 --> 01:31:04,550
See, just our luck

1735
01:31:04,626 --> 01:31:06,389
we'll be trapped
at the house.

1736
01:31:06,461 --> 01:31:08,122
We'll run out of gas
at the house.

1737
01:31:14,469 --> 01:31:16,232
- You a child molester, Jess?
- Nope.

1738
01:31:16,305 --> 01:31:17,397
Did you ever do it?

1739
01:31:17,472 --> 01:31:18,564
Never touched a kid.

1740
01:31:18,640 --> 01:31:19,902
Did you do what
they said you did?

1741
01:31:19,975 --> 01:31:21,408
I never touched a kid.

1742
01:31:21,476 --> 01:31:24,070
I never saw my father
touch a kid.

1743
01:31:24,146 --> 01:31:25,238
Good.

1744
01:31:25,314 --> 01:31:26,645
Yeah, but still,
you must have done it.

1745
01:31:27,649 --> 01:31:29,742
Yeah, but surely
something has happened.

1746
01:31:29,818 --> 01:31:31,251
It must, something.

1747
01:31:31,320 --> 01:31:32,412
Because the police
say it's true.

1748
01:31:32,487 --> 01:31:33,579
OK, you never
touched a kid, right?

1749
01:31:33,655 --> 01:31:34,917
Well, if something happened

1750
01:31:34,990 --> 01:31:36,480
it didn't happen
while I was there.

1751
01:31:37,826 --> 01:31:39,418
And it was a minimal incident

1752
01:31:39,494 --> 01:31:42,088
because the kid didn't
say anything about it.

1753
01:31:42,164 --> 01:31:43,597
But the police,
how could they be lying?

1754
01:31:43,665 --> 01:31:44,825
Shut up, Seth.

1755
01:31:48,170 --> 01:31:49,262
The children

1756
01:31:49,338 --> 01:31:53,434
the 14 children in this case
are clearly victims.

1757
01:31:53,508 --> 01:31:55,271
No one could ever argue that.

1758
01:31:55,344 --> 01:31:58,108
The real culprit here
is Arnold Friedman.

1759
01:31:58,180 --> 01:31:59,772
The man is a monster.

1760
01:31:59,848 --> 01:32:01,839
He abused him
and he molested him.

1761
01:32:02,851 --> 01:32:03,943
This can't be overlooked.

1762
01:32:04,019 --> 01:32:07,113
I can't believe we live
in such a cold society

1763
01:32:07,189 --> 01:32:09,623
that no one could look at this
man and understand that.

1764
01:32:09,691 --> 01:32:11,955
My father raised me confused

1765
01:32:12,027 --> 01:32:13,961
about what was right
and what was wrong

1766
01:32:14,029 --> 01:32:16,691
and I realize now
how terribly wrong it all was.

1767
01:32:18,533 --> 01:32:21,366
I wish I could have done
something to stop it sooner.

1768
01:32:23,038 --> 01:32:24,630
I wish there was something
I could have done.

1769
01:32:24,706 --> 01:32:26,037
I'm very, I'm

1770
01:32:29,544 --> 01:32:31,034
I'm just so sorry it happened.

1771
01:32:32,381 --> 01:32:35,646
Judge Boklan
sternly looked down

1772
01:32:35,717 --> 01:32:39,653
and said that she recommended
to the parole board

1773
01:32:39,721 --> 01:32:46,149
that he serve the maximum period
of time permitted by law

1774
01:32:46,228 --> 01:32:52,827
a statement which I felt
was harsh and unnecessary

1775
01:32:52,901 --> 01:32:56,564
to a 19-year-old
under these circumstances.

1776
01:32:57,906 --> 01:32:58,998
Jesse was a victim.

1777
01:32:59,074 --> 01:33:01,668
There's no question,
Jesse was a victim

1778
01:33:01,743 --> 01:33:03,734
but even when he was caught

1779
01:33:05,247 --> 01:33:10,184
Jesse never expressed any kind
of sympathy for these kids

1780
01:33:10,252 --> 01:33:11,844
and as a matter of fact

1781
01:33:11,920 --> 01:33:14,013
on the day that
the plea was taken

1782
01:33:14,089 --> 01:33:17,354
Jesse was dancing and singing on
the courthouse steps

1783
01:33:17,426 --> 01:33:21,192
while being videotaped by
his two brothers.

1784
01:33:21,263 --> 01:33:23,094
My brain hurts!

1785
01:33:25,434 --> 01:33:27,698
It'll have to come out.

1786
01:33:27,769 --> 01:33:30,704
My brain, but I'm using it!

1787
01:33:30,772 --> 01:33:32,364
But I'm using it!

1788
01:33:32,441 --> 01:33:33,601
Nurse!

1789
01:33:34,609 --> 01:33:36,372
Nurse!

1790
01:33:36,445 --> 01:33:37,878
They were taking pictures.

1791
01:33:37,946 --> 01:33:40,210
I remember someone
brought that to my attention.

1792
01:33:40,282 --> 01:33:41,544
We looked out the window.

1793
01:33:41,616 --> 01:33:42,844
Because I'm saying
to myself

1794
01:33:42,918 --> 01:33:44,215
"This is very bizarre. "

1795
01:33:44,286 --> 01:33:48,052
I mean he's about to go to jail
for the next 6 to 18 years

1796
01:33:48,123 --> 01:33:49,385
and he's out on
the courtroom steps

1797
01:33:49,458 --> 01:33:51,892
in some sort of
theatrical performance.

1798
01:33:51,960 --> 01:33:53,393
That is so funny,
when they're all

1799
01:33:53,462 --> 01:33:56,727
I think it was about
distracting ourselves

1800
01:33:56,798 --> 01:33:58,060
not necessarily
distracting Jesse.

1801
01:33:58,133 --> 01:33:59,293
Jesse was

1802
01:34:02,137 --> 01:34:03,729
I think he was
the most comfortable

1803
01:34:03,805 --> 01:34:05,136
about the whole situation.

1804
01:34:07,476 --> 01:34:08,636
You know

1805
01:34:10,145 --> 01:34:11,578
I don't know how
he has always been

1806
01:34:11,646 --> 01:34:13,807
the most comfortable about it,
but he has.

1807
01:34:15,150 --> 01:34:16,583
OK, right about now

1808
01:34:16,651 --> 01:34:19,586
we've been waiting for
a good two hours or so now

1809
01:34:19,654 --> 01:34:21,918
because evidently the parents

1810
01:34:21,990 --> 01:34:24,925
stormed Denis Dillon's
office this morning

1811
01:34:24,993 --> 01:34:27,257
when they received
the news last night

1812
01:34:27,329 --> 01:34:28,762
that I was to plead guilty

1813
01:34:28,830 --> 01:34:30,593
and they were not aware
of this fact.

1814
01:34:30,665 --> 01:34:33,099
They were not even aware
that negotiations were underway.

1815
01:34:33,168 --> 01:34:35,762
They did not want me
to have less than 10 to 30

1816
01:34:35,837 --> 01:34:37,771
and there are a lot of people

1817
01:34:37,839 --> 01:34:39,773
probably making all sorts of
angry statements

1818
01:34:39,841 --> 01:34:40,933
at this point in time.

1819
01:34:41,009 --> 01:34:43,944
I can imagine
what they're discussing.

1820
01:34:44,012 --> 01:34:47,175
The meeting must have,
just like our family.

1821
01:34:48,517 --> 01:34:50,951
Well, there wasn't really
much of them anyway

1822
01:34:51,019 --> 01:34:52,611
but that means
the meeting's over.

1823
01:34:52,687 --> 01:34:54,177
That means
the meeting's over.

1824
01:34:59,027 --> 01:35:00,187
Go ask them, Jess.

1825
01:35:02,197 --> 01:35:03,357
You hold it.
I'm not holding it.

1826
01:35:05,700 --> 01:35:06,860
Should I do it, Jess?

1827
01:35:17,879 --> 01:35:19,141
Oh, my god.

1828
01:35:19,214 --> 01:35:21,148
I can't believe this.

1829
01:35:21,216 --> 01:35:23,309
Oh, my god.

1830
01:35:23,385 --> 01:35:25,649
He raped my son!

1831
01:35:25,720 --> 01:35:26,982
Get them away from me!

1832
01:35:27,055 --> 01:35:28,818
They're animals.

1833
01:35:28,890 --> 01:35:30,380
Oh, my god,
I don't believe it.

1834
01:35:35,897 --> 01:35:37,057
Wow.

1835
01:37:00,315 --> 01:37:02,078
After Jesse went to jail

1836
01:37:02,150 --> 01:37:03,742
I know my friends
said to me

1837
01:37:03,818 --> 01:37:07,254
"Don't you feel, like,
terrible being alone

1838
01:37:07,322 --> 01:37:09,756
in such a big house?"

1839
01:37:09,824 --> 01:37:11,985
I said, "No, I feel calm. "

1840
01:37:13,161 --> 01:37:15,925
That's when I really started
becoming a person

1841
01:37:15,997 --> 01:37:18,431
and started to live.

1842
01:37:18,500 --> 01:37:20,491
Elaine divorced him
while he was in prison.

1843
01:37:21,503 --> 01:37:22,765
He settled into life there

1844
01:37:22,837 --> 01:37:25,101
You can't say
it was good in prison

1845
01:37:25,173 --> 01:37:27,334
but it was as good
as it could get for him.

1846
01:37:28,510 --> 01:37:30,774
But of course,
the torment continued

1847
01:37:30,845 --> 01:37:33,006
and got worse because of Jesse.

1848
01:37:34,015 --> 01:37:35,505
My brother never
got over the guilt.

1849
01:37:36,518 --> 01:37:38,611
He had talked about
taking his life

1850
01:37:38,687 --> 01:37:41,622
because he had this insurance
policy he had taken out.

1851
01:37:41,690 --> 01:37:43,954
I think it was $250,000,
1/4 million

1852
01:37:44,025 --> 01:37:46,289
and Jesse was the beneficiary.

1853
01:37:46,361 --> 01:37:49,125
He said, "This is the only thing
I have left to give Jesse

1854
01:37:49,197 --> 01:37:50,289
So he has money
when he gets out

1855
01:37:50,365 --> 01:37:52,128
and he can make some kind of
life for himself

1856
01:37:52,200 --> 01:37:54,794
because I've screwed it up
otherwise for him. "

1857
01:37:54,869 --> 01:37:58,305
By that time, that clause
in the insurance policy

1858
01:37:58,373 --> 01:38:02,207
where suicide was payable
had come into effect.

1859
01:38:05,046 --> 01:38:07,139
And this is
the coroner's report.

1860
01:38:07,215 --> 01:38:10,548
It describes the cause of death
as doxepin intoxication

1861
01:38:11,720 --> 01:38:13,312
which basically means
that Arnold took

1862
01:38:13,388 --> 01:38:15,720
a massive overdose
of antidepressants.

1863
01:38:18,893 --> 01:38:20,827
I took a deep breath
and I said

1864
01:38:20,895 --> 01:38:22,157
"It's over, David.

1865
01:38:22,230 --> 01:38:23,322
He's out of his misery.

1866
01:38:23,398 --> 01:38:24,558
It's over. "

1867
01:38:25,900 --> 01:38:26,992
I thought it was a blessing

1868
01:38:27,068 --> 01:38:29,502
because the guilt
he was carrying

1869
01:38:29,571 --> 01:38:30,902
he was so unhappy.

1870
01:38:33,575 --> 01:38:36,066
He was out
of his misery.

1871
01:38:37,412 --> 01:38:38,504
The rest of the family wasn't

1872
01:38:38,580 --> 01:38:39,740
but he was.

1873
01:38:40,915 --> 01:38:42,246
I found it a blessing.

1874
01:38:44,085 --> 01:38:50,684
Let me entertain you

1875
01:38:50,759 --> 01:38:55,856
Let me make you smile.

1876
01:38:55,930 --> 01:38:58,194
It's unbelievably difficult.

1877
01:38:58,266 --> 01:38:59,699
I have to read
these horrible letters

1878
01:38:59,768 --> 01:39:02,362
about my brother being
almost killed in prison.

1879
01:39:02,437 --> 01:39:04,701
My friends call me,
I'm crying.

1880
01:39:04,773 --> 01:39:07,207
"Why are you crying?"
I can't tell them.

1881
01:39:07,275 --> 01:39:08,367
None of the people
that do what I do

1882
01:39:08,443 --> 01:39:09,603
know about this story.

1883
01:39:11,279 --> 01:39:14,043
Just the intimation
of something like this

1884
01:39:14,115 --> 01:39:15,446
can ruin someone's career.

1885
01:39:17,118 --> 01:39:19,382
And I'm always afraid
that's going to happen.

1886
01:39:19,454 --> 01:39:25,723
So let me entertain you

1887
01:39:25,794 --> 01:39:33,291
And we'll have
a real good time

1888
01:39:38,473 --> 01:39:42,466
I feel I will never
really know the truth.

1889
01:39:44,646 --> 01:39:46,910
But the one truthful thing

1890
01:39:46,981 --> 01:39:49,142
or the honest thing we know

1891
01:39:50,318 --> 01:39:52,411
Howard loved his brother.

1892
01:39:52,487 --> 01:39:54,250
Howard loved his family.

1893
01:39:54,322 --> 01:39:55,482
Loves his family.

1894
01:39:59,494 --> 01:40:01,086
And I believed him
when he said

1895
01:40:01,162 --> 01:40:03,153
he didn't do
those terrible things.

1896
01:40:04,165 --> 01:40:05,325
I believed him.

1897
01:40:06,501 --> 01:40:09,163
Arnold had a need
to confess

1898
01:40:11,172 --> 01:40:13,003
and he had a need
to go to jail.

1899
01:40:15,510 --> 01:40:18,843
And the sad thing is
that he took his son with him.

1900
01:42:10,959 --> 01:42:12,221
What's the term about families?

1901
01:42:12,293 --> 01:42:13,453
Dysfunctional?

1902
01:42:15,463 --> 01:42:16,623
Numero uno.

1903
01:42:37,485 --> 01:42:39,146
It was not the way
it was supposed to end.

1904
01:42:40,989 --> 01:42:43,583
People were supposed to realize
that all of this was nonsense

1905
01:42:43,658 --> 01:42:47,150
and we'd try to go back to
living our normal lives.

1906
01:42:50,498 --> 01:42:52,489
Hey! Hi, everyone!

1907
01:42:58,840 --> 01:43:02,276
I would have to stare at Arnold
across the dinner table

1908
01:43:02,343 --> 01:43:03,833
and it was just
the two of us.

1909
01:43:06,180 --> 01:43:08,114
There was really
nothing between us

1910
01:43:08,182 --> 01:43:11,015
except these children
that we yelled at.

1911
01:43:27,535 --> 01:43:31,301
We named the cottage
"Peaceful Pond Cottage"

1912
01:43:31,372 --> 01:43:35,365
because we were looking for
a place of healing and peace.

1913
01:43:38,546 --> 01:43:40,980
Any comment on
your personal life, sir?

1914
01:43:41,049 --> 01:43:42,209
It's personal.

1915
01:44:15,416 --> 01:44:16,508
Oh, my god.

1916
01:44:16,584 --> 01:44:19,576
Hey, how you doing?

1917
01:44:21,422 --> 01:44:23,356
Oh, my god.

1918
01:44:23,424 --> 01:44:25,016
Oh, my god.

1919
01:44:25,093 --> 01:44:26,754
Yes! Finally.

1920
01:44:35,269 --> 01:44:37,863
- Is that him?
- That could be he.

1921
01:44:37,939 --> 01:44:39,201
Shit.

1922
01:44:39,273 --> 01:44:40,433
Oh, my god.

1923
01:44:48,783 --> 01:44:50,444
Oh, my god.

1924
01:44:55,790 --> 01:44:56,950
Room service.

1925
01:45:02,130 --> 01:45:03,722
Oh, god.

1926
01:45:03,798 --> 01:45:05,789
You order a son?
You looking for me?

1927
01:45:15,810 --> 01:45:17,573
Surprise.

1928
01:45:17,645 --> 01:45:18,737
Hi. Look at me.

1929
01:45:18,813 --> 01:45:19,973
Look.

1930
01:45:29,974 --> 01:45:32,774