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Long before I launched Ashley
Madison there were affairs,
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and long after I'm gone
there'll be affairs
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and so what I'm just
trying to do is help people
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have the most perfect affair.
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Biderman says he built a
billion-dollar business
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betting on infidelity.
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25 million members
in 37 countries.
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My phone was dancing across
the table. It was crazy.
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They made it sound like it was this
play land of people hooking up...
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...it had glamour, sex and crime,
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hacking and danger.
It had everything.
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Kind of a quick
hookup kind of site...
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This is the story
of a website,
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and the rise and fall of its
ambitious founder Noel Biderman.
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The audacious Ashley Madison
dot com was set up in 2011
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as a safe place to
arrange illicit affairs.
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By 2006 the site had 1.1million
users in North America
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and had
launched in Europe.
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Its growth after that
was extraordinary.
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-26 million people, that's growth!
-It's good business.
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What is your goal?
Just keep goin'?
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World domination,
keep going to the moon.
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In 2007 Biderman became CEO
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and found himself in the
middle of a media storm.
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I'm not necessarily
encouraging infidelity
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I don't think it needs
that much encouragement.
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How are you not
encouraging infidelity?
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Noel Biderman appeared
continuously on TV chat shows
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defending and
promoting the site.
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He called himself the
king of infidelity.
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His wife, Amanda, also took
part in the promotions.
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I see it as a platform that
helps people stay married,
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they help millions of
people find contentment,
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passion and happiness.
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Noel said that society
was changing,
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the model of relationships
that we have from the past
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and at the moment
isn't working.
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A lot of people are
having affairs and
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it's all done behind
people's backs.
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It's destructive for families.
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And they said that they were leading
the way in helping with this.
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I was separated
from my wife,
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I was working a lot. It's
hard to meet people.
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Christopher was looking
for a like-minded woman
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to have an affair with.
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The big attraction to it
was that it's a hookup,
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it's not a date. There
isn't any of the risk,
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you know, everybody
knows where they stand.
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It was definitely more
geared towards sort of the,
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as I like to say, the afternoon
delight, kind of situation.
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Kind of a quick hook
up kind of site.
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Like any dating site, users
had to choose profile names
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and fill
in their preferences.
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Experimenting with tantric sex.
One-night stand...
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Although these choices
were a little more direct than usual.
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...likes to be watched, cuddling
and hugging, and erotic movies.
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Sounds like an
interesting weekend.
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Tamsin is a marketing
consultant and a serial mistress.
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She has chosen affairs to committed
relationships most of her life.
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Initially, you know, men are very hesitant
to make the first move.
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When we start talking
that's the first thing.
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They want to find out, are you real?
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Do you really live in the United States?
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And that's when I would
start getting emails saying
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that this woman checked
out your profile,
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she wants to talk to you, this
person's interested in you.
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And because if you
didn't have a paid account,
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you hadn't bought the credits,
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you couldn't see the actual
pictures of the profiles
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they were all blurred.
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Men had to buy credits
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in order to reply to messages
sent to them.
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And then once you start talking,
inevitably for some strange reason,
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men have this insatiable desire
to send you dick pictures.
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Pictures of their penises. Sometimes
it's even the first picture.
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I don't even know what
their face looks like.
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Okay.
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People have affairs and cheat
for a lot of different reasons,
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it's not always just physical.
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We all like to think it's
that but in reality even men
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the vast majority are seeking out an
affair for emotional reasons as well.
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I did meet and talk
to quite a few men,
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a lot of politicians...
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A lot of corporate CEOs,
a lot of guys
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who are just in middle management,
just not happy.
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I mean that was one thing
about Ashley Madison,
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you got everything from
construction workers and students
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so it was pretty interesting.
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People want more from
their relationships,
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more from their lives and
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not feeling so ashamed
to be honest about
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what they really want.
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People are gonna have
affairs anyway.
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It's always happened,
it's on an increase.
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It wasn't in the workplace.
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It wasn't with close
friends of the family.
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I got that concept.
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It's less damaging,
people's needs get met.
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Ashley Madison.com was bought
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by another of Noel's companies,
Avid Life Media in 2007.
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Their promotional videos gave a
veneer of corporate acceptability
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to otherwise niche products.
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Two years later they created
EstablishedMen.com and
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CougarLife.com calling them
innovative dating services.
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But the main money maker
was always Ashley Madison.
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# Looking for someone
other than my wife #
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# Other than my wife
Ashley Madison's right #
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Ashley Madison
became known for their cheeky,
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often outrageous press campaigns.
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# other than my wife #
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This cheesy advert
was banned by Australian regulators.
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# Looking for someone
other than my wife #
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# Other than my wife
Ashley Madison's right #
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They courted
controversy around the world,
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translating their glossy
ads everywhere they went.
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In 2009 Tiger Woods was
caught cheating on his wife.
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Within a week Ashley Madison
had offered to pay him
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5 million dollars to be
the face of the brand.
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He didn't take the money,
but 4 months later
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they had sponsored the Tiger Woods
Mistress Pageant
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on The Howard Stern Show.
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Here's our guest
judge Noel Biderman.
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Dude put up a hundred grand.
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It seemed that
no gimmick was too tabloid.
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...she's mistress number four.
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The peculiar genius not just
of their marketing efforts
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but I think of their leadership seems
to be to be able to take anything,
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even negative news and turn it
into a promotional opportunity.
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You are Tiger Woods Mistress,
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here comes Noel Biderman with
a check for 75,000 dollars.
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Despite the 2008
economic downturn, Ashley Madison appeared to be
recession-proof.
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By 2015 Avid Life Media announced
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that they had grossed
115 million dollars in the previous year,
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up 45 per cent.
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Pre-tax profits came in
at 55 million dollars.
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But then, on 19th July last
year, everything changed.
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Brian Krebbs, a tech journalist,
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revealed that Ashley
Madison had been hacked.
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Employees had opened
their computers
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to find an illustrated
message on their screens.
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The Impact Team hackers
threatened to publish
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stolen data unless Ashley Madison
and Established Men
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shut down
their controversial websites.
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The consequences for
not complying as noted
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in this threat would be the
release of Ashley Madison
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and Established Men client list,
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including their names, client
profiles and credit card data.
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By the time I've read
the story it hit them,
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it was all over the world.
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I think every major news agency had
already covered it within 6 to 12 hours.
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Avid Life Media
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has been fully cooperating
with the police investigation.
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This hack is one of the largest
data breaches in the world.
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I was in a meeting
and all of a sudden
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my phone started dancing
across the table,
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and I'm trying to concentrate,
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and I'm looking over
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and I'm seeing the names
of business associates,
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my business clients,
friends of mine,
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people I had met on
Ashley Madison contacting me.
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And my heart sank.
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The hack appeared very
strange because
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it was so hollywoodesque as
if it had been scripted.
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Crazily so, I mean when you
cover hacks all the time,
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it's always very dry.
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Nobody's very interested in the details
of how they actually got the data
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and spread it.
But this was different.
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The impact team
gave Avid Life 30 days
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to shut down their sites
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enough time for the media
to get into frenzy.
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The hackers were blackmailing with
the threat of more data to come.
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Everyone was
desperate to know who was using
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the world's number one
website for adultery?
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When the company didn't comply,
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over 30 million user details
were released
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Across the world suspicious partners
frantically tried to find out
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if their partner was among them.
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One Australian radio show
went a step further:
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They were happy to help trawl
through the data dump. Live on air.
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When it came on the news
about the Ashley Madison hack
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he sort of went a bit funny
and you've got his details
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We've got his details here.
And his details have revealed
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that he's actually on the website, Joe.
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-Yeah, I'm sorry
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Are you freaking kidding me?
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The ripple effect of the
impact team's actions
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has and will continue to
have a long term social
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and economic impact, and
they have already sparked
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spinoffs of crimes and
further victimization.
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I had quite a few of the gentlemen
that I had met and talked to
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their wives were decimated and hurt
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and they wanted to talk.
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As of this morning we have two
unconfirmed reports
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of suicides associated
because of the leak
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of Ashley Madison's customers profiles.
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00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,800
This being covered as if
the CIA had been hacked.
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00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,200
What is so interesting here is that
somebody would want to do this.
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00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,720
...there's lipstick. Who is she?
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00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,600
Many celebrities,
politicians, religious leaders
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00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:18,760
and military personnel were
reported to be members.
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00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:20,720
Just tell me her name, you
might as well tell me.
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00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:22,720
This was brought to
wife's attention.
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00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,400
She has forgiven me for this
mistake that I've made.
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00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,120
I've sought forgiveness to God
and he's forgiven me
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00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,120
so I've been completely
cleansed of this sin.
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00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,640
After the frenzy
around user identities had died down,
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00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,160
the media turned its attention
to the business itself.
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00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:46,160
It became obvious that Avid Life Media
profited from a wide range of websites.
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00:11:48,680 --> 00:11:51,680
And not all of them
were dating services.
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00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:02,320
Ashley Madison's meteoric
rise continued unabated
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00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:08,240
and by 2015 they claimed to
have over 30 million users.
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00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,520
-Alex.
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00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,480
They even launched their very
own Affair Anywhere mobile app
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00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:18,480
and brazenly spread the
word around the globe.
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00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:29,960
But on the 19th July the site was
hacked with catastrophic effects.
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00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:34,000
It would become one of the largest
cyber breaches of all time.
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00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,560
Multiple sites are
now being downloaded
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00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:39,920
nobody is going to be able
to erase that information.
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00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,240
But despite the sensitivity
of the website,
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00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:43,280
we now know that
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00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,000
Ashley Madison was warned
of security vulnerabilities
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00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,720
a number of times before
the 2015 scandal.
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00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,880
The Philippines has become an
unlikely global cyber hotspot.
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00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,640
Jayson Zabate is a
Filipino hacker.
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00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,640
He managed to infiltrate
the website in the months
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00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,320
before the disastrous
hack of July 2015.
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00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:14,880
Just checking Ashley Madison
website.
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00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,120
I try to hack it.
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00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:22,160
I check the code and find
what is the flaw or the weaknesses.
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00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,640
Jayson is part of an international
community of cyber bounty hunters
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00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,520
known as white hat hackers.
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00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:33,440
My job is to help keep companies secure.
I don't want to be a black hat.
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00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:35,040
I am not a bad guy.
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00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,240
These hackers can make a
lot of money by showing
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00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,200
large companies where their
vulnerabilities lie.
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00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,360
Jayson pays his
university fees this way.
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00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,120
He found a way into
Ashley Madison relatively quickly.
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00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:57,600
I have found cross-site scripting and
bypassing cross-site request forgery.
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00:13:57,680 --> 00:14:01,600
That will allow an attacker
to change profile details.
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00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:03,920
Jayson told Avid Life Media
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00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,720
he had managed to find a
flaw in their security
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00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,480
and they paid him a small fee
in return for information.
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00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:11,000
But it was too late.
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00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,120
The Impact Team of hackers had
apparently been accessing
245
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,080
the site for a long time
before Jayson got there.
246
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,920
Impact Team claims they
had been watching the site grow
247
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,480
for some time to the tens
of millions of users.
248
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,240
And they said they wanted to stop
the next 60 million customers.
249
00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:32,400
They likened Avid Life Media to
a drug dealer abusing addicts.
250
00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,520
Joseph Cox believes
he is the only journalist
251
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,600
to have had contact with the
Impact hackers themselves.
252
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:43,200
Impact Team said when they hacked
Ashley Madison no one was watching.
253
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,400
As in there were very few
security barriers
254
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,480
to getting into the network
and they also said
255
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,880
it was possible to hop from
different parts of the network
256
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:53,880
with a very simple password.
257
00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:56,560
And this had been in the
work for some time.
258
00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,760
They said that they had
been exfiltrating the data
259
00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:01,320
over a number of years.
260
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,360
Ashley Madison talked
a good game about their security
261
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:09,120
but as we've seen security was not
at the top of their agenda,
262
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,200
what was at the top of their
agenda was making money.
263
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,720
Jeremy Bullock is a data analyst
264
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,320
who used the information
released in the hack to analyze
265
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,240
Ashley Madison's business practices.
266
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:23,080
He was one of the first to identify
the company's use of fembots.
267
00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,120
When he looked at the
email addresses of users,
268
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,040
he discovered 837 individual members
269
00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,120
that all shared
the same email address.
270
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,320
These seemed to be fake profiles
271
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,400
who were programmed
to contact real users.
272
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,720
They have also been called
engagers or iconians.
273
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,240
These were algorithms
that enabled
274
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,520
Ashley Madison
to contact gullible men
275
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,040
and pretend to
be available women
276
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:53,840
and made them part with money.
277
00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,000
Iconians would send
messages to users of the site.
278
00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,800
In order for men to chat
back they would have to pay.
279
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:07,120
Why 837 rather than 80,000?
Because they didn't need 80,000.
280
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,600
You could move these 837 around,
you could make them different.
281
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:12,160
They were programs now,
282
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,440
they didn't have to be manually
manipulated.
283
00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:17,080
Very very clever.
284
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:23,240
They made it sound like it was this
play land of people hooking up
285
00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,240
and there's millions
of women here
286
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,240
and they're all
interested in you.
287
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:33,880
I had contact with probably
around 200 profiles
288
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:38,040
and out of that I believe I spoke
with one actual person.
289
00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:44,080
But the idea that bots
290
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:48,600
and fake profiles were on the pages
of Ashley Madison was not new. As early as 2008
consumer attorney Fillippo Marchino
291
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,720
was preparing a case
against Avid Life Media
292
00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:58,960
on behalf of disgruntled users.
293
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:02,440
One of the first things we
did is we pulled the terms
294
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,920
and conditions off of the
website of Ashley Madison
295
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,560
and buried in the middle
was a couple of sentences
296
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:10,840
that read something
to the extent of
297
00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,240
"this is only an
entertainment website,
298
00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:17,160
you may be responding
or contacted by robots"
299
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,040
and that just did
not sound right
300
00:17:20,120 --> 00:17:23,520
because people were not
engaging AshleyMadison.com
301
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,600
to talk to robots.
302
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,800
That was not the crux of the idea.
303
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,520
Fillippo then came across
AshleyMadisonSucks.com,
304
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,200
a sounding board for
unhappy customers.
305
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:38,040
He discovered that
Biderman's company,
306
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:42,000
Avid Life Media was taking
legal action against the site.
307
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:47,880
We felt that AshleyMadisonSucks.com
was a rightful forum
308
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:49,920
for people to voice their opinions
309
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:55,360
and was in no way violative of
the trademark AshleyMadison.com.
310
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,280
Fillippo agreed to represent the owner
311
00:17:57,360 --> 00:17:59,240
of AshleyMadisonSucks.com.
312
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,640
What happened then is
that things got strange.
313
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,560
The proverbial shit hit
the proverbial fan if you will.
314
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,120
We became the target of
online activities that
315
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,200
couldn't really be
traced back to anybody.
316
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:18,200
But that were borderline bullying,
317
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:19,520
if you will.
318
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,080
Suddenly web pages
were created blackmailing
319
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,520
Fillippo's client and threatening him
if he didn't take down
320
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:27,800
AshleyMadisonSucks.com.
321
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,560
False Things were
written about Fillippo,
322
00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,920
his client, family members
and even his employees.
323
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,080
Anonymous emails were
sent with further threats
324
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:38,920
and untrue allegations:
325
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:43,000
one suggested that
Fillippo's client had HIV.
326
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,560
We were never actually
able to trace back
327
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:47,840
who these emails
were coming from
328
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:52,320
but it all started occurring
right at the same time.
329
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:57,320
It seemed to be a
coordinated attack
330
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:02,360
to dissuade my client from
proceeding with what he was doing.
331
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,400
In a separate effort
to get the site shut down,
332
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,800
Noel Biderman offered the owner
of AshleyMadisonSucks.com
333
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,040
money for the IP address.
334
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,440
He repeated his demands in a
phone call recorded by the owner
335
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,080
and in the presence
of two witnesses.
336
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:18,120
Give me the URL back
337
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,200
I offered you ten grand,
you're being an ass.
338
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,480
I'm being a schmuck.
You sent an email to my girlfriend.
339
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,120
You have no idea. Yeah
just wait for the world
340
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,080
of hurt I will bring on you.
Just wait.
341
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,120
I found out on the news
that they'd been hacked
342
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,720
and all their information
had been dumped.
343
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,280
I was very surprised to find
out that some documents
344
00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:42,120
which had been exchanged
between us and them
345
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,120
which otherwise
should have been confidential,
346
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:45,840
were now public domain.
347
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,360
You email my girlfriend and tell her
348
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,320
that you're putting up a site
about her and she may have HIV.
349
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,400
I'm going to do so
much worse to you.
350
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:56,880
You're messing with
my livelihood.
351
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:58,960
You choose to be an ass.
I'm being one back
352
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,760
but I can be ten times worse.
I have way more resources than you.
353
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,640
You have 24 hours my friend.
I'm going to drag you through the mud.
354
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:10,320
The first dump of information
355
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,800
by The Impact Team of hackers
revealed
356
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,240
information about many
users of the site
357
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,520
but the hack didn't end there.
358
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,880
It seemed on the surface
to be cut and dry,
359
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,320
here is a company,
it's been hacked.
360
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,800
Here are all the victims.
There's the story the end.
361
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:28,920
It should have blown
over, but it didn't.
362
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,360
What came then
took the hack to the next level.
363
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,720
Plenty of data breeches
take customer data,
364
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,880
emails addresses, passwords maybe
some other customer information
365
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,520
and depending on the website
that can be relatively easy.
366
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,200
But to get emails,
product source-code,
367
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:51,840
internal documents, the hacker really
has to take several more steps
368
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,560
and really penetrate
a company's network.
369
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,880
The second dump
of information related to the company
370
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,120
and the CEO himself.
371
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,520
There was so much email.
372
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:06,120
I mean it was every
email from 2011,
373
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,240
2012 all the way till June 2015.
374
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:10,400
A lot of email.
375
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,920
I'm totally guessing here but what
376
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:14,480
it looked like
somebody had thrown
377
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:16,760
a USB stick in
someone's computers
378
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,120
and just dragged
over email files.
379
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,920
I looked less like a
hack than a copy.
380
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,520
Not all data breaches
become public, I mean
381
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,080
probably most of them
don't become public.
382
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,320
But the fact that
anybody can log on
383
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,240
to a website on the
so called dark web,
384
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,400
download this data and
see it for themselves...
385
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:37,960
I mean that's appealing.
386
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,480
I start looking through
the emails because...
387
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,200
I was interested in seeing if
388
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,160
I could figure out
who would do it.
389
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,720
I wanted to figure
out who did it.
390
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,200
Well, then I became an addict.
391
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,600
But as Gina,
the editor of ANewDomain.com,
392
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,400
looked through the emails
393
00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,080
more questions came up.
394
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,200
Soon I was just looking in the
email trying to figure out,
395
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,320
what was Ashley Madison?
396
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,320
Was it really a dating site?
It didn't appear so.
397
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:09,440
Avid Life Media
398
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,200
the parent company
of Ashley Madison,
399
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,280
and headed by Noel Biderman
owned a lot of different websites
400
00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:16,880
through many different
shell companies.
401
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,240
Some of these like Established
Men and Cougar Life
402
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,280
were publicly part
of the portfolio,
403
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,440
and some of them weren't so obviously
linked to Avid Life Media.
404
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:32,440
It isn't one dating site, it's many sites
in every major market in the world.
405
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:38,320
It's really a sprawling business and
a sprawling collection of websites
406
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,040
that appear to be designed
to get people to come in
407
00:22:42,120 --> 00:22:43,800
to do other stuff.
408
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,520
And that stuff doesn't seem to
have a lot to do with dating.
409
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,080
The company owned websites
410
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,520
that seemed to cater for every
conceivable male fantasy.
411
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,680
Each one was slick and
targeted at a specific market.
412
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,280
So yes there's married women
that will have an affair with you,
413
00:23:02,360 --> 00:23:03,360
that's Ashley Madison.
414
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,120
There's older women who will
have an affair with younger guys
415
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,440
that's Cougar Life.
416
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,120
Broke College Girls,
find a broke college girl
417
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,040
and maybe you could
be her sugar daddy.
418
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:18,040
There's that site. There's bondage
sites, there's gay sites,
419
00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:22,120
if you can find a male fantasy,
there's a site for it.
420
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:26,880
All the websites had
one aim: to draw in male customers.
421
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,480
Ashley Madison user
Tamsin could see how
422
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,560
people got drawn
onto other websites.
423
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,400
I think it's become a
sort of a gateway drug,
424
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,080
if you will, for
relationships and websites,
425
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:46,720
and Internet dating of this
sort, that it's a good area
426
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,080
and a good site for people
to get their feet wet,
427
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,480
and then once they're
there, then the banners
428
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,320
for the more sort of
directed websites pop up.
429
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,480
One of Avid Life's
most popular websites
430
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,200
was Established Men.
431
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,840
It claims to be the premier
online dating service that
432
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,920
connects young, beautiful women
with rich, successful men!
433
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,440
The website makes it clear
women cannot advertise
434
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,000
their services as an escort
435
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,960
however many female users
are looking for
436
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,360
''a mutually beneficial arrangement'',
an MBA
437
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:23,200
a common online term for a
relationship often involving money.
438
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,520
A lot of times women are
looking for arrangements
439
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,080
because they're having
difficulty making ends meet.
440
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,480
And a lot of times men
are not in a position
441
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:38,240
to have a formal relationship
with all the bells and whistles
442
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,320
and responsibilities
that go along with it.
443
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,320
Marketing Consultant
Tamsin has lived
444
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,600
an arrangement lifestyle on and off
since she was 19.
445
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,120
This is more of a situation
where the man provides the woman
446
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:55,000
with an allowance, spoiling,
takes care of her travel expenses.
447
00:24:55,080 --> 00:25:00,440
Enables her basically to be able to be
on his schedule on an as needed basis.
448
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:02,600
Like the term sugar-daddy,
449
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,200
a mutually beneficial
arrangement, is a relationship
450
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,920
where men and women
negotiate the terms.
451
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,600
A lot of those are escorts.
Some of them just boldly say "escorts".
452
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,400
But...
453
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:19,640
Escort services are illegal in the US
outside of a couple of areas
454
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:21,920
so you can't really come out and say:
455
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,680
"Hey, I'm a hooker!"
You know, it's illegal.
456
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,200
Avid Life Media also
owns ArrangementFinders.com,
457
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,440
a more blatantly erotic website.
458
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:36,480
Even though the website states
459
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,800
that it doesn't allow escorts
to use their service,
460
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:40,440
they actively encouraged girls
461
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,440
who would like some extra
income through dating to join.
462
00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:46,440
Start dating the way
evolution programmed you to
463
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,040
and we can ship
bubbles right to you.
464
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,040
They created another
tongue-in-cheek marketing campaign,
465
00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:54,880
this time with the porn star Kayden
Kross as the face of the brand.
466
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:56,840
We're not just
creating arrangements,
467
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:57,880
we are also creating new jobs.
468
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,160
-No jobs.
469
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,160
-Blow jobs.
470
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,760
When they deliberately
advertised outside a university
471
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,000
they made the news again.
People were stunned.
472
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,400
I'm here along Santa Monica
Boulevard near Overland Avenue.
473
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,360
A spokesperson for Avid Life
Media said the placement
474
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,400
and timing of the ad is part
of the company's strategy.
475
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,480
With graduation right
around the corner
476
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,600
and students looking
for jobs and money.
477
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,840
When we asked if this
was prostitution
478
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,080
the spokesperson said, "No,
it's intimacy with a twist."
479
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:30,920
But emails in the dump
480
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,920
purporting to be
from Noel Biderman's inbox
481
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,880
reveal that the company not
only knew they hosted escorts,
482
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,280
they actively sought them.
483
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:44,320
In one case it appeared that 2,500
escorts were emailed enticing them
484
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,320
to join Arrangement Finders.
485
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,280
When it worked they planned
to contact 45,000 more.
486
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,360
Some emails discussed the possibility
of bringing foreign women to the US
487
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,040
to work as sugar babies.
488
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,440
And how the company
would market them.
489
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,360
They also investigated how the women
could come to the US
490
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,280
by lying to the authorities.
491
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:18,960
ArrangementFinders.com
492
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,840
is one of Avid Life's
most successful sites.
493
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:23,760
And it was to take Noel Biderman
494
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,880
and Avid Life Media
in a new direction: movies.
495
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,760
He experimented with
product placement
496
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,080
and an unknown starlet.
497
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,880
It just happened to
be in hardcore porn.
498
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,320
The site is also known for its shocking,
499
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,880
deliberately provocative
marketing stunts.
500
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:47,280
This ad from 2013 featuring zombie
husbands and wives was banned
501
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:50,400
buying the company even
more free publicity.
502
00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:55,840
But the owners of Ashley Madison,
Avid Life Media,
503
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,440
have a loose definition of dating.
504
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,240
It's so simple a
caveman could use it.
505
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,320
In their deliberately
lo-fi styled advert
506
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,040
for ArrangementFinders.com
507
00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:06,800
Kayden Kross, the face of the
brand, explains what they do.
508
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,640
It's a dating site for all you
sexy silver backs out there
509
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,480
who think it's time for
a little arm candy.
510
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,360
And for all you arm candy to
get a bit of purse candy.
511
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,880
Are these dating options
any good you ask?
512
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,680
No.
But blowjobs are f**king great.
513
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,040
The company has denied
this is prostitution,
514
00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:26,320
but rather intimacy
with a twist.
515
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,440
ArrangementFinders.com is interesting
for an additional reason:
516
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,440
this is the website that
took the CEO Noel Biderman
517
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,360
and his team into the
world of pornography.
518
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:51,120
I took some photos of myself in a state
of undress in a bank on Wall Street.
519
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:53,720
And then the photos went viral.
520
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,760
The bathroom was not a public
it was a private bathroom
521
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,400
and I used to take pictures in
there when I was bored anyway
522
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,240
just cause I'm a millennial
and we do things like that.
523
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:11,320
And within days, literally days, they
went completely viral over the Internet.
524
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,960
And I was dubbed
"The Wall Street porn star"
525
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,640
before I even decided
if I wanted to do porn or not.
526
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,400
But at that point I was committed right?
527
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,280
You've got that Ashley
Madison investment right?
528
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,080
Yeah, and we're working on
some other interesting stuff.
529
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,040
Veronica Vain would
become Noel Biderman's leading lady.
530
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:34,640
Screwing Wall Street,
531
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,760
the Arrangement Finders IPO was the
first fully-branded porn film,
532
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,280
full of not-so-subtle
product placement.
533
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,600
Veronica was offered the
lead part as her porn debut.
534
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,320
The story was a spoof of the
original Hollywood film Wall Street.
535
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:51,520
You wanna work with me?
536
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,520
The reason I was really
interested in this deal
537
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,760
I knew that it was
pretty groundbreaking
538
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,000
what they were doing.
539
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,880
Even if it wasn't necessarily the
best way to go about it at the time,
540
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:03,520
the fact that they were doing it
541
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,160
and that they were a
mainstream brand.
542
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,160
You were good enough
to get in my office.
543
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,920
Let's see it you're
good enough to stay.
544
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,040
That movie wasn't really
the gold mine for him,
545
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,360
he wasn't just looking for
his brand to be in porn.
546
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,120
Just the fact that
it was my name
547
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,840
and I was this girl who was being
portrayed as being young and cute
548
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:27,320
and having a good
head on her shoulders.
549
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:32,000
I was the girl he wanted
to sell to all these guys.
550
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:33,920
The plan worked very well.
551
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,920
The clips that were released for free
have had over three million views
552
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,160
but it was Veronica's
association with the brand
553
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,200
and appearances on
legitimate news channels
554
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:43,600
that really had an effect.
555
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,080
I always wanted to do something
556
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:46,400
more entrepreneurial with my career
557
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,120
I knew I wasn't fit for a
more conservative environment
558
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,880
and I saw an industry that's undergoing
a new wave of innovation
559
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:53,640
and I really wanted
to be a part of it.
560
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:58,560
The site had 200 per cent
increase in overall web traffic
561
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:04,320
but more impressively a 400
per cent increase in signups.
562
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,960
Which I think it's basically saying that
if you were going to Arrangement Finders
563
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:12,160
as a result of seeing me in this clip
or in the media or something
564
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,680
you're almost immediately
converting into a member.
565
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,400
It was another major
marketing success for Noel Biderman.
566
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,120
Why do you think Noel
was so clever at this?
567
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaking as an entrepreneur
myself most entrepreneurs
568
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:25,840
when they come up with an idea
569
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,600
it's because they saw a market need
for something that they needed.
570
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,360
Most entrepreneurs
won't just like:
571
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,320
"Oh, people need this but
I don't really want it."
572
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,640
Most entrepreneurs when
they start something
573
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,880
they want the product that's
why they are making it.
574
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:42,880
So I can only imagine that he might have
wanted to have some sort of affair,
575
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:44,400
or make it easier
to have affairs.
576
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,640
And that's quite brilliant that he went
to the market
577
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:47,920
being like ''I don't have affair,
578
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,040
I'm happily married blah blah, I just
like start this for other guys.''
579
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,520
If your husband was
cheating on you,
580
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,600
would you be OK with him going
to a site such as yours?
581
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,120
Absolutely not, that's not
what I signed up for.
582
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,600
Noel was the master
of press interviews.
583
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,840
He often included his
wife in the discussion.
584
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,600
And I live in a traditional
situation with Noel and...
585
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,920
And he was always clear: he had
never had an extra-marital affair.
586
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,240
And I would be devastated
if he did this to me.
587
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,880
But information released
in the Ashley Madison hack
588
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,520
revealed that Noel
did have affairs,
589
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:23,920
in fact, it appeared
that over three years
590
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,280
he had had relationships
with a number of women,
591
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,160
many of whom he had met through
his own site, Established Men.
592
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,560
Noel frequently discussed
money with these women
593
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,200
and even offered one
work at Avid Life.
594
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,480
He appears to have been
a serial sugar daddy himself.
595
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,920
It seems that very little of the Ashley
Madison story was as it appeared.
596
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,240
It's hard to know if the mainstream
media would have given Noel
597
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,480
and his company quite
so much airtime
598
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,040
if they'd known all that was
happening behind the scenes.
599
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,760
I don't think Ashley Madison
is inventing prostitution.
600
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:05,120
I think what the emails suggest they're
doing is helping to automate it.
601
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,280
And making it very easy.
602
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,480
Just like Google didn't
invent looking stuff up.
603
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,280
To my knowledge, Ashley Madison,
they're not running a prostitution ring
604
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,800
or their own escort service that's
against the law or anything like that.
605
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,960
What I find more immoral
is about the way
606
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,320
they deal with reporters
and journalists,
607
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,920
misleading them into thinking that the
company is something that it isn't.
608
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,280
But that's not illegal either.
609
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:33,520
Because they're
a private company
610
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,520
and they can tell people anything
they want to about their business.
611
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,000
I think Ashley Madison were
brilliant at marketing
612
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,080
they seemed to know
what the papers wanted.
613
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,600
And they would take this
little seed of truth,
614
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,800
blow it up and that was probably what
made them so successful in the media.
615
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:51,840
You need to get a little bit more
with times, and to be honest...
616
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:52,920
Louise Van der Veld
617
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,880
is a professional
sex and relationship counselor.
618
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:57,400
She was employed
by Ashley Madison
619
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,520
as a media spokesperson in 2013,
620
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,360
although she soon fell out
with the company over money.
621
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,520
She did get an insight into
how the company worked.
622
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,360
...because the relationship model is
fundamentally flawed from the off.
623
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,400
When I first agreed to
be their spokesperson,
624
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,120
it was very much me coming from
an authentic point of view,
625
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:20,320
about my beliefs about my experience of
working with couples who had affairs.
626
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,440
A lot of that kind of got ditched
627
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:27,880
and they totally glamorized it
with a shocking headline approach.
628
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,080
And the hacked emails
revealed not just exaggeration,
629
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,320
but deliberate deception
of the media.
630
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,840
Even blue chip publications
fell for their stories.
631
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,040
Forbes is one of the world's
largest financial publications,
632
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,600
it's one of the most respected
financial publications in the world.
633
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,400
Noel and Avid Life Media
634
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,520
were cultivating
a relationship with a journalist
635
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,080
who was trying to get a piece
commissioned by the magazine.
636
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:08,280
Forbes editors had agreed
to do an article about them
637
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,880
and their fantastic growth but
they wanted to see some numbers.
638
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,960
And from the trail of emails
you see employees saying,
639
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:22,480
woah I can do up this chart and I
can make up this set of data points
640
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,480
a lot of it seems to
be largely invented.
641
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,040
The company appears
to have dramatically exaggerated
642
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,280
the financial figures for
the Ashley Madison website.
643
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,960
All those websites, all those
affiliate marketing deals.
644
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,760
All the many different
little revenue streams
645
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,600
that Ashley Madison and Avid
646
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,760
and its related companies
have all over the world.
647
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:49,840
But how could Forbes have known about
all of that? And back then nobody did.
648
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,600
Noel's dream was for Ashely Madison
649
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,320
to be listed on the stock market
650
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,560
and sell its shares to the public through
what's called an IPO.
651
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,920
We're a huge company. Maybe
you can help us with the IPO,
652
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,840
I think it's about time we go and raise
a billion bucks and show the world.
653
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,040
That's interesting!
654
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,760
It could happen. If you looked at our
business with a blind on it right?
655
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:11,000
You just looked at
the numbers and
656
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:12,600
the growth and the membership
and you go oh my God
657
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:13,760
this thing is worth billions...
658
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,840
Noel wanted everyone
to look at the business
659
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,440
through a filter. To cover the entire
empire of sex sites, porn affiliates
660
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,360
and escort listings with the
blanket of Ashley Madison.
661
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:28,200
Because Noel was so good at
making it look mainstream and OK,
662
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,000
and commonplace and
OK to talk about,
663
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,440
I think people were more likely
to be able to talk openly
664
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,600
about AshleyMadison.com
than they are about PornHub.com.
665
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,360
So if Forbes comes out and says: ''Wow! Ashley Madison
is one of the largest,
666
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,040
most successful dating sites in history,
667
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:51,120
it's nearly a billion-dollar company
then 8 other major publications
668
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,560
the world over will say ''Wow! Forbes,
Bloomberg, it must be true.''
669
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,120
I mean with nobody
really questioning,
670
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:01,520
could this really be a billion-dollar
company
671
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,000
45 per cent growth in one year really?
672
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:09,480
You really can't blame Ashley Madison
for taking advantage of a lazy press.
673
00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:13,080
In September 2015,
two months after the hack,
674
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,280
another Forbes
article was written:
675
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,840
"We really don't know how big Ashley
Madison was, although I'm pretty sure
676
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,760
that it was nowhere near
as big as it seemed."
677
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,960
But while the hack appears
to have revealed so much
678
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,120
about the users and
owners of the website,
679
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,120
we know very little about
the hackers themselves.
680
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,280
A year later no one has
been arrested for the crime
681
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,560
and the case is still ongoing.
682
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,800
Avid Life Media is offering
a 500,000 dollar reward
683
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:45,280
to anyone providing information
that leads to the identification,
684
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,520
arrest and prosecution
of the person or persons
685
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,480
responsible for the leak of
the Ashley Madison database.
686
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,440
And no one has collected
that half a million-dollar reward.
687
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:56,520
Standby.
688
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:58,840
Good looking, healthy,
689
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,160
certainly old enough to get married,
what a lovely picture
690
00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:06,280
this bride and groom make each
is a dream in the others mind.
691
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:08,400
Many marriages were rocked
692
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,880
when the user details
of AshleyMadison.com
693
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,080
were leaked last year.
Divorce lawyers claimed
694
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,000
it was Christmas in September
for the industry.
695
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,120
Why does it have to
happen this way for them?
696
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:22,120
Whose fault was it?
697
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,000
The dating industry was also rocked.
698
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,600
Shortly after the hacked emails
of Noel Biderman were published,
699
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,720
Avid Life Media announced that he
had agreed to step down as CEO.
700
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,040
They said this was in the best
interests of the company.
701
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,480
Team Impact, this is
your wake up call.
702
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:46,480
Your actions are illegal
and will not be tolerated.
703
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,800
But the police still
have no idea who did it.
704
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,520
The hackers called
themselves The Impact Team,
705
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:54,080
an anonymous-style group
706
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,280
who called the users of Ashley
Madison cheating dirt bags
707
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,760
and accused Avid Life of profiting
from the pain of others.
708
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,000
This kind of hack is
known as hacktivism.
709
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:16,240
Hacker house near Manchester, is filled
with people who know that world.
710
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:21,400
If you understand the rules of somebody
else's system better than they do,
711
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,640
then you effectively get to
rewrite the rules of the game.
712
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:29,560
Trying to take down a website that
promotes unfaithfulness between couples.
713
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,280
It could be considered
vigilantism.
714
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:33,880
Is it ok to cheat on your wife?
715
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,520
Because you can do it behind
closed doors on this website,
716
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:39,840
and then what happens
when that is exposed?
717
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:41,440
Are we all now supposed
to feel sorry for you?
718
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:43,880
I personally would never
do anything illegal,
719
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:48,080
but when the Ashley Madison
thing happened it was like
720
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:49,280
yeah good on them!
721
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,040
A lot of big hacktivists, I
mean this is what they go for,
722
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,400
they try to expose big
corporate companies.
723
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,720
The means of going in and
shutting down some other site,
724
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:00,160
it's still breaking the law.
725
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,640
It's getting serious, we're seeing more
the effect it will have on
726
00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:06,200
on people's lives.
727
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:10,560
Hacker House was set up to try
728
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,640
and bring hackers into the mainstream
and not to break the law.
729
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,200
But The Impact Team's action
was more than just illegal.
730
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:23,000
Whether they thought the reason
behind it was purely moral,
731
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:24,360
only they can answer.
732
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,720
But it's not like this was
a victimless crime at all,
733
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,680
I mean people killed themselves.
734
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,560
We still have no idea
who hacked Avid Life Media,
735
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,800
and for what true motive.
736
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,400
They didn't appear to
make money from the hack,
737
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,240
so there must have been
a different reason.
738
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,160
Some people think
it was a competitor
739
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:47,200
I'm of the belief that it was
probably a competing website.
740
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:52,200
That may have masterminded
or saw the opportunity.
741
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,960
May have planted an employee
over a period of time.
742
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,680
Or they were the ones that
handled the hack externally.
743
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:02,720
One theory was that
it was an inside job.
744
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:08,240
There is chance that the Impact
team was just an insider.
745
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,880
Judging by the quality and
richness of the data.
746
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,240
Internal email,
product source code,
747
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:18,400
they likely had to be on
the company network itself
748
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:20,400
rather than just the website.
749
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:28,240
I believe that someone
had a personal problem with the CEO
750
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,400
or the executives at the company
751
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,200
and felt cheated in some way
752
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,120
where they were getting revenge.
753
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,560
Judging by the way that I
was treated by the company
754
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:43,040
and the way that they just seemed
used to dealing with employees
755
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,200
that were not happy
756
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:49,080
I think it possibly was an inside job.
757
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,400
Lots of people could have had a motive
758
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:57,680
to either harm either Avid in general
or Noel specifically.
759
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,360
People inside, people outside.
760
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,200
This was a company that
sued a lot of people,
761
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,440
fired a lot of people.
762
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,880
Finding a person with
a motive is too easy.
763
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:09,880
There's too many
people with motives.
764
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:17,600
But whoever did it,
765
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,160
the real world impact
of Ashley Madison continues.
766
00:42:21,240 --> 00:42:24,240
Anybody who's been
through what I've been through
767
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,040
through would love to
see that site down.
768
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:29,080
Long before the hack,
769
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,640
Ashley Madison had been
helping to destroy marriages.
770
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,080
Many of the real women on the
site were from rural areas.
771
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,520
When the hack happened you can
actually go and see per area,
772
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:47,200
Utah, Idaho... where they had some of
the highest Ashley Madison accounts.
773
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,520
And these are conservative,
rural areas.
774
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:55,880
It's something that actually
is not very surprising to me.
775
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,360
In 2012, several years
before the hack,
776
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,600
Jim received some
messages on his phone.
777
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:08,320
By accident one of his wife's
accounts was networked to his cell.
778
00:43:08,720 --> 00:43:12,560
I started getting emails
and text messages
779
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,000
between my wife and another guy
telling him "I'm gonna start a
fight with my husband
780
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:21,880
and figure out some way
to go meet up with you."
781
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:27,360
I threw up. I actually threw up.
782
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:29,280
In the end, Jim was able
783
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,960
to recover many
of the messages his wife had sent.
784
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:35,640
Stuff you can never un-know,
you can never un-see
785
00:43:35,720 --> 00:43:40,440
There was a video. Someone sent me
a video, it was her having sex.
786
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:43,040
Jim discovered that his wife
787
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:47,280
had had affairs with six different men
on the Ashley Madison website. It's like a drug, it's
like you're addicted.
788
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,480
You want more, you want that
adrenaline, you want that feeling.
789
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,040
That's the only way
I can think of it.
790
00:43:58,240 --> 00:43:59,320
I have these...
791
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:01,840
5 little kids.
792
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:04,920
I did not want them to be raised...
793
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:08,920
in a broken home.
794
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:15,880
I felt like it was my fault,
I felt responsible.
795
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,000
I just tried talking to her
and explaining, I love you,
796
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:24,400
we have 5 kids, let's not
destroy this family.
797
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,800
But in the end it was
impossible to reconcile:
798
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,200
the couple divorced.
799
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:35,200
It took a long time before I
stopped getting nauseous,
800
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:40,280
like physically wanted to throw
up any time I saw Ashley Madison.
801
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:43,400
Until the hack. That was a good day.
802
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,960
We don't know who
did the hack, but we do know that
803
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:57,080
The Impact Team has threatened
to do more attacks.
804
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,800
I asked the Impact team whether they
were going to hit any other companies
805
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,840
and they said, essentially, sure.
806
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,960
Maybe even politicians.
807
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,960
All systems have weaknesses.
808
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:16,360
Even the biggest social networking sites.
809
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:20,040
There is no such thing as a secure system.
810
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:27,000
As more of our lives become
intertwined with the digital world,
811
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,120
cars having connection to
the internet for example,
812
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,400
hacking is only going to increase.
813
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:34,400
Is that scary?
814
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:38,040
Yeah!
815
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,600
Greeting citizens of the free world.