1
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(# Sugar Man by Rodriguez)
2
00:00:30,155 --> 00:00:34,706
# Sugar Man, won't you hurry?
3
00:00:35,869 --> 00:00:39,965
# Cos I'm tired of these scenes
4
00:00:40,624 --> 00:00:45,050
# For a blue coin,
won't you bring back
5
00:00:46,213 --> 00:00:50,184
# All those colours to my dreams?
6
00:00:51,718 --> 00:00:56,645
# Silver magic ships, you carry
7
00:00:57,099 --> 00:01:01,946
# Jumpers, coke, sweet Mary Jane
8
00:01:04,773 --> 00:01:06,650
# Sugar Man
9
00:01:06,858 --> 00:01:09,452
(Stephen Segerman)
I got my nickname from this song.
10
00:01:09,528 --> 00:01:13,908
When I was in the Army they used to
mispronounce Segerman as Sugar Man.
11
00:01:13,991 --> 00:01:17,211
And then they just started calling me
Sugar and that became my nickname.
12
00:01:18,245 --> 00:01:23,797
It's 40 years since this LP called
Cold Fact by Rodriguez was released.
13
00:01:24,418 --> 00:01:27,467
And in South Africa
it was a very popular album.
14
00:01:27,546 --> 00:01:30,345
It was one of the biggest albums
of the day.
15
00:01:30,424 --> 00:01:33,519
But the thing was,
we didn't know who this guy was.
16
00:01:33,594 --> 00:01:36,689
All our other rock stars,
we had all the information we needed.
17
00:01:36,763 --> 00:01:39,186
But this guy? There was nothing.
18
00:01:39,266 --> 00:01:42,611
And then we found out
that he had committed suicide.
19
00:01:42,686 --> 00:01:47,533
He set himself alight on stage and
burnt to death in front of the audience.
20
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It was the most incredible thing.
It wasn't just a suicide.
21
00:01:51,445 --> 00:01:55,245
It was probably the most
grotesque suicide in rock history.
22
00:03:36,717 --> 00:03:38,344
(thunder crashing)
23
00:04:07,622 --> 00:04:12,253
(Dennis Coffey) The first time that
I remember actually recognizing him is
24
00:04:12,335 --> 00:04:14,838
Mike Theodore called me
on the phone one day and said,
25
00:04:14,921 --> 00:04:17,800
"I have this artist
I want you to come see with me.
26
00:04:17,883 --> 00:04:19,681
"This guy's name is Rodriguez,
27
00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,728
"he's working down by the Detroit River.
28
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"There's a bar down there,
29
00:04:23,722 --> 00:04:26,271
"down by the wharf riverside district.
30
00:04:26,349 --> 00:04:27,726
"Let's go see him tonight.
31
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"I think you'll really like him."
32
00:04:29,144 --> 00:04:33,445
So that night, I remember,
we pull up...
33
00:04:33,565 --> 00:04:36,694
away in this kinda isolated
part of Detroit
34
00:04:36,777 --> 00:04:38,825
right on the side of the Detroit River,
35
00:04:38,904 --> 00:04:42,750
and you could see the mist in the air
coming off the river. We could feel it.
36
00:04:42,824 --> 00:04:46,545
And we went inside there,
and as we walked in the door,
37
00:04:46,620 --> 00:04:49,339
we could hear behind us
the sound of the freighters
38
00:04:49,414 --> 00:04:51,132
as they're going down the river,
39
00:04:51,208 --> 00:04:54,553
and so it's like you're walking out
of a Sherlock Holmes novel.
40
00:04:54,628 --> 00:04:58,007
You walk out of the mist
and you go into this place,
41
00:04:58,089 --> 00:05:00,558
and inside the place,
it's all full of smoke,
42
00:05:00,634 --> 00:05:02,261
so there's a mist inside there.
43
00:05:02,677 --> 00:05:05,897
(Mike Theodore) Boom, hey, you know,
it's a wall of smoke.
44
00:05:06,848 --> 00:05:10,569
Beer all over the place. Peanut shells.
It was just a mess.
45
00:05:10,644 --> 00:05:14,649
And then you hear this strumming sound.
46
00:05:15,232 --> 00:05:16,700
Strumming and batting the guitar.
47
00:05:16,775 --> 00:05:18,698
(mimics guitar batting)
48
00:05:19,736 --> 00:05:24,242
And then you hear this voice.
Strange voice.
49
00:05:24,324 --> 00:05:26,702
(Coffey) Finally, we walked
through the smoke, and I looked,
50
00:05:26,785 --> 00:05:29,254
and there in the far corner I saw...
51
00:05:29,329 --> 00:05:32,674
I could see the shadow of a man
and I couldn't see his face.
52
00:05:32,749 --> 00:05:35,719
I said, "What's the deal?"
So we got a little closer...
53
00:05:37,379 --> 00:05:41,680
(Theodore) And you see this guy
with his back to you.
54
00:05:42,342 --> 00:05:46,722
So all you see is his back
and he's in a corner, singing.
55
00:05:47,347 --> 00:05:50,942
It was an ethereal scene, if you will.
56
00:05:51,017 --> 00:05:56,444
Foggy night, foghorns, smoke so thick
you couldn't see through it.
57
00:05:57,190 --> 00:05:59,067
And here's this voice.
58
00:05:59,609 --> 00:06:01,611
(Coffey) Maybe it forced you
to listen to the lyrics
59
00:06:01,695 --> 00:06:03,697
'cause you couldn't see the guy's face.
60
00:06:03,780 --> 00:06:07,080
That's when we talked to him and figured
we needed to do an album on him.
61
00:06:07,158 --> 00:06:11,459
The only writer that I had heard of,
of that time period,
62
00:06:11,538 --> 00:06:15,042
was maybe Bob Dylan,
that was writing that well.
63
00:06:17,502 --> 00:06:20,051
(# Crucify Your Mind by Rodriguez)
64
00:06:38,523 --> 00:06:41,322
# Was it a huntsman or a player
65
00:06:41,401 --> 00:06:44,029
# That made you pay the cost
66
00:06:44,112 --> 00:06:46,991
# That now assumes relaxed positions
67
00:06:47,073 --> 00:06:49,792
# And prostitutes your loss?
68
00:06:49,868 --> 00:06:52,667
# Were you tortured by your own thirst
69
00:06:52,746 --> 00:06:55,420
# In those pleasures that you seek
70
00:06:55,498 --> 00:06:58,172
# That made you Tom the Curious
71
00:06:58,251 --> 00:07:01,130
# That makes you James the Weak?
72
00:07:11,139 --> 00:07:15,440
# And you claim you got something going
73
00:07:18,146 --> 00:07:20,945
# Something you call unique
74
00:07:24,110 --> 00:07:27,284
# But I've seen your self-pity showing
75
00:07:29,741 --> 00:07:32,836
# As the tears roll down your cheeks
76
00:07:35,038 --> 00:07:38,383
(Dan DiMaggio) He was this
wandering spirit around the city.
77
00:07:38,458 --> 00:07:42,088
And, uh, sometimes
I might catch him in the corner.
78
00:07:42,170 --> 00:07:45,640
You know, Detroit's got its share of,
uh, burned-out, desolate areas
79
00:07:45,757 --> 00:07:48,931
and I would occasionally see him, um,
80
00:07:50,178 --> 00:07:51,976
far away from The Brewery,
and I wondered,
81
00:07:52,055 --> 00:07:55,309
and it just added
to this mythology of him.
82
00:07:55,392 --> 00:07:59,113
Like, what is he doing?
What is he doing? What does he do?
83
00:07:59,187 --> 00:08:03,784
I heard he did a little roofing,
some construction work.
84
00:08:03,858 --> 00:08:06,953
Um, I think that's how he got his money
at the time.
85
00:08:07,028 --> 00:08:09,656
He just was, you know,
and I say this with love,
86
00:08:09,781 --> 00:08:12,125
I say this with respect, but,
87
00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,202
I thought he was just a...
88
00:08:14,869 --> 00:08:19,090
just not much more than a kind of
a homeless person, you know?
89
00:08:19,165 --> 00:08:22,214
He just was a drifter.
He was just... Um...
90
00:08:23,294 --> 00:08:26,218
I didn't know if he had a home,
you know?
91
00:08:26,214 --> 00:08:30,264
He'd look like maybe he'd go
from shelter to shelter or something.
92
00:08:35,932 --> 00:08:38,105
(Coffey) Detroit in the '70s
was a hard place.
93
00:08:38,184 --> 00:08:39,777
Well, it's still a hard place.
94
00:08:39,853 --> 00:08:44,984
Lot of decay, lots of ruined houses.
Real poverty exists in this city.
95
00:08:45,066 --> 00:08:48,445
And those streets
were Rodriguez's natural habitat.
96
00:08:48,528 --> 00:08:51,657
Any time we met him
to talk about what we were doing,
97
00:08:51,781 --> 00:08:55,661
he would always meet us on a corner
somewhere in his neighbourhood.
98
00:08:55,785 --> 00:08:58,254
Most of the time
he wasn't coming to my house.
99
00:08:58,329 --> 00:09:01,378
He'd say, "Meet me on the corner
of this street and that street,"
100
00:09:01,458 --> 00:09:02,960
and we would be there.
101
00:09:03,043 --> 00:09:06,172
Uh, Mike and I would get out of our cars
and park our cars,
102
00:09:06,254 --> 00:09:07,631
so we'd be standing on the corner,
103
00:09:07,714 --> 00:09:09,387
and then we'd look round
and he'd be there all of a sudden.
104
00:09:09,466 --> 00:09:10,934
He'd just show up.
105
00:09:11,009 --> 00:09:13,853
We thought he was like
the inner city poet.
106
00:09:13,928 --> 00:09:17,523
You know? Putting his poems to music
of what he saw.
107
00:09:18,141 --> 00:09:20,815
And it was definitely a very gritty look
108
00:09:20,894 --> 00:09:23,067
at what he saw
on the streets of Detroit.
109
00:09:23,146 --> 00:09:26,650
What he saw in his neighbourhood.
Who was walking around the streets.
110
00:09:26,816 --> 00:09:31,822
And the way he presented it in a song,
I thought was very, very interesting.
111
00:09:32,572 --> 00:09:36,167
(Theodore) We were working
at Tera-Shirma recording studio.
112
00:09:36,159 --> 00:09:40,585
When he opened up and sang,
you went, "Whoa, this guy's got it."
113
00:09:40,663 --> 00:09:46,011
Rodriguez, at that time,
had all the machinery in place.
114
00:09:47,170 --> 00:09:50,925
Big names, big money behind it.
Circumstances were right.
115
00:09:51,007 --> 00:09:55,683
Why didn't it make it? That's the
big question that today still haunts me.
116
00:09:55,762 --> 00:09:59,437
Did he get enough promotion?
Did he do enough performances?
117
00:10:00,266 --> 00:10:02,018
Was he too political?
118
00:10:03,853 --> 00:10:05,696
Was there this or was there that?
119
00:10:05,688 --> 00:10:07,941
Should it have been green
instead of orange?
120
00:10:08,024 --> 00:10:11,119
Should it have been a violin
instead of an oboe?
121
00:10:11,194 --> 00:10:12,992
On and on you can go.
122
00:10:13,780 --> 00:10:17,626
But the end of the day is, if you
listen to the stuff now, you'd say,
123
00:10:17,700 --> 00:10:20,670
"I don't understand it, he's right-on."
124
00:10:23,331 --> 00:10:24,958
(Jerome Ferretti)
I only heard him play once,
125
00:10:25,041 --> 00:10:29,512
and one of the songs that
he had on his album, it was called...
126
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The Sugar Man? Was it Sugar Man?
Is that the name of the song?
127
00:10:34,509 --> 00:10:37,388
Um, I knew that guy, the Sugar Man.
128
00:10:37,387 --> 00:10:40,732
And his name was Volkswagen Cha...
Volkswagen Frank!
129
00:10:40,807 --> 00:10:42,229
And he lived right around the corner
130
00:10:42,350 --> 00:10:44,478
and you used to go over
to Volkswagen Frank's.
131
00:10:44,561 --> 00:10:47,735
You'd go in and get a little "sugar,"
if you know what I mean.
132
00:10:47,730 --> 00:10:49,232
(# Sugar Man by Rodriguez)
133
00:10:49,232 --> 00:10:52,657
# Sugar Man, won't you hurry?
134
00:10:53,570 --> 00:10:57,575
# Cos I'm tired of these scenes
135
00:10:58,241 --> 00:11:02,747
# For a blue coin,
won't you bring back
136
00:11:03,913 --> 00:11:07,918
# All those colours to my dreams?
137
00:11:09,377 --> 00:11:14,258
# Silver magic ships, you carry
138
00:11:14,757 --> 00:11:19,604
# Jumpers, coke, sweet Mary Jane
139
00:11:22,432 --> 00:11:24,400
# Sugar Man
140
00:11:25,018 --> 00:11:27,271
# Meta false friend
141
00:11:28,104 --> 00:11:31,950
# On a lonely, dusty road
142
00:11:32,525 --> 00:11:34,448
# Lost my heart
143
00:11:35,737 --> 00:11:38,786
I got some photos here
that I'd like to show you
144
00:11:38,948 --> 00:11:44,626
that I've kept since my days in England
with Rodriguez.
145
00:11:44,746 --> 00:11:46,419
Let me see.
146
00:11:46,414 --> 00:11:49,793
Possibly it's in this book,
I don't know where.
147
00:11:51,044 --> 00:11:54,218
These are all my photos
from when I was acting.
148
00:11:54,297 --> 00:11:58,473
That's me, and that's Jimmy Dean.
That was in 1955.
149
00:11:58,468 --> 00:12:02,814
Hang on, I think I've found them.
Think they're in here.
150
00:12:04,557 --> 00:12:06,309
Yeah, here they are.
151
00:12:07,435 --> 00:12:10,279
Wow. Good Lord, here they are.
152
00:12:10,813 --> 00:12:15,319
You know, I haven't seen these pictures
in almost 35 years.
153
00:12:18,279 --> 00:12:20,498
He's my most memorable artist.
154
00:12:21,324 --> 00:12:24,168
You know, I've produced
a lot of great ones, but...
155
00:12:26,663 --> 00:12:28,665
he's my most memorable.
156
00:12:29,290 --> 00:12:31,167
It's not just a talent.
157
00:12:32,502 --> 00:12:33,924
He's like...
158
00:12:34,420 --> 00:12:37,469
He's like a wise man, a prophet.
159
00:12:37,465 --> 00:12:41,186
He's way beyond
just being a musical artist.
160
00:12:41,844 --> 00:12:44,347
And he probably could have done
fantastically well
161
00:12:44,472 --> 00:12:45,849
if he had have continued.
162
00:12:45,932 --> 00:12:49,937
When I met him, they said,
"Rodriguez, this is Steve Rowland.
163
00:12:50,019 --> 00:12:52,863
"He really likes your album."
And Rodriguez said to me,
164
00:12:52,939 --> 00:12:56,193
"Well, did you like Cold Facts?"
165
00:12:56,192 --> 00:12:58,866
I said, "Man, I thought
it was absolutely brilliant.
166
00:12:58,861 --> 00:13:00,363
"Absolutely brilliant.
167
00:13:00,446 --> 00:13:04,201
"I can't believe that this album
didn't do anything.
168
00:13:04,325 --> 00:13:06,874
"It's just a fantastic album."
169
00:13:07,036 --> 00:13:08,538
So he played me...
170
00:13:08,538 --> 00:13:12,714
Well, his next album was on...
In those days you had cassettes.
171
00:13:12,834 --> 00:13:17,305
He had demos of this next album that
he was gonna call Coming From Reality.
172
00:13:17,380 --> 00:13:22,557
And I said, "Wow, man,
this has got to be a smash.
173
00:13:22,677 --> 00:13:24,224
"These are great songs.
174
00:13:24,345 --> 00:13:29,897
"Little bit... Little bit different from
the others," I said, "but great songs."
175
00:13:30,393 --> 00:13:33,237
I said, "And a couple of them
were so sad." You know.
176
00:13:33,313 --> 00:13:36,567
There's one in there
that's absolutely a killer.
177
00:13:36,691 --> 00:13:38,739
It's one of the saddest songs that...
178
00:13:38,735 --> 00:13:43,832
I'm laughing, but it's one of
the saddest songs that I've ever heard.
179
00:13:43,906 --> 00:13:47,251
And it's a very simple song.
Hang on, I wanna play this. Hang on.
180
00:13:47,243 --> 00:13:49,541
Okay, listen to these words.
181
00:13:49,537 --> 00:13:51,414
(# Cause by Rodriguez)
182
00:14:02,592 --> 00:14:05,015
# 'Cause I lost my job
183
00:14:07,722 --> 00:14:10,441
# Two weeks before Christmas
184
00:14:11,100 --> 00:14:12,727
Oh, man.
185
00:14:15,897 --> 00:14:19,026
# And I talked to Jesus at The Sewer
186
00:14:20,943 --> 00:14:24,789
# And the Pope said it was
none of his goddamn business
187
00:14:29,452 --> 00:14:32,376
# While the rain drank champagne
188
00:14:34,457 --> 00:14:38,303
# My Estonian Archangel
came and got me wasted
189
00:14:42,882 --> 00:14:46,227
# 'Cause the sweetest kiss I ever got
190
00:14:47,804 --> 00:14:51,434
# ls the one I've never tasted
191
00:14:54,602 --> 00:14:57,606
(Rowland)
And it really makes me sad, because...
192
00:14:57,605 --> 00:15:00,404
that was the last song that we recorded.
193
00:15:00,983 --> 00:15:04,533
And that was the last song
that Rodriguez ever recorded.
194
00:15:06,614 --> 00:15:10,209
And what makes it even sadder
195
00:15:10,326 --> 00:15:13,671
was the album was released
in November of 1971,
196
00:15:14,956 --> 00:15:18,961
and we expected big things.
And it did absolutely nothing.
197
00:15:21,337 --> 00:15:24,341
And then, two weeks before Christmas,
198
00:15:25,842 --> 00:15:28,311
Sussex dropped him off the label.
199
00:15:28,845 --> 00:15:33,521
And the very first line in the song,
as if premonition,
200
00:15:33,516 --> 00:15:37,396
was, "I lost my job
two weeks before Christmas."
201
00:15:40,022 --> 00:15:42,491
Oh, man. I just think about that.
202
00:15:43,651 --> 00:15:47,656
This guy deserves recognition.
203
00:15:48,030 --> 00:15:52,035
Nobody in America had even heard of him.
204
00:15:53,536 --> 00:15:54,879
Nobody...
205
00:15:57,248 --> 00:16:00,343
Nobody even was interested
in listening to him.
206
00:16:03,254 --> 00:16:07,384
How can that be? How can that be?
Guy that writes like this.
207
00:16:08,718 --> 00:16:10,220
I mean...
208
00:16:11,721 --> 00:16:15,351
# 'Cause they told me
everybody's gotta pay their dues
209
00:16:16,893 --> 00:16:20,067
# And I explained that
I had overpaid them
210
00:16:25,443 --> 00:16:27,946
# 'Cause the smell of her perfume
211
00:16:30,948 --> 00:16:34,748
# Echoes in my head still
212
00:17:04,106 --> 00:17:06,108
(# I Wonder by Rodriguez)
213
00:17:18,120 --> 00:17:22,466
# I wonder
how many times you've been had
214
00:17:22,583 --> 00:17:27,180
# And I wonder
how many plans have gone bad
215
00:17:27,171 --> 00:17:31,517
# I wonder how many times you had sex
216
00:17:31,509 --> 00:17:36,140
# And I wonder,
do you know who'll be next?
217
00:17:37,306 --> 00:17:39,809
(Segerman) It's still a bit of a mystery
how the first copy of Cold Fact
218
00:17:39,934 --> 00:17:41,356
actually came to South Africa.
219
00:17:41,477 --> 00:17:43,024
But one of the stories I've heard
220
00:17:43,020 --> 00:17:45,489
is that there was an American girl
and she came to South Africa
221
00:17:45,481 --> 00:17:49,156
to visit her boyfriend and brought
a copy of the record with her.
222
00:17:49,318 --> 00:17:51,867
And her and him and all their friends
really liked it
223
00:17:51,988 --> 00:17:54,537
and went out to try and buy it
but you couldn't buy it.
224
00:17:54,657 --> 00:17:57,661
So they started taping copies
and passing copies along.
225
00:17:57,660 --> 00:18:00,504
However it got here,
however it germinated here,
226
00:18:00,621 --> 00:18:04,000
once it got here,
it spread very quickly.
227
00:18:04,625 --> 00:18:06,878
# How much goin' have you got
228
00:18:06,877 --> 00:18:11,383
# And I wonder
about your friends that are not
229
00:18:11,507 --> 00:18:15,478
# I wonder
230
00:18:19,390 --> 00:18:21,688
# Wonder I do
231
00:18:21,684 --> 00:18:25,063
(Willem Möller)
I remember I was in high school
232
00:18:26,022 --> 00:18:30,402
and we heard this song, "I wonder
how many times you've had sex?"
233
00:18:30,401 --> 00:18:33,075
And at that time South Africa
was very conservative.
234
00:18:33,070 --> 00:18:35,414
It was the height of apartheid,
235
00:18:36,157 --> 00:18:38,410
and there wasn't television here.
236
00:18:38,409 --> 00:18:41,913
That's how conservative it was,
'cause television was communist.
237
00:18:41,912 --> 00:18:44,665
It was really... You wouldn't believe.
238
00:18:45,875 --> 00:18:47,718
Everything was restricted,
everything was censored.
239
00:18:47,835 --> 00:18:49,257
Everything was...
240
00:18:49,253 --> 00:18:51,426
And here's this guy singing this song.
241
00:18:51,547 --> 00:18:54,266
"Who's that?" Said, "That's Rodriguez."
242
00:18:54,258 --> 00:18:58,559
And he became something
of a rebel, sort of icon.
243
00:18:59,055 --> 00:19:01,774
But the strange thing was
that we all bought his records.
244
00:19:01,849 --> 00:19:04,728
Everybody I knew had his records.
I Wonder,
245
00:19:05,394 --> 00:19:07,067
that was the big song
that everybody was singing
246
00:19:07,063 --> 00:19:08,610
and we all bought a record.
247
00:19:08,606 --> 00:19:12,281
And there he was on the cover,
sort of a hippy with shades.
248
00:19:12,401 --> 00:19:15,575
But nobody knew anything about him.
He was a mystery.
249
00:19:15,571 --> 00:19:19,451
Unlike other artists
that you could read about from America,
250
00:19:19,575 --> 00:19:24,126
get to know something about them,
there was zilch. Nobody knew anything.
251
00:19:24,121 --> 00:19:28,422
It was a mystery. We only had
his picture on the cover of the record.
252
00:19:28,542 --> 00:19:29,919
(# Jane S. Piddy by Rodriguez)
253
00:19:30,044 --> 00:19:34,641
# Now you sit there thinking
Feeling insecure
254
00:19:34,757 --> 00:19:39,979
# The mocking court jester
Claims there is no proven cure
255
00:19:40,763 --> 00:19:45,815
# Go back to your chamber
Your eyes upon the wall
256
00:19:45,893 --> 00:19:51,650
# Cos you got no one to listen
You got no one to call
257
00:19:53,651 --> 00:19:55,824
# And you think I'm curious
258
00:19:55,820 --> 00:19:57,288
(Segerman) The album
was exceptionally popular.
259
00:19:57,279 --> 00:20:01,000
To many of us South Africans,
he was the soundtrack to our lives.
260
00:20:00,991 --> 00:20:03,790
In the mid-'70s,
if you walked into a random
261
00:20:03,786 --> 00:20:05,788
white, liberal,
middle-class household
262
00:20:05,788 --> 00:20:08,337
that had a turntable
and a pile of pop records
263
00:20:08,457 --> 00:20:11,131
and if you flipped through the records
you would always see
264
00:20:11,127 --> 00:20:12,800
Abbey Road by The Beatles.
265
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:14,968
You would always see
Bridge Over Troubled Water
266
00:20:14,964 --> 00:20:16,511
by Simon and Garfunkel.
267
00:20:16,507 --> 00:20:19,135
And you would always see
Cold Fact by Rodriguez.
268
00:20:19,260 --> 00:20:22,309
To us, it was one of the most
famous records of all time.
269
00:20:23,013 --> 00:20:25,812
The message it had was:
"Be anti-establishment. "
270
00:20:25,808 --> 00:20:28,152
One song's called
Anti-Establishment Blues.
271
00:20:28,269 --> 00:20:29,987
We didn't know what the word
"anti-establishment" was
272
00:20:29,979 --> 00:20:33,153
until it cropped up on a Rodriguez song
and then we found out,
273
00:20:33,149 --> 00:20:36,153
it's OK to protest against your society,
274
00:20:36,277 --> 00:20:39,076
to be angry with your society.
275
00:20:39,822 --> 00:20:42,325
Because we lived in a society
276
00:20:42,491 --> 00:20:45,916
where every means was used
to prevent apartheid from,
277
00:20:46,912 --> 00:20:49,006
you know, coming to an end,
278
00:20:50,332 --> 00:20:53,506
this album somehow had in it...
279
00:20:53,586 --> 00:20:59,593
lyrics that almost set us free
as oppressed peoples.
280
00:21:01,260 --> 00:21:03,388
Any revolution needs an anthem
281
00:21:03,387 --> 00:21:06,231
and in South Africa
Cold Fact was the album
282
00:21:06,348 --> 00:21:08,771
that gave people permission
283
00:21:08,851 --> 00:21:13,948
to free their minds
and to start thinking differently.
284
00:21:14,023 --> 00:21:15,570
(# The Establishment Blues by Rodriguez)
285
00:21:15,566 --> 00:21:18,240
# The mayor hides the crime rate
Council woman hesitates
286
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:22,115
# Public gets irate
But forgets the vote date
287
00:21:22,198 --> 00:21:26,248
# This system's gonna fall soon
To an angry young tune
288
00:21:26,243 --> 00:21:28,746
# And that's a concrete cold fact
289
00:21:29,413 --> 00:21:32,383
(Segerman) It may seem strange
that South African record companies
290
00:21:32,541 --> 00:21:34,964
didn't do more
to try and track down Rodriguez,
291
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:36,962
but, actually,
if you look back at the time
292
00:21:36,962 --> 00:21:39,966
we were in the middle of apartheid,
the height of apartheid.
293
00:21:39,965 --> 00:21:43,139
South Africa was under sanctions
from countries from all over the world.
294
00:21:43,219 --> 00:21:45,722
South African musicians
were not allowed to play overseas.
295
00:21:45,805 --> 00:21:48,934
No foreign acts
were allowed to visit South Africa.
296
00:21:48,933 --> 00:21:50,981
It was a closed-door situation
297
00:21:51,060 --> 00:21:53,154
between South Africa
and the rest of the world.
298
00:21:53,229 --> 00:21:57,154
# Woke up this morning
with an ache in my head
299
00:21:57,233 --> 00:22:01,113
# I splashed on my clothes
as I spilled out of bed
300
00:22:01,111 --> 00:22:05,287
# I opened the window
to listen to the news
301
00:22:05,282 --> 00:22:10,004
# But all I heard
was the establishment's blues
302
00:22:09,995 --> 00:22:12,293
(Segerman) The countries around
the world were saying horrible things
303
00:22:12,289 --> 00:22:13,757
about the apartheid government
304
00:22:13,833 --> 00:22:16,928
but we didn't know
because they controlled the news.
305
00:22:17,002 --> 00:22:20,302
The majority of the population
had been marginalized
306
00:22:20,297 --> 00:22:23,801
and forced out of the commerce in areas.
307
00:22:23,926 --> 00:22:25,678
It was what had happened
in Nazi Germany.
308
00:22:25,761 --> 00:22:27,638
It was a spin-off from Nazi Germany,
309
00:22:27,763 --> 00:22:30,687
but if a newspaper published it,
they'd get prosecuted.
310
00:22:30,766 --> 00:22:34,816
So, because of that, South Africa had
achieved a pariah status in the world.
311
00:22:34,812 --> 00:22:37,656
There were cultural boycotts.
There were sporting boycotts.
312
00:22:37,648 --> 00:22:41,118
It was a very isolated society.
So we were cut off.
313
00:22:41,193 --> 00:22:42,786
We all knew apartheid was wrong,
314
00:22:42,862 --> 00:22:44,034
but living in South Africa,
315
00:22:44,113 --> 00:22:45,456
there wasn't much, as a white person,
316
00:22:45,614 --> 00:22:46,831
you could do about it,
317
00:22:46,824 --> 00:22:48,622
'cause the government was very strict.
318
00:22:48,701 --> 00:22:50,795
It was a military state,
to a large degree.
319
00:22:50,870 --> 00:22:52,372
If you spoke out against apartheid,
320
00:22:52,454 --> 00:22:54,502
you could be thrown into prison
for three years.
321
00:22:54,498 --> 00:22:57,843
So although a lot of whites
were part of the struggle,
322
00:22:57,835 --> 00:22:59,508
the majority of whites were not.
323
00:22:59,628 --> 00:23:03,974
You were watched. There were spies.
It was scary and people were scared.
324
00:23:04,049 --> 00:23:06,893
But out of the Afrikaans
community emerged
325
00:23:06,969 --> 00:23:09,973
a group of Afrikaans
musicians, songwriters,
326
00:23:10,055 --> 00:23:14,310
and for them, when they heard Rodriguez,
it was like a voice spoke to them
327
00:23:14,393 --> 00:23:18,364
and said, "Guys, there's a way out.
There's a way out.
328
00:23:18,355 --> 00:23:21,484
"You can write music.
You can write imagery.
329
00:23:21,650 --> 00:23:23,152
"You can sing, you can perform."
330
00:23:23,235 --> 00:23:26,990
And that was where, really,
the first opposition to apartheid
331
00:23:27,072 --> 00:23:29,666
came from inside
the Afrikaans community.
332
00:23:29,742 --> 00:23:33,212
It was these young Afrikaans guys
and, to a man,
333
00:23:33,203 --> 00:23:35,752
they'll tell you
they were influenced by Rodriguez.
334
00:23:35,831 --> 00:23:38,004
Koos Kombuis. Willem Möller.
335
00:23:38,083 --> 00:23:39,881
The late Johannes Kerkorrel.
336
00:23:40,002 --> 00:23:45,509
The guys who were regarded as the icons
of the Afrikaans music revolution
337
00:23:45,674 --> 00:23:48,052
will all tell you,
"Rodriguez was our guy."
338
00:23:48,177 --> 00:23:49,850
(speaking Afrikaans)
339
00:23:51,847 --> 00:23:53,724
(Möller)
We call it the Voelvry movement
340
00:23:53,849 --> 00:23:56,352
of Afrikaans artists
singing against apartheid.
341
00:23:56,435 --> 00:23:59,234
All of us listened to Rodriguez
at some point. All of us.
342
00:23:59,355 --> 00:24:01,357
It had an enormous impact.
343
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,943
It made you just think
that there's another way.
344
00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:08,240
What's presented to you
by the establishment isn't all theirs.
345
00:24:08,364 --> 00:24:10,082
(rock music playing)
346
00:24:10,074 --> 00:24:16,798
# Set if off, set if off
# Set if off, set if off
347
00:24:16,872 --> 00:24:19,421
(Möller) The biggest hit
was a song called Set It Off
348
00:24:19,541 --> 00:24:22,795
which was when PW Botha
was the president then.
349
00:24:22,878 --> 00:24:26,724
The real bad guy. When he came on TV,
he used to talk like that.
350
00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:30,974
And this song said, "switch it off,
just switch off the TV."
351
00:24:39,770 --> 00:24:41,147
(male interviewer)
So what lines do you think
352
00:24:41,230 --> 00:24:42,823
were the lines they had problem with?
353
00:24:42,898 --> 00:24:44,400
Ah, gee whiz, it's all of them.
354
00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:47,619
"Sugar Man, won't you hurry
Cos I'm tired of these scenes
355
00:24:47,736 --> 00:24:52,116
"For a blue coin, won't you bring back
all those colours to my dreams?"
356
00:24:52,116 --> 00:24:53,993
The most difficult ones is probably
357
00:24:54,076 --> 00:24:58,456
"Silver magic ships, you carry
Jumpers, coke, sweet Mary Jane."
358
00:24:58,580 --> 00:25:00,173
And what is that?
359
00:25:00,749 --> 00:25:02,126
Uh...
360
00:25:02,418 --> 00:25:03,840
I'm gonna leave that to you.
361
00:25:03,919 --> 00:25:05,341
(both chuckle)
362
00:25:05,421 --> 00:25:07,844
- But it's drugs?
-it's certainly drugs.
363
00:25:07,923 --> 00:25:11,848
During the apartheid years,
it was just impossible to play it.
364
00:25:11,927 --> 00:25:13,850
And what happened if you did play it?
365
00:25:13,929 --> 00:25:17,103
Well, you couldn't.
I'd like to show you why.
366
00:25:21,979 --> 00:25:24,858
Right, here we have the album,
the vinyl.
367
00:25:24,940 --> 00:25:28,490
At the back of the sleeve
you'll see a sticker that says "Avoid."
368
00:25:28,485 --> 00:25:32,285
But when you open the album
and take it out from its sleeve,
369
00:25:33,032 --> 00:25:36,502
you would see that they have
scratched that particular song
370
00:25:36,618 --> 00:25:40,293
with a sharp tool to make sure
that it would not go out on air.
371
00:25:40,831 --> 00:25:45,337
And that's the way that they
banned the music which, in my mind,
372
00:25:45,461 --> 00:25:50,137
was quite a brutal way of ensuring the
song would never be heard on the air.
373
00:25:50,632 --> 00:25:54,136
(Steve Harris) Most of those tracks
were on the banned list at SABC
374
00:25:54,219 --> 00:25:57,564
and they ran
the broadcast industry completely.
375
00:25:57,639 --> 00:26:00,392
There weren't any independent
radio stations or TV stations.
376
00:26:00,476 --> 00:26:06,199
Obviously, when that word got out,
it just made the record more desirable.
377
00:26:07,024 --> 00:26:09,026
You know,
it's like having something banned.
378
00:26:09,026 --> 00:26:12,576
You're 16, 17 years old
and you've got something that's banned.
379
00:26:12,654 --> 00:26:14,577
It was absolutely perfect.
380
00:26:14,865 --> 00:26:17,163
(# Can't Get Away by Rodriguez)
381
00:26:34,927 --> 00:26:37,555
# Born in the troubled city
382
00:26:38,555 --> 00:26:41,399
# In Rock and Roll, USA
383
00:26:41,892 --> 00:26:45,271
# In the shadow of the tallest building
384
00:26:46,230 --> 00:26:49,154
# I vowed I would break away
385
00:26:50,275 --> 00:26:53,199
# Listened to the Sunday actors
386
00:26:53,946 --> 00:26:56,449
# But all they would ever say
387
00:26:56,532 --> 00:27:00,127
# That you can't get away from it
388
00:27:00,202 --> 00:27:02,671
# No, you can't get away
389
00:27:03,372 --> 00:27:06,842
(Segerman) Cold Fact was just one
of the albums we had in our collections,
390
00:27:06,917 --> 00:27:11,218
and for 10, 20 years, it was just
a record we listened to and enjoyed.
391
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,430
But then a pivotal event happened
that changed everything for me.
392
00:27:15,509 --> 00:27:16,977
We were down in Camps Bay beach.
393
00:27:17,052 --> 00:27:20,181
We were sitting around on the beach
and a friend of mine,
394
00:27:20,264 --> 00:27:22,562
a woman, who was from South Africa,
395
00:27:22,641 --> 00:27:26,862
but she had got married
and emigrated to Los Angeles,
396
00:27:26,937 --> 00:27:31,317
she said to me, "Where can I
buy Cold Fact in South Africa?"
397
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,246
And I turned round and I pointed
to a store across the road
398
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,574
that sold CDs and I said,
"You can buy it at that store."
399
00:27:38,657 --> 00:27:42,252
She said, "Really? Because, you know,
you can't buy it anywhere in America.
400
00:27:42,327 --> 00:27:44,546
"I've asked everywhere in America,
no one's even heard of it."
401
00:27:44,621 --> 00:27:47,124
And that was a pivotal moment,
'cause I didn't know that.
402
00:27:47,207 --> 00:27:48,584
I thought everybody knew Rodriguez,
403
00:27:48,667 --> 00:27:51,216
especially in America
'cause he was American.
404
00:27:51,295 --> 00:27:54,424
So my next thought was,
"Ah, Rodriguez, that's interesting."
405
00:27:54,506 --> 00:27:56,929
I went back... I came back home
and I took out my Rodriguez records
406
00:27:57,009 --> 00:27:59,432
and that's when I realised
there was nothing on the record
407
00:27:59,511 --> 00:28:01,684
to tell us who he was
or where he was from.
408
00:28:02,055 --> 00:28:03,932
On Cold Fact there are four names.
409
00:28:04,016 --> 00:28:06,895
On the front cover
it just says "Rodriguez."
410
00:28:06,977 --> 00:28:09,776
But if we take the record out
and examine the sleeve,
411
00:28:09,897 --> 00:28:12,696
the artist's name is Sixto Rodriguez.
412
00:28:12,774 --> 00:28:14,276
But if you look at the tracks,
413
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:15,986
six of these tracks
414
00:28:16,069 --> 00:28:18,447
are credited to Jesus Rodriguez,
415
00:28:18,530 --> 00:28:19,907
and four of these tracks
416
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:22,618
are credited to Sixth Prince.
417
00:28:22,701 --> 00:28:24,374
So who actually wrote these songs
418
00:28:24,453 --> 00:28:25,705
and who are all these people?
419
00:28:25,787 --> 00:28:28,961
We didn't have any more information
than a record
420
00:28:29,041 --> 00:28:32,591
with him sitting on the cover
with a hat and sunglasses on.
421
00:28:32,669 --> 00:28:35,673
We didn't know how tall he was
'cause he was sitting cross-legged.
422
00:28:35,756 --> 00:28:37,224
So how do you solve a mystery?
423
00:28:37,299 --> 00:28:39,301
You use whatever
information's available.
424
00:28:39,384 --> 00:28:42,684
What did we have?
A record cover with lyrics.
425
00:28:42,763 --> 00:28:44,436
So we started looking
quite deeply at the lyrics
426
00:28:44,514 --> 00:28:45,982
and seeing what they said,
427
00:28:46,058 --> 00:28:48,686
and some of them, very few of them,
had geographical references.
428
00:28:48,769 --> 00:28:51,397
The one you Can't Get Away starts off,
429
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,107
"Born in the troubled city"
430
00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:55,989
"In Rock and Roll, USA."
431
00:28:56,068 --> 00:28:57,490
Born in which troubled city?
432
00:28:57,569 --> 00:28:59,663
Seems all the cities were troubled
in the late '60s.
433
00:28:59,738 --> 00:29:02,036
"In the shadow of the tallest building."
434
00:29:02,115 --> 00:29:04,288
The tallest building, as far as we knew,
was in New York.
435
00:29:04,368 --> 00:29:06,712
And at the bottom of the song
this verse says,
436
00:29:06,787 --> 00:29:08,414
"In a hotel room in Amsterdam."
437
00:29:09,331 --> 00:29:14,337
Then it says, "Going down a dusty
Georgian side road I wander." Georgia?
438
00:29:14,419 --> 00:29:16,342
So we've had Amsterdam,
we've had Georgia,
439
00:29:16,421 --> 00:29:17,889
we've had the world's tallest building.
440
00:29:18,548 --> 00:29:20,266
Not much to go on.
441
00:29:28,016 --> 00:29:29,484
(Bartholomew-Strydom)
Well, what I heard,
442
00:29:29,476 --> 00:29:30,898
and the story differs a lot,
443
00:29:31,019 --> 00:29:34,614
and a lot of people have different
versions of the story, but what I heard,
444
00:29:34,690 --> 00:29:37,443
he hadn't played a concert
in a very long time.
445
00:29:37,442 --> 00:29:41,367
And a promoter got him
to play a concert,
446
00:29:41,446 --> 00:29:44,120
and he was hoping
it was gonna be a great show.
447
00:29:44,199 --> 00:29:47,328
Of course, the show didn't
work out that way. It started out...
448
00:29:47,411 --> 00:29:51,461
The sound wasn't good.
The venue wasn't good.
449
00:29:51,456 --> 00:29:54,130
A lot of the factors
surrounding the show wasn't good.
450
00:29:54,209 --> 00:29:56,086
And as the show went on and on,
451
00:29:56,169 --> 00:30:00,766
it started going downhill from there.
People started ridiculing him.
452
00:30:00,841 --> 00:30:06,143
People started whistling
or making mention of the fact that,
453
00:30:06,221 --> 00:30:08,599
you know,
the show wasn't going as planned.
454
00:30:08,682 --> 00:30:12,277
And it got to a point where,
just very quietly, very gently,
455
00:30:12,352 --> 00:30:13,820
he just sang his last song.
456
00:30:13,895 --> 00:30:16,569
"But thanks for your time
Then you can thank me for mine
457
00:30:16,648 --> 00:30:18,616
"And after that's said forget it."
458
00:30:18,692 --> 00:30:23,038
And he reached down and pulled up a gun
and pulled the trigger.
459
00:30:23,613 --> 00:30:26,787
And that was the dramatic,
very dramatic ending,
460
00:30:26,867 --> 00:30:29,461
to what was actually a non-career.
461
00:31:00,484 --> 00:31:04,660
(Segerman) In 1996,
the South African record label
462
00:31:04,738 --> 00:31:08,959
released Rodriguez's second album,
Coming From Reality,
463
00:31:09,076 --> 00:31:11,875
on CD for the first time
in South Africa.
464
00:31:11,953 --> 00:31:14,502
And because they thought
I knew a lot about him,
465
00:31:14,498 --> 00:31:17,217
they asked if I wanted to co-write
the liner notes for the booklet,
466
00:31:17,292 --> 00:31:18,669
which I did.
467
00:31:18,752 --> 00:31:23,132
And I'll read some of it to you.
They start off by saying,
468
00:31:23,215 --> 00:31:26,640
"if ever there is an air of intrigue
and mystery around a pop artist,
469
00:31:26,718 --> 00:31:29,437
"it is around the artist
known as Rodriguez.
470
00:31:29,513 --> 00:31:32,642
"There's no air of intrigue and mystery
around him anywhere else in the world
471
00:31:32,724 --> 00:31:35,853
"because his two albums,
Coming From Reality and Cold Fact,
472
00:31:35,936 --> 00:31:38,735
"were monumental flops everywhere else."
473
00:31:38,814 --> 00:31:40,282
And this is the important part.
474
00:31:40,982 --> 00:31:44,953
"There were no concrete cold facts
about the artist known as Rodriguez.
475
00:31:45,028 --> 00:31:47,451
"Any musicologist detectives out there?"
476
00:31:47,948 --> 00:31:50,747
And that,
that's the line that changed everything.
477
00:31:51,868 --> 00:31:53,666
(Bartholomew-Strydom)
I started searching for Rodriguez
478
00:31:53,745 --> 00:31:55,964
when a few of us
were sitting around in the Army
479
00:31:56,039 --> 00:31:58,417
and somebody said,
"How did Rodriguez die?"
480
00:31:58,500 --> 00:31:59,877
And just coincidence,
481
00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:02,383
at the time I was looking
for subject matter to write an article.
482
00:32:02,462 --> 00:32:05,341
I remember having, like, five points
on a piece of paper.
483
00:32:05,424 --> 00:32:08,769
And number four, or something,
was "Find out how Rodriguez died."
484
00:32:08,844 --> 00:32:11,597
I thought it would make a good story.
485
00:32:11,596 --> 00:32:13,690
So that was in the back of my mind
for many years
486
00:32:13,765 --> 00:32:17,520
and then, many years later,
I came across this,
487
00:32:18,061 --> 00:32:23,409
re-release of Coming From Reality
and inside, the liner notes said,
488
00:32:23,483 --> 00:32:26,862
"There were no concrete cold facts
about the artist known as Rodriguez.
489
00:32:26,945 --> 00:32:31,576
"Any musicologist detectives out there?"
Um, was the question,
490
00:32:31,658 --> 00:32:33,786
and I think that to me,
was like an invitation.
491
00:32:33,869 --> 00:32:35,963
I thought, "Well, maybe it's me".
492
00:32:38,415 --> 00:32:42,761
The first way I tried to find him
was to just follow the money.
493
00:32:42,836 --> 00:32:44,088
Normally, you follow the money.
494
00:32:44,212 --> 00:32:45,589
That's how you get
to the bottom of anything.
495
00:32:46,256 --> 00:32:48,600
But where do dead men's money go?
496
00:32:48,675 --> 00:32:51,053
I was astounded that
no one knew anything about him.
497
00:32:51,178 --> 00:32:55,479
I guess it was reminiscent
of how bad the music industry was.
498
00:32:55,557 --> 00:32:57,400
They were renowned
for ripping people off.
499
00:32:57,476 --> 00:33:01,401
And it is one thing,
if they had said to me, "Oh, yeah,
500
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,826
"we send the money
to X place or Y," or whatever,
501
00:33:05,901 --> 00:33:08,199
but they just kept on being very vague.
502
00:33:08,278 --> 00:33:12,033
And, in fact, when l put some pressure
on somebody, I did get an address,
503
00:33:12,115 --> 00:33:13,617
and I called
504
00:33:13,700 --> 00:33:16,670
and, I can't remember
if I spoke to someone or left a message,
505
00:33:16,661 --> 00:33:19,665
but when I called the next day,
the number had been changed.
506
00:33:19,664 --> 00:33:20,836
And that to me was...
507
00:33:20,916 --> 00:33:24,341
I mean, that's a gift
for anyone who wants to be a detective,
508
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,891
is an obstacle,
because an obstacle is an inspiration.
509
00:33:28,965 --> 00:33:31,639
If you just find things easily,
they're not inspiring,
510
00:33:31,635 --> 00:33:34,935
and this was a great obstacle
that somebody had changed their number.
511
00:33:35,013 --> 00:33:39,439
I just smelt a dirty money story
somewhere there.
512
00:33:39,518 --> 00:33:41,236
(male interviewer)
So, if you compare to other artists,
513
00:33:41,311 --> 00:33:42,938
how big was it actually?
514
00:33:43,021 --> 00:33:45,069
(Robbie Mann) Every month it just sold.
515
00:33:45,148 --> 00:33:48,027
And every party you went to
and every place you went to,
516
00:33:48,109 --> 00:33:50,532
you'd hear that album at least once.
517
00:33:50,612 --> 00:33:54,992
I don't think I could even think
of how many albums he's sold here
518
00:33:55,075 --> 00:33:57,544
'cause it's a long period of time.
519
00:33:57,911 --> 00:34:00,710
(male interviewer)
What could be probable?
520
00:34:02,123 --> 00:34:03,716
(sighs)
521
00:34:03,792 --> 00:34:08,013
I'd have to guess. Maybe half a million
copies over that period of time.
522
00:34:08,922 --> 00:34:11,766
It's a lot of records,
especially for a small country.
523
00:34:11,841 --> 00:34:14,310
Gold record, ten times over.
524
00:34:14,386 --> 00:34:17,139
(male interviewer) Rodriguez never got
to know that he was big in South Africa.
525
00:34:17,264 --> 00:34:18,732
How could that be?
526
00:34:18,723 --> 00:34:22,023
Don't know.
I mean, everything would have been...
527
00:34:22,102 --> 00:34:23,695
I find that strange.
528
00:34:24,646 --> 00:34:26,023
I have no idea.
529
00:34:26,106 --> 00:34:28,154
(male interviewer) But you must
have sent royalties somewhere?
530
00:34:28,275 --> 00:34:30,903
(Mann) Of course we sent royalties.
We sent royalties to A&M Records.
531
00:34:30,986 --> 00:34:33,284
I remember the label. It was A&M Sussex.
532
00:34:33,363 --> 00:34:36,287
Whether they had a partnership,
whatever they had, I don't... You know.
533
00:34:36,908 --> 00:34:41,129
So, my suggestion is, if you
can find out whoever the person was
534
00:34:41,204 --> 00:34:42,877
who owned Sussex Records,
535
00:34:43,623 --> 00:34:46,376
then you will find out
what happened to the money.
536
00:34:46,459 --> 00:34:49,178
(male interviewer)
Because it's weird, isn't it?
537
00:34:49,296 --> 00:34:52,425
(Mann) It's very strange. Very strange.
538
00:34:52,507 --> 00:34:54,760
(male interviewer) How popular
was the album? Was he as famous as,
539
00:34:54,759 --> 00:34:56,932
you know,
the Rolling Stones and the Doors?
540
00:34:57,053 --> 00:34:58,805
Oh, it was much bigger
than Rolling Stones.
541
00:34:58,888 --> 00:35:00,356
Absolutely, at the time, yeah.
542
00:35:00,890 --> 00:35:03,769
(male interviewer) When you released
the record, did you try to contact him?
543
00:35:03,852 --> 00:35:07,652
(Harris) No, not at all. You know?
Because... because, at the time,
544
00:35:07,731 --> 00:35:11,781
the legend... the legend was...
here was an artist.
545
00:35:11,776 --> 00:35:13,744
This was like Jimi Hendrix.
546
00:35:13,737 --> 00:35:16,456
With Jimi Hendrix catalogues,
you've gotta understand,
547
00:35:16,531 --> 00:35:21,958
if you just got Jimi Hendrix and you'd
got the license for this territory,
548
00:35:22,037 --> 00:35:25,462
you're obviously not gonna go try get
hold of Jimi Hendrix, because he's dead.
549
00:35:25,540 --> 00:35:28,464
- But who did you pay royalties to?
-To Sussex Music.
550
00:35:28,543 --> 00:35:29,920
To Clarence?
551
00:35:30,003 --> 00:35:33,257
Yes. Well, to Sussex Music
which is his company, yeah.
552
00:35:33,590 --> 00:35:35,592
So, I decided to make a diagram.
553
00:35:35,592 --> 00:35:38,812
Write down the whole path
and trail that I was trying to work out.
554
00:35:38,887 --> 00:35:41,561
All the various touch points,
all the record companies,
555
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,065
all the people that had dealings with
Rodriguez and his album at some point.
556
00:35:45,143 --> 00:35:47,066
I made this whole document.
557
00:35:47,145 --> 00:35:49,773
So I found out there were three
record companies in South Africa
558
00:35:49,773 --> 00:35:52,276
that had released Rodriguez's records.
559
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,030
Finally discovering that
led to a record company in America.
560
00:35:56,112 --> 00:35:57,910
It was a company that
had been signing Rodriguez
561
00:35:57,989 --> 00:36:00,833
and creating his first album
called Sussex.
562
00:36:01,660 --> 00:36:03,708
I then did my research on Sussex.
563
00:36:03,787 --> 00:36:05,960
That led me to discovering
564
00:36:06,039 --> 00:36:10,465
who the owner of Sussex Records was:
Clarence Avant.
565
00:36:10,543 --> 00:36:12,841
Clarence Avant,
he'd been the head of Motown,
566
00:36:12,837 --> 00:36:16,467
one of the most prestigious jobs
to have in the record company industry.
567
00:36:16,549 --> 00:36:20,270
So I did my research. I tried everything
to get a hold of Clarence Avant,
568
00:36:20,387 --> 00:36:23,812
but I just got to a lot of closed doors.
I could not get a hold of him.
569
00:36:36,027 --> 00:36:39,281
(male interviewer) I don't know
if you've ever seen this picture.
570
00:36:39,406 --> 00:36:42,034
(chuckles) That's him.
571
00:36:44,244 --> 00:36:46,042
That's Rodriguez.
572
00:36:47,580 --> 00:36:49,878
I don't know when this was made.
I have absolutely no idea.
573
00:36:49,958 --> 00:36:52,882
- That's 1970, I think.
-Yeah.
574
00:36:55,255 --> 00:36:57,178
This is my man.
575
00:37:01,344 --> 00:37:03,893
Man, don't get me emotional again. Shit.
576
00:37:03,888 --> 00:37:05,310
You made me emotional once.
577
00:37:05,432 --> 00:37:08,902
I ain't getting emotional no more
sitting here talking to you, man.
578
00:37:10,353 --> 00:37:14,779
If I had to name ten artists
that I have ever been involved with,
579
00:37:14,858 --> 00:37:17,611
Rodriguez would be in the top five,
simple as that.
580
00:37:17,694 --> 00:37:19,742
There's nothing...
You never heard anything like him.
581
00:37:19,821 --> 00:37:23,200
People would say, "Well, Bob Dylan."
I said, "No, no".
582
00:37:23,283 --> 00:37:27,629
Bob Dylan was mild to this guy.
Did it make any money?
583
00:37:27,704 --> 00:37:30,002
We judge singing here in America...
584
00:37:29,998 --> 00:37:33,502
If you say,
"Is it... Was it the top hundred?
585
00:37:33,585 --> 00:37:37,761
"Was it... was it number...
Did it get on the charts as number 12?
586
00:37:37,839 --> 00:37:41,264
"Was there a lot of radio play?"
The answer's, "No, man."
587
00:37:42,635 --> 00:37:44,854
Nobody didn't... Rodriguez?
588
00:37:46,097 --> 00:37:48,691
You know, that name didn't register.
589
00:37:49,476 --> 00:37:52,355
Although he looked like he was
a white guy but, even still, Rodriguez,
590
00:37:52,479 --> 00:37:55,358
everybody knew Rodriguez,
that's a Spanish name.
591
00:37:55,482 --> 00:37:58,281
A Latin name.
Latin music was not happening then.
592
00:37:58,359 --> 00:38:00,862
(male interviewer) How many records
do you think he sold in America?
593
00:38:00,945 --> 00:38:03,198
In America'? Six.
594
00:38:03,198 --> 00:38:05,292
Maybe my wife bought it,
maybe my daughter bought...
595
00:38:05,366 --> 00:38:09,041
She couldn't buy it, but maybe
Neil Bogart, maybe Dennis and Mike.
596
00:38:09,037 --> 00:38:13,383
Hey, look, man, you know,
it didn't sell here.
597
00:38:14,042 --> 00:38:16,886
There was some excitement about him.
598
00:38:16,961 --> 00:38:21,387
Couple of agents heard him
and wanted to bring him to California
599
00:38:21,382 --> 00:38:24,556
and, you know, when he came
to California he was nervous,
600
00:38:24,677 --> 00:38:26,725
and he turned his back to the audience
601
00:38:26,846 --> 00:38:29,065
and everybody said,
"Well, what the hell is this?"
602
00:38:29,057 --> 00:38:30,559
(male interviewer)
But the thing is that the guy sold
603
00:38:30,642 --> 00:38:33,395
hundreds of thousands of records
in another country.
604
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:35,739
(Avant) I'm going to South Africa to try
to chase somebody who's selling records?
605
00:38:35,814 --> 00:38:37,236
Shit, no, man.
606
00:38:37,232 --> 00:38:39,906
(male interviewer) But did you know
that he was big in South Africa?
607
00:38:39,901 --> 00:38:44,907
Rodriguez, young man, never happened
insofar as I'm concerned.
608
00:38:45,031 --> 00:38:46,408
Period.
609
00:38:46,574 --> 00:38:50,829
But if I'm really gonna try to track
down the money, how should I do it?
610
00:38:50,912 --> 00:38:53,415
Well, is that important, the money?
Or is Rod...
611
00:38:53,540 --> 00:38:58,922
Which is important? Rodriguez's story
or you worrying about the money?
612
00:38:59,003 --> 00:39:00,596
How many people in South Africa?
613
00:39:00,713 --> 00:39:03,432
40 million? 40 thousand?
40 million people? How many people?
614
00:39:03,550 --> 00:39:05,018
40 million people live in South Africa.
615
00:39:05,093 --> 00:39:08,723
Well, so they've been freed
for how long? Three hours?
616
00:39:08,930 --> 00:39:10,273
So what the fuck's
that supposed to mean?
617
00:39:10,265 --> 00:39:12,939
You told me at lunch,
they scratch records
618
00:39:13,059 --> 00:39:14,686
because they wouldn't let the lyrics...
619
00:39:14,769 --> 00:39:18,273
So the underground movement,
how big was it'? How big was it?
620
00:39:18,398 --> 00:39:20,947
(male interviewer) He sold
half a million records in South Africa.
621
00:39:21,067 --> 00:39:22,865
So he sold half a million records.
So what?
622
00:39:22,944 --> 00:39:24,696
I don't know who he sold them to.
623
00:39:24,779 --> 00:39:27,623
How many distributors did he have?
I have no idea.
624
00:39:27,699 --> 00:39:29,201
There are only...
There are three record labels.
625
00:39:29,284 --> 00:39:31,127
- I spoke to all the record label...
-Well, great.
626
00:39:31,244 --> 00:39:35,966
...bosses in South Africa who
has released his records. It was...
627
00:39:36,124 --> 00:39:38,718
Go back to 'em and tell 'em
to send me an account.
628
00:39:38,793 --> 00:39:41,216
You think it's something
I'm gonna worry about, a 1970 contract?
629
00:39:41,296 --> 00:39:43,970
If you do,
you're outta your goddamn mind.
630
00:39:44,090 --> 00:39:47,811
Buddha Records out of business.
I'm out of business.
631
00:39:48,928 --> 00:39:53,149
So you think they give a shit
about that? I know I wouldn't.
632
00:39:55,768 --> 00:39:57,145
(Segerman)
I've been looking for information
633
00:39:57,270 --> 00:39:58,897
about Rodriguez for a long time.
634
00:39:59,814 --> 00:40:03,068
I've even setup a web page
called The Great Rodriguez Hunt
635
00:40:03,151 --> 00:40:05,153
in the hope that
someone out there in cyberspace
636
00:40:05,278 --> 00:40:09,954
would post a message on the forum giving
us any information about Rodriguez.
637
00:40:10,450 --> 00:40:11,952
But there was nothing.
638
00:40:12,744 --> 00:40:14,667
At that stage I met Craig,
639
00:40:14,746 --> 00:40:18,000
who was the musicologist detective
who had read my liner notes
640
00:40:18,124 --> 00:40:20,252
and who was also
searching for Rodriguez.
641
00:40:20,335 --> 00:40:23,680
And he flew down to Cape Town
and we met in a coffee shop.
642
00:40:23,755 --> 00:40:26,508
And we exchanged
all the information we had.
643
00:40:26,674 --> 00:40:29,018
But unfortunately we had very little.
644
00:40:29,010 --> 00:40:33,265
And at that stage I remember we felt
it was probably best if we just stopped.
645
00:40:33,348 --> 00:40:34,850
(Bartholomew-Strydom)
So basically I was lost.
646
00:40:34,974 --> 00:40:36,692
I'd come to a dead end.
I couldn't find him.
647
00:40:36,684 --> 00:40:38,277
I didn't know where to look any more.
648
00:40:38,353 --> 00:40:40,697
I'd even visited the places
that he sang about.
649
00:40:40,813 --> 00:40:42,861
I'd been to London. Nothing.
650
00:40:42,857 --> 00:40:47,033
I'd been to Amsterdam.
He sings about Amsterdam. Nothing.
651
00:40:47,111 --> 00:40:49,955
And one day I'd basically given up.
I thought, "Well, this is it. "
652
00:40:50,031 --> 00:40:52,875
And one day, just by accident,
I was listening to the album in the car
653
00:40:52,992 --> 00:40:55,040
and I heard the song Inner City Blues.
654
00:40:55,119 --> 00:40:57,292
Great song. And the line came up.
655
00:40:57,372 --> 00:41:01,127
"I met a girl in Dearborn,
early six o'clock this morn.
656
00:41:01,209 --> 00:41:02,711
"A cold fact."
657
00:41:02,794 --> 00:41:05,798
Then I thought, "Hang on a minute."
I 'd never checked out Dearborn.
658
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:07,803
I didn't even know if it was a city
but then I thought,
659
00:41:07,882 --> 00:41:09,725
"Actually that sounds
like a town or a city."
660
00:41:09,801 --> 00:41:13,556
And I thought, "Hang on,
let me check it out in an atlas."
661
00:41:13,554 --> 00:41:18,731
So I went through to my old atlas
and pulled it out.
662
00:41:18,726 --> 00:41:22,071
I thought, "Let me see
what I could find here.
663
00:41:22,063 --> 00:41:24,566
"Let me see if I could find Dearborn."
664
00:41:24,732 --> 00:41:26,405
Urn... Dear...
665
00:41:27,235 --> 00:41:31,365
Then I found it.
Dearborn, Wayne, Michigan. F7.
666
00:41:34,909 --> 00:41:37,583
F...7.
667
00:41:37,704 --> 00:41:42,756
Dearborn. Part of Detroit.
That was a huge breakthrough in my mind.
668
00:41:42,834 --> 00:41:47,510
Detroit, home of Motown,
Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder,
669
00:41:48,172 --> 00:41:51,096
and, eventually, Mike Theodore,
the producer of the album.
670
00:41:55,930 --> 00:42:00,106
(Theodore) I was sitting in my condo,
just having a cup of coffee.
671
00:42:00,101 --> 00:42:04,106
I was looking out the window
watching the ocean. Phone rings.
672
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:06,942
It's a long-distance call
673
00:42:06,941 --> 00:42:08,614
from South Africa...
674
00:42:10,028 --> 00:42:13,077
from a writer whose name's
Craig Bartholomew,
675
00:42:13,448 --> 00:42:19,080
and he starts telling me
this amazing story.
676
00:42:20,246 --> 00:42:22,123
So he said, "Do you know that Rodriguez
677
00:42:22,123 --> 00:42:25,127
"has been selling in South Africa
for 25 years.
678
00:42:25,126 --> 00:42:27,549
"His albums are selling millions."
679
00:42:27,879 --> 00:42:29,552
I said, "What?"
680
00:42:29,630 --> 00:42:33,476
Then he's sitting there and he wants...
he starts telling me some stories.
681
00:42:33,551 --> 00:42:35,645
He said, "How did Rodriguez die?"
682
00:42:35,803 --> 00:42:39,979
And he's telling me information
that he had that Rodriguez had...
683
00:42:41,225 --> 00:42:43,148
blown his brains out on stage,
684
00:42:43,227 --> 00:42:45,480
or set himself on fire
and killed himself.
685
00:42:45,938 --> 00:42:48,032
I had 100 questions I wanted to ask.
686
00:42:48,107 --> 00:42:51,828
I was just hoping I could get
all my questions in, you know.
687
00:42:51,819 --> 00:42:54,413
"Why did he write this lyric?
Why did he write that lyric?
688
00:42:54,489 --> 00:42:58,585
"Where did he record this album?
Where did he record that album?"
689
00:42:58,659 --> 00:43:02,505
And we got talking and I asked him
a lot of questions and it was amazing.
690
00:43:02,497 --> 00:43:05,501
It was a rollercoaster ride
of questions and answers,
691
00:43:05,500 --> 00:43:08,845
and it was a euphoric moment
of just having finally broken through
692
00:43:08,961 --> 00:43:10,383
and discovered something.
693
00:43:10,379 --> 00:43:14,384
And finally I got to the one question
I wanted to know the answer of, was,
694
00:43:14,383 --> 00:43:18,559
"How did Rodriguez die?
Did he blow himself up on stage? Or...
695
00:43:18,679 --> 00:43:21,228
"What is this dramatic story?
696
00:43:21,224 --> 00:43:25,900
"Let's open up the lid on this
right away, and find out what happened."
697
00:43:25,895 --> 00:43:30,696
And Mike Theodore said,
"What do you mean dead? He's not dead.
698
00:43:32,652 --> 00:43:34,905
"Sixto is alive. He's alive and kicking.
699
00:43:35,029 --> 00:43:40,707
"The principal artist known as
Sixto Rodriguez is alive and kicking
700
00:43:40,827 --> 00:43:42,204
"and living in Detroit."
701
00:43:46,332 --> 00:43:49,552
(Harris) I... I can't remember who
called me and said, "They've found him."
702
00:43:49,544 --> 00:43:55,222
I said, "No. You're shitting me.
This isn't... No." (laughs)
703
00:43:55,842 --> 00:44:00,097
At first I thought it was a hoax.
I thought somebody was faking it.
704
00:44:01,347 --> 00:44:04,726
You know, it's like going
into Tutankhamen's tomb
705
00:44:04,851 --> 00:44:06,228
and finding the mummy.
706
00:44:06,352 --> 00:44:07,729
You know, it was like, "Wow, he lives."
707
00:44:07,895 --> 00:44:11,274
I remember dancing on the spot
when I was staying on the phone.
708
00:44:11,399 --> 00:44:15,245
And Craig and I were jumping up and down
saying, "We found him, we found him."
709
00:44:15,236 --> 00:44:17,739
It was the most exciting thing.
We'd actually done it.
710
00:44:17,905 --> 00:44:19,907
(# I Think of You by Rodriguez)
711
00:44:20,032 --> 00:44:25,129
# Just a song we shared out here
712
00:44:26,205 --> 00:44:30,756
# Brings memories back
when you were here
713
00:44:32,086 --> 00:44:37,092
# Of your smile, your easy laughter
714
00:44:37,925 --> 00:44:42,897
# Of your kiss, those moments after
715
00:44:43,097 --> 00:44:45,976
# I think of you
716
00:44:48,936 --> 00:44:50,654
(Bartholomew-Strydom) So that was it.
717
00:44:50,646 --> 00:44:53,490
I'd come to the point,
it was the end of the story.
718
00:44:53,608 --> 00:44:57,613
I was searching for a dead man.
One morning I discovered a living man.
719
00:44:57,612 --> 00:45:00,661
And to me that was the end of the story.
I wrote my article,
720
00:45:00,656 --> 00:45:03,125
I called it "Looking for Jesus."
721
00:45:03,117 --> 00:45:04,619
I faxed it to many individuals,
722
00:45:04,744 --> 00:45:05,791
many people involved,
723
00:45:05,953 --> 00:45:10,629
but somehow this article
made its way across the Atlantic
724
00:45:10,750 --> 00:45:13,128
and into the hands
of someone in America.
725
00:45:13,127 --> 00:45:15,971
And what I thought was the end of story
726
00:45:15,963 --> 00:45:18,682
was actually just the beginning
of another story,
727
00:45:18,674 --> 00:45:21,302
and the best part was still to come.
728
00:45:23,596 --> 00:45:26,190
'Cause I don't know where it is.
It might take a while.
729
00:45:26,182 --> 00:45:28,310
They do have the dates.
730
00:45:28,309 --> 00:45:31,188
"Three-year search for dead singer."
Yes.
731
00:45:31,312 --> 00:45:34,657
August '97. I was in Kansas.
732
00:45:34,649 --> 00:45:38,495
I got a copy of it to me at work.
I was on, like, a 24-hour shift.
733
00:45:38,611 --> 00:45:40,830
And then, I went online
734
00:45:40,988 --> 00:45:45,164
and that's when
I discovered the website.
735
00:45:45,284 --> 00:45:49,039
When I went online there was
this milk carton with a picture.
736
00:45:49,789 --> 00:45:54,716
And it said, "Wanted"
and "Have you seen this man?"
737
00:45:55,378 --> 00:45:58,348
I was like, "Matter of fact,
I have seen him before."
738
00:45:59,674 --> 00:46:04,396
I replied, "Rodriguez is my father.
I'm serious.
739
00:46:04,845 --> 00:46:07,689
"Do you really want to know
about my father?
740
00:46:07,682 --> 00:46:11,357
"Sometimes the fantasy
is better left alive."
741
00:46:11,352 --> 00:46:13,525
I don't know why I said that,
but anyway I did.
742
00:46:13,521 --> 00:46:17,367
And then I gave them e-mail address,
phone numbers,
743
00:46:17,358 --> 00:46:20,703
anything that they wanted to contact me.
And he phoned me.
744
00:46:26,325 --> 00:46:28,373
(Segerman) Well, we'd found out
that Rodriguez was alive.
745
00:46:28,369 --> 00:46:29,871
I'd spoken to Craig.
746
00:46:29,870 --> 00:46:32,714
I came to work and Alex McCrindle,
747
00:46:32,707 --> 00:46:34,755
who was the guy I worked
on the website with said,
748
00:46:34,750 --> 00:46:38,220
"You're not going to believe
what's on the website."
749
00:46:38,212 --> 00:46:41,887
And on the website was a forum
where people could post messages,
750
00:46:42,008 --> 00:46:43,555
and there was a message that said,
751
00:46:43,551 --> 00:46:46,225
"My name's Eva.
I'm Rodriguez's daughter."
752
00:46:46,345 --> 00:46:47,722
She'd left a phone number and she said,
753
00:46:47,847 --> 00:46:49,099
"I'd like to speak to someone
754
00:46:49,223 --> 00:46:50,566
in connection with this."
755
00:46:50,558 --> 00:46:52,777
So that night I phoned her.
756
00:46:52,893 --> 00:46:55,442
I said, "Hi, I'm Sugar,"
and she said, "I'm Eva,"
757
00:46:55,563 --> 00:46:58,066
and we had the most
amazing conversation.
758
00:46:58,065 --> 00:47:02,241
She explained to me who her father was,
what he had done, where he had been.
759
00:47:02,361 --> 00:47:05,911
She asked me who I was
and I explained why my name was Sugar
760
00:47:05,906 --> 00:47:08,409
and how I was involved with the website.
761
00:47:08,409 --> 00:47:10,628
And then at the end I said to her,
762
00:47:10,619 --> 00:47:13,088
"This has been the most
amazing thing for me,
763
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:14,923
"and what would be really great
is if I could,
764
00:47:14,915 --> 00:47:16,758
"at some point, speak to your dad.
765
00:47:16,876 --> 00:47:18,799
"I'd love it if I could
just say hello to him. "
766
00:47:18,794 --> 00:47:21,468
Because, for me,
this was son' of the end of the search
767
00:47:21,464 --> 00:47:23,432
and I just wanted to speak to this man.
768
00:47:23,424 --> 00:47:25,426
And then I went to bed.
769
00:47:25,426 --> 00:47:28,646
And 1:00 in the morning that night,
the phone rang.
770
00:47:29,430 --> 00:47:33,105
And my wife answers it
'cause it was her side of the bed.
771
00:47:33,225 --> 00:47:37,776
And I remember she picked up the phone
and her face just changed.
772
00:47:37,772 --> 00:47:41,948
She had this look of awe.
She said, "it's him."
773
00:47:42,068 --> 00:47:44,116
And I was in shock. I'd been sleeping
774
00:47:44,236 --> 00:47:47,331
and I ran into the other room,
into my study,
775
00:47:47,323 --> 00:47:49,826
and I picked up the phone
and she put hers down.
776
00:47:49,950 --> 00:47:52,499
And I said, "Hello?" and a voice said...
777
00:47:52,620 --> 00:47:54,463
(Rodriguez's voice on phone)
"Hello, is that Sugar?"
778
00:47:54,455 --> 00:47:58,301
And I knew, I just knew,
because I knew that voice.
779
00:47:58,292 --> 00:48:01,967
I'd heard that voice so many times
on the records, I knew it was him.
780
00:48:01,962 --> 00:48:03,805
I was talking to Rodriguez.
781
00:48:04,632 --> 00:48:08,136
That, for me, was one of
the greatest moments of my life.
782
00:49:17,371 --> 00:49:20,966
-(Rodriguez) Whenever you're ready.
-(male interviewer) Okay.
783
00:49:21,041 --> 00:49:23,214
(Rodriguez) Is this all right?
Should I be doing something though?
784
00:49:23,294 --> 00:49:26,594
Should I have a glass of water
or something? Is that right?
785
00:49:26,714 --> 00:49:29,934
-(male interviewer) Do you want?
-Yeah. I like that.
786
00:49:30,050 --> 00:49:32,803
Yeah, this is...
I'm supposed to be comfortable.
787
00:49:42,980 --> 00:49:47,076
So run the question to me again.
Just so I can hear it in my head.
788
00:49:48,444 --> 00:49:52,620
In the '70s and '80s, did you ever
get any contact from South Africa?
789
00:49:53,073 --> 00:49:55,167
Uh... No, I didn't.
790
00:49:57,161 --> 00:50:01,291
Maybe they didn't have a contact number
or something but, no, I didn't.
791
00:50:01,415 --> 00:50:03,588
How does that feel?
You weren't aware of something
792
00:50:03,667 --> 00:50:05,795
that would have changed
your life completely.
793
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:08,264
I mean, probably to the better.
794
00:50:08,756 --> 00:50:11,430
Well, I don't know if it would have been
for the better,
795
00:50:11,509 --> 00:50:14,763
but it's certainly a thought, you know.
796
00:50:15,638 --> 00:50:19,359
But wouldn't it have been nice to know
that you were a superstar?
797
00:50:19,433 --> 00:50:20,810
Uh, well...
798
00:50:25,523 --> 00:50:27,946
I don't know how to respond to that.
799
00:50:28,025 --> 00:50:32,326
After Coming From Reality,
did you wanna continue making albums?
800
00:50:32,446 --> 00:50:36,326
I would have liked to have continued
but nothing beats Reality.
801
00:50:36,325 --> 00:50:38,794
So I pretty much went back to work.
802
00:50:39,662 --> 00:50:41,130
What did you do?
803
00:50:41,205 --> 00:50:44,129
I... Well, I'd do hired labor.
804
00:50:44,291 --> 00:50:48,216
Demolition, renovation of buildings,
805
00:50:48,629 --> 00:50:53,055
of homes, you know. Restoration.
806
00:50:54,468 --> 00:50:55,811
Did you enjoy that'?
807
00:50:55,886 --> 00:51:00,642
I do. (stammering) It keeps the blood
circulating, keeps you fit, yeah.
808
00:51:01,141 --> 00:51:03,519
But it's quite far away from music.
809
00:51:03,519 --> 00:51:07,399
Uh... Yeah, quite a bit,
quite a different contrast, yeah.
810
00:51:07,481 --> 00:51:09,859
Did you continue
making music on your own?
811
00:51:09,984 --> 00:51:13,363
I do, I play guitar.
I love playing guitar.
812
00:51:13,487 --> 00:51:17,492
But I do love to listen.
I like to go see the shows and things.
813
00:51:17,575 --> 00:51:19,669
But I do get about.
814
00:51:19,868 --> 00:51:21,996
(# Street Boy by Rodriguez)
815
00:51:39,179 --> 00:51:44,026
# Street boy
You've been out too long
816
00:51:44,101 --> 00:51:49,073
# Street boy
Makes kind of sense to go home
817
00:51:49,064 --> 00:51:53,911
# Street boy
You're gonna end up alone
818
00:51:54,028 --> 00:51:56,622
# You need some love and understanding
819
00:51:56,697 --> 00:52:00,873
# Not that dead-end life you're planning
Street boy
820
00:52:08,792 --> 00:52:13,138
# You go home but you can't stay
821
00:52:13,631 --> 00:52:17,431
# Because something's
always pulling you away
822
00:52:18,385 --> 00:52:22,891
# You're fast hellos
And quick goodbyes
823
00:52:23,223 --> 00:52:27,478
# You're just a street boy
with the street lights in your eyes
824
00:52:28,062 --> 00:52:32,943
# You'd better get yourself together
Look for something better
825
00:52:33,067 --> 00:52:36,037
(Regan Rodriguez) He never said anything
about being disappointed.
826
00:52:36,111 --> 00:52:39,206
He would just move on,
continue to survive
827
00:52:39,323 --> 00:52:41,041
because you can't just give up.
828
00:52:41,116 --> 00:52:43,118
(male interviewer)
What did he do instead?
829
00:52:43,202 --> 00:52:44,875
He read a lot.
830
00:52:44,953 --> 00:52:48,457
He was involved in politics.
He was involved in the community.
831
00:52:48,540 --> 00:52:51,043
He would attend protests and rallies,
832
00:52:51,126 --> 00:52:54,676
if those were causes that
he believed in. He would take us along.
833
00:52:54,755 --> 00:52:58,976
He was always a proponent
of working for the people
834
00:52:59,051 --> 00:53:01,145
that maybe didn't always have a voice,
835
00:53:01,220 --> 00:53:06,067
or didn't have a chance to speak up,
the working class, the working poor.
836
00:53:07,226 --> 00:53:12,198
He had a lot of experience in that area.
837
00:53:14,108 --> 00:53:15,826
(Rick Emmerson) He approached the work
838
00:53:15,818 --> 00:53:17,570
from a different place than
most people do.
839
00:53:17,653 --> 00:53:19,451
He took it very, very seriously.
840
00:53:19,530 --> 00:53:21,908
Son' of like a sacrament, you know?
841
00:53:21,990 --> 00:53:26,712
He was going to do this dirty,
dirty work for eight or ten hours, okay?
842
00:53:26,787 --> 00:53:28,789
But he was dressed in a tuxedo.
843
00:53:28,872 --> 00:53:30,465
(chuckles)
844
00:53:31,208 --> 00:53:36,806
He had this kind of magical quality
that all genuine poets and artists have
845
00:53:37,214 --> 00:53:41,640
to elevate things.
To get above the mundane, the prosaic.
846
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:45,144
All the bullshit.
All the mediocrity that's everywhere.
847
00:53:45,973 --> 00:53:49,944
The artist, the artist is the pioneer.
848
00:53:50,811 --> 00:53:56,068
Even if his musical hopes were dashed,
the spirit remained.
849
00:53:56,525 --> 00:54:00,280
And he just had to keep finding a place,
refining the process
850
00:54:00,404 --> 00:54:02,498
of how to apply himself.
851
00:54:02,573 --> 00:54:04,541
He knew that there was something more.
852
00:54:04,616 --> 00:54:08,041
It was in the early '80s.
He wanted to do something,
853
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,214
do something righteous,
make a difference.
854
00:54:10,289 --> 00:54:13,964
So, lo and behold... (chuckles)
855
00:54:14,042 --> 00:54:16,261
...he told me that he
was gonna run for mayor,
856
00:54:16,336 --> 00:54:19,761
and I thought,
"Well, God bless you, Rodriguez.
857
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:23,219
"You know, if you can become Mayor
of Detroit, then anything is possible."
858
00:54:23,302 --> 00:54:24,770
(# Inner City Blues by Rodriguez)
859
00:54:24,845 --> 00:54:28,600
# Meta girl from Dearborn
Early six o'clock this morn
860
00:54:28,682 --> 00:54:30,275
# A cold fact
861
00:54:33,020 --> 00:54:36,900
# Asked about her bag
Suburbia's such a drag
862
00:54:36,899 --> 00:54:38,492
# Won't go back
863
00:54:41,487 --> 00:54:46,869
# Cos papa don't allow
no new ideas here
864
00:54:49,328 --> 00:54:51,205
Some old items from Rodriguez.
865
00:54:54,708 --> 00:54:59,805
This is his bumper sticker, from
the first time he ran for city council.
866
00:55:02,132 --> 00:55:05,352
And I think this is a copy
of the ballot.
867
00:55:05,803 --> 00:55:08,101
He didn't win an election, ever.
868
00:55:08,388 --> 00:55:13,690
139. There were 169 candidates.
Nine get elected.
869
00:55:14,645 --> 00:55:17,114
They spelled his name wrong.
870
00:55:25,155 --> 00:55:30,878
My relatives on my mother's side
of the family are European
871
00:55:31,495 --> 00:55:33,372
and Native American.
872
00:55:33,497 --> 00:55:36,216
And my father's family is Mexican.
873
00:55:36,291 --> 00:55:38,919
My grandfather came from Mexico.
874
00:55:38,919 --> 00:55:43,140
The Mexican came to Detroit
to work in the auto factories,
875
00:55:43,215 --> 00:55:48,893
so we were working-class people,
blue-collar workers, hard labor.
876
00:55:49,513 --> 00:55:55,065
Um, we lived in 26 different homes
and some houses didn't have bedrooms.
877
00:55:55,143 --> 00:55:57,362
Some houses didn't have bathrooms.
878
00:55:57,938 --> 00:56:02,068
And they weren't homes.
They were just places that we lived.
879
00:56:02,609 --> 00:56:06,455
But just because people are poor
or have little
880
00:56:07,114 --> 00:56:10,368
doesn't mean that, you know,
their dreams aren't big
881
00:56:10,450 --> 00:56:13,624
and their soul isn't rich, you know,
882
00:56:14,162 --> 00:56:18,087
and that's where the classes
and the prejudice come from
883
00:56:18,166 --> 00:56:20,669
is that there is a difference
between you and me,
884
00:56:20,752 --> 00:56:22,595
and there's a difference
between them and us.
885
00:56:23,714 --> 00:56:25,136
(# A Most Disgusting Song by Rodriguez)
886
00:56:25,215 --> 00:56:28,560
# I've played every kind of gig
there is to play now
887
00:56:30,888 --> 00:56:35,064
# I've played faggot bars, hooker bars,
motorcycle funerals
888
00:56:36,268 --> 00:56:40,614
# In opera houses, concert halls,
halfway houses
889
00:56:47,070 --> 00:56:50,700
# Well, I found that in all these places
that I've played
890
00:56:52,659 --> 00:56:56,209
# All the people that I've played for
are the same people
891
00:56:57,873 --> 00:57:02,003
# So if you'll listen, maybe you'll see
someone you know in this song
892
00:57:03,295 --> 00:57:05,514
# A most disgusting song
893
00:57:07,883 --> 00:57:10,261
(Regan) He wasn't just doing
your average carpentry, you know,
894
00:57:10,344 --> 00:57:13,018
he was really cleaning out the house.
895
00:57:13,096 --> 00:57:15,895
I mean, doing work that no one else
wanted to do.
896
00:57:16,725 --> 00:57:19,228
Really, no one else
wanted to do that work.
897
00:57:19,311 --> 00:57:25,239
He would come home, he would be covered
in dust and dirt, paint chips,
898
00:57:25,484 --> 00:57:28,613
from his day's work. Long days.
899
00:57:29,154 --> 00:57:33,910
I saw him take refrigerators
down on his back, downstairs.
900
00:57:34,826 --> 00:57:36,703
It was just a day at work for him,
901
00:57:36,787 --> 00:57:41,418
but I knew he was a harder worker than
a lot of other fathers that I knew of.
902
00:57:42,751 --> 00:57:45,220
(Sandra Rodriguez-Kennedy) It's a city
that tells you not to dream big,
903
00:57:45,295 --> 00:57:48,094
not to expect anything more.
904
00:57:48,173 --> 00:57:50,642
But he always took me to places
905
00:57:50,717 --> 00:57:54,096
that only certain elite people
would be able to go.
906
00:57:55,305 --> 00:57:57,649
So, he kind of instilled in me
that I can go anywhere I want,
907
00:57:57,724 --> 00:58:02,480
regardless of what my bank statement
says, and I'm going, you know.
908
00:58:03,063 --> 00:58:07,819
So, that's kinda how he was.
He showed me the top floors of places.
909
00:58:07,901 --> 00:58:10,825
I said, "I'm just as good as they are,"
you know.
910
00:58:10,904 --> 00:58:14,033
(Eva) He majored in philosophy
in university.
911
00:58:14,866 --> 00:58:18,496
My dad gave us a lot of exposure
to the arts.
912
00:58:18,578 --> 00:58:24,176
He would let us go into the libraries
and the museums and the science centres,
913
00:58:24,251 --> 00:58:27,004
and where that was our day care,
914
00:58:28,422 --> 00:58:32,928
and we toured the halls of the museum
in San Diego Rivera
915
00:58:33,010 --> 00:58:37,311
and, you know,
all Picasso and Delacroix and...
916
00:58:37,389 --> 00:58:41,189
We began to learn of life
outside of the city,
917
00:58:41,268 --> 00:58:43,942
and that's in books and paintings
and in music.
918
00:58:44,021 --> 00:58:45,398
(# Lifestyles by Rodriguez)
919
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:48,199
# The judges with meter-maid hearts
920
00:58:48,275 --> 00:58:51,404
# Or their supermarket justice starts
921
00:58:52,446 --> 00:58:55,450
# Frozen children inner city
922
00:58:58,076 --> 00:59:00,420
# Walkers in the paper rain
923
00:59:00,495 --> 00:59:03,544
# Waiting for those knights
that never came
924
00:59:04,833 --> 00:59:08,212
# The hijacked
trying so hard to be pretty
925
00:59:10,547 --> 00:59:14,268
# Night rains tap at my window
926
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:20,475
# Winds of my thoughts passing by
927
00:59:23,060 --> 00:59:27,065
# She laughed when I tried to tell her
928
00:59:29,399 --> 00:59:33,154
# Hello only ends in goodbye
929
00:59:56,843 --> 00:59:58,845
(Rodriguez) Well, I started playing
when I was 16,
930
00:59:58,845 --> 01:00:01,849
and the thing is,
it was a family guitar,
931
01:00:01,932 --> 01:00:07,029
and I played a lot of bars in the city
and clubs in the city, small rooms.
932
01:00:08,522 --> 01:00:11,446
And I met Mike Theodore
and Dennis Coffey
933
01:00:11,525 --> 01:00:14,028
and they came to the club
to see me play.
934
01:00:14,152 --> 01:00:18,032
I had a gig at a place called The Sewer,
935
01:00:18,532 --> 01:00:20,660
right out by the Detroit River,
936
01:00:20,784 --> 01:00:24,459
and then we got a record deal
from Clarence Avant,
937
01:00:24,538 --> 01:00:26,211
so that's how it started.
938
01:00:26,331 --> 01:00:30,131
But all those early years were,
you know... lot of work.
939
01:00:30,877 --> 01:00:34,552
I was at a Chrysler plant
called Dodge Maine,
940
01:00:34,631 --> 01:00:37,680
and I also worked
at Eldon and Lynch Road in Detroit.
941
01:00:37,801 --> 01:00:41,180
Worked in the heat treat department.
Stuff like that.
942
01:00:41,179 --> 01:00:43,181
A lot of heavy labor.
943
01:00:43,181 --> 01:00:47,186
But it was a good year for me.
This Cold Fact thing.
944
01:00:48,145 --> 01:00:52,400
I had achieved what I was trying to do,
is to get a product, you know.
945
01:00:52,524 --> 01:00:55,198
And it was going very well,
I thought, you know.
946
01:00:55,193 --> 01:01:00,415
How did it feel? A great feeling
of accomplishment. Actualization.
947
01:01:01,074 --> 01:01:03,202
(male interviewer) Did you believe
that it was a good album?
948
01:01:03,201 --> 01:01:04,703
(Rodriguez) Um...
949
01:01:04,828 --> 01:01:07,047
I did my best with it.
950
01:01:09,082 --> 01:01:11,710
The reviews were good on it, and...
951
01:01:12,669 --> 01:01:14,842
Yeah, I thought it was good.
952
01:01:16,923 --> 01:01:20,018
I'm not the one to ask that, though.
(chuckles)
953
01:01:20,093 --> 01:01:21,936
Ask that question to.
954
01:01:22,053 --> 01:01:23,600
But you go ahead, yeah.
955
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:25,432
Were you surprised that it didn't sell?
956
01:01:25,515 --> 01:01:26,937
Um...
957
01:01:28,101 --> 01:01:33,949
Was I surprised? It's the music business
so there's no guarantees, you know?
958
01:01:39,946 --> 01:01:42,290
(Segerman) So I told him,
"You're bigger than Elvis"
959
01:01:42,282 --> 01:01:43,875
and he said, "What do you mean?"
960
01:01:43,950 --> 01:01:47,625
I said, "In South Africa you are
more popular than Elvis Presley."
961
01:01:47,704 --> 01:01:49,126
And there was this pause,
962
01:01:49,247 --> 01:01:52,296
and I sensed he thought it was
a crank call and he was gonna hang up.
963
01:01:52,375 --> 01:01:55,754
So I said, "Listen, wait.
Listen, listen to me, wait.
964
01:01:55,879 --> 01:01:58,632
"I promise you, just come here.
You won't be disappointed."
965
01:01:59,090 --> 01:02:01,969
(Emmerson)
He's working his ass off in Woodbridge.
966
01:02:01,968 --> 01:02:05,643
One day, be brought this picture
of himself on a milk carton.
967
01:02:05,722 --> 01:02:07,816
(chuckles)
968
01:02:07,933 --> 01:02:12,609
And he'd say, "Emmerson, look at this.
You know, they're looking for me."
969
01:02:14,397 --> 01:02:17,992
I said,
"Really? Why is that, Rodriguez?"
970
01:02:18,902 --> 01:02:22,076
Next day he says,
"Emmerson, I gotta go on tour."
971
01:02:22,656 --> 01:02:25,000
I said, "Come on, Rodriguez,
are you serious?"
972
01:02:25,116 --> 01:02:26,993
(Rian Malan) Because I'm a journalist,
I doubted it.
973
01:02:26,993 --> 01:02:29,917
That sort of thing does not happen
in the rational universe.
974
01:02:29,996 --> 01:02:32,840
It does not happen.
It's against the laws of God and nature.
975
01:02:32,958 --> 01:02:35,336
This guy is coming to tour here,
he must be an imposter.
976
01:02:35,335 --> 01:02:38,179
It's a clever public relations scam.
977
01:02:38,171 --> 01:02:41,801
Actually, not even a clever
public relations scam. That's a stupid...
978
01:02:41,883 --> 01:02:46,389
'Cause it so obviously can't be true.
Only idiots would believe it. They...
979
01:02:48,556 --> 01:02:50,183
But I was wrong.
980
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:00,528
(Regan) We were always anxious,
of course, to get off the plane.
981
01:03:00,527 --> 01:03:02,074
That was a long flight.
982
01:03:02,070 --> 01:03:05,700
But we got off the plane
and we put our bags on our backs
983
01:03:05,699 --> 01:03:11,081
and, you know, they were heavy and
we just kept moving towards the airport.
984
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:15,584
And suddenly,
three, two limousines pulled up
985
01:03:17,669 --> 01:03:19,592
and we were sure
that they weren't for us.
986
01:03:19,713 --> 01:03:22,557
We were like kind of
walking around them.
987
01:03:22,549 --> 01:03:25,223
Like, "Oh, we better get out
of these people's way
988
01:03:25,343 --> 01:03:27,721
"'cause they're important people
in limos."
989
01:03:27,721 --> 01:03:30,725
But they were for us.
And that's when it began.
990
01:03:30,724 --> 01:03:34,729
It was all another world.
It was another world.
991
01:03:34,853 --> 01:03:40,075
(Eva) Just like you would see people...
over Madonna or...
992
01:03:40,191 --> 01:03:45,618
Like stepping out into the wind
and the paparazzi and all the...
993
01:03:45,613 --> 01:03:51,586
you know, the production assistants
and everybody are there to welcome him
994
01:03:51,703 --> 01:03:54,923
and take us into the VIP suite.
995
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:59,261
(Regan) The white carpeting.
You know, that was something that
996
01:03:59,252 --> 01:04:03,803
never would we ever even dream
of walking on white carpeting,
997
01:04:03,923 --> 01:04:05,971
especially in your shoes. (laughs)
998
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:09,479
(Segerman) They put him in a limo
and they drove him into the city.
999
01:04:09,471 --> 01:04:14,318
And along the way, on all the lampposts,
were placards advertising the concert.
1000
01:04:14,392 --> 01:04:17,271
And he saw his face on every lamppost
as it sped by
1001
01:04:17,270 --> 01:04:19,819
and he'd go,
"There I am, there I am, there I am."
1002
01:04:19,939 --> 01:04:22,818
(Eva) So we came
and we got to meet all the people.
1003
01:04:22,817 --> 01:04:26,617
We got to meet Craig Bartholomew
and their family and their kids
1004
01:04:26,613 --> 01:04:28,615
and Stephen Segerman.
1005
01:04:28,740 --> 01:04:32,461
And everybody was just so happy.
Everybody was thrilled.
1006
01:04:32,452 --> 01:04:33,920
We were even happier.
1007
01:04:34,454 --> 01:04:35,831
(Möller) Stephen phoned me.
1008
01:04:35,830 --> 01:04:38,174
He said, "You will never believe this..."
1009
01:04:39,459 --> 01:04:41,632
"But Rodriguez is coming to South Africa"
1010
01:04:41,628 --> 01:04:43,471
"and we can be the opening band."
1011
01:04:43,463 --> 01:04:47,093
"Do you wanna do it?"
I said, "Of course we wanna do it."
1012
01:04:48,426 --> 01:04:51,475
"Why? Where is he?"
"Now they found him."
1013
01:04:51,596 --> 01:04:55,146
"They found him, he's alive, he's gonna
come and tour in South Africa."
1014
01:04:55,141 --> 01:04:59,317
"Are we gonna be the opening band?"
So I couldn't really believe this.
1015
01:05:00,814 --> 01:05:05,490
And then I got all the information:
he's living in Detroit and everything.
1016
01:05:05,485 --> 01:05:07,203
And then a little while later he said,
1017
01:05:07,195 --> 01:05:09,823
"Look, it turns out
he hasn't got a band.
1018
01:05:09,948 --> 01:05:13,498
"Could we be the support band?"
I mean his band.
1019
01:05:14,452 --> 01:05:18,002
I remember, even then, we were sort of,
1020
01:05:19,499 --> 01:05:21,376
"Is this really gonna be Rodriguez?"
1021
01:05:21,376 --> 01:05:24,004
We'll only know
if he can actually sing these songs.
1022
01:05:24,129 --> 01:05:27,383
I mean, we don't know.
What if it's just some guy? (chuckles)
1023
01:05:27,882 --> 01:05:29,008
(Sandra) It was just like
1024
01:05:29,134 --> 01:05:30,351
one day we heard about it
1025
01:05:30,343 --> 01:05:32,641
and the next day we were there,
1026
01:05:34,013 --> 01:05:35,856
trying to believe our eyes,
1027
01:05:35,974 --> 01:05:38,853
thinking it was just all very shocking.
1028
01:05:38,977 --> 01:05:41,196
I don't know, he took to it really easy.
1029
01:05:41,187 --> 01:05:43,565
He just walked in and did his thing
1030
01:05:43,565 --> 01:05:47,195
and I was amazed that he did so well.
1031
01:05:47,193 --> 01:05:48,194
But he's not all
1032
01:05:48,319 --> 01:05:49,366
"head in the clouds" kinda guy.
1033
01:05:49,487 --> 01:05:53,208
He's a little bit too much grounded.
1034
01:05:53,283 --> 01:05:54,910
He didn't take advantage
1035
01:05:54,909 --> 01:05:57,037
of all the amenities and stuff.
1036
01:05:57,120 --> 01:05:59,919
He didn't sleep in the big
double king size bed.
1037
01:05:59,914 --> 01:06:03,760
He kinda curled up on the love seat
and I found him there and...
1038
01:06:03,751 --> 01:06:07,255
Yeah, he just didn't think somebody
should have to make another bed
1039
01:06:07,255 --> 01:06:09,257
because he messed it up or...
1040
01:06:09,257 --> 01:06:10,634
(Regan) There was a time
1041
01:06:10,717 --> 01:06:12,765
where I stayed in the house we were at
1042
01:06:12,886 --> 01:06:15,389
and everyone else had gone out.
1043
01:06:15,472 --> 01:06:17,099
The phone rang and it kept ringing,
1044
01:06:17,223 --> 01:06:19,317
so I decided to answer it.
1045
01:06:19,392 --> 01:06:20,769
And it was a reporter
1046
01:06:20,894 --> 01:06:22,737
looking to speak with Rodriguez
1047
01:06:22,812 --> 01:06:25,782
and set up time for an interview.
1048
01:06:26,483 --> 01:06:31,284
And then, before she hung up,
after I told her to call back later
1049
01:06:31,279 --> 01:06:33,657
to talk to someone
'cause I couldn't help her,
1050
01:06:33,740 --> 01:06:38,337
she told me that she wanted to know,
between she and I,
1051
01:06:38,411 --> 01:06:40,334
if it was the real Rodriguez.
1052
01:06:40,413 --> 01:06:41,915
(indistinct chatter)
1053
01:06:42,999 --> 01:06:45,297
(Möller) We were rehearsing with a CD
1054
01:06:45,293 --> 01:06:47,512
of the songs that we've got
1055
01:06:47,504 --> 01:06:48,926
in the studio here in Cape Town
1056
01:06:49,005 --> 01:06:52,475
on the day that he came
from the airport, when he arrived,
1057
01:06:52,467 --> 01:06:56,142
and we were actually in the middle
of a song when he walked in
1058
01:06:56,262 --> 01:06:58,936
and just took over the microphone
and finished the song.
1059
01:06:59,015 --> 01:07:01,484
We switched off the CD player
1060
01:07:01,476 --> 01:07:04,320
and it was, like, completely seamless.
1061
01:07:04,312 --> 01:07:05,689
Completely seamless.
1062
01:07:05,772 --> 01:07:07,945
I mean, "OK, this is the guy."
1063
01:07:08,024 --> 01:07:09,822
I think we all knew this is
1064
01:07:09,817 --> 01:07:11,945
gonna be something really special.
1065
01:07:29,963 --> 01:07:32,637
Thank you, Cape Town. Thank you.
1066
01:07:34,509 --> 01:07:35,556
(Regan) When we, uh...
1067
01:07:35,635 --> 01:07:36,727
initially got on a plane,
1068
01:07:36,803 --> 01:07:38,851
I thought maybe there'd be, hopefully,
1069
01:07:38,846 --> 01:07:41,065
20 people in the audience.
1070
01:07:41,516 --> 01:07:42,893
Hopefully. (laughs)
1071
01:07:44,185 --> 01:07:47,064
But it turned out really,
really different than that.
1072
01:07:47,188 --> 01:07:49,987
And there's old people and young people
1073
01:07:50,066 --> 01:07:53,161
and they're coming to see the show.
1074
01:07:53,236 --> 01:07:57,241
And there's my step-dad on the stage...
Before he went on stage,
1075
01:07:57,323 --> 01:07:59,417
'cause I wanted to take
a picture of the audience,
1076
01:07:59,492 --> 01:08:01,494
since nobody's gonna believe this.
1077
01:08:01,578 --> 01:08:03,046
(Bartholomew-Strydom)
You must remember, this guy,
1078
01:08:03,037 --> 01:08:06,086
it's like seeing someone like Elvis
come back from the dead.
1079
01:08:06,207 --> 01:08:07,675
People in the audience
still don't believe it.
1080
01:08:07,750 --> 01:08:09,593
They're standing there.
They're at the concert.
1081
01:08:09,669 --> 01:08:11,262
They've paid their money.
1082
01:08:11,337 --> 01:08:13,055
They still don't believe that Rodriguez
1083
01:08:13,047 --> 01:08:15,049
is actually gonna walk on that stage.
1084
01:08:15,049 --> 01:08:16,767
(audience cheering)
1085
01:08:41,909 --> 01:08:45,630
(Möller on speakers) Are you ready?
1086
01:08:45,622 --> 01:08:46,965
(all cheering wildly)
1087
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:48,587
Please welcome...
1088
01:08:49,375 --> 01:08:50,718
Rodriguez!
1089
01:08:51,127 --> 01:08:53,596
(# I Wonder by Rodriguez)
1090
01:09:18,946 --> 01:09:20,994
(loud cheering)
1091
01:09:29,123 --> 01:09:31,091
(Regan) It was almost
as if he didn't even have to play.
1092
01:09:31,167 --> 01:09:33,295
They were just happy to see him.
1093
01:09:33,378 --> 01:09:34,595
So, for a time,
1094
01:09:34,671 --> 01:09:37,641
I think they wanted to meet.
1095
01:09:38,508 --> 01:09:39,885
It was a reunion.
1096
01:09:41,052 --> 01:09:42,975
(Segerman) It was something
completely different.
1097
01:09:43,054 --> 01:09:45,182
It was for everybody there, I'm sure,
1098
01:09:45,306 --> 01:09:49,106
the most exciting concert they'd
ever been to. Because it was unique.
1099
01:09:49,185 --> 01:09:50,732
We'd never seen Rodriguez.
1100
01:09:50,812 --> 01:09:51,813
And all you heard
1101
01:09:51,896 --> 01:09:54,069
was the bass player just playing...
1102
01:09:54,857 --> 01:09:56,700
(mimicking intro bass)
1103
01:09:58,653 --> 01:09:59,745
And Rodriguez wandered out
1104
01:09:59,737 --> 01:10:00,863
to the front of the stage
1105
01:10:00,947 --> 01:10:01,948
and the bass player
1106
01:10:02,031 --> 01:10:03,032
actually just stopped playing.
1107
01:10:03,116 --> 01:10:04,163
And it took a while.
1108
01:10:04,242 --> 01:10:05,585
There was about five or ten minutes
1109
01:10:05,660 --> 01:10:08,539
of just people screaming at him.
1110
01:10:08,871 --> 01:10:10,373
(loud cheering)
1111
01:10:30,518 --> 01:10:32,987
Thanks for keeping me alive.
1112
01:10:38,985 --> 01:10:40,987
(intro continues playing)
1113
01:11:01,215 --> 01:11:02,387
# I wonder
1114
01:11:02,467 --> 01:11:05,095
# How many times you've been had
1115
01:11:05,178 --> 01:11:07,306
# And I wonder
1116
01:11:07,430 --> 01:11:09,899
# How many plans have gone bad
1117
01:11:09,974 --> 01:11:14,320
# I wonder how many times you had sex
1118
01:11:14,437 --> 01:11:15,939
# And I wonder
1119
01:11:16,022 --> 01:11:18,571
# Do you know who'll be next?
1120
01:11:18,649 --> 01:11:23,325
# I wonder
1121
01:11:26,532 --> 01:11:29,081
# Wonder I do
1122
01:11:31,913 --> 01:11:33,540
(Regan) I think to go
1123
01:11:33,623 --> 01:11:35,796
from being the outcast
1124
01:11:35,875 --> 01:11:40,847
to being, uh, who he really was.
1125
01:11:40,838 --> 01:11:46,265
Because it was as though it was him
again... and that was who he was,
1126
01:11:46,344 --> 01:11:49,769
a musician on stage,
playing for his fans.
1127
01:11:50,223 --> 01:11:52,271
(# Forget It by Rodriguez)
1128
01:11:53,935 --> 01:11:57,781
# It didn't work out
But don't ever doubt how I felt
1129
01:11:58,648 --> 01:12:00,025
# About you
1130
01:12:04,070 --> 01:12:07,700
# But thanks for your time
1131
01:12:11,536 --> 01:12:14,710
(Bartholomew-Strydom) I thought
I would see him being bewildered
1132
01:12:14,789 --> 01:12:17,292
at all these people staring up at him.
1133
01:12:17,375 --> 01:12:20,845
I saw the opposite.
I saw this absolute tranquility.
1134
01:12:20,837 --> 01:12:24,512
There was absolute serenity on his face.
Total.
1135
01:12:24,924 --> 01:12:28,849
It's like he had arrived at that thing,
at that place
1136
01:12:28,845 --> 01:12:31,223
he'd tried to find his whole life.
1137
01:12:31,305 --> 01:12:33,649
(Segerman) Home is acceptance.
1138
01:12:34,058 --> 01:12:37,562
Here's a guy who'd lived somewhere else,
on the other side of the earth,
1139
01:12:37,645 --> 01:12:40,899
and it was almost as if
he had found his home.
1140
01:12:40,898 --> 01:12:42,900
(Bartholomew-Strydom)
And I looked around at all these people
1141
01:12:42,984 --> 01:12:46,659
and I thought, "This is
a once-in-a-lifetime experience.
1142
01:12:46,737 --> 01:12:49,786
"This is never going to happen again."
1143
01:13:23,190 --> 01:13:25,067
(inaudible over cheering)
1144
01:13:40,416 --> 01:13:42,919
(Malan) Well, isn't this all
our great fate?
1145
01:13:42,919 --> 01:13:47,846
Your dreams of yourself, the higher
forms of yourself is that one day
1146
01:13:47,924 --> 01:13:52,475
you will be recognised and that
your talents and everything else,
1147
01:13:53,429 --> 01:13:56,023
will suddenly become visible
to the world.
1148
01:13:56,098 --> 01:14:00,604
I mean, most of us die
without coming anywhere close
1149
01:14:00,686 --> 01:14:03,781
to that sort of magic.
1150
01:14:03,856 --> 01:14:05,233
I tried to get him to talk about that
1151
01:14:05,316 --> 01:14:06,613
when I interviewed him,
1152
01:14:06,692 --> 01:14:08,114
about how strange it was,
1153
01:14:08,194 --> 01:14:10,413
and I got absolutely nothing back.
1154
01:14:10,488 --> 01:14:12,081
Absolutely nothing back.
1155
01:14:12,156 --> 01:14:13,373
And I couldn't tell whether
1156
01:14:13,449 --> 01:14:15,622
he was just like sort of cripplingly shy
1157
01:14:15,701 --> 01:14:16,827
or whether I was
1158
01:14:16,911 --> 01:14:18,037
asking the wrong questions
1159
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:19,167
or there was a language barrier
1160
01:14:19,246 --> 01:14:20,463
or whatever. He just...
1161
01:14:20,581 --> 01:14:25,587
Maybe that was OK as well
because he preserved his mystery.
1162
01:14:25,670 --> 01:14:27,718
I walked away
from that interview saying,
1163
01:14:28,005 --> 01:14:30,679
"This is all too strange to be true."
1164
01:14:30,758 --> 01:14:33,386
It remains too strange to be true.
1165
01:14:33,469 --> 01:14:34,721
"These are the days
1166
01:14:34,804 --> 01:14:36,351
"of miracles and wonder."
1167
01:14:36,430 --> 01:14:37,977
(loud cheering)
1168
01:14:58,869 --> 01:15:01,122
(Rodriguez) Oh, they were so sweet.
1169
01:15:01,205 --> 01:15:03,378
I didn't believe it.
1170
01:15:03,457 --> 01:15:06,210
And I still don't, but the thing is...
1171
01:15:06,293 --> 01:15:12,016
So when I went on stage
5,000 seats all set up,
1172
01:15:12,008 --> 01:15:14,352
white seats, and the thing is...
1173
01:15:14,677 --> 01:15:17,271
And I said, "This is..."
1174
01:15:18,556 --> 01:15:23,187
So when I played a show, they jumped
out of their seats and rushed the stage.
1175
01:15:24,895 --> 01:15:29,071
South Africa made me feel like
more than a prince.
1176
01:15:29,734 --> 01:15:33,079
(Eva) And then signing the autographs
for, like, a couple of hours.
1177
01:15:33,070 --> 01:15:37,291
I mean, just the line of people
bringing their guitars to be signed,
1178
01:15:37,366 --> 01:15:39,414
bringing their CDs and...
1179
01:15:39,493 --> 01:15:40,961
(Regan) The most amazing thing I'd seen
1180
01:15:41,037 --> 01:15:43,916
was the man with his tattoo
of the Cold Fact.
1181
01:15:43,998 --> 01:15:48,128
He was a Rodriguez impersonator.
That just stoked my fire.
1182
01:15:48,127 --> 01:15:51,222
I was like,
"Man, that is just too crazy."
1183
01:15:54,091 --> 01:15:56,310
I have with me here,
presented to Rodriguez
1184
01:15:56,385 --> 01:15:58,308
for sales of the album Cold Fact.
1185
01:15:58,429 --> 01:16:00,306
(whooping and cheering)
1186
01:16:04,268 --> 01:16:06,145
Now just tell the States that,
OK, will you?
1187
01:16:06,145 --> 01:16:07,613
(all laughing)
1188
01:16:07,730 --> 01:16:11,985
American singer Rodriguez
is certainly alive and well
1189
01:16:11,984 --> 01:16:14,328
and with us in the Front Row tonight.
Welcome.
1190
01:16:14,445 --> 01:16:15,913
Very kind. How are you?
1191
01:16:15,988 --> 01:16:18,912
I've heard some really riveting tales
about your "death."
1192
01:16:18,991 --> 01:16:21,995
I mean, they range from you pouring
petrol all over yourself on stage
1193
01:16:22,078 --> 01:16:27,084
and committing suicide to taking
a drug overdose and dying in prison.
1194
01:16:37,259 --> 01:16:42,982
(Eva) Yeah, it was a beautiful,
beautiful dream
1195
01:16:44,975 --> 01:16:47,694
and then you gotta go back. (laughs)
1196
01:16:47,812 --> 01:16:50,440
My dad said he's got two lives.
1197
01:16:51,524 --> 01:16:55,700
The carriage turns into the pumpkin bus
or something. It's like...
1198
01:16:55,820 --> 01:16:58,198
(male interviewer)
Did people in Detroit believe you
1199
01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:01,375
when you came back
and told them what had happened?
1200
01:17:01,367 --> 01:17:05,497
You know, people in Detroit
need to hear something good.
1201
01:17:06,330 --> 01:17:08,378
I'm not sure how much of it
they believed
1202
01:17:08,374 --> 01:17:10,877
because it is a grandiose story.
1203
01:17:12,044 --> 01:17:13,637
It sounds like something
you would make up
1204
01:17:13,712 --> 01:17:16,966
if you were bragging on some dream
or something.
1205
01:17:18,050 --> 01:17:20,473
(Ferretti) He was really quite famous.
1206
01:17:20,553 --> 01:17:23,227
He'd be, you know,
tearing down this old shack
1207
01:17:23,305 --> 01:17:26,900
or he'd be sweeping up filth or dirt
1208
01:17:26,892 --> 01:17:30,066
and he started to show me one day,
and I didn't believe him,
1209
01:17:30,146 --> 01:17:33,992
about the album
and how it got to be so popular.
1210
01:17:34,066 --> 01:17:35,739
Somebody had a bootleg copy
of this thing
1211
01:17:35,860 --> 01:17:37,908
and it spread around and everyone...
1212
01:17:37,987 --> 01:17:42,663
It got to be so popular
that children could recite it
1213
01:17:42,741 --> 01:17:47,087
and sing the song word for word...
all of the songs word for word.
1214
01:17:47,163 --> 01:17:50,588
And I had never heard of the album
and I said, "Can you get me an album?"
1215
01:17:50,666 --> 01:17:52,088
And he couldn't even get me one.
1216
01:17:52,168 --> 01:17:55,012
I mean, that's how
obscure of a thing it was.
1217
01:17:55,087 --> 01:18:00,093
But he had all these photos and stuff,
with these giant crowds,
1218
01:18:00,092 --> 01:18:03,096
20,000 people,
like Woodstock or something.
1219
01:18:03,179 --> 01:18:04,772
Like, "Are you kidding me? That's you?"
1220
01:18:06,098 --> 01:18:09,102
I thought it was Photoshopped
or something. I didn't believe him.
1221
01:18:09,185 --> 01:18:12,860
But he had all these giant crowds
and he was quite content
1222
01:18:12,938 --> 01:18:16,613
to just go and sweep up people's lawns
1223
01:18:16,609 --> 01:18:20,614
or clean up and do manual labor.
He stayed.
1224
01:18:21,614 --> 01:18:27,121
He lives a very, very, very modest life.
1225
01:18:29,038 --> 01:18:30,415
Definitely.
1226
01:18:31,123 --> 01:18:33,296
There's definitely no excess,
1227
01:18:34,752 --> 01:18:39,883
and he definitely still works hard
in order to make ends meet.
1228
01:18:40,591 --> 01:18:46,473
And there's no glamour to his life
in that sense.
1229
01:18:46,472 --> 01:18:49,146
(male interviewer)
But he must be a rich man today?
1230
01:18:49,141 --> 01:18:51,314
(Regan) No.
1231
01:18:51,393 --> 01:18:55,318
Rich in a lot of things
but perhaps not material things.
1232
01:18:55,397 --> 01:18:57,741
I guess it just never got to that.
1233
01:18:57,816 --> 01:18:59,409
(male interviewer) But he's sold
hundreds of thousands of records
1234
01:18:59,485 --> 01:19:00,987
in South Africa.
1235
01:19:00,986 --> 01:19:02,408
Well, yes.
1236
01:19:03,489 --> 01:19:07,289
But I believe there's a great deal
of perhaps bootlegging,
1237
01:19:08,494 --> 01:19:11,714
piracy, such like that. Perhaps...
1238
01:19:12,957 --> 01:19:15,176
Perhaps other people are rich.
1239
01:19:19,505 --> 01:19:21,803
(# I'll Slip Away by Rodriguez)
1240
01:19:34,061 --> 01:19:38,316
# And I forget about the girl
that said no
1241
01:19:39,233 --> 01:19:43,158
# Then I'll tell who I want where to go
1242
01:19:43,821 --> 01:19:47,997
# And I'll forget about your lies
and deceit
1243
01:19:48,701 --> 01:19:52,706
# And your attempts to be so discreet
1244
01:19:53,163 --> 01:19:57,919
# Maybe today
Yeah
1245
01:19:58,377 --> 01:20:00,425
# I'll slip away
1246
01:20:03,215 --> 01:20:07,265
# And you can keep
your symbols of success
1247
01:20:07,928 --> 01:20:12,058
# Then I'll pursue my own happiness
1248
01:20:12,683 --> 01:20:16,062
# And you can keep your clocks
and routines
1249
01:20:16,186 --> 01:20:17,779
(Segerman) You know,
when I think about that night
1250
01:20:17,771 --> 01:20:19,739
when I spoke to Eva on the telephone,
1251
01:20:20,441 --> 01:20:23,615
we could not have imagined
how much our lives were gonna change
1252
01:20:23,610 --> 01:20:25,283
after that phone call.
1253
01:20:25,279 --> 01:20:27,281
Eva came on tour with Rodriguez
1254
01:20:27,406 --> 01:20:30,080
and the organizers arranged
a chaperone bodyguard
1255
01:20:30,075 --> 01:20:32,624
to drive them around
and they fell in love.
1256
01:20:32,619 --> 01:20:34,121
And they have a child.
1257
01:20:34,246 --> 01:20:38,797
So Rodriguez has a South African
grandson, a South African grandchild.
1258
01:20:38,917 --> 01:20:42,296
For me, I used to be a jeweler
in Johannesburg.
1259
01:20:42,296 --> 01:20:44,765
I now live in Cape Town
and have a music store.
1260
01:20:44,757 --> 01:20:47,761
Things changed so much for us.
1261
01:20:47,885 --> 01:20:50,263
But, except for one person,
and that's Rodriguez.
1262
01:20:50,262 --> 01:20:52,481
For him, nothing has changed.
1263
01:20:52,473 --> 01:20:56,103
The life that he was living
is still the life that he's living now.
1264
01:20:56,101 --> 01:21:00,322
(Emmerson) What he's demonstrated
very clearly is that you have a choice.
1265
01:21:00,314 --> 01:21:03,488
He took all that torment,
all that agony,
1266
01:21:03,484 --> 01:21:05,612
all that confusion and pain,
1267
01:21:05,611 --> 01:21:08,410
and he transformed it
into something beautiful.
1268
01:21:09,114 --> 01:21:11,287
He's like the silk worm, you know?
1269
01:21:11,283 --> 01:21:16,460
You take this raw material
and you transform it.
1270
01:21:16,580 --> 01:21:19,959
And you come out with something
that wasn't there before.
1271
01:21:20,084 --> 01:21:21,506
Something beautiful.
1272
01:21:21,502 --> 01:21:25,348
Something perhaps transcendent.
Something perhaps eternal.
1273
01:21:25,464 --> 01:21:27,512
Insofar as he does that,
1274
01:21:27,633 --> 01:21:32,810
I think he's representative
of the human spirit, of what's possible.
1275
01:21:32,805 --> 01:21:36,480
That you have a choice.
"And this has been my choice,
1276
01:21:36,475 --> 01:21:38,694
"to give you Sugar Man."
1277
01:21:38,685 --> 01:21:40,813
Now, have you done that? Ask yourself.
1278
01:21:40,938 --> 01:21:42,360
(# Crucify Your Mind by Rodriguez)
1279
01:21:42,439 --> 01:21:45,363
# Was it a huntsman or a player
1280
01:21:45,442 --> 01:21:48,036
# That made you pay the cost
1281
01:21:48,153 --> 01:21:50,872
# That now assumes relaxed positions
1282
01:21:50,989 --> 01:21:53,959
# And prostitutes your loss?
1283
01:21:54,034 --> 01:21:56,878
# Were you tortured by your own thirst
1284
01:21:56,870 --> 01:21:59,669
# In those pleasures that you seek
1285
01:21:59,665 --> 01:22:02,544
# That made you Tom the Curious
1286
01:22:02,543 --> 01:22:05,137
# That makes you James the Weak?
1287
01:22:15,806 --> 01:22:20,186
# But you claim
you've got something going
1288
01:22:22,980 --> 01:22:25,859
# Something you call unique
1289
01:22:29,027 --> 01:22:31,780
# But I've seen your self-pity showing
1290
01:22:34,199 --> 01:22:37,703
# As the tears roll down your cheeks
1291
01:22:48,255 --> 01:22:50,929
# Soon you know I'll leave you
1292
01:22:50,924 --> 01:22:53,552
# And I'll never look behind
1293
01:22:53,635 --> 01:22:56,434
# Cos I was born for the purpose
1294
01:22:56,555 --> 01:22:59,274
# That crucifies your mind
1295
01:22:59,266 --> 01:23:01,985
# So con, convince your mirror
1296
01:23:02,102 --> 01:23:04,901
# As you've always done before
1297
01:23:04,980 --> 01:23:07,654
# Giving substance to shadows
1298
01:23:07,733 --> 01:23:10,907
# Giving substance ever more
1299
01:23:20,662 --> 01:23:25,168
# And you assume
you got something to offer
1300
01:23:28,003 --> 01:23:30,472
# Secrets shiny and new
1301
01:23:33,634 --> 01:23:36,353
# But how much of you is repetition
1302
01:23:39,306 --> 01:23:41,934
# That you didn't whisper to him too
1303
01:23:54,446 --> 01:23:56,448
(# Sugar Man by Rodriguez)
1304
01:24:01,620 --> 01:24:06,126
# Sugar Man, won't you hurry?
1305
01:24:07,459 --> 01:24:11,339
# Cos I'm tired of these scenes
1306
01:24:12,047 --> 01:24:16,473
# For a blue coin,
won't you bring back
1307
01:24:17,719 --> 01:24:21,644
# All those colours to my dreams?
1308
01:24:23,225 --> 01:24:28,026
# Silver magic ships, you carry
1309
01:24:28,647 --> 01:24:33,198
# Jumpers, coke, sweet Mary Jane
1310
01:24:36,363 --> 01:24:40,994
# Sugar man met a false friend
1311
01:24:41,868 --> 01:24:45,714
# On a lonely dusty road
1312
01:24:46,373 --> 01:24:50,674
# Lost my heart when I found it
1313
01:24:51,837 --> 01:24:55,683
# It had turned to dead black coal
1314
01:24:57,259 --> 01:25:02,015
# Silver magic ships, you carry
1315
01:25:02,681 --> 01:25:07,061
# Jumpers, coke, sweet Mary Jane
1316
01:25:10,022 --> 01:25:14,619
# Sugar man, you're the answer
1317
01:25:15,193 --> 01:25:19,539
# That makes my questions disappear
1318
01:25:20,115 --> 01:25:24,712
# Sugar man, cos I'm weary
1319
01:25:25,370 --> 01:25:29,591
# Of those double games I hear
1320
01:25:32,544 --> 01:25:34,797
# Sugar Man
1321
01:25:35,380 --> 01:25:37,553
# Sugar Man
1322
01:25:37,883 --> 01:25:42,389
# Sugar Man
1323
01:25:42,763 --> 01:25:45,016
# Sugar Man
1324
01:25:45,557 --> 01:25:47,559
# Sugar Man
1325
01:25:48,101 --> 01:25:50,069
# Sugar Man
1326
01:25:50,094 --> 01:25:52,094
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