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[wind gusting]

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[chirping]

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[Mark Henderson]
What I wanted to do first
is to give you an image

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of what drives me
forward in fusion.

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[Henderson]
Imagine you're reaching up
and you're grabbing the sun,

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something of the order of
a 100 million degrees Celsius,

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and you want to put
the sun in a bottle.

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And we have ways of doing that.
We create a magnetic model.

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Compared to anything
that mankind has ever
done in the past,

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be it walking on the moon,
be it decoding DNA,

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this is a great challenge.

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We, as humans, we're lazy.
[chuckles]

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In the sense that if we have
a choice of going

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a very easy path
or very complicated path,

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we would always go
the easy path.

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And that's what
we're doing with energy.

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We're burning fossil fuels,

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coal, natural gas, crude oil,

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and that is changing
the environment.

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We're similar to,
I hate to say it, to yeast,

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where the yeast basically
multiply, multiply, multiply,

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eat up all of the flour
and the dough

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until basically they die off
from their own excrement,

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uh, because they've just eaten
up all their resources,

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and they've died from their own
pollution that they've created.

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We have to find a clean source

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that's going to be available
for lifetimes,

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and that's what fusion is.

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I really feel that if we don't
crack fusion, we are doomed,

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to be honest.

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[man] What we're trying
to do here is to make

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a artificial star.

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Stars have some things
we don't have on Earth,

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size and mass.

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The Sun, for example,
is a very nice fusion reactor

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that enjoys considerable
public support,

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and it works
on the basis of gravity

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plus its magnetic field,
uh, to confine the plasma.

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Now, the sun is really big,

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800,000 miles,
something like, across.

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Uh, we clearly don't want
anything that big,

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so we have to rely
on the magnetic fields alone.

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That turns out to be doable,

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but technologically difficult
to do on a large scale.

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And so we've been learning
how to do this

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for about 40 or 50 years.

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What's amazing about work in
that era is we didn't know

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what the energy process
that drove stars was.

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[keyboard clacking]

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Hans Bethe,
the nuclear physicist,

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uh, was at a seminar,

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and the next day
he was gonna give a talk

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where he talked about a fusion
fuel cycle for the stars.

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But he had a date that night,
and so they went out for a walk.

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And he came out
with what has to be
the best line ever,

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which is, "Aren't the starts
beautiful tonight?

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And right now, I'm the only guy
in the world who knows why."

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[TV host]
In the sun's core,

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when these particles
are accelerated to high speeds

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and collide...
[claps hands]

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...they fuse.

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[man] Fusion fuel is in,
essentially, infinite supply

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and is available to all
countries at negligible cost.

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The fuel, or fusion...
is in common water.

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Fusion will produce no noxious
chemical combustion products,

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and there will be absolutely
no chance of a runaway reaction.

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And fusion will not
involve materials

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that could be stolen or used
for clandestine purposes.

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When I came into this project
almost 20 years ago,

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there was a tremendous amount
of enthusiasm.

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Everyone was confident
of success.

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[man]
In the Zeta apparatus,

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we have produced temperatures

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which are about
one-third of those

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at the center of the sun.

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[man]
But this enthusiasm

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was a kind of
ignorant enthusiasm.

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As fusion researchers
have painfully discovered,

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it's just not that simple.

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After this initial enthusiasm,

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then came a decade
of caution and skepticism.

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And now, after 20 years,
we're back to enthusiasm.

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[man] In the early 1980s,
we expect to create

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many thermal megawatts

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of fusion energy
for the first time.

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[Michel Laberge]
So the whole planet
needs a lot of energy.

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And so far, we've been running
mostly on fossil fuels.

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Been a good run.

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It got us to where we are,
but we have to stop.

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So we are trying different
types of energy now,

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alternative energy.

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But it proved quite difficult
to find something

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that's as convenient
and as cost-effective

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as oil, gas, and coal.

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Now, we know of two way
of making, er, nuclear energy:

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Fission and fusion.

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Now, in fission, you take
a big nucleus,

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you break it in part, in two,
and it makes lots of energy.

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This is how the
nuclear reactor today works.

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Works pretty good.

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And then there is fusion.

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Now, I like fusion.
Fusion's much better.

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So you take two small nucleus,
you put it together,

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and you make helium.

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And that's very nice.
Makes lots of energy.

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And if the whole planet would
run on fusion, it would run--

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We could extract
the fuel from the ocean,

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it would run for billions
and billions of years.

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Now, if fusion is so great,
why don't we have it.

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Where is it?

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Well, there's always
a bit of a catch.

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Fusion is really,
really hard to do.

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Physics-wise, fusion is the,
the fusion, ha-ha,

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of two nucleus.

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Usually, you use
a hydrogen nucleus

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or isotope of hydrogen.

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And when they touch each other,
they fuse together,

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and they make helium

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and release a lot of energy
in the form of a fast neutron.

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So this is the, the nuclear
reaction in the center.

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Now the problem is
those two nucleus,

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they're electrically charged,
they're both positive,

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so they don't want
to stick together.

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They go like this,
whoo, shoo,

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and they never fuse.

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So in order to fuse, you have
to throw them at great speed.

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And speed in a gas
is the temperature.

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So you have to heat the gas
so the thermal agitation

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is fast enough so the nucleus
can touch each other.

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And that temperature is
a 150 million degrees C.

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That's pretty hot.
And this is how the stars work.

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The-The stars are very hot

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and inside the star,
there is this fusion reaction.

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So on the Earth here,
we need to heat the gas

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to 150 million degrees C.

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And the other problem is a gas
that hot wants to cool down.

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So it cools down really quickly.

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So you put some energy
in there to heat it up,

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and then the heat escape.

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And when it's hot enough,
it makes some reaction,

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it makes some fusion,
it makes some energy.

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So the name of the game
is to try to get

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more energy out than you put in.

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[clanking]

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[man] The world's
most ambitious attempt

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to harvest fusion
as a source of power

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is taking shape in France.

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The project is costing
13 billion pounds

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and it's being backed by
a whole swathe of countries

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around the world.

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[Ken Blackler]
ITER's going to be built
from about a million pieces,

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so it's a real nightmare

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to know where pieces are
and don't lose them,

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know which piece goes where,

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wh-what is this piece
that I'm looking at.

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We build the tokamak
from the bottom up,

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so you can only build it
in a certain way.

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So if a certain piece
is missing,

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we'll have to wait for it.

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So it's key--
At the moment, what we're doing

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is a very large planning effort
with all the members

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to make sure that each piece
is delivered to us

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in good time
and at the right time.

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[Guenter Janeschitz]
The parties all want to learn
all the technologies,

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which means you not giving
one component to a party,

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you're giving a piece of a
component, and the other party

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wants another piece
of the same component

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so that they all can learn
the technology.

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It is luckily not so that
we have seven pieces

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-of each component that
it will be too difficult...
-[man laughs]

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but we have sometimes
three or four pieces

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of each component,
and that means...

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We have to talk to our partners,
to the members,

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in all the-- as you say,

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in all these countries
around the world,

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in Korea, in Japan,
in Russia, China, US, India.

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You have not
one guy to deal with.

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You have three
or four guys to deal with

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for the same component.

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We are pushing the edge
of technology

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and therefore, sometimes
we run into problems

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and we have to solve
these problems.

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[man]
Critics point out that the costs
have trebled in five years.

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They say the whole project
is a gamble

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that won't pay off.

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[Janeschitz] Will we be able,
with our complex structure,

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and the money we have,
to be in time?

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This is actually the most, uh,
difficult thing at the moment,

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to stay in time.

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[man]
What's slowly taking shape here

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in the southern
French countryside

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could provide the answer
to the world's energy crisis,

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or it might prove one of
the most expensive failures

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in scientific history.

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[Mark Henderson]
So I'm gonna try
to go through quickly.

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I wanna give you an idea
of the realistic schedule.

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I received an email this morning
of a new first plasma date,

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which is different
from the first plasma date

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that you will see, uh,

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or which was the first plasma
date of about two weeks ago,

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which is different
from what you'll see.

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So there's three iterations
behind the first plasma date.

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When ITER organization
came about in 2006,

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we said that we would be
producing the first plasma

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00:14:05,645 --> 00:14:07,080
in 10 years.

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00:14:07,114 --> 00:14:08,581
And if you guys do
the math real quickly,

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00:14:08,615 --> 00:14:12,252
you realize that we're not ready
for first plasma next year.

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00:14:27,134 --> 00:14:29,269
Not sure where
I'm gonna put this guy.

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00:14:30,637 --> 00:14:32,205
[panting]
It's a toad.

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-[man] Where was that?
-He was inside the compost.

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00:14:37,677 --> 00:14:41,181
So he digs underneath...
in the compost pile

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00:14:41,214 --> 00:14:42,249
to stay warm.

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00:14:42,282 --> 00:14:45,185
My problem is that I turn
the compost all the time,

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00:14:45,218 --> 00:14:48,455
so I don't want him
to go in there again.

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00:14:48,488 --> 00:14:50,023
I'm gonna put him
underneath here.

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00:14:52,993 --> 00:14:54,127
Back when I started in fusion,

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00:14:54,161 --> 00:14:58,098
back in the 19-- mid-1980s,

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the idea was that fusion
was gonna be successful,

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00:15:01,168 --> 00:15:04,404
and we would have
fusion on the grid

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00:15:04,437 --> 00:15:06,639
in about 50 years.

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00:15:06,673 --> 00:15:10,410
And now, it's, uh,
35 years into my--

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00:15:10,443 --> 00:15:12,279
30 years into my career now.

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Up until about 2000,
the year 2000,

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we were just advancing
and advancing

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at really a fast rate.

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And now, the problem is
is that, uh,

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in order to make the next step,

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we just need to go
to a bigger machine

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00:15:28,528 --> 00:15:30,397
and unfortunately,
bigger machines

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take longer to build,
are much more complex.

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I know that I will be retiring
before ITER's successful,

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00:15:39,239 --> 00:15:42,375
so I'm like the guy
building a cathedral,

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00:15:42,409 --> 00:15:45,578
who have-- knows that he's
gonna be putting this brick on,

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00:15:45,612 --> 00:15:46,746
this brick on,
and this brick on,

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00:15:46,779 --> 00:15:48,448
and he's gonna be spending
his whole career

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00:15:48,481 --> 00:15:49,549
putting bricks together,

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00:15:49,582 --> 00:15:51,418
but he'll never see
the end piece, the cathedral,

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00:15:51,451 --> 00:15:53,353
that will take hundreds
of years to build.

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00:16:03,630 --> 00:16:07,067
[man speaking English]

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00:18:25,538 --> 00:18:29,142
My name is Evgeny Velikov,

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00:18:29,176 --> 00:18:35,282
and now my main position
is honorary something.

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00:19:06,613 --> 00:19:09,449
[journalists shouting]

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00:19:09,482 --> 00:19:11,651
[news reporter]
Are you optimistic,
Mister President.

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00:19:11,684 --> 00:19:13,486
I'm always optimistic.

245
00:19:37,410 --> 00:19:40,647
[ticking]

246
00:19:45,585 --> 00:19:48,421
[Henderson] I was gonna ask,
do you want me to explain
the gyrotron real quick?

247
00:19:48,455 --> 00:19:50,590
Yeah, I can do it very quickly
and really cool.

248
00:19:53,460 --> 00:19:54,927
If you take--
I don't have a Coke bottle--

249
00:19:54,961 --> 00:19:56,963
if you take a Coke bottle
and you blow across

250
00:19:56,996 --> 00:19:58,565
the top of the Coke bottle...

251
00:19:58,598 --> 00:20:01,301
Do you mind-- Can you get me
a Coke bottle downstairs?

252
00:20:01,334 --> 00:20:03,403
It's down over there.

253
00:20:03,436 --> 00:20:06,339
I have four minutes, no?
How much? Yes, four minutes.

254
00:20:06,373 --> 00:20:08,475
Four minutes?
Is that okay? It's downstairs.

255
00:20:08,508 --> 00:20:10,543
-Do you know where
the coffee machine is?
-Yes.

256
00:20:10,577 --> 00:20:12,712
The gyrotron works pretty much
like a Coke bottle.

257
00:20:12,745 --> 00:20:15,248
Except instead of blowing across
the top of the Coke bottle

258
00:20:15,282 --> 00:20:16,449
and changing the resonance,

259
00:20:16,483 --> 00:20:19,986
uh, it-it-- you-you do
a electron beam.

260
00:20:20,019 --> 00:20:23,290
You have basically a little...

261
00:20:23,323 --> 00:20:25,024
filament down here,
like in a light bulb.

262
00:20:25,057 --> 00:20:26,359
It heats up,

263
00:20:26,393 --> 00:20:29,296
and this beam of electrons
comes up,

264
00:20:29,329 --> 00:20:30,763
and you get a resonance.

265
00:20:34,901 --> 00:20:38,004
So just as you take
your Coke bottle, you blow
across the top of it,

266
00:20:38,037 --> 00:20:40,873
and the wind is creating
a compression wave

267
00:20:40,907 --> 00:20:44,444
and making a resonance,
making the sound go up higher,

268
00:20:44,477 --> 00:20:47,280
this thing is passing
an electron beam,

269
00:20:47,314 --> 00:20:48,881
and it creates
an electromagnetic resonance.

270
00:20:48,915 --> 00:20:52,552
You can almost imagine it like
a bunch of little laser beams,

271
00:20:52,585 --> 00:20:57,390
that you combine them
into a single coherent beam,

272
00:20:57,424 --> 00:20:58,825
which is the gyrotron beam.

273
00:21:00,393 --> 00:21:03,730
And then once
this ignites the plasma,

274
00:21:03,763 --> 00:21:06,599
the plasma itself heats it
and keeps going.

275
00:21:13,072 --> 00:21:14,574
That makes sense, kind of.

276
00:21:16,576 --> 00:21:19,512
Oh, no, doesn't it have to be
a glass one? Oh, man!

277
00:21:19,546 --> 00:21:21,481
-Well--
-We lose the analogy.

278
00:21:21,514 --> 00:21:23,015
What do you do with the can?

279
00:21:23,049 --> 00:21:25,385
-No, not a can.
-A bottle, a bottle.

280
00:21:25,418 --> 00:21:26,553
Oh, you wanted a bottle?

281
00:21:26,586 --> 00:21:29,389
Yeah, because you can blow
across the top of the bottle

282
00:21:29,422 --> 00:21:30,490
to make it resonate.

283
00:21:30,523 --> 00:21:32,959
And you call yourself
a physicist.

284
00:21:32,992 --> 00:21:37,397
[overlapping conversation]

285
00:21:42,369 --> 00:21:45,938
[Ken Blackler]
The greatest challenge
is to align these huge pieces

286
00:21:45,972 --> 00:21:49,509
to the millimeter tolerance,
to the accuracy that we need.

287
00:21:49,542 --> 00:21:50,610
It's really the magnets,

288
00:21:50,643 --> 00:21:53,346
the-the-- what we call
the toroidal field magnets.

289
00:21:54,581 --> 00:21:57,417
These magnets make the main
magnetic field of ITER.

290
00:21:57,450 --> 00:21:59,686
They're the things that hold
this magnetic bottle,

291
00:21:59,719 --> 00:22:01,888
hold the plasma
inside the machine,

292
00:22:01,921 --> 00:22:02,989
and keep it away
from the walls.

293
00:22:03,022 --> 00:22:06,092
And the accuracy that
we can install these magnets

294
00:22:06,125 --> 00:22:08,928
really is how smooth
the plasma will be

295
00:22:08,961 --> 00:22:10,363
and therefore
how well it performs.

296
00:22:10,397 --> 00:22:12,399
So the better we do
and the closer we get

297
00:22:12,432 --> 00:22:14,967
to the required position
for these magnets

298
00:22:15,001 --> 00:22:16,836
will really affect, for decades,

299
00:22:16,869 --> 00:22:18,137
the future performance of ITER.

300
00:22:18,170 --> 00:22:19,639
So that's a great challenge
for us.

301
00:22:39,191 --> 00:22:42,795
[speaking English]

302
00:23:20,867 --> 00:23:22,969
[machine whirring]

303
00:23:24,537 --> 00:23:26,906
[speaking Italian]

304
00:23:30,176 --> 00:23:31,811
[speaking Italian]

305
00:23:50,830 --> 00:23:54,000
Well, you need some area,
of course, to absorb...

306
00:23:54,033 --> 00:23:55,968
-Yeah, yeah.
-the excess material.

307
00:23:58,070 --> 00:23:59,706
[chuckles]

308
00:24:04,911 --> 00:24:07,547
[indistinct chatter]

309
00:24:26,065 --> 00:24:27,099
For sure.

310
00:24:27,133 --> 00:24:28,835
You cannot avoid that.

311
00:24:35,207 --> 00:24:37,810
I'm curing them.
I'm curing with my hand.

312
00:24:37,844 --> 00:24:39,879
Ahhh!

313
00:24:42,815 --> 00:24:43,750
[speaking Italian]

314
00:24:43,783 --> 00:24:46,285
It is not a work
for emotionally weak people,

315
00:24:46,318 --> 00:24:48,287
because you need
to be very strong and confident

316
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,223
because otherwise...
you will never do anything.

317
00:24:51,257 --> 00:24:52,959
You'll just be so scared.

318
00:25:00,733 --> 00:25:03,570
[Sabina Griffith]
Although ITER is called

319
00:25:03,603 --> 00:25:05,738
the largest
scientific enterprise,

320
00:25:05,772 --> 00:25:09,008
international collaboration
on Earth at the moment,

321
00:25:09,041 --> 00:25:10,209
nobody knows about us.

322
00:25:10,242 --> 00:25:12,745
ITER is, um...

323
00:25:12,779 --> 00:25:14,213
is working with public money,

324
00:25:14,246 --> 00:25:17,617
so the whole project
is jointly funded

325
00:25:17,650 --> 00:25:19,619
by all these nations
under the ITER roof,

326
00:25:19,652 --> 00:25:22,722
and so, in fact
it's the taxpayer

327
00:25:22,755 --> 00:25:24,256
who pays for what we do, right?

328
00:25:24,290 --> 00:25:27,059
So this is not
a private organization

329
00:25:27,093 --> 00:25:28,294
or a private enterprise.

330
00:25:28,327 --> 00:25:31,564
This is one of our top
benchmarks,

331
00:25:31,598 --> 00:25:33,766
that we develop this project

332
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,837
and this fusion reactor
for the benefit of everything.

333
00:25:37,870 --> 00:25:41,173
And we want everybody to share
and to join in

334
00:25:41,207 --> 00:25:43,309
and to be proud of this, right?

335
00:25:43,342 --> 00:25:49,716
So transparency and having
an open-door policy

336
00:25:49,749 --> 00:25:53,119
is one of our top priorities
in ITER communications.

337
00:25:55,187 --> 00:25:57,624
[Henderson] A lot of people talk
about a magnetic model,

338
00:25:57,657 --> 00:25:59,726
and I don't feel
there's a good understanding

339
00:25:59,759 --> 00:26:01,794
of how the magnetic field ties

340
00:26:01,828 --> 00:26:04,030
-with this idea
of trapping a particle.
-Mm-hmm.

341
00:26:04,063 --> 00:26:06,032
And then I want to go
into the challenge of ITER.

342
00:26:06,065 --> 00:26:09,068
The question is, well, how come
we're taking a long time?

343
00:26:09,101 --> 00:26:10,870
They made a study back in 1976

344
00:26:10,903 --> 00:26:13,740
that showed that depending
upon how you fund fusion,

345
00:26:13,773 --> 00:26:16,375
you can either get
a fusion device

346
00:26:16,408 --> 00:26:19,178
generating electricity
somewhere in the 1990s

347
00:26:19,211 --> 00:26:22,982
out to 2006 all depending upon
how much money you put in

348
00:26:23,015 --> 00:26:24,651
as a functional time.

349
00:26:24,684 --> 00:26:26,619
And then I'm going
to overlay this

350
00:26:26,653 --> 00:26:29,255
as what the US
has actually been funding.

351
00:26:29,288 --> 00:26:30,690
And the funding has gone up.

352
00:26:30,723 --> 00:26:32,859
It peaked around 1978

353
00:26:32,892 --> 00:26:36,963
and then has dropped well below,
based on today's dollars.

354
00:26:37,964 --> 00:26:39,165
It's very understandable,
very honest,

355
00:26:39,198 --> 00:26:42,969
but I won't do this because
we have the US here on Monday,

356
00:26:43,002 --> 00:26:44,971
uh, physically, and...
[clears throat]

357
00:26:45,004 --> 00:26:46,038
it's a very touchy thing
in the US.

358
00:26:46,072 --> 00:26:49,241
Because here you're picking out
the US from the--

359
00:26:49,275 --> 00:26:50,309
We have to be careful
we don't,

360
00:26:50,342 --> 00:26:53,379
in official presentation,
want to criticize, right?

361
00:26:53,412 --> 00:26:56,816
We can say it's difficult.
Right?

362
00:26:56,849 --> 00:27:00,319
Because, um, in the 70s,
the funding was wow.

363
00:27:00,352 --> 00:27:02,722
Everybody wanted fusion
to happen now.

364
00:27:02,755 --> 00:27:04,991
-Then everything
dropped again. Right?
-Poof! Yeah.

365
00:27:05,024 --> 00:27:07,359
We survived. We managed
to survive, and we're here now

366
00:27:07,393 --> 00:27:10,029
building the world's
largest fusion device.

367
00:27:10,062 --> 00:27:12,765
But it's hard,
and it only happens,

368
00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:16,268
and we say we can deliver, uh,

369
00:27:16,302 --> 00:27:18,838
around the mid
of the century...

370
00:27:18,871 --> 00:27:21,874
provided that we have
somebody sort of...

371
00:27:21,908 --> 00:27:24,110
-Funding us in the back.
-... funding us
in the back. Right?

372
00:27:24,143 --> 00:27:26,178
[brass band music playing]

373
00:27:48,134 --> 00:27:51,103
[Henderson] And so to me,
before we basically die

374
00:27:51,137 --> 00:27:53,973
in our excrement
like yeast molecules,

375
00:27:54,006 --> 00:27:57,076
we need to realize that
we need another energy source.

376
00:27:57,109 --> 00:27:59,445
We need to be-- It may not be
for our generation.

377
00:27:59,478 --> 00:28:01,914
I mean, the good news is
we're, we're okay.

378
00:28:01,948 --> 00:28:04,383
But it's the next generation
or the generation after that

379
00:28:04,416 --> 00:28:05,517
or the generation after that.

380
00:28:05,551 --> 00:28:08,454
Yeah, I'm actually surprised
how low the funding is.

381
00:28:08,487 --> 00:28:11,791
Would you be able to have, er...

382
00:28:11,824 --> 00:28:15,728
better progress, faster progress
if you had better funding?

383
00:28:15,762 --> 00:28:17,797
I think so. There was
a study made in one country--

384
00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:19,398
I'm not gonna name
the country--

385
00:28:19,431 --> 00:28:20,900
back in the 70s.

386
00:28:20,933 --> 00:28:24,737
And they said if you keep
the level of the order

387
00:28:24,771 --> 00:28:26,338
of, let's say,
I think it was about

388
00:28:26,372 --> 00:28:29,008
800 million euros per year,

389
00:28:29,041 --> 00:28:33,179
you would be able to achieve
an ITER-like machine,

390
00:28:33,212 --> 00:28:35,214
uh, within about 20 years.

391
00:28:35,247 --> 00:28:37,884
Then if you drop it down
to about 500 million,

392
00:28:37,917 --> 00:28:40,486
it would be extended out
to about 30 years.

393
00:28:40,519 --> 00:28:42,488
And there is a point
of no return,

394
00:28:42,521 --> 00:28:46,192
where basically if you invested
300 million euros

395
00:28:46,225 --> 00:28:47,159
on a year-to-year basis,

396
00:28:47,193 --> 00:28:50,096
you would actually--
it would take infinity

397
00:28:50,129 --> 00:28:51,397
to achieve a reactor.

398
00:28:51,430 --> 00:28:55,134
Because there you had to keep
the supporting technology base,

399
00:28:55,167 --> 00:28:57,169
the administrative funds.

400
00:28:57,203 --> 00:29:01,140
If you go below 300 million,
you'll never get fusion.

401
00:29:01,173 --> 00:29:02,508
Well...

402
00:29:02,541 --> 00:29:04,043
that country has never invested

403
00:29:04,076 --> 00:29:06,078
more than something like
200 million euros.

404
00:29:06,112 --> 00:29:09,015
The more money you put into it,
the faster the return.

405
00:29:09,048 --> 00:29:11,550
And-And we really
have been putting in peanuts.

406
00:29:11,583 --> 00:29:15,922
[Mark Uhran]
I don't think there's
a broad public acceptance

407
00:29:15,955 --> 00:29:19,558
of hydrogen fusion in
the United States at this stage.

408
00:29:19,591 --> 00:29:24,330
Uh, people back in the US
still in general

409
00:29:24,363 --> 00:29:25,865
don't understand
the differences

410
00:29:25,898 --> 00:29:28,400
between uranium fission,

411
00:29:28,434 --> 00:29:32,338
which is the process that's been
used in nuclear power plants

412
00:29:32,371 --> 00:29:34,240
for over 40 years now,

413
00:29:34,273 --> 00:29:36,275
and hydrogen fusion,

414
00:29:36,308 --> 00:29:39,311
uh, which is believe is
the process of the future.

415
00:29:39,345 --> 00:29:43,015
You have to keep in mind
a couple of things, you know.

416
00:29:43,049 --> 00:29:46,552
First, this is one of the
grand challenges of engineering.

417
00:29:46,585 --> 00:29:51,023
And solving a grand challenge
on a fixed price

418
00:29:51,057 --> 00:29:54,326
is, is a challenge
in and of itself.

419
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,262
Now, by the same token,

420
00:29:56,295 --> 00:30:00,867
you have to be very cost
and schedule conscience--
conscious,

421
00:30:00,900 --> 00:30:04,003
because the sponsors
of this project have to,

422
00:30:04,036 --> 00:30:06,572
you know, continue to maintain
their sponsorship

423
00:30:06,605 --> 00:30:08,908
and believe strongly

424
00:30:08,941 --> 00:30:11,043
that the cost is worth
the investment.

425
00:30:15,414 --> 00:30:18,550
[Eric Lerner] I actually
got interested in fusion
as a child.

426
00:30:18,584 --> 00:30:22,021
Uh, my mom, when I was eight,

427
00:30:22,054 --> 00:30:24,590
got me what I think was
my first science book,

428
00:30:24,623 --> 00:30:26,558
which was about the sun.

429
00:30:26,592 --> 00:30:29,328
And I still remember vividly
this illustration

430
00:30:29,361 --> 00:30:34,200
of this hundreds of millions
of miles long coal train

431
00:30:34,233 --> 00:30:38,871
delivering all the coal
that equaled the energy

432
00:30:38,905 --> 00:30:42,474
that the sun's fusion created
in a single second.

433
00:30:42,508 --> 00:30:44,877
By the time I graduated,

434
00:30:44,911 --> 00:30:47,079
I actually didn't intend
to go into fusion

435
00:30:47,113 --> 00:30:52,218
because this was the high point
of the enthusiasm

436
00:30:52,251 --> 00:30:54,020
about the tokamak device,

437
00:30:54,053 --> 00:30:58,157
which is still the most
funded device in fusion.

438
00:30:58,190 --> 00:31:00,927
And I thought, "Well,
I guess this is solved,"

439
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,062
and I got interested instead

440
00:31:03,095 --> 00:31:05,164
in astrophysics
and other things.

441
00:31:06,232 --> 00:31:08,634
But, um...

442
00:31:08,667 --> 00:31:10,937
pretty soon
it became clear, nope,

443
00:31:10,970 --> 00:31:12,404
it wasn't solved.

444
00:31:17,009 --> 00:31:20,412
The first error that was made
by the government programs

445
00:31:20,446 --> 00:31:22,614
back in the 1970s

446
00:31:22,648 --> 00:31:26,585
was to put all their eggs
in the tokamak basket.

447
00:31:26,618 --> 00:31:29,321
Now, 40 years later,

448
00:31:29,355 --> 00:31:34,093
people would have to say,
objectively we do not know

449
00:31:34,126 --> 00:31:39,098
which route will lead
to practical fusion,

450
00:31:39,131 --> 00:31:41,934
and we certainly don't know
which route will lead

451
00:31:41,968 --> 00:31:44,270
to the most economical fusion.

452
00:31:44,303 --> 00:31:49,375
What you have to do is take
a crash program approach,

453
00:31:49,408 --> 00:31:51,043
a broad-based approach

454
00:31:51,077 --> 00:31:54,180
in which, if there are
20 good ideas out there--

455
00:31:54,213 --> 00:31:56,615
and by good ideas,
I don't mean ideas

456
00:31:56,648 --> 00:31:58,717
that I think will work.

457
00:31:58,750 --> 00:32:02,454
I mean ideas that
I can't prove won't work.

458
00:32:02,488 --> 00:32:06,392
This is an important
vital question for humanity:

459
00:32:06,425 --> 00:32:10,229
What is an energy source
that can replace fossil fuels,

460
00:32:10,262 --> 00:32:14,666
that can be safe,
clean, unlimited,

461
00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:17,036
and more economical,

462
00:32:17,069 --> 00:32:19,338
cheaper than anything
we have today?

463
00:32:23,775 --> 00:32:25,511
[Laberge]
I used to live on Bowen Island,

464
00:32:25,544 --> 00:32:26,712
so the commute was great.

465
00:32:26,745 --> 00:32:28,214
So I could get on my bike

466
00:32:28,247 --> 00:32:30,349
and it was, like,
a 10 minute bike to the garage.

467
00:32:32,551 --> 00:32:35,521
The part will arrive, and I
would assemble all the parts,

468
00:32:35,554 --> 00:32:38,090
and I will actually do
all the experiments myself.

469
00:32:38,124 --> 00:32:40,726
There is only one guy here.
It's a one-guy show.

470
00:32:40,759 --> 00:32:43,195
So that was actually quite fun.
I enjoyed that.

471
00:32:44,330 --> 00:32:46,098
And then I would build
this machinery,

472
00:32:46,132 --> 00:32:49,068
and then I will fire it up, and
then I would get bad result,

473
00:32:49,101 --> 00:32:50,202
which is most of the time
you get that.

474
00:32:50,236 --> 00:32:52,604
And then I will tweak it
and adjust with a little click

475
00:32:52,638 --> 00:32:53,939
and some transfer somewhere.

476
00:32:53,972 --> 00:32:56,742
And then I started
to get some neutron
coming out of this thing.

477
00:32:56,775 --> 00:32:59,245
So I was very excited
about my neutrons.

478
00:33:00,146 --> 00:33:02,281
Then, eventually,
I went out

479
00:33:02,314 --> 00:33:04,250
and tried to raise
more money with that thing.

480
00:33:08,820 --> 00:33:11,190
The company got bigger
and more successful,

481
00:33:11,223 --> 00:33:13,992
but the fun went
downhill since then.

482
00:33:28,340 --> 00:33:30,576
Now, after my PhD, sadly,
I did not manage

483
00:33:30,609 --> 00:33:32,178
to find a job in fusion.

484
00:33:32,211 --> 00:33:35,281
So I got a job at a local
company doing laser printer,

485
00:33:35,314 --> 00:33:37,116
because I was kind of good
with lasers.

486
00:33:37,149 --> 00:33:39,651
Turns out that
what I was trying to do

487
00:33:39,685 --> 00:33:43,055
was trying to make
printing so cheap that
we could cut the forest

488
00:33:43,089 --> 00:33:45,324
and jam you with junk mail,
you know.

489
00:33:45,357 --> 00:33:47,126
So that was not
very satisfactory.

490
00:33:47,159 --> 00:33:49,695
And I was looking at the
energy situation on the planet,

491
00:33:49,728 --> 00:33:50,996
and it was pretty bad.

492
00:33:51,029 --> 00:33:54,133
I think we're going
100 miles an hour
towards a brick wall,

493
00:33:54,166 --> 00:33:56,335
and nobody seems to be paying
much attention, you know.

494
00:33:56,368 --> 00:33:59,405
And it was actually
on my birthday,
the 40-years-old birthday,

495
00:33:59,438 --> 00:34:02,174
and I decided I had
a terrible midlife crisis,

496
00:34:02,208 --> 00:34:04,310
and I say, okay,
I-I-I will change.

497
00:34:04,343 --> 00:34:07,446
I will not do this job anymore,
and I will do fusion.

498
00:34:07,479 --> 00:34:10,382
In the center of the machine,
there's a big sphere

499
00:34:10,416 --> 00:34:12,418
and in that sphere,
there is liquid metal.

500
00:34:12,451 --> 00:34:14,653
Now the liquid metal is pumped
by some pumps

501
00:34:14,686 --> 00:34:16,088
in those pipes over there,

502
00:34:16,122 --> 00:34:17,256
and it's made up to swirl.

503
00:34:17,289 --> 00:34:20,526
So the-the liquid is injected
near the edge like this,

504
00:34:20,559 --> 00:34:21,693
and it swirls around.

505
00:34:21,727 --> 00:34:23,795
And because it swirls around,
it appear in the center,

506
00:34:23,829 --> 00:34:26,465
like a centrifugal force
keep the liquid out

507
00:34:26,498 --> 00:34:29,201
and near the center--
up near the center of the thing.

508
00:34:29,235 --> 00:34:31,737
So we fire those 14 pistons
all at the same time,

509
00:34:31,770 --> 00:34:33,172
and they're quite
well-synchronized.

510
00:34:33,205 --> 00:34:37,109
It's gonna go clonk,
clonk, clonk!

511
00:34:37,143 --> 00:34:39,711
And then the acoustic waves
squash the liquid,

512
00:34:39,745 --> 00:34:42,281
and it collapse the vortex
over the plasma.

513
00:34:42,314 --> 00:34:44,583
And the plasma, when you
compress it, will get hotter.

514
00:34:44,616 --> 00:34:47,719
And hopefully we will hit
150 million degrees C,

515
00:34:47,753 --> 00:34:48,887
which is the temperature
required

516
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:50,722
to make the nucleus to fuse.

517
00:34:50,756 --> 00:34:52,391
It's piston, and it's rings.

518
00:34:52,424 --> 00:34:55,527
It's, uh, it's metal and pipes.
It's plumbing.

519
00:34:55,561 --> 00:34:58,264
Turning that into a power plant
will actually be

520
00:34:58,297 --> 00:35:00,466
not that complicated.

521
00:35:00,499 --> 00:35:02,534
I have, I have a saying here
at General Fusion

522
00:35:02,568 --> 00:35:05,871
I told all my engineer, "If you
can't find it at Home Depot,

523
00:35:05,904 --> 00:35:07,739
it doesn't go in the machine."

524
00:35:07,773 --> 00:35:09,608
So the tokamak
and the laser fusion have

525
00:35:09,641 --> 00:35:11,477
more chance of working
than what we do here,

526
00:35:11,510 --> 00:35:14,580
because the physics
of compressing the plasma

527
00:35:14,613 --> 00:35:16,348
with a magnetic field is new.

528
00:35:16,382 --> 00:35:18,817
However, their chance
of turning out a power plant

529
00:35:18,850 --> 00:35:20,886
that's cost effective is low,

530
00:35:20,919 --> 00:35:23,555
because their machine
is so complicated.

531
00:35:23,589 --> 00:35:26,225
I-I'm quite confident that
we can make this work,

532
00:35:26,258 --> 00:35:27,659
and I'm a little concerned

533
00:35:27,693 --> 00:35:30,662
that we might run out of money
before we make it work.

534
00:36:13,372 --> 00:36:14,773
[Janeschitz] We have
everywhere problems.

535
00:36:14,806 --> 00:36:17,909
We have had problems
in the TF coils,

536
00:36:17,943 --> 00:36:19,878
uh, and it was solved.

537
00:36:19,911 --> 00:36:22,448
Uh, we-we could go
into the envelope

538
00:36:22,481 --> 00:36:24,683
with the help of Japan,
Europe, and so on.

539
00:36:24,716 --> 00:36:27,219
So, many things we could bring

540
00:36:27,253 --> 00:36:29,288
into a reasonable envelope
of schedule,

541
00:36:29,321 --> 00:36:31,257
but we cannot make miracles.

542
00:36:31,290 --> 00:36:34,293
Time lost is lost.
I cannot recover.

543
00:36:34,326 --> 00:36:36,428
It can only be better
from now on.

544
00:36:36,462 --> 00:36:38,630
[man] The problem that
I don't understand is

545
00:36:38,664 --> 00:36:40,832
how are you gonna get there
10 years from now?

546
00:36:40,866 --> 00:36:42,401
'Cause we heard this morning

547
00:36:42,434 --> 00:36:44,470
there's a problem
with the vacuum vessel,

548
00:36:44,503 --> 00:36:47,005
tooling issues,
all kind of things.

549
00:36:47,038 --> 00:36:50,542
I don't see what the plan is.

550
00:36:50,576 --> 00:36:53,245
But I thought you have
a much better plan,

551
00:36:53,279 --> 00:36:55,447
uh, when it comes
to the technologies,

552
00:36:55,481 --> 00:36:57,449
engineering the solutions.

553
00:36:58,350 --> 00:37:00,018
Whatever that is,
I mean, convince us

554
00:37:00,051 --> 00:37:02,521
that I think we can get there
within 10 years.

555
00:37:02,554 --> 00:37:04,956
This morning
when I asked the DG,

556
00:37:04,990 --> 00:37:08,294
what was the failure
of this whole problem was,

557
00:37:08,327 --> 00:37:09,861
and wasting 10 years,

558
00:37:09,895 --> 00:37:11,397
he said he was a manager.

559
00:37:11,430 --> 00:37:12,931
Right?

560
00:37:12,964 --> 00:37:15,301
Is there any change?
Doing anything?

561
00:38:17,429 --> 00:38:19,565
[woman] There's a lot
depending on ITER, right?

562
00:38:19,598 --> 00:38:24,603
So the whole fusion research
going on all around the world,

563
00:38:24,636 --> 00:38:27,939
whether it's in China,
in Europe, in the US,

564
00:38:27,973 --> 00:38:29,341
they all depend on ITER.

565
00:38:29,375 --> 00:38:31,643
So if ITER is closed down,

566
00:38:31,677 --> 00:38:34,346
a lot of people will
not only lose their jobs,

567
00:38:34,380 --> 00:38:38,617
but, um, fusion will be dead

568
00:38:38,650 --> 00:38:40,686
forever or at least
for a very, very long time.

569
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,655
Nobody will ever bet on fusion
for a long time.

570
00:39:02,941 --> 00:39:06,745
So this is our facility where--

571
00:39:08,013 --> 00:39:13,351
you know, storage facility,
which is actually quite cheap.

572
00:39:14,085 --> 00:39:15,721
The key thing is,

573
00:39:15,754 --> 00:39:18,457
more money has to go
into fusion research.

574
00:39:18,490 --> 00:39:21,159
It has to go
for many other devices,

575
00:39:21,192 --> 00:39:23,562
obviously including our own.

576
00:39:27,833 --> 00:39:31,169
We and our neighbors are
shielded against the neutrons

577
00:39:31,202 --> 00:39:33,472
by three feet of concrete.

578
00:39:33,505 --> 00:39:36,942
It's also shielded
by this copper mesh

579
00:39:36,975 --> 00:39:39,978
that radio waves
can't get through.

580
00:39:40,011 --> 00:39:43,682
Now, the main bang trigger
is basically a big switch.

581
00:39:43,715 --> 00:39:47,886
When we're at full power,
all 12 will be hooked up.

582
00:39:47,919 --> 00:39:51,523
These instruments are actually
our thermometer.

583
00:39:51,557 --> 00:39:53,825
If you wonder
how can you measure

584
00:39:53,859 --> 00:39:57,496
one or two billion degrees,
this is it.

585
00:39:57,529 --> 00:40:00,499
Maybe there's some way
you could tape this so that

586
00:40:00,532 --> 00:40:02,668
-it's out of the line of sight.
-Okay.

587
00:40:02,701 --> 00:40:06,605
Even though we're
a very tiny group,

588
00:40:06,638 --> 00:40:09,541
science is
a collaborative effort,

589
00:40:09,575 --> 00:40:13,078
and we're collaborating through
the scientific literature

590
00:40:13,111 --> 00:40:14,913
with people
all around the world.

591
00:40:18,149 --> 00:40:20,151
-Hey!
-Oh, sorry.

592
00:40:20,185 --> 00:40:22,821
-You're on camera.
-[laughing]

593
00:40:22,854 --> 00:40:25,023
This is an important member
of the team.

594
00:40:25,056 --> 00:40:27,859
This is Tom,
who's the landlord here.

595
00:40:27,893 --> 00:40:29,427
Hey, guys.

596
00:40:30,762 --> 00:40:33,131
[Lerner] People ask,
"How can you succeed

597
00:40:33,164 --> 00:40:35,801
with so few resources?"

598
00:40:35,834 --> 00:40:38,637
You know, are you saying
you're a thousand times smarter?

599
00:40:38,670 --> 00:40:39,805
No.

600
00:40:39,838 --> 00:40:42,040
We're saying we've got
an easier route.

601
00:40:43,709 --> 00:40:44,976
A plasma,

602
00:40:45,010 --> 00:40:48,480
which is what most
of the universe consists of,

603
00:40:48,514 --> 00:40:51,216
is electrically
conducting matter,

604
00:40:51,249 --> 00:40:54,853
matter in which the electrons
are stripped away

605
00:40:54,886 --> 00:40:57,823
from the atoms and can
freely move about.

606
00:40:57,856 --> 00:41:00,826
What we today call
the "pinch effect"

607
00:41:00,859 --> 00:41:06,131
forms instabilities
within the plasma,

608
00:41:06,164 --> 00:41:07,799
basically pinching the plasma

609
00:41:07,833 --> 00:41:11,236
into a lot
of filamentary structures.

610
00:41:11,269 --> 00:41:17,843
The conventional attitude
towards the instabilities

611
00:41:17,876 --> 00:41:19,044
is to suppress them.

612
00:41:19,077 --> 00:41:23,481
As we put it, to make the plasma
sit still like a good dog.

613
00:41:24,783 --> 00:41:26,985
The problem with that is
the plasma doesn't want

614
00:41:27,018 --> 00:41:28,053
to sit still.

615
00:41:28,086 --> 00:41:32,123
And trying to confine
the plasma for long enough

616
00:41:32,157 --> 00:41:34,793
for the fusion reactions
to take place

617
00:41:34,826 --> 00:41:38,129
becomes sort of like
confining a can of worms

618
00:41:38,163 --> 00:41:39,698
without the can.

619
00:41:40,732 --> 00:41:44,836
What we do is
to imitate nature.

620
00:41:44,870 --> 00:41:50,676
In nature, on a scale
of... solar flares,

621
00:41:50,709 --> 00:41:53,745
quasars, entire galaxies,

622
00:41:53,779 --> 00:41:57,849
these filaments organize
and structure the universe.

623
00:41:57,883 --> 00:41:59,551
[Lerner]
What's your trigger pressure?

624
00:42:00,351 --> 00:42:02,053
It's 12.36.

625
00:42:04,322 --> 00:42:06,625
So when the machine fires,

626
00:42:07,258 --> 00:42:10,028
we get a ion beam

627
00:42:10,061 --> 00:42:12,063
that goes down this drift tube.

628
00:42:13,632 --> 00:42:15,567
Once the machine fires,

629
00:42:15,601 --> 00:42:17,736
then it's the job
of all our instruments

630
00:42:17,769 --> 00:42:19,771
to find out
what actually happened.

631
00:42:19,805 --> 00:42:21,539
Everybody ready?

632
00:42:22,207 --> 00:42:24,810
Power on. Charging.

633
00:42:26,678 --> 00:42:29,881
So what we do
in the plasma focus

634
00:42:29,915 --> 00:42:32,784
is we don't try and fight
these instabilities,

635
00:42:32,818 --> 00:42:36,054
we try to use them
to compress the plasma

636
00:42:36,087 --> 00:42:37,088
and to confine them.

637
00:42:38,356 --> 00:42:39,825
Twenty...

638
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:43,729
thirty.

639
00:42:44,362 --> 00:42:46,097
Set. Fire.

640
00:42:48,299 --> 00:42:51,202
That means the device
can be much smaller.

641
00:42:51,236 --> 00:42:53,905
The energy can be
much more concentrated,

642
00:42:53,939 --> 00:42:56,174
and that makes the device
much cheaper.

643
00:42:57,709 --> 00:42:59,711
Now, that was a free fire.

644
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:03,114
Didn't you hear that?

645
00:43:06,985 --> 00:43:08,887
I just want to make sure
it's not self-firing.

646
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,356
There was a slight
ticking noise in there

647
00:43:11,389 --> 00:43:12,991
I couldn't identify.

648
00:43:15,193 --> 00:43:16,962
The scope still set?

649
00:43:16,995 --> 00:43:18,596
They're dry.

650
00:43:19,865 --> 00:43:21,132
Power on.

651
00:43:21,166 --> 00:43:24,002
[machine whirring]

652
00:43:24,035 --> 00:43:25,136
Charging.

653
00:43:28,974 --> 00:43:30,208
Ten...

654
00:43:33,144 --> 00:43:34,212
twenty...

655
00:43:35,413 --> 00:43:36,815
thirty.

656
00:43:37,448 --> 00:43:39,217
Set. Fire.

657
00:43:39,250 --> 00:43:40,819
-[ticking]
-Nope.

658
00:43:40,852 --> 00:43:45,390
We know of no reason why this is
physically impossible.

659
00:43:45,423 --> 00:43:48,860
And more, no one has told us

660
00:43:48,894 --> 00:43:52,397
a reason why they think
this is physically impossible.

661
00:43:52,430 --> 00:43:54,900
And this project is
a very public project.

662
00:43:54,933 --> 00:43:57,936
We've published
in peer-reviewed papers...

663
00:43:59,070 --> 00:44:03,742
that are among the leading
journals in our field.

664
00:44:03,775 --> 00:44:05,744
We've gotten a lot
of press coverage.

665
00:44:05,777 --> 00:44:09,280
People have a lot of opportunity
to take potshots at us.

666
00:44:09,314 --> 00:44:12,417
Some people say
this is a long shot,

667
00:44:12,450 --> 00:44:14,753
this is way out.

668
00:44:14,786 --> 00:44:18,890
Well, ultimately, they're just
expressing their feeling.

669
00:44:18,924 --> 00:44:23,695
I do say that compared
with all the other...

670
00:44:25,163 --> 00:44:26,765
private fusion efforts...

671
00:44:26,798 --> 00:44:30,068
our results at present
are the best.

672
00:44:32,103 --> 00:44:35,941
So, here-here-- Tom just became
our latest shareholder.

673
00:44:36,775 --> 00:44:39,077
-Yeah.
-[laughter]

674
00:44:42,981 --> 00:44:44,783
Okay...

675
00:44:56,361 --> 00:45:00,065
[Bernard Bigot]
It's my pleasure
to welcome all of you.

676
00:45:00,098 --> 00:45:01,800
I introduce myself.

677
00:45:01,833 --> 00:45:05,937
I'm the director-general
of the ITER organization.

678
00:45:05,971 --> 00:45:08,807
It is really my honor
and pleasure

679
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:13,879
to address you here today
in this role.

680
00:45:13,912 --> 00:45:19,150
This little project as you know
is a very promising project,

681
00:45:20,886 --> 00:45:25,023
which now gathers
seven large parties.

682
00:45:25,857 --> 00:45:27,525
All of them as you know,

683
00:45:27,558 --> 00:45:30,161
they're representing
over 85 percent

684
00:45:30,195 --> 00:45:33,765
of the gross national product
in the world,

685
00:45:33,799 --> 00:45:36,001
and all of them are very keen
to understand

686
00:45:36,034 --> 00:45:40,505
how they will get their
energy supply in the long term.

687
00:45:40,538 --> 00:45:44,175
All of you know that
there is renewable energies,

688
00:45:44,209 --> 00:45:48,513
and we are very keen to see
these renewable energies

689
00:45:48,546 --> 00:45:50,982
to move on, to progress.

690
00:45:52,083 --> 00:45:55,520
But for the time being,
it is clear

691
00:45:55,553 --> 00:45:57,522
that it will not be able

692
00:45:57,555 --> 00:46:00,391
to fulfill the expectations
of the world.

693
00:46:00,425 --> 00:46:02,193
-[phone ringing]
-Oh, sorry.

694
00:46:03,895 --> 00:46:06,097
I will-- I will say stop.

695
00:46:07,332 --> 00:46:08,766
Hello?

696
00:46:10,101 --> 00:46:12,303
[speaking French]

697
00:46:24,549 --> 00:46:26,017
Sorry.

698
00:46:26,051 --> 00:46:28,286
We are always
interconnected, so...

699
00:46:28,319 --> 00:46:33,024
As you know, renewable energy
is good for...

700
00:46:33,058 --> 00:46:34,960
[woman] I think
we all have great respect

701
00:46:34,993 --> 00:46:36,561
for what he's trying
to do here,

702
00:46:36,594 --> 00:46:37,628
what he has to do.

703
00:46:37,662 --> 00:46:40,298
We are all standing behind him,
to help him to...

704
00:46:41,532 --> 00:46:43,501
to get the big puzzle together.

705
00:46:43,534 --> 00:46:45,103
It's different, right?

706
00:46:45,136 --> 00:46:48,173
I mean, the first two
director-generals were Japanese

707
00:46:48,206 --> 00:46:50,876
and certainly, um,

708
00:46:50,909 --> 00:46:53,344
different cultures have
different approaches

709
00:46:53,378 --> 00:46:55,313
to... to work with,

710
00:46:55,346 --> 00:46:56,915
uh, different priorities,

711
00:46:56,948 --> 00:46:59,885
and Mr. Bigot is
a European.

712
00:46:59,918 --> 00:47:02,153
So for us Europeans,
it's certainly easier,

713
00:47:02,187 --> 00:47:04,055
right, to understand
what he wants.

714
00:47:04,089 --> 00:47:07,425
But if it is possible
to demonstrate

715
00:47:07,458 --> 00:47:10,028
and it will work for, okay,

716
00:47:10,061 --> 00:47:12,030
thousand and thousand of euros,

717
00:47:12,063 --> 00:47:13,965
I'm ready to wait for 20 years.

718
00:47:13,999 --> 00:47:15,433
-Is not my problem.
-[chuckles]

719
00:47:16,434 --> 00:47:19,004
[speaking French]

720
00:47:19,037 --> 00:47:21,039
No, no, no, you know,
the sun is not obsolete

721
00:47:21,072 --> 00:47:22,607
even after five billion
of years.

722
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:26,411
[speaking French]

723
00:48:00,645 --> 00:48:02,480
[Charles Seife]
Well, I think there is something

724
00:48:02,513 --> 00:48:03,982
inherently difficult
about fusion.

725
00:48:04,015 --> 00:48:06,384
That it is, uh,
an attempt to harness

726
00:48:06,417 --> 00:48:09,487
some of the most difficult-
to-harness forces in nature.

727
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:11,222
You have to get something

728
00:48:11,256 --> 00:48:14,125
at tens or hundreds of millions
of degrees Kelvin

729
00:48:14,159 --> 00:48:16,928
into a tight package,
and nature resists that.

730
00:48:16,962 --> 00:48:18,596
So tha-that is inherently hard.

731
00:48:18,629 --> 00:48:21,399
But on top of that, um...

732
00:48:22,567 --> 00:48:24,669
there seem to be
political pressures

733
00:48:24,702 --> 00:48:28,006
trying to blow apart
any large project.

734
00:48:28,039 --> 00:48:31,042
That once you have to gather
many, many people

735
00:48:31,076 --> 00:48:35,947
from different countries
to combine resources,

736
00:48:35,981 --> 00:48:38,416
especially over decades
and decades,

737
00:48:38,449 --> 00:48:42,620
the different political wills,
the different goals,

738
00:48:42,653 --> 00:48:45,023
uh, all clash with each other

739
00:48:45,056 --> 00:48:47,592
and eventually you wind up
with infighting,

740
00:48:47,625 --> 00:48:49,260
with cost overruns,

741
00:48:49,294 --> 00:48:52,297
and things begin to fall apart
after several years.

742
00:48:52,330 --> 00:48:54,966
And this is what we saw
with ITER round one,

743
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:56,701
and the same thing seems
to be happening again,

744
00:48:56,734 --> 00:48:58,403
uh, with round two.

745
00:49:09,414 --> 00:49:11,582
[Laban Coblentz]
I am often asked the question,

746
00:49:11,616 --> 00:49:13,618
how do you maintain
a sense of urgency

747
00:49:13,651 --> 00:49:16,421
on a project that takes
20 years or more?

748
00:49:16,454 --> 00:49:21,192
Yeah? And so the answer
is that globally--

749
00:49:21,226 --> 00:49:23,194
'Cause for this crowd,
the Apollo Project

750
00:49:23,228 --> 00:49:25,196
is what they always
think about as the--

751
00:49:25,230 --> 00:49:29,000
that if we think about
how short for most of us

752
00:49:29,034 --> 00:49:31,136
20 years ago really seems
and all that has happened--

753
00:49:31,169 --> 00:49:34,172
The Secretary of Energy
was asked specifically

754
00:49:34,205 --> 00:49:37,208
to make a recommendation
by the second of May this year

755
00:49:37,242 --> 00:49:39,377
on that topic,
a progress report on ITER,

756
00:49:39,410 --> 00:49:41,779
and should the US stay in
or should they not.

757
00:49:41,812 --> 00:49:45,383
Yeah, I think that
it's quite clear

758
00:49:45,416 --> 00:49:48,253
that, uh, things are moving
in a positive direction,

759
00:49:48,286 --> 00:49:51,722
but we were digging out
of a fairly significant hole,

760
00:49:51,756 --> 00:49:54,459
and so progress was
really necessary.

761
00:49:54,492 --> 00:49:57,295
It's up to the American Congress
to make the decision,

762
00:49:57,328 --> 00:50:00,598
you know, if the project
will deliver.

763
00:50:11,509 --> 00:50:14,579
[man] Sub-Committee on Energy
will come to order.

764
00:50:14,612 --> 00:50:18,049
And we wanna welcome you
to today's hearing entitled,

765
00:50:18,083 --> 00:50:21,119
"An Overview of Fusion
Energy Science."

766
00:50:21,152 --> 00:50:23,354
Is it ee-ter or eye-ter?

767
00:50:23,388 --> 00:50:25,290
-[man] Ee-ter.
-Ee-ter. Hmm. Okay.

768
00:50:25,323 --> 00:50:27,792
Tokamak. I keep wanting
to say "Tomahawk,"

769
00:50:27,825 --> 00:50:29,394
-and I know that's...
-[laughter]

770
00:50:29,427 --> 00:50:30,761
that's not right.

771
00:50:30,795 --> 00:50:34,432
With the complexity
of a multi-national
collaboration like ITER,

772
00:50:34,465 --> 00:50:38,569
this project has faced
more challenges than most.

773
00:50:38,603 --> 00:50:41,072
Fortunately, today, we have
the opportunity to hear

774
00:50:41,106 --> 00:50:43,341
from the director-general
of the ITER project directly,

775
00:50:43,374 --> 00:50:46,344
Dr. Bernard--
Is it Bee-go?

776
00:50:46,377 --> 00:50:49,247
Uh, I do believe if we have
the proper management,

777
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,816
we will be able
to deliver on time.

778
00:50:51,849 --> 00:50:53,684
We have spent how much money

779
00:50:53,718 --> 00:50:55,486
over the last ten years,
the United States?

780
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,688
When the US signed up
for the project,

781
00:50:57,722 --> 00:50:59,357
you know, the representation
was made

782
00:50:59,390 --> 00:51:01,192
that this project
was ready to go

783
00:51:01,226 --> 00:51:02,760
to an extent that,
in retrospect,

784
00:51:02,793 --> 00:51:03,928
probably wasn't the case.

785
00:51:03,961 --> 00:51:08,566
When you think about what
we spent on imported oil alone--

786
00:51:08,599 --> 00:51:12,303
I just want to understand
the dimensions of the cliff

787
00:51:12,337 --> 00:51:14,805
that we're playing near when we
talk about the US pulling out.

788
00:51:14,839 --> 00:51:19,177
If you're gonna have to lay odds
on, on all the engineering

789
00:51:19,210 --> 00:51:21,479
and all these things
coming together,

790
00:51:21,512 --> 00:51:24,215
uh... what are your odds?

791
00:51:24,249 --> 00:51:27,718
I do believe this project
could be so beneficial

792
00:51:27,752 --> 00:51:30,755
to the world,
that it is really worth

793
00:51:30,788 --> 00:51:32,723
to try and to demonstrate.

794
00:51:32,757 --> 00:51:34,592
-And again--
-Let me mention this.

795
00:51:34,625 --> 00:51:38,163
There are a lot of wonderful
things we can do in this world.

796
00:51:38,196 --> 00:51:40,531
-[Bigot] I know.
-Wonderful things.

797
00:51:40,565 --> 00:51:41,866
-And--
-Including ITER.

798
00:51:41,899 --> 00:51:44,602
Yeah, um, okay.
And ITER may be one of them,

799
00:51:44,635 --> 00:51:48,606
but what we do is we judge
each one based on the cost

800
00:51:48,639 --> 00:51:51,609
and the chances of success.

801
00:51:51,642 --> 00:51:55,246
Because, in theory, it's such
a beautiful and simple idea.

802
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:57,382
Yet, throughout,
people have found

803
00:51:57,415 --> 00:52:00,618
as soon as they get
around the next corner,

804
00:52:00,651 --> 00:52:02,753
there is yet another hurdle.

805
00:52:02,787 --> 00:52:05,690
Um, and nature seems
to have this way

806
00:52:05,723 --> 00:52:07,658
of throwing up, um,

807
00:52:07,692 --> 00:52:11,229
blockade after blockade
after blockade that makes

808
00:52:11,262 --> 00:52:14,632
scientists' optimism,
uh, look naive.

809
00:52:16,567 --> 00:52:19,437
My favorite fusion conman,

810
00:52:19,470 --> 00:52:22,440
uh, was Richter from Argentina.

811
00:52:25,776 --> 00:52:28,479
He was a German
or Austrian expat--

812
00:52:28,513 --> 00:52:30,915
We actually know
very little about him--

813
00:52:30,948 --> 00:52:33,951
who moved to Argentina

814
00:52:33,984 --> 00:52:36,321
and managed to convince
Juan Peron

815
00:52:36,354 --> 00:52:37,822
that he had figured out
a method

816
00:52:37,855 --> 00:52:40,791
of, uh, harnessing the sun

817
00:52:40,825 --> 00:52:42,427
and called it thermotron.

818
00:52:43,728 --> 00:52:46,631
And so they built
this secret lab on an island.

819
00:52:47,565 --> 00:52:52,303
And this crazy expat
was running around

820
00:52:52,337 --> 00:52:53,938
pouring gunpowder
in experiments,

821
00:52:53,971 --> 00:52:55,840
blowing doors off his lab,

822
00:52:55,873 --> 00:52:58,309
writing fusion
on ticker tapes everywhere,

823
00:52:58,343 --> 00:53:01,546
convincing everyone for
a matter of months and years

824
00:53:01,579 --> 00:53:04,782
that he has solved
the world's energy problems.

825
00:53:17,928 --> 00:53:20,798
Until he was finally
found out as a fraud
and wound up in jail.

826
00:53:20,831 --> 00:53:22,500
[cell door clanking]

827
00:53:25,336 --> 00:53:28,005
One of the things that's
interesting about his story

828
00:53:28,038 --> 00:53:31,476
is that the physicists

829
00:53:31,509 --> 00:53:34,779
who first thought
about magnetic fusion

830
00:53:34,812 --> 00:53:35,980
were inspired by his story.

831
00:53:36,013 --> 00:53:40,818
They saw a front page
New York Times claim

832
00:53:40,851 --> 00:53:43,888
about fusion energy
in Argentina,

833
00:53:43,921 --> 00:53:45,590
and the scientists here
were thinking,

834
00:53:45,623 --> 00:53:47,358
how could that be done?

835
00:53:55,633 --> 00:53:58,336
[Lyman Spitzer]
My wife and I were
planning to leave for Aspen,

836
00:53:58,369 --> 00:53:59,637
and my father, he said,

837
00:53:59,670 --> 00:54:02,507
"Well, I understand
the Argentines have, uh,

838
00:54:02,540 --> 00:54:05,376
have gotten ahead of you
in the fusion program."

839
00:54:05,410 --> 00:54:08,513
He'd seen the
New York Times article

840
00:54:08,546 --> 00:54:12,317
that a fellow named Richter
had released fusion

841
00:54:12,350 --> 00:54:14,018
in a controlled manner
in Argentina,

842
00:54:14,051 --> 00:54:16,421
and Peron made quite
a thing of it.

843
00:54:16,454 --> 00:54:17,955
I read the
New York Times article.

844
00:54:17,988 --> 00:54:21,392
Then we got on a train
down to Aspen.

845
00:54:32,002 --> 00:54:35,673
It was during the intervals out
there, when we weren't skiing,

846
00:54:35,706 --> 00:54:37,475
I was thinking about this.

847
00:54:37,508 --> 00:54:41,379
How would one do it
if one were trying to?

848
00:54:41,412 --> 00:54:44,482
I worked out some
of the general ideas

849
00:54:44,515 --> 00:54:48,786
that I later developed
into the stellarator.

850
00:54:50,388 --> 00:54:53,023
[man] So Spitzer came up
with this cool device

851
00:54:53,057 --> 00:54:54,559
called the stellarator.

852
00:54:54,592 --> 00:54:57,061
Stellarators are a
complicated machine,

853
00:54:57,094 --> 00:54:59,730
and they have
worse confinement in general.

854
00:54:59,764 --> 00:55:02,733
But there's no such thing
as disruption in a stellarator.

855
00:55:02,767 --> 00:55:05,736
And so stellarators
for the past decade

856
00:55:05,770 --> 00:55:07,538
have just been more
and more complicated.

857
00:55:07,572 --> 00:55:10,007
They look like squid fighting
each other at this point.

858
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,811
You can specify what magnetic
field configuration you want.

859
00:55:13,844 --> 00:55:16,814
So then you give the computer
the job of iterating

860
00:55:16,847 --> 00:55:18,516
through a bunch of possible
different coils

861
00:55:18,549 --> 00:55:21,352
until it gets to the right
magnetic field configuration.

862
00:55:21,386 --> 00:55:23,821
And you end up
with something weird, like this.

863
00:55:23,854 --> 00:55:25,189
It's cool, right?

864
00:55:25,222 --> 00:55:28,426
All right, any other questions
before we move on
to the tokamak?

865
00:55:29,494 --> 00:55:30,895
Okay, let's bust a move.

866
00:55:53,484 --> 00:55:56,020
So W7-X is
a really cool experiment.

867
00:55:56,053 --> 00:55:58,022
It's a stellarator which has

868
00:55:58,055 --> 00:55:59,624
a lot of advantages
over a tokamak.

869
00:55:59,657 --> 00:56:01,659
The biggest advantage
is that it can just run.

870
00:56:01,692 --> 00:56:05,730
It just-- You know,
for hours hopefully.

871
00:56:05,763 --> 00:56:08,599
And once you can do that,
you can build a power plant.

872
00:56:08,633 --> 00:56:11,736
Um, and so tokamaks
right now have a problem

873
00:56:11,769 --> 00:56:14,071
where they just,
they can't run continuously,

874
00:56:14,104 --> 00:56:16,040
but this experiment
is designed to show that

875
00:56:16,073 --> 00:56:17,174
it can be done continuously

876
00:56:17,207 --> 00:56:20,878
at parameters that are
good enough for fusion, so...

877
00:56:20,911 --> 00:56:23,180
I came here, and I came
to know about stellarators

878
00:56:23,213 --> 00:56:25,149
and somewhere along
the line, I switched

879
00:56:25,182 --> 00:56:28,786
from believing in tokamaks
to more in stellarators,

880
00:56:28,819 --> 00:56:30,087
and I thought, yeah,

881
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:31,989
maybe this is the future
of energy and fusion.

882
00:56:35,092 --> 00:56:38,162
[Sibylle Guenter] This project
would not have been possible

883
00:56:38,195 --> 00:56:39,897
without the reunion of Germany.

884
00:56:39,930 --> 00:56:44,034
It is co-financed by Europe
to a big extent.

885
00:56:44,068 --> 00:56:47,204
But still the project team
is in our hands.

886
00:56:47,237 --> 00:56:50,508
We had to take care
that we have young people

887
00:56:50,541 --> 00:56:53,077
being able to do physics now
with the new machine

888
00:56:53,110 --> 00:56:56,581
and really to make this a team.

889
00:56:56,614 --> 00:57:01,586
Wendelstein is a highly
optimized stellerator device,

890
00:57:01,619 --> 00:57:02,953
three-dimensional design.

891
00:57:02,987 --> 00:57:05,055
It goes back about 20 years.

892
00:57:05,089 --> 00:57:08,993
And, um, to build this, to get
the support to build this,

893
00:57:09,026 --> 00:57:12,663
they had to build it in
the then-reuniting Germany.

894
00:57:12,697 --> 00:57:14,699
It's a crucial part
of the story.

895
00:57:14,732 --> 00:57:16,967
So they started
a completely new institute

896
00:57:17,001 --> 00:57:18,536
from nothing up here.

897
00:57:18,569 --> 00:57:22,840
And they had to go
into building something that
had never been built before.

898
00:57:22,873 --> 00:57:27,177
Now, unsurprisingly,
it ended up being more complex

899
00:57:27,211 --> 00:57:29,980
and expensive and difficult
than they planned.

900
00:57:33,217 --> 00:57:36,887
[man speaking German]

901
00:57:38,122 --> 00:57:41,258
[applause]

902
00:57:41,291 --> 00:57:44,529
[Chancellor Merkel
speaking German]

903
00:58:46,290 --> 00:58:49,526
[Guenter speaking German]

904
00:59:03,373 --> 00:59:04,742
[beeping]

905
00:59:40,377 --> 00:59:43,914
[woman speaking German]

906
00:59:48,152 --> 00:59:51,722
[Guenter speaking German]

907
00:59:56,994 --> 00:59:59,363
Big emotion.
Big emotion, you know.

908
00:59:59,396 --> 01:00:01,899
I do believe
it's really a landmark

909
01:00:01,932 --> 01:00:06,737
in the history of fusion
to see with these stellarators

910
01:00:06,771 --> 01:00:08,372
it works right away.

911
01:00:08,405 --> 01:00:09,707
Very good.

912
01:00:09,740 --> 01:00:11,909
She's a really great scientist,

913
01:00:11,942 --> 01:00:15,345
and she know how to organize
the work of this people

914
01:00:15,379 --> 01:00:17,414
to give good priorities,

915
01:00:17,447 --> 01:00:19,784
and I really believe
she deserve

916
01:00:19,817 --> 01:00:21,952
full recognition
for her achievement.

917
01:00:21,986 --> 01:00:26,090
[indistinct chatter]

918
01:00:35,700 --> 01:00:37,267
[Laberge]
Well, this fusion business

919
01:00:37,301 --> 01:00:39,770
has been going a little slower
than we were all hoping

920
01:00:39,804 --> 01:00:41,105
when we started this company.

921
01:00:41,138 --> 01:00:42,272
We started with great gusto,

922
01:00:42,306 --> 01:00:44,308
"Yeah, we're gonna
whisk that up."

923
01:00:44,341 --> 01:00:46,410
And then we ran
into difficulties,

924
01:00:46,443 --> 01:00:49,046
so it's a little longer
than what we wanted.

925
01:00:49,079 --> 01:00:51,281
So it's a little bit
more challenging.

926
01:00:51,315 --> 01:00:55,085
But we-we're still optimistic
that we're doing good progress.

927
01:00:55,119 --> 01:00:56,754
It's going a little slower
than I'd like,

928
01:00:56,787 --> 01:00:58,288
but it's-it's advancing forward.

929
01:00:58,322 --> 01:00:59,489
So we're not kind of stopped.

930
01:00:59,523 --> 01:01:03,360
So mood is okay, but now we're,
we're kind of gearing up

931
01:01:03,393 --> 01:01:07,364
for a bit more of a long run
than a, than a quick success.

932
01:01:07,397 --> 01:01:09,199
We're certainly not
the startup anymore,

933
01:01:09,233 --> 01:01:13,403
like we used to be a real
scruffy little startup,

934
01:01:13,437 --> 01:01:15,873
but now we're getting
more people,

935
01:01:15,906 --> 01:01:18,475
it's a bigger shop,
and been here for a few years.

936
01:01:18,508 --> 01:01:20,144
We have shown some result.

937
01:01:21,145 --> 01:01:23,380
This is 1,500 microseconds.

938
01:01:23,413 --> 01:01:24,949
The compression time is only

939
01:01:24,982 --> 01:01:27,885
180 microseconds,
a little time here.

940
01:01:27,918 --> 01:01:29,319
So the magnetic field
is going up and up and up.

941
01:01:29,353 --> 01:01:33,057
This is good. This is what
we want when you compress
magnetic field.

942
01:01:33,090 --> 01:01:35,459
But then again you see
all those oscillations,

943
01:01:35,492 --> 01:01:38,162
both on the outside sensor
and the inside sensor

944
01:01:38,195 --> 01:01:40,064
and then the plasma crash,

945
01:01:40,097 --> 01:01:41,131
like it-it dies here.

946
01:01:41,165 --> 01:01:43,934
What we want it to do is
to go up, up, up, up, up,

947
01:01:43,968 --> 01:01:45,970
probably to about
this height here.

948
01:01:46,003 --> 01:01:48,272
[alarm blaring]

949
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:52,743
[thud]

950
01:01:52,777 --> 01:01:56,814
[man]
So, we're clamping it now,
um, Claude,

951
01:01:56,847 --> 01:01:59,249
so stop flowing.
Stop flowing!

952
01:01:59,283 --> 01:02:01,886
-[man 2] Okay!
-[man 1] Okay.

953
01:02:03,287 --> 01:02:04,855
This is always
a stressful event,

954
01:02:04,889 --> 01:02:06,323
because if we let air
into the chamber,

955
01:02:06,356 --> 01:02:09,059
it's filled with moisture,
and it will ruin the quality
of our vacuum.

956
01:02:09,093 --> 01:02:10,895
It will take weeks
and weeks to recover.

957
01:02:13,497 --> 01:02:14,999
Ooh, gosh.

958
01:02:23,507 --> 01:02:26,276
All right, go on,
cut the flow in... now.

959
01:02:26,310 --> 01:02:28,245
Cut it now.

960
01:02:28,278 --> 01:02:30,114
Very good. Thanks.

961
01:02:30,147 --> 01:02:30,981
We did it.

962
01:02:31,015 --> 01:02:32,983
Five years ago when
we were staring up

963
01:02:33,017 --> 01:02:34,451
and building our first machines,

964
01:02:34,484 --> 01:02:36,020
we were having things
blow up every day.

965
01:02:36,053 --> 01:02:38,388
It was--
People were scared.

966
01:02:38,422 --> 01:02:40,224
The siren really made
people frightened.

967
01:02:41,425 --> 01:02:44,228
[indistinct chatter]

968
01:02:44,261 --> 01:02:46,196
[man] There's no point building
the wrong thing though.

969
01:02:46,230 --> 01:02:49,099
[man 2] I got it. Yeah,
absolutely. I know. I know.

970
01:02:49,133 --> 01:02:51,869
But the flip side of that
is that that can go on

971
01:02:51,902 --> 01:02:53,904
-for a while, right?
-Mm-hmm.

972
01:02:53,938 --> 01:02:56,807
I know you got a good handle
on it, but just I gotta ask.

973
01:02:56,841 --> 01:03:00,010
But-But I'm not against
actually restarting our...

974
01:03:00,044 --> 01:03:02,012
-I... well...
-[laughter]

975
01:03:02,046 --> 01:03:05,515
Because in my opinion, we should
try all the available targets.

976
01:03:05,549 --> 01:03:07,484
-Got it. However--
-Because you don't know

977
01:03:07,517 --> 01:03:08,953
what the hell
would work or not.

978
01:03:08,986 --> 01:03:10,387
It it decided that we have
a pot of work,

979
01:03:10,420 --> 01:03:13,357
and we're trying to fill--
we're trying to put people
in those pots.

980
01:03:13,390 --> 01:03:16,360
No, no, no. We don't have enough
people to fill in those pots,

981
01:03:16,393 --> 01:03:19,163
so we wanted to get people
to put into those pots

982
01:03:19,196 --> 01:03:20,865
but what we have done...

983
01:03:20,898 --> 01:03:23,433
-is make an extra pot.
-...is made a new pot.

984
01:03:23,467 --> 01:03:26,436
-Be careful of that.
-Yes, I understand the problem.

985
01:03:26,470 --> 01:03:28,372
[laughing]

986
01:03:28,405 --> 01:03:29,439
Good.

987
01:03:29,473 --> 01:03:31,041
I-I like... I'm a,

988
01:03:31,075 --> 01:03:33,577
I'm a practical physicist,

989
01:03:33,610 --> 01:03:34,711
an experimental physicist.

990
01:03:34,744 --> 01:03:37,848
It is true that at work
I don't do the work anymore.

991
01:03:37,882 --> 01:03:40,084
Now, all my guy do the work,
and we just--

992
01:03:40,117 --> 01:03:42,286
I push paper
and answer emails.

993
01:03:42,319 --> 01:03:46,056
Sometime I go into the lab
and turn some screws
just because I like it.

994
01:03:46,090 --> 01:03:48,358
But yeah, this is one
of the hobby that I have.

995
01:03:48,392 --> 01:03:50,260
[rattling]

996
01:03:55,966 --> 01:03:57,601
I put my hat.
That's my mother hat.

997
01:03:57,634 --> 01:03:58,568
She knitted this one.

998
01:04:00,204 --> 01:04:03,974
Oh, long time ago.
Must be at least 30 years.

999
01:04:04,608 --> 01:04:06,176
She passed away now.

1000
01:04:07,644 --> 01:04:09,146
She won't knit me a new one.

1001
01:04:10,981 --> 01:04:13,217
[engine starts]

1002
01:04:59,964 --> 01:05:01,498
My name is Mark Uhran.

1003
01:05:01,531 --> 01:05:04,434
I was previously the director

1004
01:05:04,468 --> 01:05:06,403
of the International
Space Station division

1005
01:05:06,436 --> 01:05:09,573
at NASA headquarters,
and I spent 28 years

1006
01:05:09,606 --> 01:05:11,575
working on
the space station program,

1007
01:05:11,608 --> 01:05:14,678
and I now work
for the US ITER project.

1008
01:05:14,711 --> 01:05:19,149
What struck me the strongest
from the very first year

1009
01:05:19,183 --> 01:05:20,617
as I began to meet the people

1010
01:05:20,650 --> 01:05:22,652
that were engaged
around the world

1011
01:05:22,686 --> 01:05:24,154
was how much this was like

1012
01:05:24,188 --> 01:05:26,690
the International
Space Station program.

1013
01:05:26,723 --> 01:05:30,360
Uh, ITER, when I joined,
was right around the end

1014
01:05:30,394 --> 01:05:33,163
of their final design phase.

1015
01:05:33,197 --> 01:05:35,299
And today they're on the cusp

1016
01:05:35,332 --> 01:05:38,435
between final design
and construction.

1017
01:05:38,468 --> 01:05:40,570
And the space station program

1018
01:05:40,604 --> 01:05:43,607
toward the end
of the final design phase

1019
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:46,110
was really quite chaotic.

1020
01:05:46,143 --> 01:05:50,114
Uh, they had not yet
reached a point

1021
01:05:50,147 --> 01:05:53,183
where the
decision-making process

1022
01:05:53,217 --> 01:05:55,085
was being done

1023
01:05:55,119 --> 01:05:58,488
in accordance with practices
of systems engineering.

1024
01:05:58,522 --> 01:06:00,690
It took two to three years

1025
01:06:00,724 --> 01:06:02,326
to accomplish that turnaround,

1026
01:06:02,359 --> 01:06:07,131
because this was a project
that spanned five partners

1027
01:06:07,164 --> 01:06:09,766
and involved on the order
of five to ten thousand people

1028
01:06:09,799 --> 01:06:11,135
around the world.

1029
01:06:11,168 --> 01:06:13,403
Oh, it's like trying
to change the course

1030
01:06:13,437 --> 01:06:15,139
on a supertanker.

1031
01:06:15,172 --> 01:06:17,207
So when I joined ITER
four years ago,

1032
01:06:17,241 --> 01:06:20,044
the process was
similarly chaotic

1033
01:06:20,077 --> 01:06:22,212
and certainly in need of

1034
01:06:22,246 --> 01:06:25,649
a regimented and disciplined
systems engineering approach.

1035
01:06:25,682 --> 01:06:28,218
And over the past four years,

1036
01:06:28,252 --> 01:06:30,487
I've seen progress
in that direction.

1037
01:06:32,056 --> 01:06:35,592
This-This is a real test

1038
01:06:35,625 --> 01:06:36,626
of human civilization.

1039
01:06:36,660 --> 01:06:40,364
And it's a test that we
can't afford to fail.

1040
01:06:42,399 --> 01:06:46,170
We have to prove that
we have the intelligence...

1041
01:06:47,071 --> 01:06:48,572
to prevent our own extinction.

1042
01:08:03,180 --> 01:08:06,082
[speaking English]

1043
01:08:09,853 --> 01:08:12,522
[speaking Italian]

1044
01:08:46,856 --> 01:08:49,393
[all shout]

1045
01:09:23,693 --> 01:09:25,929
[Henderson] To be able to work
on fusion, I think is for me

1046
01:09:25,962 --> 01:09:27,631
is a dream come true,

1047
01:09:27,664 --> 01:09:28,932
but it's not just us.

1048
01:09:28,965 --> 01:09:30,434
It's actually you guys as well,

1049
01:09:30,467 --> 01:09:32,602
because your support,
or your taxes,

1050
01:09:32,636 --> 01:09:34,638
are putting force to this,

1051
01:09:34,671 --> 01:09:37,274
to the dawn of the fusion age.

1052
01:09:37,307 --> 01:09:40,277
And so, to a large extent,
I thank you guys,

1053
01:09:40,310 --> 01:09:42,279
one, for your curiosity
in coming,

1054
01:09:42,312 --> 01:09:44,414
but also for your support
for fusion.

1055
01:09:44,448 --> 01:09:46,683
-So, thank you.
-[applause]

1056
01:09:47,617 --> 01:09:50,387
-I'm Chuck Flanigan.
-Hi, Chuck.

1057
01:09:50,420 --> 01:09:51,321
Hi.

1058
01:09:51,355 --> 01:09:53,957
Back during the
engineering design phase,

1059
01:09:53,990 --> 01:09:56,360
I was the deputy manager
for the US team.

1060
01:09:56,393 --> 01:09:58,495
-Oh, fantastic!
-That was a long time ago.

1061
01:09:58,528 --> 01:10:01,398
I've been retired
since 95, so...

1062
01:10:01,431 --> 01:10:03,567
The Munich
television people come out.

1063
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:06,270
They wanted to know, "How can
you be working on something

1064
01:10:06,303 --> 01:10:08,672
that's going to last
50 years into the future?"

1065
01:10:08,705 --> 01:10:11,575
And Ken said, "Have you ever
been into the cathedral?"

1066
01:10:11,608 --> 01:10:12,909
Yeah, exactly.

1067
01:10:12,942 --> 01:10:14,678
Those people never saw
the final product.

1068
01:10:14,711 --> 01:10:17,414
-No, no, they passed away,
but they also--
-Good job.

1069
01:10:17,447 --> 01:10:20,417
-People like Spitzer, same way.
-Yeah. Right. Exactly.

1070
01:10:20,450 --> 01:10:21,851
-Thank you. Also thank you...
-Yeah, thanks.

1071
01:10:21,885 --> 01:10:25,355
for laying the foundation
in the road to get to where
we are today.

1072
01:10:26,956 --> 01:10:32,696
I came on February 14, 19--
uh, 2008.

1073
01:10:32,729 --> 01:10:36,333
I left CRPP Lausanne,
Switzerland one day

1074
01:10:36,366 --> 01:10:38,268
and showed up here
the next day to start working.

1075
01:10:38,302 --> 01:10:40,003
[woman talking indistinctly]

1076
01:10:40,036 --> 01:10:41,871
This is cool.

1077
01:10:41,905 --> 01:10:43,373
I get to go on-site.

1078
01:10:47,477 --> 01:10:48,978
I've never gone
beyond this point.

1079
01:10:49,012 --> 01:10:50,480
This is like Frodo, you know.

1080
01:10:50,514 --> 01:10:52,349
I've never been--
This is like, you know,

1081
01:10:52,382 --> 01:10:53,750
a first step on the site.

1082
01:10:53,783 --> 01:10:55,385
This is cool, isn't it?

1083
01:11:00,657 --> 01:11:01,825
Go this way?

1084
01:11:05,529 --> 01:11:07,364
I look at this and I see...

1085
01:11:07,397 --> 01:11:10,500
what is gonna happen
in five, ten years.

1086
01:11:10,534 --> 01:11:13,069
So even though
I haven't been down there,

1087
01:11:13,102 --> 01:11:15,339
I know what it is in my brain.

1088
01:11:22,078 --> 01:11:23,947
I can see the vessel.

1089
01:11:23,980 --> 01:11:25,815
I can see inside the vessel.

1090
01:11:25,849 --> 01:11:28,818
I can see everything,
but I can't see the plasma side.

1091
01:11:28,852 --> 01:11:31,788
That one, that one
I'm looking forward to seeing.

1092
01:11:33,557 --> 01:11:34,324
Okay?

1093
01:11:34,358 --> 01:11:36,426
Let's go. I wanna
get down there.

1094
01:11:36,460 --> 01:11:37,694
You guys are holding me back.

1095
01:11:40,697 --> 01:11:43,700
This is pretty cool, when
you think also that we're, uh...

1096
01:11:45,134 --> 01:11:47,437
gonna be about
30 meters underground.

1097
01:11:48,104 --> 01:11:49,939
It's weird to be here.

1098
01:11:49,973 --> 01:11:53,610
And to think that
in about...

1099
01:11:53,643 --> 01:11:54,778
ten years' time,
there's going to be about

1100
01:11:54,811 --> 01:11:58,415
100 million degrees Celsius
above-- sitting above us.

1101
01:11:58,448 --> 01:12:01,418
And another four and a half
meters up is the level 1,

1102
01:12:01,451 --> 01:12:04,020
the ground floor... launchers.

1103
01:12:04,053 --> 01:12:05,889
The next level up, level 2,

1104
01:12:05,922 --> 01:12:07,557
the diagnostics,
the heating systems,

1105
01:12:07,591 --> 01:12:09,926
the ion cyclotron,
electron cyclotron.

1106
01:12:09,959 --> 01:12:11,728
It's all there.

1107
01:12:11,761 --> 01:12:14,330
Just give it some time.
It will come.

1108
01:12:19,135 --> 01:12:21,871
[speaking French]

1109
01:15:21,117 --> 01:15:25,054
[Laberge] I think that ITER
will probably work,

1110
01:15:25,088 --> 01:15:28,792
and it will demonstrate
that fusion is doable.

1111
01:15:28,825 --> 01:15:31,628
I think that as a project
it's very difficult

1112
01:15:31,661 --> 01:15:32,796
because it's international,

1113
01:15:32,829 --> 01:15:36,165
so there's all sort of project
management issue there.

1114
01:15:36,199 --> 01:15:37,667
So they're gonna blow
their budget

1115
01:15:37,701 --> 01:15:39,869
and their schedule big time.

1116
01:15:47,010 --> 01:15:50,179
It's just become such
a Tower of Babel in there,

1117
01:15:50,213 --> 01:15:54,217
it will burn money at twice the
rate that you need to do it.

1118
01:15:54,250 --> 01:15:56,219
But we'll,
we'll plow through it.

1119
01:15:56,252 --> 01:15:58,955
It will get built,
and it will work.

1120
01:15:58,988 --> 01:16:01,257
And this will, in my opinion,
give a big shot

1121
01:16:01,290 --> 01:16:03,259
in the arm of fusion
because here is a machine

1122
01:16:03,292 --> 01:16:04,794
that showed it can be done.

1123
01:16:04,828 --> 01:16:07,030
However, as a power plant,

1124
01:16:07,063 --> 01:16:08,732
I don't think
it's very practical.

1125
01:16:08,765 --> 01:16:10,634
It's a machine
that's very complex,

1126
01:16:10,667 --> 01:16:12,068
very expensive,

1127
01:16:12,101 --> 01:16:14,871
a little unreliable, there's
those disruption in there

1128
01:16:14,904 --> 01:16:16,873
that happen that can
damage the machine.

1129
01:16:16,906 --> 01:16:19,342
It's-It's difficult to conceive

1130
01:16:19,375 --> 01:16:21,645
that such a machine
can become a reliable

1131
01:16:21,678 --> 01:16:23,146
day-to-day power plant.

1132
01:16:23,179 --> 01:16:26,616
But, you know, it's-it's like
the Wright brothers, you know.

1133
01:16:26,650 --> 01:16:28,685
Like that plane didn't have
to take a 100 passengers

1134
01:16:28,718 --> 01:16:29,786
across the Atlantic,

1135
01:16:29,819 --> 01:16:33,156
but it evolved when somebody
showed that you can fly.

1136
01:16:33,189 --> 01:16:35,892
After that, lots of investment
and money goes in.

1137
01:16:35,925 --> 01:16:38,094
After that, the excitement
in fusion will go up,

1138
01:16:38,127 --> 01:16:39,062
because right now,

1139
01:16:39,095 --> 01:16:41,364
there's not much excitement
about fusion.

1140
01:16:41,397 --> 01:16:44,167
If you look at the
alternative energy concept,

1141
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:45,835
you ever hear about fusion?

1142
01:16:45,869 --> 01:16:49,973
Ah, windmill, solar, tide,
chicken shit, whatever,

1143
01:16:50,006 --> 01:16:51,675
but never fusion.

1144
01:16:52,408 --> 01:16:54,277
Uh, this is
the Port Mann Bridge.

1145
01:16:54,310 --> 01:16:55,679
It's brand new actually.

1146
01:16:55,712 --> 01:16:57,380
It's one of those
cable-stayed ones.

1147
01:16:57,413 --> 01:16:59,148
It's actually quite nice.

1148
01:16:59,182 --> 01:17:02,786
A billion dollar... [chuckles]
to build such a thing.

1149
01:17:04,053 --> 01:17:05,855
It's about 20 billion
for 20 years.

1150
01:17:05,889 --> 01:17:08,157
A billion a year.
Fusion, I mean.

1151
01:17:08,191 --> 01:17:11,294
One bridge a year to try
to develop a new energy source

1152
01:17:11,327 --> 01:17:13,062
that will replace
all the fossil fuel

1153
01:17:13,096 --> 01:17:15,031
and the pollution
and the global warming.

1154
01:17:16,099 --> 01:17:17,834
Let's do it, you know.

1155
01:17:17,867 --> 01:17:20,937
One bridge a year. Peanuts.

1156
01:17:23,773 --> 01:17:26,843
Hopefully, we can crack
this nut very soon.

1157
01:17:26,876 --> 01:17:29,879
I will work on this thing
all my life until it works.

1158
01:17:29,913 --> 01:17:32,248
This is my great dream
in life, you know.

1159
01:17:32,281 --> 01:17:34,083
I want to make fusion happen.

1160
01:17:34,117 --> 01:17:37,286
* When I think
of all the worries *

1161
01:17:37,320 --> 01:17:39,455
* People seem to find

1162
01:17:39,488 --> 01:17:41,290
* And how they're in a hurry

1163
01:17:41,324 --> 01:17:43,292
* To complicate their minds

1164
01:17:43,326 --> 01:17:45,161
* By chasing after money

1165
01:17:45,194 --> 01:17:47,430
* And dreams
that can't come true *

1166
01:17:47,463 --> 01:17:49,432
* I'm glad that
we are different *

1167
01:17:49,465 --> 01:17:51,701
* We've better things to do

1168
01:17:51,735 --> 01:17:53,703
* May others plan their future

1169
01:17:53,737 --> 01:17:57,140
* I'm busy loving you

1170
01:17:57,173 --> 01:17:58,942
* One two three four

1171
01:17:58,975 --> 01:18:03,079
* Sha la la la la la
live for today *

1172
01:18:03,112 --> 01:18:06,750
* Sha la la la la la
live for today *

1173
01:18:06,783 --> 01:18:11,420
* And don't worry
'bout tomorrow, hey *

1174
01:18:11,454 --> 01:18:14,758
* Sha la la la la la
live for today *

1175
01:18:14,791 --> 01:18:16,292
* Live for today...

1176
01:18:16,325 --> 01:18:18,394
[Laberge] And I have to say
that I was starting to be

1177
01:18:18,427 --> 01:18:20,029
a little nervous
on the money situation

1178
01:18:20,063 --> 01:18:22,832
before, uh,
the Malaysian came in

1179
01:18:22,866 --> 01:18:25,201
because, you know, the money
in the bank was going down,

1180
01:18:25,234 --> 01:18:27,170
and it was getting, "Uh, uh,
we're gonna run out,"

1181
01:18:27,203 --> 01:18:30,874
and then they came in
and then all the investor
put more money in it.

1182
01:18:30,907 --> 01:18:33,309
So now we're having actually
the longest runway

1183
01:18:33,342 --> 01:18:35,078
in front of us that we had ever.

1184
01:18:35,111 --> 01:18:37,180
* Have pleasure while we can

1185
01:18:37,213 --> 01:18:38,782
* Two three four

1186
01:18:38,815 --> 01:18:42,786
* Sha la la la la la
live for today *

1187
01:18:42,819 --> 01:18:46,289
* Sha la la la la la
live for today *

1188
01:18:46,322 --> 01:18:48,124
* And don't worry...

1189
01:18:48,157 --> 01:18:51,227
[speaking English]

1190
01:18:55,832 --> 01:18:59,002
You hear that?
That's a glowing recommendation.

1191
01:19:03,539 --> 01:19:09,012
* Baby, I need to feel you
inside of me *

1192
01:19:10,079 --> 01:19:13,316
* I got to feel you
deep inside of me *

1193
01:19:14,217 --> 01:19:18,454
* Baby, please come
close to me *

1194
01:19:18,487 --> 01:19:22,225
* I got to have you now
please please *

1195
01:19:22,258 --> 01:19:25,528
* Please please
gimme some a-lovin' *

1196
01:19:25,561 --> 01:19:27,363
* To gimme some a-lovin'

1197
01:19:27,396 --> 01:19:29,432
* To gimme some a-lovin'

1198
01:19:29,465 --> 01:19:31,134
* To gimme some a-lovin'

1199
01:19:31,167 --> 01:19:33,436
* Baby gimme some a-lovin'

1200
01:19:33,469 --> 01:19:35,371
* Gimme some a-lovin'

1201
01:19:35,404 --> 01:19:37,573
* Got to have all your lovin'

1202
01:19:37,606 --> 01:19:39,976
* Gimme some a-lovin'...

1203
01:19:40,009 --> 01:19:42,178
At current levels of financing?

1204
01:19:43,179 --> 01:19:45,781
Approximately the age
of the universe.

1205
01:19:50,086 --> 01:19:54,223
* Sha la la la la la
live for today *

1206
01:19:54,257 --> 01:19:57,827
* Sha la la la la la
live for today *

1207
01:19:57,861 --> 01:20:02,465
* And don't worry
'bout tomorrow, hey *

1208
01:20:02,498 --> 01:20:06,302
* Sha la la la la la
live for today *

1209
01:20:06,335 --> 01:20:10,206
* Sha la la la la la
live for today *