1 00:00:04,008 --> 00:00:07,008 Visit www.Hokibet99.cc Trusted Secure Online Gambling Agent 2 00:00:07,008 --> 00:00:10,000 New Member Bonus 500 Thousand 10 Million Cashback Parlay 3 00:00:10,008 --> 00:00:15,000 Sbobet Sportsbook Rolls 1.25% Maxbet Sportsbook Rolls 1.5% 4 00:00:15,008 --> 00:00:20,000 Rolls Live Casino Sbobet 338A 1% Rollingan Casino Live Maxbet 1.2% 5 00:00:20,008 --> 00:00:26,000 BBM: 2BFB0BCE LINE: HOKIBET99 6 00:00:26,008 --> 00:00:33,000 SINOPSIS: "Denial" (2016) is an English-American film with the Drama- genre Biography-History, director Mick Jackson, taken from the book by Deborah E. Lipstadt, "History on Trial: My Day in Court With a Holocaust Denier ". 7 00:00:33,008 --> 00:00:40,000 SINOPSIS [2]: This film tells of a legal dispute between two historians, namely Deborah Lipstadt (played by Rachel Weisz) and David Irving (played by Timothy Spall). 8 00:00:40,008 --> 00:00:47,000 SYNOPSIS [3]: Deborah claims David as a "Holocaust Denier". Feeling that he was defiled, David sued Deborah to a British court. In the British justice system, 9 00:00:47,008 --> 00:00:54,000 SINOPSIS [4]: ... the burden of proof is in the hands of the defendant. Therefore, Lipstandt with its legal team, trying to prove the truth that the "Holocaust" really happened. 10 00:00:54,008 --> 00:01:01,000 SYNOPSIS [5]: Deborah finally defeated David. The court found the fact that David had deliberately distorted history. Delivered by: www.subtitlecinema.com 11 00:01:06,008 --> 00:01:10,000 ~ • Based on Real Stories • ~ 12 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,566 I see no reason for interested in Auschwitz. 13 00:01:14,688 --> 00:01:15,480 ~ ~ ~ • [British historian: David Irving] • ~ ~ • [Calgary, Province of Alberta, Canada] • ~ 14 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,480 I tell you tasteless... ~ • [British historian: David Irving] • ~ ~ • [Calgary, Province of Alberta, Canada] • ~ 15 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:19,360 ... that more women die in the back seat... ~ • [British Historian: David Irving] • ~ ~ • [Calgary, Province of Alberta, Canada] • ~ 16 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,760 ... Senator Edward Kennedy 's car in Chappaquiddick... ~ • [British historian: David Irving] • ~ ~ • [Calgary, Province of Alberta, Canada] • ~ 17 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,411 ... than the one who was killed in the gas room at Auschwitz. ~ • [British Historian: David Irving] • ~ ~ • [Calgary, Province of Alberta, Canada] • ~ 18 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,120 Denial of the "Holocaust" is based on... [Holocaust = Ethnic slaughter (Jews)] 19 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,520 ... four basic statements. [Holocaust = Ethnic (Jewish) massacre] Number one. [Holocaust = Ethnic (Jewish) massacre] That there has never been an effort that is systematic or organized by the Nazis... 20 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:38,681 ... to kill all European Jews. 21 00:01:39,960 --> 00:01:43,806 Number two. 22 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:45,882 That number is far less than of five or six million people. 23 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:47,847 Number three. 24 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,925 That there is no gas chamber... 25 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:55,006 ... or specifically built destruction facilities. 26 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,206 Number four. 27 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,363 That is why "Holocaust" is a myth... 28 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:02,961 29 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,805 30 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,042 ... created by Jews... 31 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,043 ... to obtain financial compensation for themselves... 32 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,885 ... and then to benefit Israel State. 33 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:18,043 War, said the deniers, is a bloody business. 34 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:20,522 Nothing special to Jews, 35 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:22,841 ... they are not unique in their suffering. 36 00:02:22,920 --> 00:02:24,888 They are only ordinary victims of war . 37 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:26,405 Why bother? 38 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,727 OK, and here's another question, 39 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,090 ... how can we know that "Holocaust" happened? 40 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,566 Seriously. I asked. How do we prove it? 41 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:40,416 Proof of photography? 42 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,442 No one in this room or outside... 43 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,330 ... who ever saw a photo a Jew in a gas chamber. 44 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:46,606 Do you know why? 45 00:02:46,920 --> 00:02:49,366 Because Germany made sure that nothing was ever taken. 46 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:52,604 So how do we know? 47 00:02:53,920 --> 00:02:58,482 How can we know that so many are killed? 48 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,443 So what is the proof? Where is the proof? 49 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,689 How strong is that? 50 00:03:07,008 --> 00:03:12,000 Visit www.Hokibet99.cc Trusted Secure Online Gambling Agent 51 00:03:12,008 --> 00:03:18,000 Submitted by: www.subtitlecinema.com 52 00:03:18,008 --> 00:03:24,000 Wechat: HOKIBET99 Whatsapp: +66946538755 53 00:03:24,008 --> 00:03:30,000 BBM: 2BFB0BCE LINE: HOKIBET99 54 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,256 Good morning on Veterans Day, 55 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:37,044 ... the ceremony held today... 56 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:38,760 ... here in Washington and throughout the country. 57 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:40,404 Here, Mutt. I'm Bob Edwards. 58 00:03:40,404 --> 00:03:40,480 ~ ~ • [1994 ~ Atlanta, Georgia, USA] • ~ 59 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,640 Today Friday, November 11... ~ • [1994 ~ Atlanta, Georgia, United States] • ~ 60 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,888 ... and this is NPR Morning Edition. ~ • [1994 ~ Atlanta, Georgia, United States] • ~ 61 00:04:09,008 --> 00:04:12,288 ~ • ♥♥ "Denial" ♥♥ (2016) ♥♥ • ~ Universal Pictures & BBC Films ~ 01:50:32 Denial.2016.1080p.BluRay.x264- [YTS.AG] [https: / /yts.ag/movie/denial-2016] 62 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:15,816 - Morning, Professor Lipstadt. - Good morning 63 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:17,808 - Good morning, Professor. - Morning. 64 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,369 - Morning - Morning. 65 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,401 Speech. Two copies of with corrections. 66 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,050 And Jamie called from NBC. 67 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,242 They still want interview about the book. 68 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,051 This returns to the library. You make a copy. 69 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:31,849 OK. I will take this. 70 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:35,646 And he needs water. 71 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:37,840 - Do you want to hand with that? - I am fine. 72 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,576 And the Atlanta weather on this Veteran day, 73 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:44,568 ... mostly bright with clouds creeping... 74 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:46,409 ... until the end of this afternoon. 75 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:47,856 I did many of these events. 76 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:49,530 So if you can put the table behind. 77 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,086 Right in front of the door, uh, perfect as they left off. 78 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:53,730 Oh, I will. 79 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,247 Every writer will tell you, in this event... 80 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,368 ... you always sell 37 books. 81 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,007 No matter what size, uh, number of attendees. 82 00:05:09,280 --> 00:05:10,805 If it's 50 people, 37 books... 83 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,850 ... and I wonder, is it still? Do you think it's fixed? 84 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:15,331 Thank you very much, Deborah. 85 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,482 But I think it's better for us try something to start, huh? 86 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,327 Everything, I'm happy to introduce... 87 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,084 ... Chairman Dorot officials... 88 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:24,844 ... about Jews and the "Holocaust Studies"... 89 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:26,445 ... at Emory University... 90 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,490 ... and author "Denying the Holocaust"; 91 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,643 "The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory", 92 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:34,245 ... Deborah Lipstadt. 93 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,006 Whatever the reason these people become deniers, 94 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:44,605 ... when you look closely, 95 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,365 ... they often have agendas that they won't admit. 96 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,011 So the refusal is to choose to cancel the key... 97 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:51,929 ... to open the door for something else. 98 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:53,161 Yes. 99 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,208 Someone says you don't argue with people... 100 00:05:55,280 --> 00:05:57,169 ... which says "Holocaust" does not occur. 101 00:05:57,760 --> 00:05:58,816 Eh, that's right. 102 00:05:58,840 --> 00:06:01,844 Like I don't argue with people who say Elvis is still alive. 103 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,201 Talk to people who don't agree to, 104 00:06:05,280 --> 00:06:07,362 ... that's democracy, isn't it? 105 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:09,370 cowards if they don't talk to them. 106 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,204 Do you call me a coward? 107 00:06:11,280 --> 00:06:12,850 Wow... No, no, listen. 108 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:14,809 I... I don't see it like that. 109 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,121 You can argue about the "Holocaust". 110 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,441 You can argue about why it happened... 111 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:20,646 ... and how it happened. 112 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,963 But what I won't do is meet anyone, anyone, 113 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,008 ... who said that didn't happen. 114 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,006 Because "Holocaust" occurs. That has happened. 115 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,244 And that is not an opinion. That's a fact. 116 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:33,970 And I won't argue the facts. 117 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,090 In your book, why are you constantly... 118 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:37,924 ... demeaning work results David Irving? 119 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:39,929 He is a scholar. He found all kinds... 120 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:41,968 ... the main source that no one else knows. 121 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:43,280 Wow, honestly, 122 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,409 ... in my opinion I'm not humbling him. 123 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,608 Actually, I really don't think of him that much. 124 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:50,529 I think he is not worthy of my time. 125 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:54,850 Yes, sir. The father is behind. 126 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:56,046 Professor Lipstadt. 127 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,247 Eh, let me reveal something to you, Professor. 128 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,722 I am David Irving that you have treated so rudely. 129 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:05,844 Yes, yes, I'm the one who is based. 130 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,125 And that makes me confused... 131 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,766 ... which you think meets the requirements for attacking me, 132 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,287 ... given that I have 30 years of experience in archiving... 133 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:15,720 ... and my books have been published by... 134 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,286 ... some of the largest publishing houses in the world. 135 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,125 Viking Press, William Morrow, E.P. Dutton. 136 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:22,690 I have to conclude... 137 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:24,770 ... that your reason isn't involved... 138 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:26,211 ... with people you don't approve... 139 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,363 ... this is because you can't and you might learn some facts. 140 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,130 Facts, Miss Lipstadt, 141 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:32,964 ... that doesn't suit your opinion. 142 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,122 Wow? Bro? 143 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,123 Mr. Irving, I will not argue with you. 144 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,362 Not here. Not now. Will never. 145 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,249 So if you can, please just sit... 146 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:42,810 ... and you can go and talk... 147 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:44,325 ... in another room at another time. 148 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:46,010 You want students who are easily deceived to believe... 149 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:47,730 ... that there are document mounds... 150 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:49,484 ... which proves the "Holocaust". 151 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:51,722 You even said that Hitler had ordered that. 152 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,727 Wow, I have $ 1,000... 153 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,531 ... in my pocket. Yes, $ 1,000, 154 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,126 ... and I'm willing to give that $ 1,000... 155 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,806 ... to anyone, anyone, who can show me documents... 156 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,526 ... which proves that Hitler ordered the murder of Jews. 157 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,444 Here it is. This is not your Q & A. 158 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:11,329 You can go and talk elsewhere. 159 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:13,888 Who paid you to write your book? 160 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:15,530 I need someone from security. 161 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:17,576 Who finances all your expensive trips... 162 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,968 Sit down. Mr. Irving! Sit or please go. 163 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:23,160 Can you handle this person? 164 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:24,841 Okay, I'll take care. 165 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,890 Ah, Miss Lipstadt won't just not argue. 166 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:29,689 He calls security to stop me from arguing with him. 167 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:31,816 - No, leave it. Go. - I have you sit down. 168 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:33,330 So that's it. If people want, 169 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:35,243 ... I will sign my books after this event. 170 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:36,924 My books, all for free. 171 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:38,001 Come and get one. 172 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:43,047 Thank you. 173 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,282 $ 1,000! $ 1,000! 174 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,124 An actual historical example. 175 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:51,804 I hope you can advance education. 176 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:53,725 The real history is against... 177 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,531 ... sentimental engineering history . 178 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:05,480 Ah. 179 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,566 Today I heard you lie to students. 180 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:10,096 Speak in another room at a later time. 181 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,043 You want students who are easily deceived to believe... 182 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:13,326 Perfect. 183 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:26,096 Deborah, I'm glad you've called. 184 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:27,400 It's amazing to hear from you. 185 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:29,564 I suspect you have received our letter. 186 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:31,244 This is why I called. 187 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,176 Irving has just sent a notification of the lawsuit that will be submitted to the High Court... 188 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,123 ... because we have failed pulled the book. 189 00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:38,927 - High Court? - High Court in London. 190 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:40,331 This is a libel suit. 191 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,246 He says you're part of a conspiracy around the world together... 192 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,085 ... rob his reputation as a professional historian... 193 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,125 ... and thus the eyes of his livelihood. 194 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,009 I hope. 195 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:52,686 So what's the next step? 196 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,524 The next step, you tell us that you want to fight. 197 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,169 A crowd with 400 skinheads, neo-Nazis... 198 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:39,886 ... and supporters extreme right-wing groups. 199 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,167 British historian David Irving, 200 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,527 ... talking in German, is aimed at the masses... 201 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,136 ... tell them that Germany is no longer... 202 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:50,810 ... has something embarrassing. 203 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,491 Praising the representative of Hitler, Rudolf Hess, 204 00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:56,245 ... as a German hero and a martyr. 205 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:07,603 According to the proof I have seen, 206 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,680 ... there are no gas rooms anywhere in Auschwitz. 207 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,447 I deal with Auschwitz because it's a capital ship... 208 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,363 ... from the entire "Holocaust" campaign. 209 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,602 Now if Auschwitz sinks, and that, believe me, 210 00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:19,364 ... the ship is already very leaky, 211 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,411 ... then the entire "Holocaust" campaign is very doubtful. 212 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,843 - I've decided. I took it. - What? 213 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:33,531 Why did you let he touch you? 214 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,046 Nine of these ten things don't even go to court. 215 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,691 They cannot go to court because people determine. I can't set it. 216 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:40,723 Men are liars. Someone needs to say it. 217 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,246 What I don't understand, why did he choose you? 218 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:44,401 Know what I think? 219 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,726 I have two important qualifications for David Irving. 220 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,529 I am a woman and I am a Jew. 221 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:51,729 He gets more punches for his benefit. 222 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,531 So this is your book about denial which he objected to? 223 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:56,443 - Right. - Did you even mention Irving? 224 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:57,806 What did you say about him? 225 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,243 I think I call it partisan Hitler... 226 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:01,526 ... which deflects the evidence... 227 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,490 ... to reach historical conclusions that cannot be maintained. 228 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,804 Okay, wow, maybe you better make yourself as a legal advisor. 229 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:22,560 Here it is. 230 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,085 You must be Anthony Julius. 231 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:25,685 And you must be Deborah Lipstadt. 232 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:27,685 Please. 233 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,566 - Glad you have come so far. - With pleasure. 234 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:33,680 And it's good to combine our meeting with college. 235 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,960 Anti-Semitism in T.S. poetry. Eliot. [Anti-Semitism = Hostility, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews; Considered as a form of racism] 236 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:38,360 Yes, right. [Anti-Semitism = Hostility, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews; Regarded as a form of racism] 237 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,488 I look forward to hearing your speech. [Anti-Semitism = Hostility, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews; Regarded as a form of racism] 238 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:42,682 You're not afraid accept big kids. 239 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:43,921 I try not to be afraid. 240 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:45,081 Even I wonder... 241 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,407 ... if that's my interest in anti-Semitism... 242 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:49,960 ... which makes you consider me to represent you. 243 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,765 The fact is not. Or if that's Diana. 244 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:54,763 Eh, no. 245 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:56,964 Someone I know said to me, 246 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:58,280 "... you need junkyard... 247 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,169 "... and in England it is Anthony Julius. " in court. 248 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,083 Oh, wow, I'm afraid I didn't show up in court. 249 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,049 I prepare this case, I'm not present. advocate]... 250 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,122 ... two functions that are quite different. 251 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,328 And, uh, you mentioned "Hal Diana". I... 252 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:10,289 I don't know what that is. Is Princess of Wales. 253 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:11,680 254 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,850 255 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:17,771 256 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:20,360 257 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,044 Wow, yes, if I know that. 258 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,600 I don't know what the connection is Diana with this. 259 00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:26,409 Eh, no, just, hmm, 260 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:31,327 ... that Diana needs a divorce and I act for her. 261 00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:34,085 Do you represent it? 262 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:35,487 Yes, yes. 263 00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:38,245 But I think you did defamation. 264 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:39,776 Well, you're right. I... I... 265 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:41,245 ... I put that point on Diana herself. 266 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,130 I said, "I have never handled previous divorce cases". 267 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,646 And he said, "It's okay, Mr. Julius. 268 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,363 " I've never been divorced before ". 269 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:53,560 Interesting women. 270 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:55,976 Deborah, I have to warn you... 271 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,526 ... that there is a reason why he brought his case in London. 272 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:00,841 - I wonder about that. - Thank you very much. 273 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:02,206 You're welcome. 274 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,363 This is for the benefit. 275 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:05,566 Here in America, 276 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:07,608 ... uh, if you are accused of defame someone's name, 277 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:10,081 ... then it's up to them to prove that what you're saying is incorrect. 278 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:11,531 In the UK, the opposite is true. 279 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,762 Wait. I have to prove that the I said is true? 280 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,326 Mmm. Correct. Yes, but I am an innocent party. 281 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:17,966 Someone accuses you of something... 282 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,122 ... and it becomes your job to prove him wrong? 283 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,123 It violates natural justice. 284 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:23,896 In the United States there is a "presumption of innocence". 285 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:25,126 Yes, it doesn't exist in England. 286 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:28,521 complicated, right? 287 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:33,445 So what do you know about Mr. Irving? 288 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:35,523 Wow, I've read every word he wrote. 289 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,204 I know some personal questions. 290 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,284 His father left him when he was four years old. 291 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:41,096 He fell in love with Hitler when he was eight years old. 292 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,576 His brother said he used to run around the building that was bombed in London... 293 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,284 ... and during the bombing shouted, "Heil Hitler". 294 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,408 He learns himself. Very proud of that. 295 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,767 He learned German while working in a factory. 296 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,525 - I hear the language is perfect. - Yes. What do you think? 297 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:53,726 Sufficiently adequate. 298 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:55,768 He wants both ways, Mr. Irving. 299 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,320 He wants to be brilliant, unconventional, provocateurs... 300 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,562 ... coming and changing at all World War II. 301 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:02,563 But he also wants to be appreciated, 302 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,847 ... appreciated by his colleagues inside the club. 303 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,970 England is a club, Deborah, and she wants to join. 304 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:10,326 But he is an anti-Semitic. 305 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,609 You will be amazed how many military historians see it only as a detail. 306 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:15,040 They see it as a serious historian... 307 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,242 ... who happens to see things from Hitler's point of view. 308 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:18,440 Yes, but not in detail. 309 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,281 You know, I think it's in the center everything he thinks and does. 310 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:23,800 Likewise me. Yes. He is a liar and a forger of history. 311 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:25,848 Yes, and this might be opportunity to say that. 312 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,328 My mother named me Devorah. 313 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:31,686 You know what it means. 314 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:33,603 Leader. Defender of the people. 315 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:35,211 Fighters. 316 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,651 There are hopes when I was little. 317 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,121 My mother always says there will be events. 318 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,530 That I was chosen. I am elected. 319 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:49,685 Wow, here it is. 320 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,044 Good morning. I thought we were waiting. 321 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:08,000 ~ • Central London ~ 1998 • ~ 322 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,205 Gosh. Oh Ah. 323 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,403 Ah, yes, hello, nice to meet you. 324 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:17,687 I'm David Irving. 325 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,081 This, take Jessica, please. 326 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,811 Honey, Dad will just be busy for a while. 327 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:25,604 Here we are. A little treatment for you. 328 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:27,842 Yes, open it and... 329 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,969 What will this be? The red one. Ooh-oh-oh. 330 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:33,931 Honey. See you later. 331 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,682 You must, uh, bring it to me Miss Lipstadt's document. 332 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:39,886 Yes. 333 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,247 Those who become contribute to the analysis. 334 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,169 Full level of research. 335 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,004 You must represent it. 336 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,368 Yes. I'm James Libson and, uh, this is Miss Tyler. 337 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,760 ~ He is our paralegal. / ~ Paralegals of course. [Paralegal = Young lawyer / in training who does most of the lawyer's work] 338 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,208 David against Goliath, has begun. [Paralegal = Young lawyer / in training who does most of the lawyer's work] 339 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,368 You definitely work with, eh, Mr. The famous Julius? 340 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:00,680 Yes. 341 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,411 Will be an interesting meeting, don't you think so? 342 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:07,006 Interesting and exciting. 343 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,562 You see, like I saw, are academics against the rest. 344 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:12,802 Remember, that great historians... 345 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:14,848 ... never been an academic. We are outsiders. 346 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,766 Cato, Thucydides, Gibbon, Churchill... 347 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:20,691 I'm a very strong team in the field. 348 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:21,896 Maybe you want a cup of tea? 349 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,605 Eh, no thanks. Only one more thing before we leave. 350 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:26,926 You write a diary? 351 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:29,206 Yes, yes, hmm... 352 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,044 We want to apply to include the diary... 353 00:17:31,120 --> 00:17:32,849 ... in the discovery process. 354 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:34,401 Hmm. 355 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:36,806 You... You smile. 356 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,129 Wow, I'm not so like the possibility... 357 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,806 ... Miss Lipstadt examines my personal writings. 358 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,087 Oh no, no. Access will be limited to us, 359 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:45,525 ... our legal team only. 360 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:51,486 Come along. 361 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,451 I have kept a diary for 20 years. 362 00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:05,088 I promise, nothing is hidden. 363 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:09,326 But I doubt if even Goliath has the resources / strength... 364 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,842 ... to read between 10 to 20 million words. 365 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,256 And immediately can you see that maybe tonight, 366 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,965 ... eh, Gareth Southgate can be "peuyeum" from Rio, 367 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:41,963 ... because Villa leads 2-1... 368 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,691 ... at home to league leaders, Leeds United. 369 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:46,842 Let's get the latest now. Harry Gration. 370 00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:48,771 Yes, Ray, new century... 371 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:50,569 ... and miracles just happened. 372 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:52,244 Two goals from Gareth Southgate... 373 00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:53,800 ... has been given a Villa which is wealthy properly... 374 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,161 OK. That's five... 375 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,607 Yes. No, it's too much. I need... 376 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:09,806 - OK. - Fun. 377 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,486 - Have a nice day. Bye. - Congratulations, then. 378 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:26,684 Oh, thank you. 379 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:42,365 Ah, here it is! 380 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:44,010 Here it is. Client. Defendant. 381 00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:45,963 - Along the way from Atlanta. - Anthony. 382 00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:47,804 Are you sure you have enough people? 383 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:49,536 Wow, we will introduce you to everyone we visit. 384 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:51,767 But for now, everyone, introduce Deborah Lipstadt. 385 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:53,763 - Say good morning. - Morning, Deborah. 386 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:55,968 Morning. I, uh, Richard Evans. How are you? 387 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:57,486 - Hello. - How are you? 388 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,211 Richard is, uh, Professor Modern History at Cambridge. 389 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,011 Yes, I know. I know. I specifically ask. 390 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:04,241 Oh yes, of course. 391 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,051 Wow, uh, Richard will be one of the eight of our expert witnesses. 392 00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:09,202 Nice to meet you. It's an honor. 393 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,121 Anthony. Is that something... 394 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,042 Is that the note from Princess? 395 00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:19,771 Eh, yes, yes, he, yes, yes. 396 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:22,289 Look forward to results similar to yours. 397 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,249 You want to do it for the "Holocaust deniers"... 398 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:25,685 ... what have you done for the monarchy? 399 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,531 Hmm... Yes. Something like that. 400 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:30,611 Wow, I think we have to sue... 401 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,002 ... that David Irving is not a true historian. 402 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:35,806 Oh right. Wow, 403 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:37,490 ... we will make sure to take it on board. 404 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:39,240 Thank you very much. 405 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,324 James. James will talk to you according to the legal options available. 406 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,562 I, uh... I'm James Libson. I work with Anthony. 407 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:46,523 We already talked. Yes, Yes, Yes. Continue. 408 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,096 So usually there are, uh, three ways or ways... 409 00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:51,327 ... every slander suit can take it, okay? 410 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,926 So, first of all, you can argue that... 411 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,321 ... Irving has misinterpreted the offensive words. 412 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,496 Mmm-hmm. However, because at one point in your book... 413 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,002 ... you said Irving seemed to impregnate himself to continue Hitler's work, 414 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:03,976 ... I think that we can't say he misinterpreted something. 415 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:05,286 I don't think we can. 416 00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:06,691 We can also take second path, 417 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,888 ... which will only say that offensive words... 418 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:10,610 ... don't attack as Irving understands. 419 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:12,896 - Oh, we can't take that path. - No, it hurts. 420 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:14,888 I hope so. God knows I have tried. 421 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,010 Yes. So it's really just leaving us with this one choice. 422 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:19,605 We call it atomic bomb defense. 423 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,091 That is what we will use. 424 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:22,605 We ask for justification. 425 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,967 So even if the words are defamatory, 426 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:26,849 ... that's still true too. 427 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:28,976 Enough. Not every word. It doesn't have to be every word. 428 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:30,776 We can get some things that are wrong. But we have to prove, 429 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,450 ... what we call "sting" from the slander. 430 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,211 We argue that Irving deliberately backs the truth... 431 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:36,964 ... in order to spread anti-Semitism... 432 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:38,963 ... and cause sympathy in the Third Reich. 433 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:41,816 - More coffee? - No, thank you. 434 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,365 - Yes. - Hmm... 435 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,496 We still have special problems that we face in the UK... 436 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,171 ... that the burden of proof lies with the defendant. 437 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,096 Hmmm, I want you to listen to Laura. Have you met Laura? 438 00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:51,360 - Miss Lipstadt. - Hello. 439 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,762 Eh, Laura is 23 years old. Eh, that's the first case. 440 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,366 We just discussed that point. Attack, Laura. 441 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,523 We feel... Anthony feels, strangely in this case, 442 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,011 ... the uniqueness of English law... 443 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,082 -... really works for our benefit. - Yes. Say it 444 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,010 The first reaction of everyone... 445 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:07,764 ... when they hear about this trial is a horror [horrible]. 446 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:09,330 Others like disbelief. I mean, 447 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,880 ... courts must be a bad place to judge history. 448 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:13,644 I have to agree, as a historian. 449 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,449 They say, "My God, are you serious? 450 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,131 " You sit in court and some arrogant English judges... 451 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:19,850 "... based on the rules, does the" Holocaust "occur?" 452 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,367 And let's think about this. What if we lose? Huh? 453 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,284 Suddenly becomes acceptable, becomes honorable... 454 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:27,850 ... say "Holocaust" does not happen? 455 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,366 Does anyone think of what that means? 456 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,841 But the amazing thing is, you see, if we play this right, 457 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,240 ... it won't make Irving bring the "Holocaust" to court. 458 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,288 No. This will make us _ make Irving on trial. 459 00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:38,361 Laura's rights. Thank you. 460 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,920 Laura is very audible on this. And if we focus on his lies, 461 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,968 ... and, just as important, the motives lie, 462 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,931 ... there is absolutely no reason we should produce eyewitnesses to this horror. 463 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:50,576 Wait a minute. What do you mean, 464 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,046 ... that the victim will not appear? 465 00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:55,043 No, no, no. No, we don't want them. 466 00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:56,256 You don't want their testimony? 467 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:57,496 No. In situations that do not support. 468 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,488 Why not? Why can not? 469 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,403 Because even for let the victim appear... 470 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,131 ... will legitimize the rights to ask them. 471 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:10,610 May I say something... 472 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,286 ... before you go further with this strategy? 473 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:14,800 Yes, please. 474 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,086 You once told me that this trial might have implications... 475 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:19,810 ... on the whole Jews. 476 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,926 Now you say that you won't let the Jews talk? 477 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,096 Right, I will explain basic thoughts... 478 00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:25,216 ... that way you can understand the rationale. 479 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,891 Yes, please, I will be happy understand that thought. 480 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:29,280 We believe that Irving is planning... 481 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,721 ... to become what we call litigate personally. 482 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:34,364 He plans to direct his own case. 483 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:35,576 What do you mean? He doesn't hire a lawyer? 484 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,047 No, that will only be him. Imagine that. 485 00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:41,009 David Irving, international denier "Holocaust", 486 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,401 ... finally got his hand on the survivor. Imagine that. 487 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,611 Wounds, pain. Damage. Insult. 488 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,336 This is unthinkable. He won't get that. 489 00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:50,056 I won't leave that. I won't let that happen. 490 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,242 What will you allow? 491 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,128 He keeps a diary. He has done it for years. 492 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:57,376 He told us nothing was hidden, 493 00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,767 ... but we still have to communicate him to get it. 494 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,926 What, have you talked with him personally? 495 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,968 Yes, yes, we talked. 496 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,123 Deborah, the first rule of a good defense is a strong attack. 497 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:09,640 First rule? The first rule of the trial process, 498 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,284 ... are you demanding or defending, 499 00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:13,249 ... always run your case YOU are the one who demands. 500 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,209 This is a good rule. So that's why Laura... 501 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,971 ... lead the research group here. They joined last week. 502 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:19,976 And they will do sweeping through all diaries, 503 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,536 ... uh, lock specifically contacts with right-wing groups. 504 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,609 Neo-Nazis, skinheads, anti-Semites, SS awakening groups, 505 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,205 ... all kinds of various kinds of shit. 506 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,040 And, just as important, Professor Evans is here, 507 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,526 ... with him, hmm, two people a qualified graduate student, 508 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,888 ... Nik Wachsman and Thomas, uh... 509 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,006 ... Thomas Skelton-Robinson. 510 00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:39,856 My group will do historiography. 511 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,690 Check every word published that Irving has written. 512 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:44,842 Check the source, compare editions. 513 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,486 Generally testing the reliability of its history. 514 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,324 You can't imagine the pleasure we will experience. 515 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,336 We will end up with an inaccurate lawsuit... 516 00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:53,727 ... along your arm. Error after error. 517 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,531 We think it will take about one year. Full time. 518 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,401 Wow, I'm glad that you are willing to handle it. 519 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,761 We are indeed aiming to do it. 520 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,603 Okay, wow, thank you very much, all. 521 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,085 As you know, uh, 522 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,089 ... we have planned do everything for free. 523 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,806 But considering the possibility extends the scale of various things, 524 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,770 ... I think we might need to review questions about costs. 525 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,887 Of course, if we lose, 526 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,684 ... hikum firm will be happy bear the cost. 527 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,001 But we will need some support. 528 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,047 So you let me do something? 529 00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:35,327 Hmm, can I raise funds? 530 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:36,721 Eh... 531 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,962 Yes, yes, if, hmm... 532 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,131 Whatever you can do. 533 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:50,649 I think the people here have an interest in the trial. 534 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,082 People are very interested support you. 535 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,206 Mmm-hmm. I am glad to hear that. 536 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,963 But we are also interested knowing what you think. 537 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,647 Mr. Julius is a very brilliant young man. 538 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:04,767 He is brilliant. 539 00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:08,010 - Can we speak frankly? - Please, please. 540 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:13,482 There... there is a kind of fear that you might have fallen under the spell. 541 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:15,850 You won't be the first woman... 542 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,684 ... become interested in his intellectual. 543 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:20,327 Diana. 544 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,690 So far, I've improved, hmm, most of my dances are back. 545 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,288 - Is that easy? - That's not difficult. 546 00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:34,930 Not as difficult as in London, what are you saying? 547 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,287 There is a principle and I have been stuck for that. 548 00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:39,567 There is no single source of finance. 549 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,845 There is one person, he offers pay for all financing. 550 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,926 But when the history of this moment comes it's time to write, 551 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,931 ... I think it's important that many people give, not just one. 552 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:52,371 You talk about history. 553 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:54,450 See it from our point of view. 554 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,648 We live with David Irving. He's English. 555 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:58,041 And he is like that. 556 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:00,121 What will the trial do? 557 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:01,884 The trial will give him a new lease of life. 558 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:03,646 Wow, I can't help that... 559 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,370 ... because I'm not the one who demands. 560 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:06,441 - He did it. - No, 561 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,296 ... but you can prevent everything from happening. 562 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:09,760 - How will I do it? - Just arrange it. 563 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:13,846 I mean it. 564 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,605 Sign several documents. Is that so terrible? 565 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,409 He will never give Auschwitz to you, that's okay, 566 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,643 ... but, then, he... He is David Irving. 567 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:24,767 We have lived worse. 568 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:26,604 And what do you want to be strong? 569 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,008 Four million people die? Three? One? 570 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:30,889 Will that number make you feel comfortable? 571 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,043 Here in England, you might like to be calm, but I don't. 572 00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:37,376 I think you don't need to have to use the word "pacification". 573 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:38,811 No? Then what words should I use? 574 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,248 Everything we say, beware of Anthony Julius. 575 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,406 He does all these things for his own sake. 576 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:47,650 Other women have been in their pockets... 577 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,484 ... and knowing that it's is not a comfortable place. 578 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,927 Oh, wow, if that bag is we are talking about, 579 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,049 ... maybe you can explain why England is so difficult to open. 580 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,960 Estimated area for the next 24 hours. 581 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,285 Vikings, North and South Utsire, 40. 582 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:10,921 Southwestern direction, turns to the northwest, 583 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,681 ... storms scale 6 to 8, may be a severe storm on scale 9 later. 584 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,650 Rain, cold rain, medium or full... 585 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:40,850 I experienced hell last night. 586 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,048 I can't sleep. IAM very angry. 587 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:44,281 Really? Why? 588 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,522 I had dinner last night along with some... 589 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,443 ... leader of the Jewish community. 590 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,648 Oh, community, huh? 591 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,920 And does the community tell you that is better if you leave this case? 592 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,644 I defend you. 593 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,131 I'm sure you did a very good job. 594 00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:58,884 Maybe you have to deal with it professionally. 595 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,091 They think you are taking these things for your own glory. 596 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,891 Glory? Gosh. I don't think glory. 597 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,486 Glory? Interesting. So do they feed you? 598 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,803 - I don't understand this, really. - Oh, here it is. 599 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,885 Richard Rampton, Deborah Lipstadt. 600 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:17,200 Ah! 601 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,244 "This is the creator of our misfortune". 602 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:20,930 Please, please, please enter. 603 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:22,525 Enter and warm yourself. 604 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:23,931 - Hi. - Hello. 605 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,570 Richard will be your primary adviser. 606 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:26,976 I've explained to Deborah is a difference... 607 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,365 ... between "barristers" [lawyers / advocates] and "solicitors" [agency law officials]. 608 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,411 Our legal system seems to be banned but it works, I think. 609 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,006 If your legal system functions, I won't face this mess. 610 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:35,650 I don't mind Dickens, 611 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,684 ... Kafkaesque is what I'm worried about. 612 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,403 And this is a legal advisor our juniors, Heather Rogers. 613 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:43,686 - How are you? - Hello, Heather. 614 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,450 Look, I've been... I just opened... 615 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,284 ... this bottle of red wine. 616 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:48,566 I hope you don't mind plastic? 617 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,409 No, Richard, I won't drink. 618 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,448 I haven't eaten. And Deborah hasn't slept yet. 619 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,130 No, I'll taste the wine. Why not? 620 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:55,929 Everything else is decided for me. 621 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,409 Yes, so Heather and I have introduced myself to the subject. 622 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,485 Hmm. I can see that. A small reading lamp. 623 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,245 Oh, is this you? 624 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:09,560 Do you catch fish? 625 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:11,885 Yes. 626 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:15,404 And what is your German language? 627 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,245 Ah, you see? Just like a lawyer. 628 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:18,651 Jump to my weak point. 629 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,486 Hmm, wow, I know the libretto to Magic Flute. 630 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,291 That, uh... That's all the German language I have. 631 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,170 This may not be very useful in our upcoming meeting. 632 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:28,240 Anyway, cheers. 633 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:29,281 Cheers. 634 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:31,926 Cheers, Heather. 635 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,683 Yes, I will get with my Life of Mozart, 636 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,004 -... but I have to postpone it. - Again, again. 637 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,686 Richard is the most skilled advocate in this country. 638 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,046 I don't mind saying that. 639 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,090 Yes, well, in this case I hope I... 640 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,807 I hope I think skills are enough. 641 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:50,960 What else do you need? 642 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,444 A rarer quality. 643 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:55,286 For example? 644 00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,091 Desires / desires [Appetite for eating? ] 645 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,447 Obviously, I should go to Auschwitz... 646 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,524 ... and I will be very grateful if you are willing to accompany me. 647 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,090 What do you need to go to Auschwitz? 648 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:12,325 Legal reasons. 649 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,091 Has he arrived? 650 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,367 He wants us here, but he himself does not appear. 651 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,205 He's late, that's all. He is often late. 652 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:35,645 Is he too late to court? 653 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,160 Morning, everything. 654 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,761 - Are you definitely Professor Van Pelt? - Correct. 655 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,968 Good. So, uh, let's start working. 656 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:19,645 Heather. Deborah. 657 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,045 I suggest we start with take a walk... 658 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:23,724 ... around the perimeter fence. 659 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:24,801 Yes, I just did it. 660 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,531 Good. Then let's take a look at the plan. Omer? 661 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,125 I want you to understand the scale of operation. 662 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:34,936 What we are looking for here is one of the biggest... 663 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:36,896 ... and the most efficient killing machine in human history. 664 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,256 Yes. Yes, we know what that is. How do we prove that, 665 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:40,416 ... that's what attracted us. 666 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,728 We are not here for pilgrimage, we prepare cases. 667 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:45,325 OK. 668 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,524 These are remnants of Crematorium II. 669 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,171 Accidental buildings destroyed by Germany... 670 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,208 ... in the fall of 1944... 671 00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,487 ... to destroy proof of their actions here. 672 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,365 They dynamite it again... 673 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,608 ... a week before the war ended. 674 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,802 These steps point down into the undressing room. 675 00:34:20,240 --> 00:34:21,526 Olére's picture, please. 676 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,802 David Olére is a French artist. A survivor. 677 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,326 He is able to draw many things he sees here. 678 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,883 He made an image this setting here. 679 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,322 These are steps in the picture. 680 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:47,764 Then they are directed through here, 681 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,650 ... pass an sign that says, "To the Bathroom"... 682 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,160 ... and to the gas room... 683 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:56,560 Here. 684 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,048 Pay attention to your steps. Be careful. 685 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,325 This is a temple. 686 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:13,451 What we stand here... 687 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,444 ... are all left from the gas room itself. 688 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,124 This was the roof. 689 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:31,524 That room is right down here. 690 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:32,886 Under our feet. 691 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:44,046 Locked doors and cyanide crystals, Zyklon-B, 692 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,811 ... poured into them through holes in the roof. 693 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,164 One, two, three, four. 694 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,808 Ow! Damn. 695 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:18,766 This... It's okay. 696 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,366 Now here is the space for flea eradication. 697 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,250 Typhus is a terrible problem in the camp... 698 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,085 ... and the bugs / parasites that carry it must be destroyed. 699 00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:58,400 Right, now we get there. 700 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,687 So we need to talk about Leuchter. 701 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:02,683 - Yes, I came to Leuchter. - Yes. 702 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,890 This building is used to probe prisoner clothes. 703 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,247 They also use Zyklon-B for that. 704 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,049 To kill fleas / parasites. 705 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,402 - We know that? - Yes. 706 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,610 To be sure? Do you have proof? 707 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:20,409 We cannot take something to give. 708 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:21,527 I need to see evidence. 709 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,170 Yes, I can provide evidence. 710 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,207 However, in February 1988, 711 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:31,330 ... a "Holocaust Denier" named Ernst Zundel sent Fred Leuchter, 712 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,644 ... an engineer and execution expert from America, 713 00:37:35,720 --> 00:37:37,449 ... to test various parts of the camp... 714 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,091 ... look for evidence of toxic gas in bricks. 715 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,925 Trace of hydrogen cyanide, HCN. 716 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,129 Blue stains here... 717 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:48,806 ... and here. 718 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:50,530 He comes with a chisel? 719 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:52,086 That's right. 720 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,208 - And he lunged away... - Right. 721 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,009 ... illegally, without any permission... 722 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:57,570 ... from the authorities, 723 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,521 ... and then he smuggled pieces of from Poland in his suitcase, 724 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:03,125 ... wrapped in dirty clothes. 725 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,931 So that might be the case. We can criticize the method, 726 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,128 ... but that is the conclusion that we have discredited. 727 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,688 He found levels higher than HCN... 728 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:12,364 ... here in the sacred hall... 729 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,647 ... compared to the findings in the gas chambers themselves. 730 00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:16,245 From this he concludes that... 731 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,448 ... no human being was killed at Auschwitz. 732 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,729 Only... Only lice die. 733 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,048 Why do we talk about Leuchter? 734 00:38:25,240 --> 00:38:27,641 I mean, he really doesn't deserve the paper he wrote. 735 00:38:27,720 --> 00:38:29,802 Wow, so you say. Now say why. 736 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:31,211 I will tell you why. 737 00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:34,040 Because of course there are higher concentrations here. 738 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,526 It takes 20 times more cyanide... 739 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,046 ... to kill fleas than kill humans. 740 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,930 Twenty times! Only Leuchter did not know that. 741 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,489 Oh, all this sucks. 742 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,403 I know. This is a beggar of faith. 743 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,403 Why are there no proper scientific studies in this site? 744 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,164 By leading scientists? 745 00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:54,004 Fifty years since the incident? 746 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,002 I mean, that's ridiculous. 747 00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,287 Where is the proof? Where is the proof? 748 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:00,486 I need to know that. 749 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,722 Do you know what? This is a place you show respect. 750 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:04,848 Whoever you are, you show respect. 751 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,445 I have to ask some questions. 752 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:07,965 Will you be happier outside? 753 00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:11,240 What is the proof there... 754 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,009 ... that Leuchter's conclusion is wrong? 755 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,205 I think we won't try the "Holocaust". 756 00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:23,849 No. I think we won't argue, 757 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:25,206 "Does the" Holocaust "happen?" 758 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:26,520 That's what we approve of, Heather. 759 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,090 That's what we agree on. 760 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:31,930 He asks the question, that's all. 761 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:33,809 He must ask questions. 762 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,085 This is not about perpetuating warnings, 763 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:38,685 ... it's about forensics. 764 00:39:40,008 --> 00:39:46,000 Visit www.Hokibet99.cc Trusted Secure Online Gambling Agent 765 00:39:47,008 --> 00:39:53,000 Submitted by: www.subtitlecinema.com 766 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:09,041 God is full of compassion that is at height, 767 00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:14,689 ... provides complete rest on the wings of this Divine Presence, 768 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,926 ... in the holy realm, pure and noble... 769 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:19,525 Pure and noble, 770 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:23,127 ... that shines like a sky. 771 00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,044 I, hmm, will buy you a drink. 772 00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:01,490 I think you might need it. 773 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,291 Thank you. I think I'm thirsty. 774 00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:08,969 Do you get what you want from that visit? 775 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,290 Deborah, you don't have to characterize me... 776 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:14,805 ... as feelingless. 777 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,000 - I have a feeling. - What did you feel today? 778 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:21,126 Oh 779 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:26,125 Embarrassing. 780 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,605 I have a terrible fear this that if I have been ordered... 781 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,126 ... to do some things that we see today... 782 00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:37,366 That I will agree. 783 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,165 Apart from weakness. 784 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,409 Wow, that's the most honest thing you say. 785 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,290 Wow, that's how it is. This world is full of cowards... 786 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,045 ... and I always experience this nervous feeling that... 787 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:49,645 That I am one of them. 788 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:52,250 There is this line from Goethe, 789 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,530 "Der Fiege nur, wo er sicher ist." 790 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,888 That means, "Coward only threatens... 791 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:02,485 " When he feels safe. " 792 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,840 - I think you don't speak German. - Hmm. 793 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,287 You learned German last year? 794 00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,761 = = Wow, I have to master all these documents. 795 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:12,842 Irving has 40 years ahead of me, 796 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:14,001 ... so I have to catch up. 797 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:15,161 Can you chase it? 798 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:17,809 No. 799 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,364 You know, you haven't taken my statement. 800 00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,489 - No. No, I... - Why is that? 801 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,280 No. Why? Anthony doesn't talk to you? 802 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:39,522 Wow, hmm, we have made a number of decisions. 803 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:44,403 Eh, the first is that we don't want to put this case in the jury. 804 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,881 We thought it would be safer to put it in the judge. 805 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:49,411 - A single judge? - Yes. 806 00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:51,727 What, everything was decided by one person? 807 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:53,245 Is that a good idea? 808 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,209 Wow, we are worried about the type of jump... 809 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,687 ... maybe Irving woke up to attend 12 judges. 810 00:43:57,760 --> 00:43:59,524 I'm surprised that it's our choice. 811 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,080 Wow, it's not. He agreed. 812 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:03,640 Why did he do it? 813 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:06,450 We have an idea. 814 00:44:07,240 --> 00:44:08,366 Mmm. 815 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,368 - And what else? - What? 816 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,090 Wow, you said some decisions. 817 00:44:14,720 --> 00:44:16,404 Yes, wow, hmm... 818 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,526 We decided, Anthony and me, that, hmm, 819 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,723 ... will be better if you don't testify. 820 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,090 - What? - Wow, that's all. We... 821 00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:33,842 We don't believe that you should testify. 822 00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:36,411 Why? 823 00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,331 - Because you don't trust me? - No. No, not at all. 824 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,084 Do you think I'm going to be emotional? 825 00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,284 Wow, me... After today... 826 00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,727 Richard, we've been to Auschwitz. 827 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:50,727 Let me remind you that I teach, 828 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:52,370 ... I give lectures, I talk to the press... 829 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,169 I know. I issued the idea. 830 00:44:54,240 --> 00:44:55,890 That's what I did. That's what I did well. 831 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:57,530 You... You don't need to protect me. 832 00:44:57,600 --> 00:44:59,125 No, we don't protect you. 833 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:00,804 We protect our case. 834 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:05,844 Our strategy is to stay focused on Irving and Irving alone. 835 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:09,010 This is not a test of your credibility, it is a test of its credibility. 836 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:10,976 You think I'm not good enough. 837 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,048 No, no, no. I didn't say it at all. 838 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:17,126 Everything you have to say, have you said in your book. 839 00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,884 Our task is to make Irving starve, 840 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,645 ... and put you in the witness box that will feed him. 841 00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:26,642 This case happened to you, 842 00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:28,325 ... but it's not about you. 843 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,085 This person hates me. He came for me. 844 00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:32,924 And when someone comes to follow you, 845 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:34,485 ... you took them. 846 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:40,964 Do you know what people will say? 847 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,049 Yes, I think I know. They will say I'm a coward. 848 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:45,576 That I was too scared of to go up to the pulpit... 849 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:46,976 -... because I think I'll lose. - Yes. 850 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,321 That's what they will say. And do you want me to live with that? 851 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,130 This is the price you must pay to win. 852 00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,010 Eh, only one question, sir. 853 00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:04,081 What is that? 854 00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:05,407 Eh, on our side, 855 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,562 ... we began to feel that for laymen... 856 00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:09,722 ... certain subjects may represent... 857 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:11,211 ... an impossible challenge. 858 00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,845 I know. Are you asking to throw out the jury? We have already done it. 859 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,048 Have you ever asked Mr. Irving regarding his view? 860 00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,168 Mr. Irving? Wow, hmm... 861 00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:22,605 Maybe before Mr. Irving is talking? 862 00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:23,886 Yes, continue. 863 00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,888 We all know Mr. Irving has dedicated his life... 864 00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:29,883 ... to study the Third Reich. 865 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,647 I admit to myself sometimes struggle... 866 00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:34,006 ... with material needs. 867 00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,003 I want to know if Mr. Irving really believes it's fair... 868 00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,163 ... to ask ordinary people Joe or Joan who walk the streets... 869 00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:40,571 ... to understand in just a few weeks... 870 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,405 ... what he himself has spent a lifetime to master. 871 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:49,606 I agree. 872 00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,251 Problems before the court are quite complex... 873 00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:56,162 ... requires attention from a judge who understands, 874 00:46:56,240 --> 00:46:58,811 ... and too complex when faced by a jury. 875 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:01,650 Are you sure, Mr. Irving? 876 00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:05,046 Pretty sure. 877 00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,082 Trial by a single judge, then. 878 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:10,005 Thank you very much, sir. 879 00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,096 This morning we will see the beginning... 880 00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:36,770 ... from extraordinary cases where... 881 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,336 ... questioning evidence for mass killings of Jews... 882 00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:40,776 ... at Auschwitz during World War II. 883 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:42,768 Includes film director, Steven Spielberg, 884 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,042 ... pay to the defendant Miss Lipstadt. 885 00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:47,043 Mr. Irving is rumored to have... 886 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,600 ... lists around 4,000 contributors... 887 00:47:49,720 --> 00:47:51,882 ... Miss Lipstadt's book, where she refers... 888 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,770 ... Mr. Irving as a "Holocaust denier". 889 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:56,890 Morning, Deborah. Morning. 890 00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:58,246 I don't want you go alone. 891 00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,084 - Your sweetness. - This is not sweet at all. 892 00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:01,616 I just want to make sure you don't talk. 893 00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,086 This is a short statement. No, no, no. Through this way. 894 00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:05,730 - Come on. - Professor! 895 00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,482 Julie McCarthy, NPR. Brief statement. 896 00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:10,324 We need to hear your voice. 897 00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,730 This is Julie McCarthy, NPR. We need to hear your voice. 898 00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:15,962 - Only a short statement. - Jewish bitch is a liar! 899 00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,162 Do you think it's all done with Hitler? No. 900 00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:20,811 We know which hotel you stayed at. We know your room. 901 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,406 You think you're safe. Wow, you're not safe. 902 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,128 Morning. Morning all. Morning all. 903 00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:42,601 Good morning everyone. I look forward to all this. 904 00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:44,011 Can I say a few words? 905 00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:45,801 Wow, obviously... 906 00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,216 Do you see that? He will be the whole front page. 907 00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:57,323 Deborah, there is only one person who is important and that is a judge. 908 00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:59,496 If you don't speak in court and you just talk to the press, 909 00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,602 ... the judge will become angry and with just cause. 910 00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:03,842 And we both know what will solve the problem. 911 00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,930 Another thing. You jog through the same road every day. 912 00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:09,641 Don't. 913 00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:12,568 What are you saying? I said nothing. 914 00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:14,802 I just say, vary your jogging route. Come on. 915 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:16,006 Varying my jogging route? 916 00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:17,411 Accompany him. 917 00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:19,736 What, do you think can you get away with that? 918 00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:21,569 Let's follow order! 919 00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:23,608 Please. Press in public gallery. 920 00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:25,256 Two lines in front. Take the door on the left. 921 00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:26,805 - Hello, Nik. - Janet. 922 00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,451 General upstairs. The general public upstairs. thanks. 923 00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:31,090 Let the defendant pass, please. 924 00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,288 - Over here, Miss Lipstadt. - Thank you, Clive. 925 00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,291 - They are excited. - Yes. 926 00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:40,602 - How are you? Is it ok? - Fine. 927 00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:42,441 Just skip here. 928 00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:48,250 - Is this me? - This is you. 929 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:50,923 Good morning. Good morning. 930 00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:57,216 - Pagi, Mr. Irving. - Good morning. 931 00:49:57,240 --> 00:49:58,536 - Good morning. - Morning. 932 00:49:58,560 --> 00:49:59,856 Good morning. Good morning. 933 00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:01,041 Morning. 934 00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:07,683 Good morning. I'll just take it for you. 935 00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:08,841 Thank you. This is it. 936 00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,849 As advertised. David and Goliath. 937 00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:22,646 They are ready, Your Honor. 938 00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:55,330 Calm down! 939 00:50:56,240 --> 00:50:57,651 The trial opens! 940 00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:01,881 Head down. 941 00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:03,803 - Head down. - I'm American. 942 00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:05,770 All other things but don't bow your head. 943 00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:18,201 Your Majesty... 944 00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:23,090 ... I intend to show that far from is a denial of "Holocaust", 945 00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:24,844 ... I have repeatedly attracted attention... 946 00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,810 ... for the main aspects "Holocaust". 947 00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:31,600 This defendant has committed very real damage... 948 00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:33,762 ... against my professional existence. 949 00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,605 Based on activities Miss Lipstadt... 950 00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:39,445 ... and those who have funded it and guide their hands, 951 00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:41,443 ... since 1996... 952 00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:45,570 ... I have seen one publisher fear after the others move away from me... 953 00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,120 ... and they turn away when I approach. 954 00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:50,841 Your Majesty, 955 00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:54,286 ... if we search for the title of this defamation action, 956 00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:58,001 ... I dare suggest Images on an Execution. 957 00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:00,211 Execute me. 958 00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:06,727 The word "denier" is very evil. 959 00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:08,610 For selected victims... 960 00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,887 ... it is like calling a wife hitter or pedophile. 961 00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,360 This is enough to label the attached ... 962 00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,410 ... for designated pariahs, 963 00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:22,802 ... outcasts from normal society. 964 00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:30,248 This is the "Yellow Star" statement. [Five yellow stars as a stamp for Jews] 965 00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:33,525 So what do you think about him? 966 00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,080 I thought he was a strange freak. aren't you? 967 00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:37,366 Wow, did you enjoy it? 968 00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,044 Look, that's it. Look, he's still. 969 00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,204 That is confusing. Looks like he already knows all our questions. 970 00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:44,600 Wow, yes, of course he knows. We send our questions to him. 971 00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:48,410 What? Did you send it to us our question first? What... 972 00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,323 Why do you give our strategy? 973 00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:53,368 Deborah, there is no strategy. 974 00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:56,248 We will box him with the truth. 975 00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:58,845 Your Majesty, 976 00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:02,606 Mr. Irving calls himself a historian. 977 00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:06,683 The truth is, however, that he is not a historian at all. 978 00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,442 He is a forgery of history. 979 00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:14,283 Frankly, he is a liar. 980 00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:18,248 Now, between publications... 981 00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,802 ... from the first edition of the book "Hitler's War" in 1977, 982 00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,845 ... and the second edition in 1991, 983 00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,241 ... Mr.'s view Irving about "Holocaust"... 984 00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:29,800 ... experience fundamental changes. 985 00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:33,126 In the 1977 version, 986 00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:37,808 ... he accepted it as truth history in all its essence. 987 00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:41,089 But in the 1991 edition, 988 00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,600 ... all traces of "Holocaust" disappear. 989 00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:52,765 So, what is the reason for the change in this shocking perspective? 990 00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,766 Wow, the reason the principle can be stated... 991 00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:59,083 ... in one word, "Leuchter". 992 00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:00,521 Hmm. 993 00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:05,049 Now, according to Mr. Irving, Leuchter's report is, 994 00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:06,929 "The biggest caliber shell... 995 00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:10,129 "... who attacks Auschwitz warships. " 996 00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,442 Unfortunately for Mr. Irving, 997 00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:16,531 ... Leuchter's report is nonsense and he knows that. 998 00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:18,923 So why is Mr. Irving... 999 00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:22,607 ... embracing the Leuchter report eagerly like that? 1000 00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:24,808 Why did he choose to self-publish... 1001 00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:26,609 ... and even write the introduction ? 1002 00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:31,003 Wow, the answer is definitely... 1003 00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:33,122 ... that he wants to be TRUE. 1004 00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:37,601 Besides all that, if "Holocaust" does not happen, 1005 00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:41,401 ... Hitler can't order or know that. 1006 00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:42,970 And that's the point. 1007 00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:47,361 Shh. Please. Please, just... 1008 00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:49,090 That is a very good start. 1009 00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:50,366 Mmm, I'm glad that you're happy. 1010 00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:52,442 I see his face when you call him a liar. 1011 00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:54,602 I thought he was unusual heard things like that. 1012 00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:57,047 - No, I don't think he's like that. - Excuse me. Miss Lipstadt? 1013 00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,090 Yes, that's me. Can I talk to you? 1014 00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:02,766 Yes. Hmm, can you give us for a moment, please? 1015 00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,250 I want you to come and meet some of my friends. 1016 00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:12,048 Friends with something ordinary. 1017 00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:20,041 Do you want to sit down? 1018 00:55:25,720 --> 00:55:28,564 We want to know, how can you let this happen? 1019 00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,406 None of us have been called. We must be heard. 1020 00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:34,961 A "Holocaust" trial and no witness? 1021 00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:36,690 How can that be true? 1022 00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:39,120 There are all of our groups. 1023 00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:41,811 Deborah, we have to testify. We must testify. 1024 00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:47,168 On behalf of others. For people who are dead. 1025 00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:56,770 I make you a promise. 1026 00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,321 The voice of suffering will be heard. 1027 00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:08,122 I promise you that. 1028 00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:12,416 I've seen Irving all the time. 1029 00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:14,681 Yes, me too. Can't divert my eyes from him. 1030 00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:15,896 He is a kind of person who is amazing, isn't he? 1031 00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:17,729 Oh, I think this can also be a ritual. 1032 00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,565 A welcome, don't misunderstand me. 1033 00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:23,723 Deborah? Not for me, thank you. 1034 00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,929 You know, the Public Prosecutor once told me first... 1035 00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:29,160 ... that someone will be a more effective advocate ... 1036 00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:30,281 Can we talk privately? 1037 00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:31,456 After a few glasses of red wine. 1038 00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:35,371 And, of course, sandwiches. 1039 00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:36,646 Ah! 1040 00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:37,721 Bravo. 1041 00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:38,856 They are always in the closet. 1042 00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:40,376 I have, uh, cheese sandwich... 1043 00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:42,323 I just talked to a survivor. 1044 00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:45,011 Yes, well, that's what it looks like. 1045 00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:46,969 There are several people from them in the court. 1046 00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:50,689 Deborah, we won't discuss this again. 1047 00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:51,976 Why not? I've explained to you. 1048 00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:53,286 Wow, tell me again, Anthony. 1049 00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:55,522 Whatever you say, the survivors are not tried. 1050 00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:56,641 That is the end. 1051 00:56:56,720 --> 00:56:58,165 They confuse this problem. 1052 00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,056 Oh, so you can see the survivors on his face... 1053 00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:01,776 ... and you can tell him that he is not allowed to speak? 1054 00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:03,848 Can you do it? I can not. I can not do it. 1055 00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:06,136 Deborah, these people have gone through the weight of hell. 1056 00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:07,366 I understand that. 1057 00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:08,806 After years, 1058 00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:10,616 ... they have not been able to process the experience. 1059 00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:11,687 I also understand that. 1060 00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,004 But the trial, I'm afraid, is not therapy. 1061 00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:17,483 It's not my job to give emotional satisfaction... 1062 00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:18,891 ... for all groups of people 1063 00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:20,769 ... who can never forget the that happened to them. 1064 00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:24,529 Do you think they want to testify for themselves? 1065 00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:28,050 Not for themselves they want to testify. 1066 00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:32,043 They want to vote for those who don't succeed. 1067 00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:35,811 For their families, their friends. 1068 00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:41,649 Anthony, me... I promise that their voice will be heard. 1069 00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:42,926 I promise. 1070 00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:45,896 Wow, then you will be better back out there... 1071 00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:47,490 ... and violate your promise. 1072 00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:20,645 Professor Van Pelt. 1073 00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:24,525 First of all I say welcome to our country... 1074 00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:26,329 ... and convey how very happy I am... 1075 00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:28,442 ... read your book about Auschwitz. 1076 00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:32,881 You were moved when visiting the actual location? 1077 00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:35,406 More than moved. I'm scared. 1078 00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:37,562 This is a big responsibility. 1079 00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:39,256 Professor, do you agree... 1080 00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:41,851 ... is the task of historians... 1081 00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:44,764 ... to stay really not emotional? 1082 00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:47,843 The task of someone to not be emotional, 1083 00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:49,610 ... to be objective, 1084 00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:51,245 ... but everyone's obligation, in my opinion, 1085 00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:53,971 ... is to remain human in work. 1086 00:58:57,120 --> 00:58:58,856 Can you explain to court, I beg you, 1087 00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:02,601 ... why reference at the very beginning _ time about Auschwitz, 1088 00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:04,126 ... published by Russia... 1089 00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:06,680 ... after the camp disclosure in January 1945, 1090 00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:08,250 ... there are no references... 1091 00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,971 ... on the discovery of gas chambers? 1092 00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:15,125 Eh, I have to see documents that you refer to. 1093 00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:17,244 Wow, that's normal, I think. 1094 00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:19,804 This is fair, Your Majesty. 1095 00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:25,561 Your report quotes extensively 1096 00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:27,051 ... from first hand testimony... 1097 00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:29,043 ... a man named Tauber. 1098 00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:32,569 Yes. Uh, Tauber is a member Sonderkommando [= Special Command] 1099 00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:34,290 ... in Crematorium II. 1100 00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:35,845 He helps prisoners. 1101 00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:38,571 He was interrogated at the end of May 1945. 1102 00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:40,085 And, in that document, 1103 00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:44,445 ... does Tauber tell us about extermination procedures? 1104 00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:47,284 Si... Simulations, please? 1105 00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:53,844 What he describes is an underground crematorium. 1106 00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:58,601 The entrance through shirt opening room. 1107 00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:00,489 Detainees enter into a corridor, 1108 01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:02,324 ... and then through the door on the right... 1109 01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:04,482 ... into the gas chamber. 1110 01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:07,446 The door is closed tight... 1111 01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:11,684 ... with iron bars which are tightly bound. 1112 01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:14,605 Roof gas chambers... 1113 01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:18,287 ... supported by concrete columns and woven wire pillars. 1114 01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:19,600 Professor? 1115 01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:22,283 In your simulation, 1116 01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:25,204 ... is the roof in this big photo? 1117 01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:26,281 Eh, yes. 1118 01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,207 Is this the same roof? 1119 01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:30,607 Yes. 1120 01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:32,808 Uh, Tauber said the side of the pillar, 1121 01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:34,450 ... who rises through the roof, 1122 01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:38,047 ... is heavy wire mesh, like this. 1123 01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:41,960 Do you mean when saying that... 1124 01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:44,606 ... the pill goes up through the roof? 1125 01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:46,968 Up to the roof, is that so? 1126 01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:50,562 Yes, but it all appears out, uh, on the roof. 1127 01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:53,042 The pillar "appears out"? 1128 01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:55,056 The pillar penetrates through a hole in the roof... 1129 01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:57,526 ... and on the ground, which is set on the roof, 1130 01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:00,490 ... and then there is a kind, a small chimney on it. 1131 01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:02,040 What is the purpose, 1132 01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:03,366 ... talk of architecture? 1133 01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:05,323 Because this is a hollow pillar... 1134 01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:06,731 ... and this is a pillar... 1135 01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:08,689 ... where Zyklon-B crystals... 1136 01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:10,762 ... put in gas room. 1137 01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:15,091 Your Majesty, you can see the layout. 1138 01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:17,602 You can see the pillar with... 1139 01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:20,445 ... woven wire column next to it. 1140 01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:22,326 You have drawn... 1141 01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:25,400 ... the wire woven column, right? 1142 01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:29,163 Inside the sketch and on the computer? 1143 01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:31,402 One of my students did it, huh. 1144 01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:33,767 But the woven wire is additional, 1145 01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:35,844 ... it's not based on images... 1146 01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:37,450 ... and blueprint, right? 1147 01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:39,683 This is based on images made by people... 1148 01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:41,484 ... who really made the pillar. 1149 01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:43,562 Michael Kula. In the camp workshop. 1150 01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:44,641 And this hole... 1151 01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:46,889 ... on this roof, or hole, 1152 01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:50,043 ... how many columns of wire woven are there? Four? 1153 01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:53,050 Eh... One, two, three, four. 1154 01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:58,802 Professor Pelt, we waste our time, really, right? 1155 01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:03,043 You yourself must stand on that roof... 1156 01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:05,847 ... and look for the holes and not find it. 1157 01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:09,208 Our experts have stood on the roof and have not found it. 1158 01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:12,443 Your Majesty, there are no holes on the roof. 1159 01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:14,488 There is never a hole. 1160 01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:18,121 Therefore they cannot pour cyanide capsules through the roof. 1161 01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:19,440 You will appreciate, 1162 01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:22,683 ... if there are the holes in the roof, 1163 01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:24,896 ... the main proponent defense in this action, 1164 01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:27,321 ... they will find it now. They haven't found it yet! 1165 01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:29,921 And all the eyewitnesses where they depend... 1166 01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,401 ... because it's carried away as a liar. 1167 01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:40,042 Eh, Your Honor, now it's 3:56. 1168 01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:42,929 Except Mr. Rampton wants to convey... 1169 01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:44,331 ... something to repair damage... 1170 01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:45,845 Your Majesty, may I respond to this? 1171 01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:48,971 You can. But not until tomorrow. 1172 01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:51,051 The trial is closed. 1173 01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:54,496 Just walk. 1174 01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:55,816 Don't say anything. The trial takes an extraordinary turn... 1175 01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:58,571 Why did Rampton drop him? Why did he let it go? 1176 01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:00,176 Deborah, there are reporters everywhere. 1177 01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:02,248 Look straight ahead and keep going, I beg you. 1178 01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:04,402 Richard, can we ask your time, please? 1179 01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:06,323 - I don't have much time now. - This won't take long. 1180 01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:08,687 - We have clients who are not happy. - All right, yes. 1181 01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:10,811 Deborah, this is a disaster. 1182 01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:12,216 I'm sorry. I have to take it. I know. 1183 01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:13,287 I'm sorry. 1184 01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:14,736 Great setback for defense... 1185 01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:16,728 ... which is now under a heavy struggle. 1186 01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:19,281 Let's all calm down. Try not to panic. 1187 01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:21,886 Irving takes out the rabbit from his hat at 3:55 a.m. 1188 01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:23,883 He thinks it's smart. It's not smart. 1189 01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:25,296 No, it's not smart. It's an amateur drama. 1190 01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:26,536 This does not mean that it is not effective. 1191 01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:27,856 Richard will handle this tomorrow. 1192 01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:29,336 Look at this, look at this. Not that. 1193 01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:30,576 I have seen it. I've seen it. 1194 01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:32,648 I recognize that. See. See. Very clear. 1195 01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:35,849 Picture of The Olere. Aerial photography United States Air Force. 1196 01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:37,922 And that's it. I know these photos. 1197 01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:39,896 I don't need to see it. Hole in all parts, Deborah. 1198 01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:42,048 Look, look, look. The same shape, the same pattern. 1199 01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:45,203 One, two, three, four. 1200 01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:47,123 And do you know what Irving will say? 1201 01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:48,376 Irving will say, "That is not a hole. 1202 01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:49,736 " That is a shadow, they are faking, 1203 01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:50,896 "it's a disturbance on a negative thing, 1204 01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:52,490 " it's a tin of paint on the roof. " 1205 01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:54,289 Yes, and that's our job to prove the opposite. 1206 01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:56,176 But how will you do it? Anyway, it's too late. 1207 01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:57,964 It's already out there. This is in the hands of the press. 1208 01:03:58,040 --> 01:03:59,896 Oh, in the hands of the press? So what is in the hands of the press? 1209 01:03:59,920 --> 01:04:01,684 So Irving takes what he wants. 1210 01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:03,728 You know, he wants to get a headline , he has got it. 1211 01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:05,365 "There are no holes, means there is no" Holocaust "!" 1212 01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:06,960 He wants deceptive expressions, he has got it. 1213 01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:08,923 That will... it will spread like a virus. 1214 01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:10,001 Do you want tea? 1215 01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:11,736 - No, I don't want tea. - Just asking. 1216 01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:13,205 Don't you see what he does? 1217 01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:14,805 He made it honorable to say... 1218 01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:16,200 ... that there are two points of view. 1219 01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:18,205 People will see the news now... 1220 01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:19,576 ... and they will think, "Oh, alright. 1221 01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:21,736 " Some people think there are gas rooms at Auschwitz, 1222 01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,047 "... and, oh, this is interesting, some people don't." 1223 01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:26,696 Yes, but Deborah, you know why she chose Auschwitz in the first place. 1224 01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:28,736 Why did he choose Auschwitz? Because everyone hears it. 1225 01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:30,330 - Because of the emotional impact. - No. 1226 01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:32,482 Because... I don't know. What do you mean? 1227 01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:34,496 No. Because it was not built as an extermination camp. 1228 01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:35,726 It was built as a forced labor camp. 1229 01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:37,400 - I know that. - Then it is changed. 1230 01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:38,440 Yes, I know that. 1231 01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:39,806 That's why he followed it. 1232 01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:42,201 That is a breaker to a much larger subject. 1233 01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:44,760 Auschwitz is the core center of "Holocaust" beliefs, 1234 01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:47,366 ... so Auschwitz is the core the center of the "Holocaust" denial. 1235 01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:48,971 Think about this logically. 1236 01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:51,247 It makes no sense at all all that it says. 1237 01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:52,651 "There are no holes, no 'Holocaust'". 1238 01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:54,404 He grabbed a small fact... 1239 01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:56,416 ... and therefore it cannot be proven physically, he said, 1240 01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:58,296 "Oh, alright, then that throws everything into doubt. 1241 01:04:58,320 --> 01:04:59,496 " The Nazis did not commit any murder. 1242 01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:00,616 "They don't do murder at all." 1243 01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:02,768 I know that. I wrote the whole book about it. 1244 01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:03,976 - For God's sake... - I know that. 1245 01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:05,496 That is the same as as a trick of Hitler. 1246 01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:06,936 This is exactly the same thing. Really the same thing! 1247 01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:08,086 "Give them $ 1,000". 1248 01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:10,176 Tell me about that. I'm the one he did. 1249 01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:11,576 You know, if you can't find a piece of paper... 1250 01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:13,090 ... who says, you know, 1251 01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:14,525 "Please kill Jews," 1252 01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:16,896 ... that means Hitler never wanted they died in the first place. 1253 01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:18,570 "Hitler is the best friend of the Jews." 1254 01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:20,847 Irving said that! He really said it! 1255 01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:21,921 I have to go. 1256 01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:23,336 Wait a minute! I want to say something. 1257 01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:24,976 And for once I want to all of you listen to me. 1258 01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:26,001 I am a defendant... 1259 01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:27,081 ... and I know the rules. 1260 01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:28,764 The rule is the client instructs. 1261 01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:30,569 Wow, the client instructs. 1262 01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:34,367 Survivors boarded the pulpit. And I also went up to the pulpit. 1263 01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:36,361 Gentlemen. 1264 01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:40,404 Richard? Where will he go? Richard? 1265 01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:42,050 - Did you hear what I said? - Deborah! 1266 01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:45,530 Richard. Richard. 1267 01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:48,443 - Why did he leave? - Because he must prepare himself. 1268 01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:49,521 That's why he left. 1269 01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:50,965 He doesn't just appear in court. 1270 01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:53,122 He devotes his entire day, every minute of the day, 1271 01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:55,680 ... tight, for this case and nothing but. And that's the point! 1272 01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:59,048 No, what you didn't get, you ignored, 1273 01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:00,929 ... is that we know what happened at Auschwitz... 1274 01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:02,976 ... because there are people there who really watch it. 1275 01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:05,571 - Oh, Deborah, Deborah. - Yes, yes! 1276 01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:07,483 With their own eyes. 1277 01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:08,766 They are called victims. 1278 01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:10,490 Yes. And place it The survivors in their position... 1279 01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:12,403 ... and Irving will embarrass them. 1280 01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:14,927 Remember the Zundel trial. Remember Exodus trial. 1281 01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:16,445 They are torn apart. 1282 01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:19,570 Because survivors don't remember. 1283 01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:21,240 Not every detail. They forget something. 1284 01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:23,416 They say the door is on the left, when it's actually on the right, 1285 01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:24,680 ... and then, hit! Irving enters. 1286 01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:26,816 Do you understand? "They are liars, you can't believe what they say." 1287 01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:28,120 That's all, that's the technique. 1288 01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:30,482 Will roll up his sleeves and show tattoos... 1289 01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:32,324 ... to prove that, yes, that he was at Auschwitz. 1290 01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:34,096 Do you think Irving will respect them? 1291 01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:36,360 Do you want that? Survivors "Holocaust" ridiculed and insulted? 1292 01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:38,164 You must have lost your taste. 1293 01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:39,287 I will say, 1294 01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:42,443 ... "Mrs. Altman, how much money... 1295 01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:45,484 "... do you have to spend on that tattoo since 1945? " 1296 01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:52,400 You want more than that, right? 1297 01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:55,321 Do you think that helps? 1298 01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:26,842 So, now, Mr. Irving, 1299 01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:30,607 ... I'll ask you to explain why, 1300 01:08:31,440 --> 01:08:34,887 ... if, as you claim, no gas room at Auschwitz, 1301 01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:40,804 ... the grid taken in 1945 by the Polish government... 1302 01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:43,884 ... from the Corpse Room 1 in the Crematorium ll full of cyanide, 1303 01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:48,649 ... and why is the head of the camp, Karl Bischoff, 1304 01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:51,530 ... specifically refers to Room Corpse 1... 1305 01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:53,489 ... as Vergasungskeller, 1306 01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:55,611 "... with underground gas." 1307 01:08:57,400 --> 01:08:58,561 Wow? 1308 01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:02,725 I am willing to admit that they did find... 1309 01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:06,202 ... traces of cyanide in ventilator grilles. 1310 01:09:06,280 --> 01:09:07,930 - They found it? - Yes. 1311 01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:10,763 I will also acknowledge that it is indeed... 1312 01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:12,410 ... used as a gas chamber. 1313 01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:14,324 - Really? - Yes. 1314 01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:15,561 Good. So... 1315 01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:18,285 With what gas? 1316 01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:20,523 Wow, I think the proof is clear... 1317 01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:24,210 ... that the room was used by as a poison gas chamber... 1318 01:09:24,280 --> 01:09:26,282 ... to smoke corpses. 1319 01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:30,648 - Smothering corpses? - Yes. 1320 01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:32,768 What exactly do you say? 1321 01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:35,803 That's the use of the morgues. 1322 01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:38,167 In the morgue you put a corpse. 1323 01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:40,409 What is the proof that the room... 1324 01:09:40,480 --> 01:09:42,562 ... used to spray corpses with poison gas? 1325 01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:44,525 That's what the building is for. 1326 01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:46,523 Sorry, this is, uh, 1327 01:09:47,480 --> 01:09:48,970 ... seems the question is raw, 1328 01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:51,526 ... but what's the point giving poison gas to the corpse? 1329 01:09:52,280 --> 01:09:53,725 Because, Your Honor, 1330 01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:55,848 ... they come very infected... 1331 01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:58,691 ... with typhus germs that have killed them. 1332 01:09:58,760 --> 01:09:59,966 Really? 1333 01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:03,331 Do they suffer from typhus, Mr. Irving? Are they really affected by typhus? 1334 01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:05,129 Then please explain to me... 1335 01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:07,487 ... why do they need a gas-tight door... 1336 01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:10,006 ... with peep holes with double glass as thick as 8 mm... 1337 01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:12,811 ... and metal grill in it? 1338 01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:25,529 You will remember that time... 1339 01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:27,284 ... most of the Germans are under the weight... 1340 01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:28,725 ... command of bombers British Royal Air Force. 1341 01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:32,085 There are concerns about needs... 1342 01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:33,491 ... to build bomb attack shelters. 1343 01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:35,722 So now this is a place for air strike protection, right? 1344 01:10:36,040 --> 01:10:37,041 What? 1345 01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:40,841 The room is also for giving the corpses of dead people, 1346 01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:42,650 ... or is it a place protection from airstrikes? 1347 01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:44,643 Do I say "also" / "or"? 1348 01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:47,487 In the beginning of 1943? 1349 01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:49,685 Air strike shelter? 1350 01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:51,411 When do you know perfectly well that... 1351 01:10:51,480 --> 01:10:53,244 ... first bombing attacks near Auschwitz 1352 01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:55,846 ... until the end of 1944. 1353 01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:58,045 And this place... 1354 01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:01,803 ... then called "Protection from airstrikes," 1355 01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:02,881 ... is that for SS, 1356 01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:05,850 ... it's a very far place from the SS barracks, right? 1357 01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:07,765 Have you ever thought about that? 1358 01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:10,207 It's two and a half miles, right? 1359 01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:13,246 If there is a bomb attack, 1360 01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:15,243 ... they will all die before they get there. 1361 01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:20,083 But can you really see many people who are heavily armed... 1362 01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:22,561 ... ran two and a half to three miles... 1363 01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:24,961 ... from the SS barracks to the basement... 1364 01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:27,168 ... at the end of Birkenau? 1365 01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:29,251 You know... 1366 01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:32,723 ... I tried to understand it... 1367 01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:36,722 ... if there is this dual function, 1368 01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:38,643 ... so see if you can help me. 1369 01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:40,210 Now, if the bodies... 1370 01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:42,806 ... also gassed there, 1371 01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:44,450 ... then, as I understand it, 1372 01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:47,490 ... are they then sent to be burned? 1373 01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:48,641 Yes. 1374 01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:52,404 Is the point flowing gas on corpses... 1375 01:11:52,480 --> 01:11:54,403 ... which will be burned? 1376 01:11:58,360 --> 01:11:59,725 I'm not sure, say this... 1377 01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:01,723 ... from above my head, Mr. Rampton. 1378 01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:04,288 I'm not a "Holocaust" historian, 1379 01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:06,806 I am a Hitler historian. 1380 01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:10,089 Then why don't you close your mouth about the "Holocaust"? 1381 01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:13,485 The truth is, as usual, Mr. Irving, 1382 01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:14,721 ... you jump off the board... 1383 01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:16,689 ... spouting any garbage that comes to your head... 1384 01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:19,411 ... to avoid clear conclusions. 1385 01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:22,126 This isn't because you're a rotten historian. 1386 01:12:22,200 --> 01:12:25,761 That's because you you're also a crooked historian. 1387 01:12:40,008 --> 01:12:46,000 BBM: 2BFB0BCE LINE: HOKIBET99 1388 01:12:47,008 --> 01:12:53,000 Visit www.Hokibet99.cc Trusted Secure Online Gambling Agent 1389 01:13:10,400 --> 01:13:11,925 Please enter! 1390 01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:24,128 Hmm, forgive me. I have to call, 1391 01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:25,770 ... but I think it will be interesting... 1392 01:13:25,880 --> 01:13:27,405 ... to find out where you live. 1393 01:13:28,240 --> 01:13:31,369 - Is that all right? - Yes, of course. 1394 01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:33,256 - Please enter. - Thank you. thanks. 1395 01:13:33,280 --> 01:13:35,726 This is, uh, very messy. 1396 01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:37,848 Wow, that's not will bother me. 1397 01:13:38,480 --> 01:13:42,405 Let's see, hmm, 1995 Pommard les Epenots. 1398 01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:44,931 Eh, this is rather special, in my opinion. 1399 01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:46,411 You've been drinking before, remember? 1400 01:13:46,480 --> 01:13:48,050 Oh, uh, yeah. 1401 01:13:49,240 --> 01:13:51,846 Wow, there's a glass here. 1402 01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:54,089 Ah, shame. I prefer plastic cups. 1403 01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:56,445 However, you can't have everything. 1404 01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:02,408 I want to please yourself, will you? 1405 01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:04,326 Why are all bad people... 1406 01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:06,368 ... have all the good things in his life? 1407 01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:07,601 Like this? 1408 01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:11,923 You face a beautiful morning. Yes, I experienced it. I experienced it, right? 1409 01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:13,968 I tend to think is run my way. 1410 01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:15,485 Congratulations. Congratulations. 1411 01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:16,800 Mmm. 1412 01:14:17,440 --> 01:14:19,841 It pays off. What is that? 1413 01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:22,289 Your technique. Everything you do. 1414 01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:23,725 You never look into his eyes. 1415 01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:25,484 Ah! You notice it, right? 1416 01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:27,376 Wow, what do you think I've done... 1417 01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:28,970 In the past few weeks? 1418 01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:30,041 Please, uh... 1419 01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:32,403 - Sit down. - Why, thank you. 1420 01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:34,881 Yes, well, that's how I... 1421 01:14:35,440 --> 01:14:36,536 ... tell him I thought about him. 1422 01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:38,927 I don't see him. It goes under the skin. 1423 01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:48,201 I owe you an apology. 1424 01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:50,684 I can't think why. 1425 01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:53,081 - For Auschwitz. - Oh. 1426 01:14:55,080 --> 01:14:56,411 I thought you were rude. 1427 01:14:57,120 --> 01:14:58,724 I thought you were late. 1428 01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:00,607 But now I understand. 1429 01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:02,376 You just... you paced in the distance. 1430 01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:03,686 Yes. Yes, I have to do it. 1431 01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:06,001 Wow, I understand that starting today. 1432 01:15:06,080 --> 01:15:10,165 Yes, that is the location of crime. I have to go to that site. 1433 01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:12,971 You are preparing a case. You must be sure. 1434 01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:15,361 However impolite like you seem. 1435 01:15:15,440 --> 01:15:17,681 However heartless. 1436 01:15:20,440 --> 01:15:22,124 That's what I did. 1437 01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:27,327 I don't know what to expect. 1438 01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:31,010 First... It's concise. 1439 01:15:31,480 --> 01:15:33,403 I mean, I was before concise, believe it or not, 1440 01:15:33,480 --> 01:15:34,925 ... is from McDonald's. 1441 01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:41,764 How can Auschwitz become just another summary? 1442 01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:44,085 I regret that... 1443 01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:48,324 ... maybe you feel that is what happened to me. 1444 01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:54,682 It is very annoying to see clients in these difficulties. 1445 01:15:55,360 --> 01:15:57,124 We don't mean makes you unhappy. 1446 01:15:57,240 --> 01:15:58,571 I know that. 1447 01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:02,249 But I never trust anyone... 1448 01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:03,560 ... do something in my name... 1449 01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:05,404 ... since I was a child. 1450 01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:10,247 And all I have is my voice and my conscience... 1451 01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:13,244 ... and I have to listen to it. 1452 01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:14,481 - Your conscience? - Yes! 1453 01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:15,686 Yes. 1454 01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:19,247 That's a strange thing, a conscience. 1455 01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:21,766 The problem is, what feels best... 1456 01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:25,646 ... not necessarily the best. 1457 01:16:26,680 --> 01:16:28,523 I mean, of course, 1458 01:16:28,600 --> 01:16:30,170 ... stand up, look at the devil in his eyes, 1459 01:16:31,440 --> 01:16:32,965 ... tell him what you feel. 1460 01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:36,251 Why not? This is very satisfying. Look what happened. 1461 01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:39,564 And eliminate risk. 1462 01:16:41,240 --> 01:16:42,844 Not only for yourself. 1463 01:16:43,480 --> 01:16:44,480 Also for others. 1464 01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:47,444 For everyone. forever. 1465 01:16:48,120 --> 01:16:49,770 Or? 1466 01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:53,083 Or... You know "or". 1467 01:16:54,160 --> 01:16:55,685 Stay seated. 1468 01:16:57,480 --> 01:16:58,606 Shut your mouth. 1469 01:17:00,480 --> 01:17:01,845 Win. 1470 01:17:04,280 --> 01:17:06,647 Self-denial action. 1471 01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:18,404 Do you ever know how difficult it is... 1472 01:17:18,480 --> 01:17:21,404 ... give up your conscience to others? 1473 01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:27,564 These are all things I think I would never do. 1474 01:17:33,080 --> 01:17:34,650 OK. 1475 01:17:36,960 --> 01:17:41,249 I will handle my job through this, uh, fly-fishing, 1476 01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:44,448 ... drink wine... 1477 01:17:44,520 --> 01:17:45,521 ... Scotsman. 1478 01:18:01,440 --> 01:18:03,681 - There you are. - Hello. 1479 01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:06,371 - Morning - Here, let me move this. 1480 01:18:06,440 --> 01:18:07,601 Sit down. 1481 01:18:08,760 --> 01:18:10,125 What is that? 1482 01:18:10,440 --> 01:18:12,681 Ah. This is sausage. 1483 01:18:12,760 --> 01:18:13,761 This is traditional food. 1484 01:18:14,440 --> 01:18:15,441 Made of blood. 1485 01:18:15,520 --> 01:18:17,329 And you want to stay until the end of the trial? 1486 01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:19,641 Wow, you've been cheering since last night. 1487 01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:21,808 I've cheered because last night. 1488 01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:23,496 Shutting no will be easy but... 1489 01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:24,885 Oh, can I ask for sausages... 1490 01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:25,960 ... for this friend, please? 1491 01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:28,367 Ignore him. I want bagels, please. 1492 01:18:28,440 --> 01:18:31,125 Oh, and don't bake. Thank you. 1493 01:18:31,440 --> 01:18:33,602 Oh, I need this. This will be a tough day. 1494 01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:34,841 Proving intention. 1495 01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:38,046 Richard Evans gives us lots of places... 1496 01:18:38,120 --> 01:18:39,690 ... where Irving gets wrong facts. 1497 01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:42,445 But we have to prove he got it wrong deliberately. 1498 01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:44,849 He struggles for his life. 1499 01:18:44,920 --> 01:18:46,365 And remember, 1500 01:18:46,680 --> 01:18:48,330 ... he knows the law as we also know it. 1501 01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:51,643 Unless we can prove that is intentional Irving error, 1502 01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:52,926 ... we lose. 1503 01:18:53,680 --> 01:18:54,681 We lose. 1504 01:18:56,240 --> 01:18:57,287 Mr. Irving, 1505 01:18:58,520 --> 01:18:59,726 ... the defendant claimed that... 1506 01:18:59,800 --> 01:19:01,768 ... you deliberately falsify evidence... 1507 01:19:01,880 --> 01:19:03,882 ... according to your own political goals. 1508 01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:06,167 You have to overcome the accusation. 1509 01:19:06,360 --> 01:19:11,321 We have to deal with "keine Liquidierung". [= No Extermination] 1510 01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:15,369 Very good. We are searching first note November 30th. 1511 01:19:15,440 --> 01:19:16,680 Am I right? 1512 01:19:16,760 --> 01:19:17,886 Your Majesty, 1513 01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:19,689 ... if I can explain the context? 1514 01:19:19,760 --> 01:19:21,000 Please. 1515 01:19:22,120 --> 01:19:24,327 Heinrich Himmler, Chief of SS, keep records... 1516 01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:26,562 ... where he made notes from every phone call... 1517 01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:28,563 ... what he gave and received. 1518 01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:30,210 In 1941, 1519 01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:32,881 ... he called Heydrich from the Hitler bunker... 1520 01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:34,724 ... to give him instructions. 1521 01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:37,610 After the call, he wrote a few words. 1522 01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:41,321 "Jodentransport aus Berlin. 1523 01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:43,084 " Keine Liquidierung. 1524 01:19:43,160 --> 01:19:45,447 "Jodentransport wear Berlin. Keine Liquidierung." 1525 01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:46,851 That's a very clear meaning, 1526 01:19:46,920 --> 01:19:50,208 "Transport of Jews from Berlin." 1527 01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:52,170 "There is no annihilation." 1528 01:19:52,240 --> 01:19:55,608 "Transport of Jews," single sentence, 1529 01:19:56,280 --> 01:19:57,361 "... from Berlin." 1530 01:19:58,800 --> 01:20:00,131 In Hitler's War, 1531 01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:02,646 ... you wrote something completely different. 1532 01:20:03,160 --> 01:20:06,004 "At 01:30, Himmler is obliged... 1533 01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:09,649 "... calling from Hitler's bunker to Heydrich... 1534 01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:14,169 "... the explicit order that Jews will not be destroyed." 1535 01:20:14,240 --> 01:20:17,449 In other words, you translate that note... 1536 01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:20,002 ... so as to pretend that this command comes directly... 1537 01:20:20,080 --> 01:20:21,320 ... from Hitler, which actually isn't, 1538 01:20:21,400 --> 01:20:22,970 ... they didn't even meet that day, 1539 01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:24,927 ... and that it is applied... 1540 01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:28,402 ... not just one particular Jewish train, 1541 01:20:28,480 --> 01:20:31,324 ... but all Jews throughout Germany. 1542 01:20:31,400 --> 01:20:34,404 And in order to improve... 1543 01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:36,762 ... this wrong impression, 1544 01:20:36,840 --> 01:20:39,810 ... you omit the word "Berlin" at all. 1545 01:20:40,400 --> 01:20:42,050 So your demands have... 1546 01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:46,728 ... indisputable evidence Hitler tried to stop the extermination of the Jews, 1547 01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:51,131 ... as opposed to a certain Jewish train , it is wrong. 1548 01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:54,570 You know that later. You know now. That is wrong. 1549 01:20:57,200 --> 01:20:59,043 Of course, if you personally decide... 1550 01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:01,088 ... that it is... 1551 01:21:01,440 --> 01:21:04,011 ... sort of reason for errors made... 1552 01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:07,524 ... when someone reads a new document for the first time, 1553 01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:11,161 ... you will, uh, you will soon tell the court, right? 1554 01:21:11,240 --> 01:21:12,480 Of course I will. 1555 01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:17,603 I don't feel this is a reasonable error made. 1556 01:21:18,280 --> 01:21:19,850 I believe it's intentional. 1557 01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:21,081 Ha! 1558 01:21:27,280 --> 01:21:28,456 In Hitler's War, 1559 01:21:28,480 --> 01:21:30,687 ... you wrote something completely different. 1560 01:21:31,680 --> 01:21:34,411 "At 1:30 a.m., Himmler is obliged... 1561 01:21:35,160 --> 01:21:38,004 "... a call from Hitler's bunker to Heydrich... 1562 01:21:38,120 --> 01:21:42,808 "... explicit orders that Jews will not be destroyed." 1563 01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:46,202 What? Because I'm bored. 1564 01:21:47,240 --> 01:21:49,322 You don't even want to be a lawyer. 1565 01:21:52,760 --> 01:21:54,410 "Holocaust", "Holocaust". 1566 01:21:56,480 --> 01:21:58,448 There are other things. 1567 01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:02,251 At some point not everyone must release it? 1568 01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:05,683 This... This is an obsession. 1569 01:22:06,280 --> 01:22:07,850 For how many years? 1570 01:22:08,840 --> 01:22:11,411 Will they ever give up this complaint? 1571 01:22:11,480 --> 01:22:14,165 I think it's rather like a complaint. 1572 01:22:15,280 --> 01:22:16,376 I found that all... 1573 01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:18,448 ... the story of the "Holocaust" is really boring. 1574 01:22:20,000 --> 01:22:22,082 Jews continue to talk about the "Holocaust"... 1575 01:22:22,160 --> 01:22:23,889 ... because that is the only thing interesting thing... 1576 01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:26,367 ... which has happened to them in 3,000 years. 1577 01:22:26,440 --> 01:22:29,171 I am not interested in "Holocaust", 1578 01:22:29,240 --> 01:22:31,288 ... I don't know anyone who is interested. 1579 01:22:32,480 --> 01:22:33,656 And that is a quote... 1580 01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:35,409 ... from the speech you delivered... 1581 01:22:35,480 --> 01:22:38,450 ... at Best Western Hotels in Tampa... 1582 01:22:38,520 --> 01:22:42,047 ... dated July 25, 1998. 1583 01:22:42,360 --> 01:22:43,360 I remember talking, 1584 01:22:43,400 --> 01:22:45,243 ... hmm, I don't know what date it is. 1585 01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:49,889 You say, "I think 95% of people think... 1586 01:22:50,240 --> 01:22:52,322 "... finding "Holocaust" is endlessly boring, 1587 01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:54,084 "... but they dare not say it... 1588 01:22:54,160 --> 01:22:57,289 " because of a political error. " 1589 01:22:58,240 --> 01:23:00,481 Eh, Mr. Irving, next I want to refer you... 1590 01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:03,723 ... for your conversation at Clarendon Club... 1591 01:23:03,800 --> 01:23:05,404 ... what even if possible, 1592 01:23:05,480 --> 01:23:08,802 ... on September 19, 1992. 1593 01:23:09,240 --> 01:23:14,121 Eh, the transcript. Tab five, Your Honor, page 35. 1594 01:23:14,200 --> 01:23:15,247 Thank you. 1595 01:23:15,800 --> 01:23:17,976 But if there is one thing that makes my nose, 1596 01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:20,082 ... I have to admit it. 1597 01:23:20,400 --> 01:23:22,289 When I turn on my television... 1598 01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:24,601 ... and I saw one of them read our news. 1599 01:23:27,320 --> 01:23:31,006 Mr. Irving, who is meant by "them" and who is "us"? 1600 01:23:31,960 --> 01:23:33,007 Trevor McDonald. 1601 01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:34,526 McDonald's? 1602 01:23:34,600 --> 01:23:36,364 A news reader, Your Majesty. 1603 01:23:36,800 --> 01:23:38,450 A black news reader. 1604 01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:42,004 Wow, in fact, this is my usual speech I made. 1605 01:23:42,480 --> 01:23:43,686 I often say, 1606 01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:44,841 ... "In the good old days, 1607 01:23:44,920 --> 01:23:46,922 " The announcer will be wearing a dinner jacket. 1608 01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:48,600 "Now they have women news readers, 1609 01:23:48,640 --> 01:23:49,641 ... "and they have..." 1610 01:23:49,720 --> 01:23:51,449 That is only part of the speech in general. 1611 01:23:51,960 --> 01:23:55,407 Yes. "This is news and they read it to me." 1612 01:23:56,400 --> 01:23:58,416 If they can have their own news, which will be read to us, 1613 01:23:58,440 --> 01:23:59,960 ... I thought it would be very interesting. 1614 01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:02,211 But because of time, 1615 01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:04,487 ... I will be ready accept that BBC... 1616 01:24:04,600 --> 01:24:06,967 ... must have men jacket dinner... 1617 01:24:07,040 --> 01:24:08,536 ... read important news... 1618 01:24:08,560 --> 01:24:11,643 ... followed by women who read less important news... 1619 01:24:11,720 --> 01:24:14,056 ... followed by Trevor McDonald who gives us all the latest news... 1620 01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:15,570 ... robbery and drug raids. 1621 01:24:16,960 --> 01:24:19,850 "The rest is lost in laughing out loud and applause." 1622 01:24:21,200 --> 01:24:22,964 Are you not surprised by that? 1623 01:24:23,360 --> 01:24:24,805 Not at all. 1624 01:24:25,200 --> 01:24:26,281 This is a smart speech... 1625 01:24:26,360 --> 01:24:28,727 ... delivered after dinner to the audience at a private club. 1626 01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:30,529 You're talking to a racist group. 1627 01:24:30,600 --> 01:24:32,967 No, they are not racists. They perfect guests... 1628 01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:35,247 Ordinary people? Then why is there cheering? 1629 01:24:35,320 --> 01:24:37,368 Wow, obviously they like jokes. 1630 01:24:41,680 --> 01:24:43,842 Mr. Irving, I thought you might be suggested... 1631 01:24:43,920 --> 01:24:45,888 ... to look around in your own diary, 1632 01:24:46,400 --> 01:24:47,925 ... if you don't mind. 1633 01:24:48,160 --> 01:24:50,606 Thirty-eight, please, Mr. Irving, 38. 1634 01:24:50,680 --> 01:24:52,125 Tab 10... 1635 01:24:52,680 --> 01:24:55,081 ... from the K4 bundle. 1636 01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:01,930 "A quiet night at home. Jessica..." 1637 01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:03,001 Who is Jessica? 1638 01:25:04,360 --> 01:25:06,362 My little baby's child. 1639 01:25:06,440 --> 01:25:07,521 Yes. 1640 01:25:07,600 --> 01:25:10,365 He is nine months old at that time. 1641 01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:13,803 Nine months old in September 1994. 1642 01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:19,082 "Jessica grows up to be a good little girl. 1643 01:25:20,040 --> 01:25:23,123 " She sits very upright in a normal chair, 1644 01:25:23,200 --> 01:25:26,522 "Our regular products walk to the bank, I'm sure. 1645 01:25:27,080 --> 01:25:31,165 " In the journey, we sang "Binkety-bankety-bong"... 1646 01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:33,968 "He's a star in a poem... 1647 01:25:34,040 --> 01:25:37,044 " When children cross breed go away. " 1648 01:25:38,480 --> 01:25:42,041 And then you become racist. 1649 01:25:43,800 --> 01:25:45,723 " I'm baby Arya... 1650 01:25:46,240 --> 01:25:48,561 "Not Jewish or sectarian... 1651 01:25:49,200 --> 01:25:51,771 " I have no plans to get married... 1652 01:25:52,360 --> 01:25:54,328 "An ape or Rastafarian." 1653 01:25:56,480 --> 01:25:58,323 Racist, Mr. Irving? 1654 01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:00,720 Anti-Semitic, Mr. Irving? [Anti-Semitism = Hostility, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews; Regarded as a form of racism] 1655 01:26:00,720 --> 01:26:02,200 I don't think so. [Anti-Semitism = Hostility, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews; Considered as a form of racism] 1656 01:26:02,200 --> 01:26:06,488 Teaching your little child some kind of poison? [Anti-Semitism = Hostility, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews; Regarded as a form of racism] 1657 01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:08,767 Do you think the age of nine months can understand the words... 1658 01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:10,729 ... which is spoken in English or other languages? 1659 01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:12,723 Poor little child... 1660 01:26:12,800 --> 01:26:15,246 ... has been taught racist short songs... 1661 01:26:15,360 --> 01:26:17,886 ... by his father who was racist and heretical. 1662 01:26:18,640 --> 01:26:20,244 Have you ever read Edward Lear? 1663 01:26:20,360 --> 01:26:21,885 Hilaire Belloc? 1664 01:26:21,960 --> 01:26:25,248 They don't carry slander, Mr. Irving. You carry slander. 1665 01:26:26,480 --> 01:26:28,482 You are sued because you said that... 1666 01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:31,723 ... we have called you racist and an extremist. 1667 01:26:32,760 --> 01:26:34,091 Yes, 1668 01:26:35,880 --> 01:26:37,405 ... but I'm not racist. 1669 01:26:40,640 --> 01:26:41,846 Mr. Irving, 1670 01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:46,163 ... see the words on the page. 1671 01:26:51,760 --> 01:26:53,250 Good job, Richard. 1672 01:26:53,320 --> 01:26:55,561 That's it. Racism, anti-Semitism... 1673 01:26:55,640 --> 01:26:57,051 ... and that person is a "Holocaust" denier. 1674 01:26:57,120 --> 01:26:59,248 I mean, we always say it in a package. 1675 01:26:59,320 --> 01:27:02,244 We have symptoms, goals, and motives. 1676 01:27:02,360 --> 01:27:04,886 I really don't see what else they want. 1677 01:27:04,960 --> 01:27:06,405 What do you think, Anthony? 1678 01:27:06,480 --> 01:27:07,480 What do I think? 1679 01:27:07,520 --> 01:27:09,409 I thought it was the most boring morning... 1680 01:27:09,480 --> 01:27:10,561 ... we've been in court so far. 1681 01:27:10,640 --> 01:27:12,608 My Lord, you're happy to be the opposite. 1682 01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:14,887 Wow, that man is anti-Semitic and racist. 1683 01:27:15,000 --> 01:27:16,360 It's like there is dirt on your shoes. 1684 01:27:16,400 --> 01:27:18,209 You clean it. You didn't study it. 1685 01:27:18,280 --> 01:27:19,280 Thank you very much. 1686 01:27:19,320 --> 01:27:21,000 You know, I for a lifetime have learned it. 1687 01:27:22,160 --> 01:27:23,969 You can't accuse I of being racist. 1688 01:27:24,040 --> 01:27:25,166 Among my household staff... 1689 01:27:25,240 --> 01:27:27,242 ... I have a Barbados, a Punjabi, 1690 01:27:27,320 --> 01:27:29,084 ... Sri Lankan people, a Pakistani. 1691 01:27:29,160 --> 01:27:31,296 And I can tell you, they are all very interesting girls... 1692 01:27:31,320 --> 01:27:32,481 ... with very good breasts. 1693 01:27:32,840 --> 01:27:34,490 What? Can you say that again? 1694 01:27:36,760 --> 01:27:37,896 Do you know what I will miss? 1695 01:27:37,920 --> 01:27:39,809 - I will miss this lunch. - Ah. 1696 01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:41,405 - Me too, Richard. - I also. 1697 01:27:41,480 --> 01:27:42,480 Me too. 1698 01:27:42,520 --> 01:27:43,851 Very tasty fruit setup. 1699 01:27:43,920 --> 01:27:46,366 This is what I never expected. 1700 01:27:46,440 --> 01:27:47,851 My parents made me law school... 1701 01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:49,684 ... and the first case I got, 1702 01:27:49,760 --> 01:27:51,205 ... I feel I'm making a difference. 1703 01:27:51,280 --> 01:27:53,328 It's an amazing feeling. 1704 01:27:53,720 --> 01:27:55,085 I never expected it. 1705 01:27:56,200 --> 01:27:58,851 I feel exactly the same... Still. 1706 01:27:59,200 --> 01:28:01,806 - Congratulations. - Congratulations. 1707 01:28:01,920 --> 01:28:06,164 Well, who else wants this very good wine? 1708 01:28:06,240 --> 01:28:07,840 - Yes, please. - Oh no, not for me. 1709 01:28:08,520 --> 01:28:11,888 This trial has been going on for long and very expensive, 1710 01:28:11,960 --> 01:28:14,884 ... at a cost of around three to three million pounds or more... 1711 01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:17,008 ... and lasts for almost eight weeks. 1712 01:28:17,080 --> 01:28:18,491 As soon as the trial enters eighth week, 1713 01:28:18,560 --> 01:28:20,767 ... some say that raises the issue of freedom of speech. 1714 01:28:20,840 --> 01:28:22,256 Only two talks opposite are left... 1715 01:28:22,280 --> 01:28:24,123 ... before the judge, Mr. Justice Gray, 1716 01:28:24,200 --> 01:28:26,806 ... breaks for which we have been told will be at least four weeks... 1717 01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:28,405 ... to consider the decision. 1718 01:28:29,040 --> 01:28:31,964 Your Honor, during this trial... 1719 01:28:32,040 --> 01:28:34,168 ... we have heard from Professor Evans and others... 1720 01:28:34,240 --> 01:28:35,765 ... at least 25... 1721 01:28:35,840 --> 01:28:38,081 ... major historical forgery. 1722 01:28:39,120 --> 01:28:40,770 "Wow," said Mr. Irving, 1723 01:28:41,160 --> 01:28:43,640 "All historians make mistakes". 1724 01:28:44,280 --> 01:28:45,486 But there are differences... 1725 01:28:45,560 --> 01:28:47,369 ... between negligence, 1726 01:28:47,440 --> 01:28:49,249 ... which is random in its effect, 1727 01:28:49,520 --> 01:28:53,525 ... and far more intentions on one side. 1728 01:28:54,200 --> 01:28:56,487 All the little fiction Mr. Irving, 1729 01:28:56,600 --> 01:28:59,080 ... all the evidence is dubious, 1730 01:28:59,160 --> 01:29:00,844 ... all tend to be in the same direction, 1731 01:29:00,920 --> 01:29:04,766 ... justification from Adolf Hitler. 1732 01:29:05,080 --> 01:29:07,048 He, using analogies, like a waiter... 1733 01:29:07,120 --> 01:29:09,327 ... who always gives wrong changes. 1734 01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:11,047 If he is honest, 1735 01:29:11,120 --> 01:29:12,690 ... we can hope sometimes... 1736 01:29:12,760 --> 01:29:14,728 ... the error for pleases its customers, 1737 01:29:14,800 --> 01:29:16,484 ... sometimes for himself. 1738 01:29:16,760 --> 01:29:20,924 But Mr. Irving is dishonest servant. 1739 01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:24,286 All errors function for the benefit. 1740 01:29:25,480 --> 01:29:28,450 How far, if at all, anti-Semitism Mr. Irving... 1741 01:29:28,520 --> 01:29:31,364 ... is because of 's Hitler apology, 1742 01:29:31,440 --> 01:29:34,728 ... or vice versa, it doesn't matter. 1743 01:29:35,440 --> 01:29:38,728 Is it taken together or individually... 1744 01:29:38,800 --> 01:29:40,564 ... it's clear that it has directed it... 1745 01:29:40,640 --> 01:29:41,880 ... proclaiming its reputation... 1746 01:29:41,960 --> 01:29:44,281 ... as a critical historian... 1747 01:29:44,520 --> 01:29:48,241 ... for the sake of a false rehabilitation against Adolf Hitler... 1748 01:29:48,560 --> 01:29:49,891 ... and spread... 1749 01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:54,010 ... anti-Semitic virus propaganda. 1750 01:29:55,640 --> 01:29:57,404 Yes, this is the question... 1751 01:29:57,480 --> 01:30:00,086 ... I have to ask you, Mr. Rampton. 1752 01:30:00,160 --> 01:30:01,446 Yes, of course. Please, Your Honor. 1753 01:30:02,240 --> 01:30:03,765 My question is this, 1754 01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:07,007 ... if someone is anti-Semitic, 1755 01:30:07,080 --> 01:30:09,560 ... anti-Semitic and extremist, 1756 01:30:09,960 --> 01:30:11,200 ... he is fully capable... 1757 01:30:11,280 --> 01:30:15,444 ... being anti-Semitic honest, correct? 1758 01:30:16,720 --> 01:30:19,405 He holds that view and expresses that view... 1759 01:30:19,480 --> 01:30:21,721 ... because that is is indeed his view? 1760 01:30:23,200 --> 01:30:24,565 Wow, yeah. 1761 01:30:25,000 --> 01:30:28,607 And in my opinion, if the direction is there, 1762 01:30:29,880 --> 01:30:31,769 ... that anti-Semitism... 1763 01:30:31,840 --> 01:30:33,922 ... is completely separate charges... 1764 01:30:34,160 --> 01:30:36,766 ... and has a small axis valuable in your broader demands... 1765 01:30:36,840 --> 01:30:38,888 ... that it has manipulated the data? 1766 01:30:39,720 --> 01:30:41,245 No, no, Your Honor. No. 1767 01:30:41,320 --> 01:30:43,243 Overall defense effort... 1768 01:30:43,320 --> 01:30:45,243 ... has proven that both are connected. 1769 01:30:45,720 --> 01:30:48,087 But he might believe what he said. 1770 01:30:49,040 --> 01:30:50,040 That is the point. 1771 01:30:50,080 --> 01:30:51,889 That's why it's so important. 1772 01:30:53,400 --> 01:30:56,802 Your Majesty, if we know that Mr. Irving is anti-Semitic, 1773 01:30:56,880 --> 01:30:59,360 ... and if we know that there is no historical justification... 1774 01:30:59,440 --> 01:31:00,771 ... against "Holocaust" refusal, 1775 01:31:00,840 --> 01:31:04,287 ... then it's certain there's no big stretch... 1776 01:31:04,360 --> 01:31:06,203 ... to find out that these two things are connected. 1777 01:31:13,880 --> 01:31:17,202 Yes. thanks. 1778 01:31:18,240 --> 01:31:19,571 Continue. 1779 01:31:23,640 --> 01:31:25,240 What just happened? 1780 01:31:28,400 --> 01:31:31,210 Anthony, what just happened? 1781 01:31:37,008 --> 01:31:41,000 A T L A N T A ~ • [Two Days Later] • ~ 1782 01:31:58,400 --> 01:32:00,767 Wow? How is that? 1783 01:32:03,600 --> 01:32:05,762 I will tell you what happened in the end. 1784 01:32:07,360 --> 01:32:10,250 We have concluded. Irving has concluded. 1785 01:32:14,120 --> 01:32:15,121 And? 1786 01:32:15,200 --> 01:32:16,536 And everyone keeps saying, it's all great, 1787 01:32:16,560 --> 01:32:19,928 ... everything will be fine. And then suddenly this judge, 1788 01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:23,049 ... this extraordinary character from Masterpiece Theater... 1789 01:32:23,120 --> 01:32:25,168 Oh, I like Masterpiece Theater. - I know. 1790 01:32:25,240 --> 01:32:27,368 Anyway, at the last minute, he looked up and he said, 1791 01:32:27,440 --> 01:32:30,887 "Wow, you know, maybe Irving really believes that. 1792 01:32:30,960 --> 01:32:33,566 " He's an anti-Semitic and he believes that. 1793 01:32:33,640 --> 01:32:35,051 "You can't accuse someone is lying... 1794 01:32:35,120 --> 01:32:37,566 "... if they really believe everything they say. " 1795 01:32:38,480 --> 01:32:39,845 - That's crazy. - That's crazy. 1796 01:32:39,920 --> 01:32:41,968 And that's when I thought, " I've been deceived. " I looked at this judge for eight weeks... 1797 01:32:42,320 --> 01:32:44,004 ... and I thought I saw wisdom, 1798 01:32:44,120 --> 01:32:45,456 ... but maybe I just saw prejudice. 1799 01:32:45,480 --> 01:32:48,165 Wow, what can you do ? 1800 01:32:52,160 --> 01:32:54,003 I'm just waiting. Just waiting. 1801 01:32:54,480 --> 01:32:57,165 And do they tell you the results in advance? 1802 01:33:06,840 --> 01:33:09,002 No. But my lawyer said it. 1803 01:33:09,080 --> 01:33:11,128 1804 01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:14,205 What have they said and they can't tell you? Are you kidding? 1805 01:33:14,280 --> 01:33:16,931 Yes. They get a decision within 24 hours in advance. 1806 01:33:17,000 --> 01:33:19,128 Up to the minute. 09:00 a day before, 1807 01:33:19,200 --> 01:33:21,282 ... to give them time to prepare responses. 1808 01:33:21,360 --> 01:33:22,441 And what's worse, 1809 01:33:22,520 --> 01:33:24,682 ... yes, Irving also got it. 1810 01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:26,723 Why? Because he is his own lawyer. 1811 01:33:26,800 --> 01:33:28,564 So he is allowed, but I don't. 1812 01:33:31,000 --> 01:33:33,256 I think this court brings peace... 1813 01:33:33,280 --> 01:33:35,681 ... through community 20th century historians. 1814 01:33:36,360 --> 01:33:37,536 Which historian doesn't think, 1815 01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:39,927 "Will my job survive under this kind of supervision?" 1816 01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:42,924 Show me historians who don't break cold sweat... 1817 01:33:43,000 --> 01:33:45,128 ... in the mind undergoing the same treatment . 1818 01:33:51,880 --> 01:33:53,530 When people are fluent say, 1819 01:33:53,840 --> 01:33:55,808 "Oh, if I've ever been in Germany, 1820 01:33:55,880 --> 01:33:57,644 "... I will never collaborate, 1821 01:33:57,720 --> 01:33:58,881 "I have refused," 1822 01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:01,889 I just want to laugh. 1823 01:34:02,600 --> 01:34:04,648 Do you know... 1824 01:34:04,720 --> 01:34:07,690 ... how dangerous and difficult is that? 1825 01:34:08,920 --> 01:34:13,005 Facing the enemy is difficult, 1826 01:34:13,080 --> 01:34:16,527 ... uncertain, and tiring. 1827 01:34:19,160 --> 01:34:20,889 But they have to do it. 1828 01:34:22,920 --> 01:34:26,402 Just behind the scenes that is called heroic. 1829 01:34:28,160 --> 01:34:30,640 At that time you're just scared. 1830 01:34:33,920 --> 01:34:36,446 Fear of how things will change. 1831 01:34:45,120 --> 01:34:46,406 Deborah Lipstadt. 1832 01:34:46,880 --> 01:34:48,325 Ah, good. You are there. 1833 01:34:48,520 --> 01:34:49,681 Anthony. 1834 01:34:49,760 --> 01:34:52,491 Yes. Just say we have been told to accept the verdict on Tuesday. 1835 01:34:52,560 --> 01:34:55,370 Tuesday? Are you sure? 1836 01:34:55,440 --> 01:34:57,960 You know, I think they won't say it unless it's true. 1837 01:34:58,040 --> 01:34:59,256 I wonder if we can... 1838 01:34:59,280 --> 01:35:01,044 ... make some sort of rule. 1839 01:35:01,120 --> 01:35:03,536 Like a telephone and ask, "How is the weather?" And you answer, "Good". 1840 01:35:03,560 --> 01:35:05,085 Meaning... Yes, yes, I understand that. 1841 01:35:05,160 --> 01:35:07,970 Or you say bad weather and that means... 1842 01:35:08,040 --> 01:35:09,769 Only, of course, I will be fired. 1843 01:35:09,840 --> 01:35:11,960 I have never been allowed to practice law in England again. 1844 01:35:12,440 --> 01:35:15,330 Oh, wow, there will be an upside down. 1845 01:35:15,880 --> 01:35:16,881 Ah. 1846 01:35:51,840 --> 01:35:53,126 Yes? 1847 01:35:54,880 --> 01:35:56,211 That one. 1848 01:36:00,080 --> 01:36:01,286 Deborah. 1849 01:36:03,680 --> 01:36:04,680 Wow? 1850 01:36:10,008 --> 01:36:14,188 ~ • SELASA, April 11, 2000 • ~ [Judge / Judgment] 1851 01:36:14,280 --> 01:36:16,328 Set aside the path, please. Passing through. 1852 01:36:16,400 --> 01:36:18,129 Guilty! Unclean Jews! 1853 01:36:18,640 --> 01:36:20,165 Jewish garbage! 1854 01:36:34,480 --> 01:36:35,481 Shameless! 1855 01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:43,771 You're embarrassing, Nazi lovers! 1856 01:36:46,800 --> 01:36:50,805 David! David! David! 1857 01:37:05,440 --> 01:37:06,441 Oh 1858 01:37:11,600 --> 01:37:13,125 - Your Majesty. - Hmm? 1859 01:37:25,440 --> 01:37:27,681 Thank you, Jay. One per person. thanks. 1860 01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:28,921 Woman first, in my opinion. 1861 01:37:29,000 --> 01:37:30,365 Here it is. thanks. 1862 01:37:30,440 --> 01:37:32,044 One per person. Thank you. I will do it. 1863 01:37:32,120 --> 01:37:35,169 Thick document 334-page, 1864 01:37:35,240 --> 01:37:37,846 ... not yet revealed final decision, 1865 01:37:37,920 --> 01:37:39,922 ... intentionally even distributed. 1866 01:37:40,040 --> 01:37:42,168 It's hard for to say on which side... 1867 01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:44,402 ... Mr.'s decision Justice Gray will land. 1868 01:37:44,480 --> 01:37:46,776 This praises Irving 's skills as a military historian, 1869 01:37:46,800 --> 01:37:49,371 ... while at the same time draw attention to weakness... 1870 01:37:49,440 --> 01:37:51,249 ... in some reasoning. 1871 01:38:06,400 --> 01:38:07,890 The trial is opened. 1872 01:38:22,240 --> 01:38:25,562 David Irving v. Penguin Books Limited... 1873 01:38:25,640 --> 01:38:27,369 ... and Deborah Lipstadt. 1874 01:38:29,480 --> 01:38:31,642 I will read my decision. 1875 01:38:42,840 --> 01:38:45,207 It seems to me that is the right one... 1876 01:38:45,280 --> 01:38:47,851 ... and the inevitable conclusion should be... 1877 01:38:47,920 --> 01:38:50,924 ... that falsification historical record... 1878 01:38:51,000 --> 01:38:55,688 ... has been intentional and that Irving motivated desire to present events... 1879 01:38:55,760 --> 01:38:59,287 ... consistently with his own ideological beliefs, 1880 01:38:59,360 --> 01:39:01,886 ... even if it involves irregularities... 1881 01:39:01,960 --> 01:39:05,089 ... and manipulation of historical evidence. 1882 01:39:06,360 --> 01:39:08,010 As a result, therefore, 1883 01:39:08,080 --> 01:39:11,687 ... defense of basic truth, has succeeded. 1884 01:39:12,120 --> 01:39:15,329 The court accepts the basic truth of the defendant. 1885 01:39:16,520 --> 01:39:18,010 The trial is closed. 1886 01:39:26,720 --> 01:39:29,326 - I can't believe that! - It is true. 1887 01:39:29,440 --> 01:39:30,885 Good work. Good work. 1888 01:39:30,960 --> 01:39:32,530 Good work. 1889 01:39:35,520 --> 01:39:36,681 Mazel Tov! [= Good Luck! ] 1890 01:39:36,760 --> 01:39:38,091 You have become brilliant. Mazel Tov! [= Congratulations, Good Luck] 1891 01:39:38,200 --> 01:39:39,486 You don't let me say anything. 1892 01:39:39,560 --> 01:39:40,766 I didn't say anything. 1893 01:39:40,880 --> 01:39:42,325 Wow, not so. Think about how I feel. 1894 01:39:42,400 --> 01:39:44,482 That's not true. That's not true, Deborah. 1895 01:39:44,560 --> 01:39:45,641 That's your book. 1896 01:39:45,720 --> 01:39:47,245 Your book picks up in every aspect. 1897 01:39:47,320 --> 01:39:48,970 Every aspect. Every detail. 1898 01:39:49,040 --> 01:39:50,883 We maintain it. But that's the book. 1899 01:39:50,960 --> 01:39:52,536 - I... -... know, I know, I know... 1900 01:39:53,920 --> 01:39:56,536 - Thank you for all your hard work. - Thank you, you're welcome. 1901 01:39:56,560 --> 01:39:57,846 It feels like a dream job. 1902 01:39:57,920 --> 01:40:00,844 Good results. Good results. 1903 01:40:01,960 --> 01:40:04,611 Laura. Genius! 1904 01:40:06,600 --> 01:40:08,336 This has been referred to as one of the slanderous courts... 1905 01:40:08,360 --> 01:40:10,203 ... the most devastating in history. 1906 01:40:10,280 --> 01:40:11,656 Judge calls Mr. Irving... 1907 01:40:11,680 --> 01:40:13,409 ... anti-Semitic, racist, 1908 01:40:13,480 --> 01:40:15,403 ... and history bending. 1909 01:40:15,880 --> 01:40:18,042 Can you tell us how do you feel now? 1910 01:40:18,120 --> 01:40:20,088 I feel so extraordinary. This is a great day. 1911 01:40:20,200 --> 01:40:21,440 A great day for everyone. 1912 01:40:21,520 --> 01:40:24,320 Deborah. Deborah, how do you feel about today's decision? 1913 01:40:25,680 --> 01:40:27,569 Now you can talk. 1914 01:40:27,640 --> 01:40:28,971 Great. 1915 01:40:29,040 --> 01:40:30,644 Can you expand it completely? 1916 01:40:30,760 --> 01:40:34,685 Come on. Come on... Come to the press conference! 1917 01:40:35,160 --> 01:40:37,640 We see this as an issue of freedom of speech. 1918 01:40:37,760 --> 01:40:39,171 Penguin defends D.H. Lawrence. 1919 01:40:39,240 --> 01:40:40,605 We defend Salman Rushdie. 1920 01:40:40,720 --> 01:40:41,801 That is inconceivable... 1921 01:40:41,880 --> 01:40:43,370 ... we will not defend Deborah Lipstadt. 1922 01:40:43,440 --> 01:40:44,771 He is here. He is here. 1923 01:40:49,160 --> 01:40:52,528 Miss Lipstadt? Miss Lipstadt? 1924 01:40:52,600 --> 01:40:53,806 Deborah? 1925 01:40:56,120 --> 01:40:58,088 Can I ask, do you have any regrets... 1926 01:40:58,160 --> 01:40:59,571 ... regarding this case? 1927 01:40:59,640 --> 01:41:01,280 I don't know how says it often enough, 1928 01:41:01,320 --> 01:41:02,810 ... I didn't bring this case. 1929 01:41:02,880 --> 01:41:04,564 Mr. Irving who did it. 1930 01:41:04,640 --> 01:41:06,642 Although I'm not sure that he realized... 1931 01:41:06,720 --> 01:41:09,200 ... when he approves the trial by a single judge, 1932 01:41:09,280 --> 01:41:10,760 ... that means written justice. 1933 01:41:10,800 --> 01:41:14,088 This trial will against him forever. 1934 01:41:14,640 --> 01:41:16,856 Now, some people say that the results of this trial... 1935 01:41:16,880 --> 01:41:18,803 ... will threaten freedom of speech. 1936 01:41:18,880 --> 01:41:20,370 I don't accept that. 1937 01:41:20,440 --> 01:41:22,442 I don't attack freedom of speech. 1938 01:41:22,520 --> 01:41:25,091 On the other hand, I've maintained it... 1939 01:41:25,160 --> 01:41:27,083 ... against someone who wants to abuse it. 1940 01:41:27,480 --> 01:41:30,484 Freedom of speech means you can say whatever you want. 1941 01:41:30,560 --> 01:41:32,562 What you can't do is lying, 1942 01:41:32,640 --> 01:41:35,450 ... and then hope is not responsible for that. 1943 01:41:35,760 --> 01:41:38,001 Not all opinions are equal... 1944 01:41:38,680 --> 01:41:39,886 ... and some things happen, 1945 01:41:40,720 --> 01:41:42,290 ... like we said they did. 1946 01:41:42,640 --> 01:41:43,721 Slavery occurs. 1947 01:41:43,800 --> 01:41:45,689 The Black Death has already happened. 1948 01:41:46,040 --> 01:41:47,371 The earth is round. 1949 01:41:47,440 --> 01:41:50,284 The ice cover melts and Elvis isn't alive. 1950 01:41:50,520 --> 01:41:52,966 Miss Lipstadt? 1951 01:41:53,320 --> 01:41:55,641 You direct yourself with dignity... 1952 01:41:55,720 --> 01:41:56,767 ... during the trial. 1953 01:41:56,880 --> 01:41:59,360 Thank you. Uh, but I know what that means. 1954 01:41:59,440 --> 01:42:02,011 That's the rule in England for "I have to shut up", 1955 01:42:02,080 --> 01:42:04,731 ... and I don't promise to shut up in the future. 1956 01:42:05,360 --> 01:42:07,176 Miss Lipstadt, how sure are you... 1957 01:42:07,200 --> 01:42:09,851 ... that this trial will run with good results for you? 1958 01:42:10,400 --> 01:42:14,530 Hmm, wow, before I came to London, 1959 01:42:14,600 --> 01:42:17,649 ... I'm definitely not sure that the court... 1960 01:42:17,720 --> 01:42:20,564 ... is a good place for investigating the truth of history. 1961 01:42:21,720 --> 01:42:22,721 But... 1962 01:42:23,560 --> 01:42:27,645 ... I underestimate the value of a team. 1963 01:42:28,320 --> 01:42:29,924 Actual teamwork. 1964 01:42:30,000 --> 01:42:32,924 And apparently is not a bad place. 1965 01:42:33,800 --> 01:42:37,327 As long as you have a great lawyer with great enthusiasm. 1966 01:42:37,400 --> 01:42:41,564 And, uh, my God, do I have a great lawyer. 1967 01:42:46,240 --> 01:42:48,016 Miss Lipstadt, if you can say... 1968 01:42:48,040 --> 01:42:50,407 ... something now for David Irving, 1969 01:42:50,480 --> 01:42:51,481 ... what will you say? 1970 01:42:52,600 --> 01:42:55,171 I will not say something to David Irving. 1971 01:42:55,240 --> 01:42:58,642 I will say something to the survivors and victims who have been killed. 1972 01:42:58,720 --> 01:43:00,370 And I will say... 1973 01:43:03,120 --> 01:43:04,770 "You always remember us. 1974 01:43:05,440 --> 01:43:08,523 "Your voice of suffering is heard." 1975 01:43:18,920 --> 01:43:20,922 You really are quite good at this. 1976 01:43:24,760 --> 01:43:25,966 Thank you. 1977 01:43:30,280 --> 01:43:33,204 I think if you see the court up close, 1978 01:43:33,280 --> 01:43:36,124 ... you will see there are all kinds of things that support me. 1979 01:43:36,720 --> 01:43:38,802 You're not seriously suggesting... 1980 01:43:38,880 --> 01:43:41,087 ... that this trial supports you? 1981 01:43:41,160 --> 01:43:44,130 Wow, obviously I run ring round defense. 1982 01:43:44,200 --> 01:43:47,249 I just regret not using a sufficient caliber hammer... 1983 01:43:47,320 --> 01:43:50,051 ... to hit my case to the thick skull of a judge. 1984 01:43:50,160 --> 01:43:52,970 Mr. Irving, what do people want to know... 1985 01:43:53,080 --> 01:43:55,924 ... is what, on the basis of this _ trial, 1986 01:43:56,040 --> 01:43:59,442 ... you will stop deny the "Holocaust". 1987 01:44:02,440 --> 01:44:05,523 me? Stop? No, yeah. 1988 01:44:05,960 --> 01:44:07,576 Despite the fact that... 1989 01:44:07,600 --> 01:44:09,682 ... the judge said, ... "I seem..." 1990 01:44:09,760 --> 01:44:11,808 Hello? Deborah? 1991 01:44:12,240 --> 01:44:13,810 It seems he said that he won. 1992 01:44:13,880 --> 01:44:17,043 I know. He has become accustomed to being a denier of the "Holocaust," 1993 01:44:17,120 --> 01:44:18,256 ... and now he becomes a denial of court decisions. 1994 01:44:18,280 --> 01:44:19,936 The fact that he doesn't even dare to appear... 1995 01:44:19,960 --> 01:44:21,976 ... tell all of you what you need is known about Miss Lipstadt. 1996 01:44:22,000 --> 01:44:23,161 Let's turn it off. 1997 01:44:23,240 --> 01:44:24,924 I don't think the Brooklyn accent... 1998 01:44:25,000 --> 01:44:26,650 ... will please in court. 1999 01:44:26,920 --> 01:44:28,920 Borough / area / Queens sector. 2000 01:44:28,920 --> 01:44:32,524 It's borough / region / sector of Queens. 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